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America Needs Fatima Public Square Rosary
America Needs Fatima / Church Bulletin ^ | 10-09-2013 | mlizzy

Posted on 10/09/2013 10:04:57 AM PDT by mlizzy



TOPICS: Catholic; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics; Worship
KEYWORDS: catholic; cultoffatima; fatima; prayer; rosary
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"The Rosary will be a very powerful armor against hell; it will destroy vice, deliver from sin and dispel heresy." --Our Lady to Saint Dominic
Didn't realize this Saturday, October 12, was America Needs Fatima's weekend for their public Rosary rallies across the nation. But, alas, after reading our church bulletin today, I see we are having one too. Check out the ANF site if you'd like to join in http://www.americaneedsfatima.org/ and "pray for our Country."
1 posted on 10/09/2013 10:04:57 AM PDT by mlizzy
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To: mlizzy
Didn't realize this Saturday, October 12, was America Needs Fatima's weekend for their public Rosary rallies across the nation.

Thank you, but I disagree. America needs submission to Jesus Christ, not prayers to his mom.

2 posted on 10/09/2013 10:15:41 AM PDT by Alex Murphy (Just a common, ordinary, simple savior of America's destiny.)
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To: Alex Murphy

Please do not insult the millions of the Christian faith who venerate the Blessed Virgin. You are entitled to your beliefs; so are we.


3 posted on 10/09/2013 10:32:18 AM PDT by Ike (My idea of election reform - blue fingers in Philadelphia!)
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To: Alex Murphy

Please do not insult the millions of the Christian faith who venerate the Blessed Virgin. You are entitled to your beliefs; so are we.


4 posted on 10/09/2013 10:32:18 AM PDT by Ike (My idea of election reform - blue fingers in Philadelphia!)
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To: Ike
Please do not insult the millions of the Christian faith who venerate the Blessed Virgin. You are entitled to your beliefs; so are we.

If I'm entitled to my beliefs, where did disagreement turn into an insult? Put some salve on it and walk it off.

5 posted on 10/09/2013 10:38:30 AM PDT by Alex Murphy (Just a common, ordinary, simple savior of America's destiny.)
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To: Alex Murphy

I don’t take your comment as an insult. But might I suggest that by honoring the Mother of Jesus we are venerating Jesus as well? Just as in a family, love is not a zero-sum game. I was one of 10 kids, and my mom spoiled each of us. We can love and honor Mary, and Joseph, and Paul, and Augustine etal and still have unlimited of love and devotion to give to the One we all, the living and the saved dead, are living for.


6 posted on 10/09/2013 10:50:50 AM PDT by jobim (.)
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To: Alex Murphy
Thank you, but I disagree. America needs submission to Jesus Christ, not prayers to his mom.
I'm not trying to change any beliefs you have, Alex. This is only a public service type announcement to those [like myself who forgot] who are Catholic and love Mary, and enjoy reciting her beads for the cause of a better America.
7 posted on 10/09/2013 10:59:01 AM PDT by mlizzy (If people spent an hour a week in Eucharistic adoration, abortion would be ended. --Mother Teresa)
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To: mlizzy

“But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there shall be among you lying teachers, who shall bring in sects of perdition, and deny the Lord who bought them: bringing upon themselves swift destruction.” 2 Peter 2:1 Douay-Rheims

To wit: the cult of Fatima!

Precious as she was, Lord Jesus NEVER pointed to his mother, only to himself! Believers only go to God through Jesus Christ.


8 posted on 10/09/2013 11:00:03 AM PDT by avenir (I'm pessimistic about man, but I'm optimistic about GOD!)
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America Needs Fatima/TFP:

anyone notice that this org. is zealous and dishonest in their fundraising. Used to get a lot of mailers from these people a few years back, every protest of a blasphemous hollywood film they sponsored everyone was supposed to send $$ so they could stage these protests. In reality, their protests were 50-100 of their people who arrived by their own transportation or presumably a rented bus was involved. In other words, they didnt need the money for a protest but were using their protest as fundraisers to fund the org. and not the protest. And they were big on mailers for “funding” these small staged protests.

