Rescuing Souls

http://proclaimingthegospel.org/equip/articles/54-rescuing-souls ^ | unknown | Mike Gendron

[Arthur McGowan]

What? Where does Peter say he’s referring to the Acts of the Apostles? Or to any specific book of the New Testament? And obviously Peter CAN’T be referring to those books of the NT that hadn’t been written yet!

BTW: Luke, not Paul, wrote the Acts of the Apostles.

[Lonely Bull]

>>I've wondered for some time how it's possible, as some people seem to think, to use "religion" as sort of a Bad Word while taking these scriptures seriously.<<

Maybe because the Greek word used in verse 26 is different than the Greek word used in verse 27? The first Greek word used in verse 26 does mean religion but the second Greek word used in verse 26 and the Greek word used in verse 27 means worship more so than “religion”. If you translate those words correctly you get a little better picture of what is being said.

James 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion worship is vain.

James 1:27 Pure religion worship and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

I checked: the word used for "religious" in v. 26 and the word used for "religion" in vv. 26 and 27 are etymologically related. (If you use Strong's numbers, the associated two are respectively G2357 and G2356.)

At least one lexicon explicitly mentions an emphasis on ceremonies or on the externals of worship concerning G2356 ("religion") but not explicitly G2357 ("religious"), but at least to me, the context in these verses doesn't seem to justify a recent usage of "religion" as a universal negative.

I just don't see the justification for that usage, whether in the changes in the wider language (we no longer ordinarily use "prevent" in its sense of "come before") or in alleged progress in our theology.

I even admit that seeing that sort of thing--for instance, "religion" treated as a sort of opposite of "faith" or "relationship [with God]"--raises a red flag for me concerning the credibility of what I'm reading or hearing.

Now, some people are indeed unclear on the idea that "having a religion" isn't the same thing as "having faith" or "having a relationship with God," but adopting this reaction is overkill--especially if you happen to belong to what by any reasonable definition is indeed "religious." (Included in "reasonable" is the suggestion that your definition isn't both nonstandard and tendentious.)

The original poster has posted about "rescuing souls" from "the bondage of religion" in--where else?--the "religion forum." ("In the Religion forum, on a thread titled Rescuing Souls, CynicalBear wrote:") I'm not being too literalistic about the name of this forum, but neither is the name meaningless or misleading.

[Iscool]

And obviously Peter CAN’T be referring to those books of the NT that hadn’t been written yet!

Of course he can...Peter knows who he was hanging around with...Peter knows the other close disciples and Apostles...Peter acknowledged Paul's writing as scripture...So Peter recognized there was scripture...

Not only did Peter NOT say to Paul, 'why are writing this stuff down, Jesus didn't tell us to write anything down, Peter recognized it as scripture, holy writing...

2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Paul then was a holy man of God...

Luk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Jesus' method of preserving his words was written scripture...

Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me

You want to know what Jesus teaches, 'Search the scriptures'...

Peter knew Paul was a holy man chosen of God...Peter recognized that Paul wrote holy scripture...Peter would have accepted everything Paul had written to the churches as Holy Scripture, even his future writing, as would all of the apostles...

The other apostles were in the same boat...They were holy men chosen of God...Whatever they wrote to the churches, Peter would have recognized as written Holy Scripture...

A person will not spend much time in the scriptures without learning and understanding that right off the bat...To question the authenticity of scripture is proof positive that a person has no bond with the Holy Spirit...

The question may come up; 'what about the other books written by apostles, ie, the Gospel of Thomas, etc., etc...

They may or may not be authentic...God determined what he wanted us to have so it makes no difference whether they are authentic or not...We have what God gave us...

[Arthur McGowan]

When Jesus referred to “the Scriptures,” he was talking about the Jewish Scriptures. Not one word of the New Testament had been written.

Nothing I have said questions ANY Scriptures, so it’s beside the point to point out all the Scriptures that recommend “searching the Scriptures,” etc.

But Peter could not possibly have been referring to things that had not yet been written.

If you believe that the New Testament contains 27 books, and that they are all inspired, then you are giving your assent to a decision that was made by the Pope and bishops assembled in Rome, a couple of hundred years after the completion of those writings.

[St_Thomas_Aquinas]

I wouldn’t want to defend it either.

[stonehouse01]

“gross misinterpretation...”

