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Iím Still Not Going Back to the Catholic Church: Pope Francis only confirms my decision to leave
TIME ^ | 09/30/2013 | Rod Dreher

Posted on 09/30/2013 9:37:55 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

Edited on 09/30/2013 9:38:32 AM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]

Itís not hard to understand why people are so excited about Pope Francis. Since his sensational interview last week, many have said that with his personal warmth and determination to put doctrine in the background, Francis is just the man to bring a lot of fallen-away Catholics back into the church.


(Excerpt) Read more at ideas.time.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: catholic; popefrancis

1 posted on 09/30/2013 9:37:55 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

I doubt that this journo-list ever accepted the teachings of the Church, so why does he talk about going back?


2 posted on 09/30/2013 9:39:24 AM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: SeekAndFind
Dear Rod Dreher:

Don't let the exit door hit ya where the good Lord split ya.

Somehow, I think the Catholic Church can survive without you.

3 posted on 09/30/2013 9:40:44 AM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: SampleMan; Mrs. Don-o
I doubt that this journo-list ever accepted the teachings of the Church, so why does he talk about going back?

Right there's what an ignorant comment looks like.

4 posted on 09/30/2013 9:41:09 AM PDT by don-o (He will not share His glory and He will NOT be mocked! Blessed be the name of the Lord forever!)
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To: Vigilanteman

I don’t think he is wishing for the demise of the Catholic Church.


5 posted on 09/30/2013 9:41:24 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SampleMan

I’m there only for the teachings of the Church (and salvation, of course), not the current pope, not the current liturgy.


6 posted on 09/30/2013 9:43:41 AM PDT by steve86 (Some things aren't really true but you wouldn't be half surprised if they were.)
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To: SampleMan

Uh, yea..........I think that pretty much goes without saying after reading the article.


7 posted on 09/30/2013 9:46:17 AM PDT by Rich21IE
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To: SeekAndFind

I can’t stand this guy. He’s such a windbag.


8 posted on 09/30/2013 9:48:24 AM PDT by CaptainK (...please make it stop. Shake a can of pennies at it.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Did anyone read the actual article? He’s basically complaining that the Catholic churches he has attended preach nothing but “God is love” with no emphasis on sin and repentance. He said that the subject of one of the lenten homilies he heard was that “Lent is time in which we should love ourselves more”. Sounds to me like he has much to complain about.


9 posted on 09/30/2013 9:54:47 AM PDT by Sans-Culotte ( Pray for Obama- Psalm 109:8)
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To: SeekAndFind

I agree with Mr. Dreher. Many parishes have reduced Catholicism to feel-good drivel.

Too bad Mr. Dreher didn’t attend a Traditional Latin Mass parish. There, he would have found what he needs.


10 posted on 09/30/2013 10:04:56 AM PDT by paterfamilias
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To: SampleMan
I doubt that this journo-list ever accepted the teachings of the Church, so why does he talk about going back?

Rod Dreher is actually a religious person. He was Catholic;and, he made a difficult decision some years ago to leave the Roman Catholic Church and, I believe, he joined the Greek Orthodox Church. He is a believer; but, he seems to have some problems with the direction of the Church. I really, really doubt that Rod Dreher is a "journo-list". His religiosity would make him anathema to the lefty "journo-listers".

He is searching for his place of comfort to worship God and Jesus. I will give him the benefit of the doubt, as one's religious needs are so very personal. But, he is a believer in God and Christ.

11 posted on 09/30/2013 10:15:00 AM PDT by LibertarianLiz
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To: steve86

I agree. I don’t go to Mass or not go to Mass because of who the Pope is.


12 posted on 09/30/2013 10:17:29 AM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: SeekAndFind

It’s not just catholicism.

For the most part, the church in this county is dead.

Little more than a social club that meets between one and three times a week.

The rest of the week, nobody stays in touch, nobody helps anybody in need. Oh, some of them might visit the prisons or soup kitchens, but, by and large, the church is dead.

There are a few pockets of genuine church life here and there, but they are far and few between.


13 posted on 09/30/2013 10:18:43 AM PDT by Westbrook (Children do not divide your love, they multiply it.)
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To: Sans-Culotte
In all my years, I have never heard a homily during Lent with a ‘love thyself more’ theme. Never.

Since Pope Francis became Pope, I’m hearing more talk and higher volume talk on sin; we are all sinners; this is exactly why we need the saving Grace of God through His Son Jesus Christ.

Following the teaching of the Catholic Church is itself repentance. Being a devout Catholic is not easy, at least not over the long term.

14 posted on 09/30/2013 10:19:48 AM PDT by MichaelCorleone (Jesus Christ is not a religion. He's the Truth.)
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To: SeekAndFind
Thanks, Rod.

I'm glad someone as important as you are was nice enough to announce this to all of us little people, so we wouldn't be ignorant of your epoch-making musings on theology.