Other stuff they do is troubling also.


9 posted on 10/09/2013 11:25:14 AM PDT by RBStealth (--raised by wolves, disciplined and educated by nuns.)
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To: RBStealth

I dont normally recommend this UnityPublishing/Rick Salbato guy. He publishes a lot of trash, but trash mixed with good information. He passes along too much innuendo and slander as verified information when it is not.

However, there are certainly seeds of truth in the following articles:

http://www.unitypublishing.com/NewReligiousMovements/FatimaCult.html

http://www.unitypublishing.com/Apparitions/TFP-AmericaNeedsFatima.htm


10 posted on 10/09/2013 11:30:08 AM PDT by RBStealth (--raised by wolves, disciplined and educated by nuns.)
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To: Ike

It’s an insult to disagree?

If that’s your attitude, start a caucus thread and stay in your own little bubble.


11 posted on 10/09/2013 11:37:05 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: jobim

“We can love and honor Mary, and Joseph, and Paul, and Augustine etal and still have unlimited of love and devotion to give to the One we all, the living and the saved dead, are living for.”

Maybe you can, but I don’t think I can. I’m only human, and there are only so many hours in the day. Once I feel I have sufficiently honored the Lord with all the devotion he deserves, then maybe I will see if I have any left to spare for mere men. So far, I haven’t given Him his due yet.


12 posted on 10/09/2013 11:39:34 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Alex Murphy

Catholics pray to the Blessed Virgin as well as the Saints to ask them to offer intercessory prayers for us. We DO NOT worship Mary, nor the Saints. We ask them to pray to God and Jesus Christ on our behalf. The same as when we ask our earthly friends or family to pray for us.


13 posted on 10/09/2013 11:58:43 AM PDT by jp3 (BABIES, GUNS & JESUS...HOT DAMN!!)
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To: avenir

>Precious as she was, Lord Jesus NEVER pointed to his mother, only to himself! Believers only go to God through Jesus Christ.<

John 19:27 “Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your Mother!”

I think he did....


14 posted on 10/09/2013 12:11:57 PM PDT by jp3 (BABIES, GUNS & JESUS...HOT DAMN!!)
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To: jp3; Alex Murphy
>> We ask them to pray to God and Jesus Christ on our behalf. The same as when we ask our earthly friends or family to pray for us.<<

Yeah right. Let’s see what you say to your “earthly friends or family” then.

Here as an example are some excerpts from a prayer by Pope Pius XII to Mary.

we cast ourselves into your arms
Lily of all holiness
Conqueress of evil and death
Convert the wicked
In your name
before your throne
your altars
You are the glory, you are the joy, you are the honor of our people

You say all that to your “friends and family” ey? Give us a break and understand we can see what it is and is not.

15 posted on 10/09/2013 12:18:55 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: RBStealth
Yes, you're right, the site is set up in trashy form, but I think I now remember reading about TFP's connection to America Needs Fatima. I'll read up on your links and further. Thank you! Still and all, only good can come from praying Our Lady's beads, and folks can pass on donating [I wasn't promoting that facet of the rallies anyway].

Just prayer, prayer, prayer. Lord knows we need prayer.
16 posted on 10/09/2013 1:37:31 PM PDT by mlizzy (If people spent an hour a week in Eucharistic adoration, abortion would be ended. --Mother Teresa)
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To: CynicalBear

I used to see these bumper stickers in New Orleans: Can’t find Jesus? Look for his Mother.