Absolutely not. The Douay Rehiems bible is the closest translation to the original Latin and Greek that is out there. Later “bibles” contain modern error. The Douay Rheims is base 100% on the original Latin and Greek vulgate translated by St. Jerome himself.

[stonehouse01]

“..Catholica mock and deride...”

No one is mocking or deriding anything. The Catholic Church requires baptism because the bible requires it based on the verse from Acts that I quoted as well as other verses.

No mocking or hypocrisy is involved. Attacking Catholicism without actually understanding its teachings isn’t OK.

[stonehouse01]

meant Catholics, not Catholica typo

[stonehouse01]

“many do believe that being Baptized saves them...”

It’s in the bible that being saved requires baptism -

1 St. Peter Chapter 4 Verse 21

Whereunto baptism, being of the like form, now saveth you also:

There are other verses that make it clear baptism is necessary for salvation.

Anecdotal evidence is rather weak evidence of a position.

“...what one might ‘believe’ and what the ‘truth’ of the matter is can be very different than one desires it to be...”

So true - and without the bible to back up a position, the truth is merely an opinion. God’s Word:

Acts 22:16

Rise up and be baptized and wash away thy sins, invoking his name.

[stonehouse01]

“Works don’t save”

Christ saves, works are required to cooperate with the saving grace of Christ. Faith without works is dead, so if there are no works, a person’s faith is dead.

[stonehouse01]

“..the dead before this throne are evidently the unsaved of all ages ...”

Tying this verse into all of those other verses ends up creating a convoluted and opinion filled interpretation of Revelation 20:12. The meaning is clear and straightforward and stands on its own. The dead are judged acccroding to their works. Period.

[Elsie]

[Elsie]

You want to know what Jesus teaches, 'Search the scriptures'...

---

NIV Matthew 2:5
"In Bethlehem in Judea," they replied, "for this is what the prophet has written:

NIV Matthew 4:1-11
1. Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil.
2. After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry.
3. The tempter came to him and said, "If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread."
4. Jesus answered, "It is written: `Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.' "
5. Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple.
6. "If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down. For it is written: "`He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.' "
7. Jesus answered him, "It is also written: `Do not put the Lord your God to the test.' "
8. Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.
9. "All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me."
10. Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: `Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.' "
11. Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.

NIV Matthew 11:10
This is the one about whom it is written: "`I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way before you.'

NIV Matthew 21:13
"It is written," he said to them, "`My house will be called a house of prayer,' but you are making it a `den of robbers.' "

NIV Matthew 26:24
The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him.

NIV Matthew 26:31
Then Jesus told them, "This very night you will all fall away on account of me, for it is written: "`I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.'

NIV Mark 7:6-7
6. He replied, "Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: "`These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
7. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'

NIV Mark 9:11-13
11. And they asked him, "Why do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?"
12. Jesus replied, "To be sure, Elijah does come first, and restores all things. Why then is it written that the Son of Man must suffer much and be rejected?
13. But I tell you, Elijah has come, and they have done to him everything they wished, just as it is written about him."

NIV Mark 11:17
And as he taught them, he said, "Is it not written: "`My house will be called a house of prayer for all nations' ? But you have made it `a den of robbers.' "

NIV Mark 14:27
"You will all fall away," Jesus told them, "for it is written: "`I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered.'

NIV Luke 1:1-4
1. Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us,
2. just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word.
3. Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus,
4. so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.

NIV Luke 4:17-19
17. The scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written:
18. "The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed,
19. to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor."

NIV Luke 7:27
This is the one about whom it is written: "`I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way before you.'

NIV Luke 10:26
"What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?"

NIV Luke 18:31-33
31. Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, "We are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled.
32. He will be handed over to the Gentiles. They will mock him, insult him, spit on him, flog him and kill him.
33. On the third day he will rise again."

NIV Luke 20:17-18
17. Jesus looked directly at them and asked, "Then what is the meaning of that which is written: "`The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone ' ?
18. Everyone who falls on that stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed."

NIV Luke 21:22
For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written.

NIV Luke 22:37
It is written: `And he was numbered with the transgressors' ; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment."

NIV Luke 24:44-47
44. He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms."
45. Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures.
46. He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day,
47. and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

NIV John 2:17
His disciples remembered that it is written: "Zeal for your house will consume me."

 

NIV John 6:31
Our forefathers ate the manna in the desert; as it is written: `He gave them bread from heaven to eat.' "

NIV John 6:45
It is written in the Prophets: `They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me.