Please keep us updated.

15 posted on 09/30/2013 10:23:13 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: SeekAndFind

Gee Rod...that really tears me up but I’m sure I’ll get over it.


16 posted on 09/30/2013 10:26:39 AM PDT by pgkdan
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To: SeekAndFind

My mom does this. She’ll get mad at “the church” for this or that. She’ll say “I’m done.”

It’s always bothered me. What gives her the right to think any of it is about her? Being a Catholic is just as much a part of who I am as being Italian, or Polish, or American, or a girl. I was born that way, and I’ll die that way, regardless of what happens in the short time I am around.

I named my little guy after Pope John Paul, but I love Pope Francis, just I loved Pope Benedict. I wish people would be a little less judgemental and just see him for the simple and loving man he is.


17 posted on 09/30/2013 10:29:35 AM PDT by ToastedHead
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To: SampleMan
Rod Dreher is a serious Christian I have known for years. Once a convert to Catholicism, now Eastern Orthodox.

I am quite convinced that he was wrong to leave the Catholic Church, but I nevertheless consider him eminently worth listening to.

No one can improve you as much as an unsparing, intelligent critic who loves you.

18 posted on 09/30/2013 10:45:19 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Push back against the age as hard as it pushes against you. " -- Flannery O’Connor,)
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To: SeekAndFind

Sigh. The male Peggy Noonan, bless his earnest heart.


19 posted on 09/30/2013 10:47:31 AM PDT by Tax-chick (I'm not crazy ... I'm just not you.)
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To: SeekAndFind
Was I frustrated because the priests wouldn’t preach God’s judgment instead of God’s mercy? By no means. I was frustrated because they wouldn’t preach God’s judgment at all, which is to say, they preached Christ without the Cross. I knew the depths of the sins from which I was being delivered, and it felt wrong to treat His amazing grace like it was a common courtesy....American Catholicism was not pushing back against the hostile age at all. Rather, it had become a pushover. God is love was not a proclamation that liberated us captives from our sin and despair, but rather a bromide and a platitude that allowed us to believe that, and to behave as if, our lust, greed, malice and so forth – sins that I struggled with every day — weren’t to be despised and cast out, but rather shellacked by a river of treacle. I finally broke....

....There is, of course, no such thing as the perfect church, but in Orthodoxy, which radically resists the moralistic therapeutic deism that characterizes so much American Christianity, I found a soul-healing balance. In my Russian Orthodox country mission parish this past Sunday, the priest preached about love, joy, repentance, and forgiveness – in all its dimensions.

Rod Dreher ping for later

20 posted on 09/30/2013 10:49:09 AM PDT by Alex Murphy (Just a common, ordinary, simple savior of America's destiny.)
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To: Sans-Culotte

Read the article? Oh, come on. He makes his living writing and has a bit of minor celebrity to boot.

Either one of those things means he’s an idiot and probably evil, too, so I can dismiss anything he writes without even skimming it.


21 posted on 09/30/2013 10:52:46 AM PDT by GrootheWanderer
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To: SampleMan; Mrs. Don-o; don-o; SeekAndFind; wideawake; pgkdan
I doubt that this journo-list ever accepted the teachings of the Church, so why does he talk about going back?

Rod converted to Catholicism around the time when the homosexual abuse scandals broke. It was just too much for him and he moved on to Orthodoxy.

At one time I was on a small private email list with him and several others (which included several FReepers) and he really struggled. Rod is a good man and is truly faithful but his roots were not deep enough in Catholicism to keep him in Rome. I don't blame him for moving on but I don't agree with his decision. If the Orthodox had not caved on barrier methods in the 1970s and divorce and remarriage, there was a time in my own life where I could easily have swum the Bosporus.

22 posted on 09/30/2013 10:54:33 AM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: SeekAndFind

The author’s experience is not unique, people attend a church looking for they know not what, only that they don’t find what they seek. They don’t know how to recognize their hoped for destination, Christ’s church, so how can they know what to look for?


23 posted on 09/30/2013 11:00:13 AM PDT by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
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To: Tax-chick
Fr. Z fisks the essay:

:Dreher: “Pope Francis only confirms my decision to leave” the Catholic Church. A HARD look at where we are.

Posted on by Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

There is an intense piece by Rod Dreher over at TIME.  The whole thing is worth a close look, but here are some longish samples.

NB: While I disagree with Dreher’s decision to leave the Catholic Church, I sure understand how he got to that point and I have to agree with a great deal of what he says about the squishy, formless pabulum Catholics have been fed for decades. Dreher, offering a salutary warning, also makes a connection between the destructive “spirit of Vatican II” and its potential replacement, a “spirit of Francis”.