17 posted on 10/09/2013 2:22:19 PM PDT by ViLaLuz (2 Chronicles 7:14)
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To: mlizzy

TFP is the organization, ‘America Needs Fatima’ is a campaign of theirs. They run 2 websites off of both names.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Society_for_the_Defense_of_Tradition,_Family_and_Property

http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=6863

My wife and her friends ran into one of the guys who drives around Mary Fatima Pilgrim statutes. One of the friends was hosting the BVM statue through their ‘America Needs Fatima’. True, to the UnityPublishing article, the guy(driver) devotes the greater portion of his life to driving those statues around to homes that host it to do organized prayer.
They(the one guy) make a pitch for donations and want you to join the org. and contribute monthly. They have levels of either membership or monthly donation. As to the guy driving the statue around, he was not middle class—lower class, run down car. Seems he was devoting his life for this and this organization. This is obviously a two-sided coin. Good and Bad. The Unity publishing article makes much the same point, how devotion to the org. can be a bad thing and lead to a dearth of priestly vocations.

Once again this is not a formally approved Catholic Church organization. I’ve seen and read enough to not want to be involved and to dissuade others from getting too involved.


18 posted on 10/09/2013 2:33:25 PM PDT by RBStealth (--raised by wolves, disciplined and educated by nuns.)
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To: jp3

He said that to John.


19 posted on 10/09/2013 2:40:30 PM PDT by avenir (I'm pessimistic about man, but I'm optimistic about GOD!)
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To: RBStealth

Thanks very much for that information. I’ll go pray on Saturday and leave it at that. I know there are pro-life organizations that are not formal CC organizations, but do much good, and they request donations as well, but it’s always good to be in the know [about TFP], so thanks once again.


20 posted on 10/09/2013 2:54:00 PM PDT by mlizzy (If people spent an hour a week in Eucharistic adoration, abortion would be ended. --Mother Teresa)
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To: Alex Murphy
It is prayers to him with the Heavenly Court of witnesses. You just do not see it. But in case you would like to see how it ends.

V. Pray for us, O Holy Mother of God.

R. That we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.

Let us pray. O GOD, whose only begotten Son, by His life, death, and resurrection, has Purchased for Us the Rewards of Eternal Life, Grant, we beseech Thee, that meditating upon these mysteries(Miracle events in the Gospel) of the Most Holy Rosary of the Blessed Virgin Mary, we may imitate what they contain and obtain what they promise, through the Same Christ Our Lord. Amen.

If we read everything to the end we get a better picture that Christ is the center of it all.

Peace in Christ.

21 posted on 10/09/2013 4:34:38 PM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: RBStealth; wideawake
This Plinio guy and his organization are an interesting bunch. Unlike most right wing Catholics, he actually rejected the idea that Francisco Franco was a traditional Catholic but claimed instead that he was a "national socialist" who used traditional Catholicism. TFP is also adamantly opposed to distributism and seems to favor a more American-style understanding of capitalism (again, most unusual in far right Catholics). Whatever one might say about all this, it means they are not traditional European "fascists."

However, they also seem to equate chrstianity with Europe as an ethnoculture; ie, Europe is the chrstian 'Eretz Yisra'el and the European nations are the new (lehavdil) "tribes of Israel." Medieval Europe is regarded as a sort of one-time utopian millennium which must be restored.

The attack on conservative American Protestants in the articles referenced was entirely uncalled-for.

22 posted on 10/09/2013 6:22:17 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (The Left: speaking power to truth since Shevirat HaKelim.)
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To: mlizzy

15 Promises Our Lady gave for praying the Most Holy Rosary (with a cutoff at the I , Me, My on each or any for effect) from the How to Pray the Rosary booklet... Catholics, please flee from this .....
Way too many I, Me, My’s for any prophetess.....regardless of her claim to be our Savior’s Jewish mother....

1. Whoever shall faithfully serve Me.....

2. I promise My special protection....

3. The Rosary shall be a powerful armor against hell, it will destroy vice, decrease sin, and defeat heresies.

4. It will cause virtue and good works to flourish; it will obtain for souls the abundant mercy of God; it will withdraw the hearts of men from the love of the world and its vanities, and will lift them to the desire of eternal things. Oh, that souls would sanctify themselves by this means.