NIV John 12:14-16
14. Jesus found a young donkey and sat upon it, as it is written,
15. "Do not be afraid, O Daughter of Zion; see, your king is coming, seated on a donkey's colt."
16. At first his disciples did not understand all this. Only after Jesus was glorified did they realize that these things had been written about him and that they had done these things to him.

NIV John 15:25
But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: `They hated me without reason.'

NIV John 20:30-31
30. Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book.
31. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

NIV Acts 1:20
"For," said Peter, "it is written in the book of Psalms, "`May his place be deserted; let there be no one to dwell in it,' and, "`May another take his place of leadership.'

NIV Acts 7:42
But God turned away and gave them over to the worship of the heavenly bodies. This agrees with what is written in the book of the prophets: "`Did you bring me sacrifices and offerings forty years in the desert, O house of Israel?

NIV Acts 13:29
When they had carried out all that was written about him, they took him down from the tree and laid him in a tomb.

NIV Acts 13:32-33
32. "We tell you the good news: What God promised our fathers
33. he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus. As it is written in the second Psalm: "`You are my Son; today I have become your Father. '

NIV Acts 15:15-18
15. The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:
16. "`After this I will return and rebuild David's fallen tent. Its ruins I will rebuild, and I will restore it,
17. that the remnant of men may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who bear my name, says the Lord, who does these things'
18. that have been known for ages.

NIV Acts 23:5
Paul replied, "Brothers, I did not realize that he was the high priest; for it is written: `Do not speak evil about the ruler of your people.' "

NIV Acts 24:14
However, I admit that I worship the God of our fathers as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that agrees with the Law and that is written in the Prophets,
and I have the same hope in God as these men, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

NIV Romans 1:17
For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."

NIV Romans 2:24
As it is written: "God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you."

NIV Romans 3:4
Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: "So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge."

NIV Romans 3:10-12
10. As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one;
11. there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God.
12. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one."

NIV Romans 4:17
As it is written: "I have made you a father of many nations." He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed--the God who gives life to the dead and calls things that are not as though they were.

NIV Romans 4:23-24
23. The words "it was credited to him" were written not for him alone,
24. but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness--for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.

NIV Romans 8:36
As it is written: "For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."

NIV Romans 9:13
Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

NIV Romans 9:33
As it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

NIV Romans 10:15
And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"

NIV Romans 11:7-10
7. What then? What Israel sought so earnestly it did not obtain, but the elect did. The others were hardened,
8. as it is written: "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes so that they could not see and ears so that they could not hear, to this very day."
9. And David says: "May their table become a snare and a trap, a stumbling block and a retribution for them.
10. May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see, and their backs be bent forever."

NIV Romans 11:26-27
26. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins."

NIV Romans 12:19
Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord.

NIV Romans 14:11
It is written: "`As surely as I live,' says the Lord, `every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.'"

NIV Romans 15:3-4
3. For even Christ did not please himself but, as it is written: "The insults of those who insult you have fallen on me."
4. For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

NIV Romans 15:7-12
7. Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God.
8. For I tell you that Christ has become a servant of the Jews on behalf of God's truth, to confirm the promises made to the patriarchs
9. so that the Gentiles may glorify God for his mercy, as it is written: "Therefore I will praise you among the Gentiles; I will sing hymns to your name."
10. Again, it says, "Rejoice, O Gentiles, with his people."
11. And again, "Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles, and sing praises to him, all you peoples."
12. And again, Isaiah says, "The Root of Jesse will spring up, one who will arise to rule over the nations; the Gentiles will hope in him."

NIV Romans 15:21
Rather, as it is written: "Those who were not told about him will see, and those who have not heard will understand."

NIV 1 Corinthians 1:19
For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."

NIV 1 Corinthians 1:31
Therefore, as it is written: "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."

NIV 1 Corinthians 2:9
However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him" --

NIV 1 Corinthians 3:19-20
19. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight. As it is written: "He catches the wise in their craftiness" ;
20. and again, "The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile."

NIV 1 Corinthians 4:6
Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.

NIV 1 Corinthians 9:9
For it is written in the Law of Moses: "Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain." Is it about oxen that God is concerned?

NIV 1 Corinthians 10:7
Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written: "The people sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in pagan revelry."

NIV 1 Corinthians 10:11
These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come.

NIV 1 Corinthians 14:21
In the Law it is written: "Through men of strange tongues and through the lips of foreigners I will speak to this people, but even then they will not listen to me," says the Lord.