There has been both lavish (nearly irrational) praise of Pope Francis and there has been harsh (nearly irrational) criticism of Pope Francis. I don’t agree with everything that Dreher wrote here (of course… I usually only agree entirely with myself), but I haven’t seen the points he makes put so eloquently.

While Dreher’s look at The Francis Effect™ may make you squirm a little, will any of you be willing to disagree with his vivisection of the American Church?  When he talks about the effects of the “spirit of Vatican II”, doesn’t he hit the nail square on?

We need this kind of hard-nosed, cool introspection. ...

24 posted on 09/30/2013 11:00:34 AM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: SeekAndFind

When I want a cafeteria I drive to the nearest Luby’s.


25 posted on 09/30/2013 11:04:11 AM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: Brian Kopp DPM

I don’t recall reading anything “hard-nosed and cool” by Rod Dreher, ever. I compared him to Peggy Noonan because his great sweeps of emotion as if they were researched and reasoned, rather than felt and projected.

This has nothing to do with how he feels about Pope Francis. It’s my opinion, as a reader, on everything I have read from Rod Dreher, from the early 1990s to today.


26 posted on 09/30/2013 11:04:50 AM PDT by Tax-chick (I'm not crazy ... I'm just not you.)
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To: Tax-chick

That is, “... he presents his great sweeps of emotion ...”. A child distracted me while I was being critical.


27 posted on 09/30/2013 11:05:57 AM PDT by Tax-chick (I'm not crazy ... I'm just not you.)
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To: Brian Kopp DPM

Yep. I came to traditionalism reluctantly...especially since I grew up in fairly good parishes.

Now our family drives 1 hour to get to a Latin Mass parish, and 1 hour back. Because of illnesses, I have in the last month or so had to fulfill my Sunday obligation at the local parish.

I seriously cannot stand going to the latter anymore. It makes me want to pull my hair out. Squishy formless pabulum is right...and what makes it all the more infuriating is that the average Catholic doesn’t even have any idea what we have lost.


28 posted on 09/30/2013 11:11:27 AM PDT by Claud
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To: MichaelCorleone

Actually the author’s point is not what Francis is saying but what those with sinister motives will “interpret” him to say. The “Spirit of Francis” will come to replace the Spirit of Vatican 2 as a rationale to “open the windows” and let in some fresh air.

He talks about the still incomplete work of JPII and BXVI being undone not by Francis but by those who think that only they know what he means.

I actually agree with many of this points.


29 posted on 09/30/2013 11:16:09 AM PDT by VaFederalist
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To: paterfamilias

They have been Osteened...


30 posted on 09/30/2013 11:16:59 AM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: SeekAndFind
Not saying the Catholic Church is doing this, but I know a lot of churches in this day and age spend more time trying to make people feel warm and fuzzy than they are teaching truth.

The church is to preach the gospel of course, but one of its primary roles is to hold members accountable, encouraging them to move closer every day to sanctification.

31 posted on 09/30/2013 11:48:14 AM PDT by MEGoody (You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Give the article a read before you dump on Dreher.

His example of the tolerance of homosexual pedophiles in the priesthood, rather than condemnation and punishment, has a parallel in the bishops’ push for amnesty.

These bishops rant on with “God is love” drivel about illegals. When did you ever hear these bishops condemn the illegals’ violations of the legitimate and just laws on immigration? When did you hear these bishops condemn the illegals’ theft of other innocents’ identities and jobs? Those are “sins”, and the bishops should be condemning them.

No, it’s just “God is love” drivel about illegal immigrants being children of God. No, your Excellencies, they are invaders and criminals, violating the laws and homes and possessions of innocent people. Wait till a million illegal muslims take squatters’ possession of the Vatican and tell me about God is love to them.


32 posted on 09/30/2013 11:48:25 AM PDT by oldbill
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To: don-o
Right there's what an ignorant comment looks like.

Read the article. He states that he never accepted what the faith demanded, yet faulted his teachers (sounds like Northeastern feel good university Catholics) for not pointing out forcifully what was demanded.

So, if by his own admission, he never accepted the requirements of Catholicism, how can he talk about returning to Catholicism?

33 posted on 09/30/2013 12:04:27 PM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Yikes!

As for myself, I consider myself to be a “faithful” Catholic which means I follow the traditional Christian precepts and the church Magisterium.

Re: Pope Francis: Almost weekly I look at the internet for news of the day and I read something or other that Pope Francis has said that literally knocks me off of my comfort zone. Then I read what PF actually said in its entirety, and I realize that: 1)he is not stating anything more than what is in the Gospel of Jesus Christ; and 2) if he is making me a bit uncomfortable, then maybe I need to reorganize my beliefs a bit. Maybe I am too proud, or too aloof from the poor, or not penitent and humble enough. So, I think Pope Francis is doing OK, so far.

All good Christians need to be humble and generous at heart. The Sermon on the Mount comes to mind about the “poor in spirit”.