5. The soul which recommends itself to Me....

6. Whoever shall recite the Rosary devoutly, applying himself to the consideration of its sacred mysteries, shall never be conquered by misfortune. God will not chastise him in His justice, he shall not perish by an unprovided death; if he be just he shall remain in the grace of God, and become worthy of eternal life.

7. Whoever shall have a true devotion for the Rosary shall not die without the Sacraments of the Church.

8. Those who are faithful in reciting the Rosary shall have during their life and at their death the light of God and the plenitude of His graces; at the moment of death they shall participate in the merits of the saints in paradise.

9. I shall deliver from purgatory....

10. The faithful children of the Rosary shall merit a high degree of glory in Heaven.

11. You shall obtain all you ask of Me.....

12. All those who propagate the holy Rosary shall be aided by Me....

14. All who recite the Rosary are My sons.....

15. Devotion to My Rosary.....


23 posted on 10/09/2013 6:36:46 PM PDT by delchiante
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To: Ike
Please do not insult the millions of the Christian faith who venerate the Blessed Virgin. You are entitled to your beliefs; so are we.

As long as you leave the bible out of it...You (your religion) pervert the bible to claim justification for your pagan practices...You guys can worship goats and candy canes and it won't make a bit of difference to me, until you pervert the Holy Scriptures and falsely claim the scriptures gives you the authority to do that...

24 posted on 10/09/2013 6:58:39 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: jp3
Catholics pray to the Blessed Virgin as well as the Saints to ask them to offer intercessory prayers for us.

Your religion has proven time and again that it teaches to pray to Mary alone for salvation, for grace, for healing, and every other attribute that is possessed of God alone...

That's what we and God object to and most of you know it...

25 posted on 10/09/2013 7:06:27 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: johngrace
Let us pray. O GOD, whose only begotten Son, by His life, death, and resurrection, has Purchased for Us the Rewards of Eternal Life,

That saying is a little convoluted...Are you sure you understand what the activity at the cross was all about???

Jesus did not purchase a reward for us, Jesus purchased us...

1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

It's interesting that most Catholics seem to ignore this verse and those like it which show that believers are indwelt with the Holy Spirit...

I find it odd that you, claiming to be 'in the Spirit' do not bring this message to the other Catholics on these threads...

And it's odd to me that you find yourself in communion with those who reject the idea of the indwelling of the Spirit...But anyway;

1Co 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

26 posted on 10/09/2013 7:22:25 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: delchiante

15 statements...

15 lies...


27 posted on 10/09/2013 7:24:40 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: Boogieman

“Maybe you can, but I don’t think I can.”

Do you love Jesus and your spouse (and kids?) or just Jesus? I’m serious. If you can love your spouse, your kids, your parents, your siblings, your friends, your neighbors (gee, didn’t Jesus tell us to love them and our enemies to?) AND Jesus then you can love the saints too.


28 posted on 10/09/2013 8:12:38 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: Boogieman

BUMP

and what in the world is a Fatima?

is it related to Enema?

Being saved requires God through Jesus, that is all. You don’t need to worry about “Saints” who are appointed as such by humans.


29 posted on 10/09/2013 8:16:58 PM PDT by GeronL
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Comment #30 Removed by Moderator

To: mlizzy
Very much agree (American needs Fatima). Don't know anything about the organization but agree with the statement.

...Skipping all the subsequent nasty comments.
31 posted on 10/09/2013 8:59:08 PM PDT by steve86 (Some things aren't really true but you wouldn't be half surprised if they were.)
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To: vladimir998

Love and religious devotion are two separate things though. If I start setting up shrines to my earthly loved ones or saying repetitive prayers to them, then it might be a fair comparison. Otherwise, there isn’t an equivalency.