NIV 1 Corinthians 15:45
So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being" ; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

NIV 1 Corinthians 15:54
When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."

NIV 2 Corinthians 1:13-14
13. For we do not write you anything you cannot read or understand. And I hope that,
14. as you have understood us in part, you will come to understand fully that you can boast of us just as we will boast of you in the day of the Lord Jesus.

NIV 2 Corinthians 4:13-14
13. it is written: "I believed; therefore I have spoken." With that same spirit of faith we also believe and therefore speak,
14. because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you in his presence.

NIV 2 Corinthians 8:15
as it is written: "He who gathered much did not have too much, and he who gathered little did not have too little."

NIV Galatians 3:10
All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."

NIV Galatians 3:13
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."

NIV Galatians 4:22
For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman.

NIV Galatians 4:27
For it is written: "Be glad, O barren woman, who bears no children; break forth and cry aloud, you who have no labor pains; because more are the children of the desolate woman than of her who has a husband."

NIV Hebrews 10:7
Then I said, `Here I am-- it is written about me in the scroll-- I have come to do your will, O God.'"

NIV 1 Peter 1:15-16
But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy."

NIV 2 Peter 3:16
He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

NIV 1 John 2:12-14
12. I write to you, dear children, because your sins have been forgiven on account of his name.
13. I write to you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning. I write to you young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I write to you, dear children, because you have known the Father.
14. I write to you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God lives in you, and you have overcome the evil one.

[Elsie]

I wouldn’t want to defend it either.

Yet many Catholics do.

Well; not the actual RELIGION itself; but poor, put upon MORMONs who get ATTACKED so viciously by we ANTI-Mormon(ism) folks.

[Elsie]

Later “bibles” contain modern error.

That's a mighty broad brush yer swingin' at an ill defined target.

Could ye be a wee bit more specific?

[Elsie]

The Catholic Church requires baptism because the bible requires it based on the verse from Acts that I quoted as well as other verses.

That's interesting: WHICH verse?

---

John 6:28-29

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

[Elsie]

Tying this verse into all of those other verses ends up creating a convoluted and opinion filled interpretation of Revelation 20:12.

Like THIS???

---

Exodus 32:32-33
 But now, if you will forgive their sin—but if not, please blot me out of your book that you have written.”  But the Lord said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me, I will blot out of my book.

 

Daniel 12:1
 “At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book.

 

 

 

Philippians 4:3
 And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.

 

Revelation 3:5
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

 

Revelation 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

 

 

Revelation 17:8
 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

 

 

 

Revelation 20:11-15
"Then I saw a great White Throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and THE BOOKS WERE OPENED. Another book was opened WHICH IS THE BOOK OF LIFE. The dead were judged according to their works as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to their works.  Then death and Hades were thrown into the Lake of Fire. The Lake of Fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written IN THE BOOK OF LIFE, he was thrown into the lake of fire."

 

Revelation 21:27

Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

[Iscool]

If you believe that the New Testament contains 27 books, and that they are all inspired, then you are giving your assent to a decision that was made by the Pope and bishops assembled in Rome, a couple of hundred years after the completion of those writings.

Just as Holy men spoke and then wrote the scriptures, they spoke what God would have them say...

The Majority texts which which are not Roman make up my scriptures...Rome has zero to do with my bible, the bible of the Reformation...

Sorry, I have no connection to Rome...God gets all the credit...

[Iscool]

Tying this verse into all of those other verses ends up creating a convoluted and opinion filled interpretation of Revelation 20:12. The meaning is clear and straightforward and stands on its own. The dead are judged acccroding to their works. Period.

I'd say you have a convoluted understanding of the scriptures...You guys pick out the scriptures that you think agrees with your position but you won't touch the verses that contradict your position...

Those who study the scriptures can not take you seriously...

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“Tying this verse into all of those other verses ends up creating a convoluted and opinion filled interpretation of Revelation 20:12. The meaning is clear and straightforward and stands on its own. The dead are judged acccroding to their works. Period.”

An opinion at best. You are saying the rest of Scripture is not useful in understanding Scripture. By doing so, you have thrown out all passages about salvation, Christ’s atoning death, the sealing of the believer, Christ’s own words that of all the Father gave Him, He will lose none, etc.

OR

You can honestly look at the totality of God’s inspired revelation and reconcile what He has said.

You can take the trash the rest approach. I will take the what did God say approach.