34 posted on 09/30/2013 12:30:33 PM PDT by Gumdrop
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To: Sans-Culotte

>>Did anyone read the actual article? <<

LOL I come to FR for the comments of course. And it’s priceless to see the writer of the article get bashed for something he didn’t say/mean. The writer seems like he was lamenting the problems in the Church. I don’t get the sense he’s hating on them. So why are you guys hating on this guy? Do you not agree with him that the topic of sin and repentance is being whitewashed? Do you prefer a church that just makes you feel all warm and fuzzy? Or did you just not read the whole article? I’m just asking!


35 posted on 09/30/2013 12:31:17 PM PDT by BJ1
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To: Westbrook

This guy is full of himself. If he wanted to find a Catholic Church he could feel good about attending he needed to look a little harder. The Church I attend has one parish priest and THREE deacons and all preach the sanctity of life, the sacrament of marriage and loving your neighbor. Two of the deacons give better homilies than the priest. One was ordained 32 years ago and is a conservative they come. He is a fellow Knight of Columbus, as are the other two deacons and the priest, who supports the Knights 1000%, and we are 150 man strong, and it’s not a big parish, only consisting of one Church.


36 posted on 09/30/2013 12:34:56 PM PDT by NKP_Vet
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To: Claud
I have in the last month or so had to fulfill my Sunday obligation at the local parish. I seriously cannot stand going to the latter anymore.

Well, you're a better man than me since you still go (or maybe just have a higher threshold for induced insanity?). I can't observe an "obligation" to attend what I sincerely believe to be a demonically-inspired change in liturgy. Fortunately for my soul, I'm excused on the basis of N.O. attendance being a danger to my faith. Even more fortunately there is a Tridentine Mass offered on alternate weekends nearby.

37 posted on 09/30/2013 12:41:12 PM PDT by steve86 (Some things aren't really true but you wouldn't be half surprised if they were.)
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To: SeekAndFind

God has also admonished us to fear Him.


38 posted on 09/30/2013 1:24:26 PM PDT by onedoug
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Comment #39 Removed by Moderator

To: SampleMan

RE: how can he talk about returning to Catholicism?

Was he baptized Catholic? If so, he is talking about returning ( or in his case, not returning ) in THAT sense.


40 posted on 09/30/2013 1:49:13 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: BJ1; Sans-Culotte

RE: LOL I come to FR for the comments of course. And it’s priceless to see the writer of the article get bashed for something he didn’t say/mean.

I tried to post the standard 300 word limit provided by FR, but my post was CUT by the mods to a single short paragraph for the reason that TIME magazine must be excerpted.

So, People MUST read the article before commenting or they’ll be attacking a strawman.


41 posted on 09/30/2013 1:51:56 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: onedoug

Yes. He calls it the beginning of wisdom.


42 posted on 09/30/2013 2:21:15 PM PDT by liege (America 180)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Dear Mrs. Don-o,

“I am quite convinced that he was wrong to leave the Catholic Church, but I nevertheless consider him eminently worth listening to.”

Gotta disagree with you there.

Rod is a drama queen, pure and simple.

He was a bit of an embarrassment when he was Catholic. I can't say I don't harbor a little secret joy that he's unburdened us with his departure.


sitetest

43 posted on 09/30/2013 2:21:37 PM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: Vigilanteman
Dear Rod Dreher:

Coming Home Network


44 posted on 09/30/2013 3:18:10 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: sitetest
De gustibus...

Guess I'll just have to pray him back into the Church, no thanks to you! :op

45 posted on 09/30/2013 5:16:50 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Jesus, my Lord, my God, my all.)
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To: steve86

At the risk of Jesuit casuistry, I only know that for *me* to miss Mass for that reason would be a sin—but that of course assumes a somewhat grating but not heinously offensive Mass. Others’ mileage may vary.

It is truly demonic. I can’t stand the architecture of these churches anymore....where they throw a couple of statues up somewhere as a mere sop to some some pretense of Catholicism, when meanwhile the whole focus of the structure is on itself “Look at me! I’m an interesting building!” rather than on the altar/tabernacle.


46 posted on 09/30/2013 5:40:04 PM PDT by Claud
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Dear Mrs. Don-o,

Do you pray for hurricanes, too?


sitetest

47 posted on 09/30/2013 6:59:37 PM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: sitetest
Do gustibus count as hurricanes?

Gusts of up to 100?

48 posted on 09/30/2013 7:35:56 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (What unites us all, of any race, gender, or religion, is that we all believe we are above average.)
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To: SeekAndFind
He sounds like an interesting person. I was saddened to see him described as a contributor to The American Conservative, an anti-Semitic "palaeo" publication.
49 posted on 09/30/2013 9:08:39 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (The Left: speaking power to truth since Shevirat HaKelim.)
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