32 posted on 10/09/2013 9:12:57 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Iscool
 photo untitled-44.jpg
33 posted on 10/09/2013 9:20:53 PM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: mlizzy

Think of Lepanto and the miracle that happened there when so many people said the Rosary!


34 posted on 10/09/2013 9:22:05 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Boogieman

“Love and religious devotion are two separate things though.”

And which one were you commenting on? Let’s look at what you responded to:

“We can love and honor Mary, and Joseph, and Paul, and Augustine etal and still have unlimited of love and devotion to give to the One we all, the living and the saved dead, are living for.”

See that? “can love and honor”; “unlimited of love and devotion”.

And your response?

“Maybe you can, but I don’t think I can. I’m only human, and there are only so many hours in the day. Once I feel I have sufficiently honored the Lord with all the devotion he deserves, then maybe I will see if I have any left to spare for mere men. So far, I haven’t given Him his due yet.”

So, you honor the Lord but have no love for Him? After all, you said, “Love and religious devotion are two separate things though.”

“If I start setting up shrines to my earthly loved ones or saying repetitive prayers to them, then it might be a fair comparison. Otherwise, there isn’t an equivalency.”

Yes, there is. Do you love those people or not? Have any pictures of them around the house? Ever celebrate their birthdays, anniversaries, accomplishments, etc.? If you can do those things for your family AND LOVE THEM TOO OF COURSE and yet also love Jesus, then you have room for saints in your life too. Sorry, that’s just irrefutable. If you’re going to tell me you have no time or energy for anyone other than the Lord, then you had better not be married or have kids.


35 posted on 10/09/2013 9:23:49 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: Salvation

You’re right Salvation! It is ignored by so many..


36 posted on 10/09/2013 9:32:47 PM PDT by mlizzy (If people spent an hour a week in Eucharistic adoration, abortion would be ended. --Mother Teresa)
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To: delchiante

Thank you delchiante! When one holds the rosary, they are holding the hand of Mary, the most perfect mother who was ever on this earth, the mother of Christ, both sinless beings... I don’t know what I’d do without the rosary; it brings me peace, it brings me joy, it brings me Jesus... every day..


37 posted on 10/09/2013 9:35:58 PM PDT by mlizzy (If people spent an hour a week in Eucharistic adoration, abortion would be ended. --Mother Teresa)
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To: Ike

Thank-you and God Bless.


38 posted on 10/10/2013 3:22:01 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: Salvation

WELCOME BACK online.


39 posted on 10/10/2013 3:22:36 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: mlizzy

Got to remember that the last recorded words of Mary was at Cana, in which Jesus did His first miracle and goes by this: “do as He tells you.”

This applies to all who follow Jesus.


40 posted on 10/10/2013 3:29:07 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: Biggirl
Got to remember that the last recorded words of Mary was at Cana, in which Jesus did His first miracle and goes by this: “do as He tells you.”
Mary spoke to St. Dominic about the Rosary; she spoke at Fatima in this regard too.
Exchange between Sister Lucia and Fr. H. Rafferty, August 15, 1950:

Fr.: Did Our Lady of Mount Carmel come at Fatima?
Lucia: Oh, yes Father, she did.
Fr.: Why did Our Lady come that way? … What did she mean?
Lucia: She meant that we should wear the scapular….
Fr.: Everyone in America believes there are four conditions of the Fatima message. First of all, we are to say the rosary every day. Secondly, we are to offer the sacrifices of our daily lives. Thirdly, we are to make communions of reparations on First Saturdays. Finally, we are to consecrate ourselves to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.
Lucia: Oh, there is one more condition–the wearing of the scapular–the symbol of our consecration….
Fr.: Which is more important: the saying of the daily rosary or the wearing of the scapular all of the time?
Lucia: Father, the rosary and the scapular are inseparable. You cannot have one without having the other.

41 posted on 10/10/2013 3:59:02 AM PDT by mlizzy (If people spent an hour a week in Eucharistic adoration, abortion would be ended. --Mother Teresa)
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To: mlizzy

I should have said, last words Mary said in the Bible. Early morning brain trying to wake up.


