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Pope Francis, Theological Wreck
Moore to the Point via RealClear Religion ^ | 10/1/2013 | Russel Moore

Posted on 10/02/2013 1:14:47 PM PDT by Obadiah

It’s another week and thus another interview with Pope Francis. This one, I’m sorry to say, is more than just confusing. It’s a theological wreck.

In an interview with La Repubblica, in response to a question about whether there is a “single vision of good,” the Pope said, “Everyone has his own idea of good and evil and must choose to follow the good and fight evil as he conceives them. That would be enough to make the world a better place,” and “The Son of God became incarnate in the souls of men to instill the feeling of brotherhood.” When the reporter commented, “Some of my colleagues who know you told me that you will try to convert me,” the Pope also said “Proselytism is solemn nonsense, it makes no sense. We need to get to know each other, listen to each other and improve our knowledge of the world around us.”

From Augustine’s Confessions to “Well, everyone has his own ideas about good and bad…” is a mighty long path.

TOPICS: Catholic; General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: popefrancis
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To: Rashputin

You know, rash, when your eyes are finally open and you SEE Jesus...the sorrow you are going to feel for keeping a denominational war going will be great.

There is no Catholic or Protestant...there is only those who are filled with the Spirit of the Lord and those that are not. And those of us who are Spirit filled are trying to take as many to heaven with us as we can...instead of crying on and on about denomination.

Do you not know anything about how late the hour is? It is not about this country or that country anymore. It is about saving souls and gathering as many to Him as possible before it is too late.

There is a much bigger picture that Catholics cannot see and we are trying to change that. When Jesus says the way is narrow, it is even more narrow than we know. One billion Catholics is not narrow. Do you see my meaning?

41 posted on 10/02/2013 8:07:12 PM PDT by jodyel
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To: Salvation

A few papal quotes to start with:

Pope Adrian VI († 1523)

“If by the Roman Church you mean its head or pontiff, it is beyond question that he can err even in matters touching the faith. He does this when he teaches heresy by his own judgment or decretal. In truth, many Roman pontiffs were heretics. The last of them was Pope John XXII († 1334).” (Quaest. in IV Sent.; quoted in Viollet, Papal Infallibility and the Syllabus, 1908).*

Pope Innocent III († 1216)

“The pope should not flatter himself about his power, nor should he rashly glory in his honor and high estate, because the less he is judged by man, the more he is judged by God. Still the less can the Roman Pontiff glory, because he can be judged by men, or rather, can be shown to be already judged, if for example he should wither away into heresy, because “he who does not believe is already judged.” (St. John 3:18) In such a case it should be said of him: ‘If salt should lose its savour, it is good for nothing but to be cast out and trampled under foot by men.’” (Sermo 4)

42 posted on 10/03/2013 2:42:23 AM PDT by piusv
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To: jodyel

Just because one recognizes heretical statements by so-called popes does not mean one renders Traditional Catholicism heresy and walks away from it and joins some other heresy such as sola scriptura. Quite the contrary, one holds fast to it. This pope is saying things contrary to Traditional Catholicism. He is a Modernist and Modernism was condemned pre-Vatican II as heresy.

43 posted on 10/03/2013 3:42:06 AM PDT by piusv
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To: piusv

I see...well, good luck with that then.

44 posted on 10/03/2013 4:56:22 AM PDT by jodyel
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To: Obadiah; All
If anyone is hung up on the phraseology "everyone has their own idea of good and bad" remember two points:

One, that's translated from Italian to English. I'm sorry, but that's just a fact; it's also a fact the old cliche is true: things get lost in translation.

With that in mind, it's been Catholic teaching for ages that everyone is born with a conscience, with the law on their hearts (cf CCC 1954). This is everyone, atheists included. This fact is undoubtedly to what the Holy Father was referring. That is, he was clearly saying, "everyone has the ability to know what is basically good and basically bad. If everyone just followed this ability, the world would already be a better place"

Is he a bit "loose" with his words? Does he use terms in a non conventional way? Perhaps. And maybe that is a bad thing if all it does is cause confusion and scandal. I can see that and acknowledge that's a valid concern. I'm not saying that we shouldn't care at all about him being more precise. He is the Pope after all. Perhaps he should take more care.

However, how do I "know" this is what he was saying (what I wrote above)? Because he speaks a lot like we do in Communion and Liberation, an ecclesiastical lay movement in the Church, and you can rest assured, CL is not heterodox in any way. It's just another way of speaking. It's not formal in any way. But that's the point, as ours is a movement of true evangelization, going out into the world and meeting the people at their level, speaking about real things and real needs, not theological ideas and abstract concepts.

That's what real evangelism is anyway.

45 posted on 10/03/2013 5:41:01 AM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
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To: FourtySeven

Appreciate your thoughts. I like your optimism. I do hope you are accurate in your assessment.

46 posted on 10/03/2013 6:16:44 AM PDT by Obadiah (I Like Ted.)
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To: FourtySeven

Good post. I think others here (including myself) have been trying to communicate this, but none as successfully as you.

47 posted on 10/03/2013 6:27:26 AM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: FourtySeven

IOW: Do your own thing.

The Pope is a hippie from the seventies!

48 posted on 10/03/2013 8:16:10 AM PDT by miserare (Fire Eric Holder!)
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To: sitetest


49 posted on 10/03/2013 8:44:02 AM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
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