42 posted on 10/10/2013 6:00:02 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: Biggirl
Early morning brain trying to wake up.
Been there myself; sometimes "all" day.. -lol-

Do you believe it's okay to pray the rosary, or do you think it is a form of worship towards her [and not Jesus]...
43 posted on 10/10/2013 6:14:16 AM PDT by mlizzy (If people spent an hour a week in Eucharistic adoration, abortion would be ended. --Mother Teresa)
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To: vladimir998

“So, you honor the Lord but have no love for Him?”

Did I say that? No. So why are you trying to play word games? As I said, they are two separate things, and the devotion is the issue, not love.

“Yes, there is. Do you love those people or not? Have any pictures of them around the house? Ever celebrate their birthdays, anniversaries, accomplishments, etc.?”

There’s no equivalency. I am not engaging in any acts of religious devotion, no dulia, hyperdulia, latria, or whatever else you want to call it.

“If you can do those things for your family AND LOVE THEM TOO OF COURSE and yet also love Jesus, then you have room for saints in your life too.”

Stop trying to confuse the issue. Love and religious devotion are two separate things. All religious devotion belongs to God, and Scripture states many times that He is a jealous God, and that ALL glory and praise belongs to Him, and Him alone. If you want to argue with that, take it up with God. Arguing with me won’t accomplish anything, because I didn’t make the rules.


44 posted on 10/10/2013 6:16:52 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: mlizzy

Speaking of scapulars, let’s not forget this little nugget:

“On July 16, 1251, Mary appeared to him surrounded by angels and holding in her hands the brown scapular of the Carmelite habit. “This shall be a privilege for you and for all Carmelites: whoever dies clothed in this shall not suffer eternal fire, rather, he shall be saved,” she promised.”

http://www.carmelitedcj.org/saints/scapular.asp

So apparently, the rest of us are suckers for trying to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. We could just wear a magic cloth totem and not have to worry! /s


45 posted on 10/10/2013 6:22:51 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: mlizzy

It is using scripture in prayer.


46 posted on 10/10/2013 6:41:06 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: Boogieman
I’m only human, and there are only so many hours in the day. Once I feel I have sufficiently honored the Lord with all the devotion he deserves, then maybe I will see if I have any left to spare for mere men. So far, I haven’t given Him his due yet.
There are few, if any, Christians who give Christ His "due" daily. One gets bored, or caught up with the many distractions of life. That's the beauty of the angels and saints, or as you call them, "mere men."

For instance, a practicing Catholic, who loves St. Therese of Lisieux...
As she was dying in the convent infirmary, Therese could look out and see the rose bushes blossoming. She loved roses. She had thrown rose petals as a Child before the Blessed Sacrament. As she reflected on her quiet, hidden, and gentle life ending, she believed in faith that God had great things in store for her. She believed that her mission was only beginning as she entered the fullness of life with God. She explained: "After my death, I will let fall a shower of roses. I will spend my heaven doing good upon earth. I will raise up a mighty host of little saints. My mission is to make God loved..." --Society of the Little Flower
might be going for a walk and spot roses growing beautifully in someone's lawn. Her reaction might well be a smile thinking of the "Little Flower," her suffering for Christ, her continual "little way" of loving her spouse. And in the blink of an eye, this woman going for a stroll, is then thinking of Jesus. When there are over 10,000 saints, can you see how one can better keep their mind on Christ all day long?
47 posted on 10/10/2013 7:00:54 AM PDT by mlizzy (If people spent an hour a week in Eucharistic adoration, abortion would be ended. --Mother Teresa)
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To: Boogieman
So apparently, the rest of us are suckers for trying to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.
The scapular would seem odd to anyone not of the Catholic faith, I would imagine. I know I thought it was when I was first dating my boyfriend [now my husband] in 1984. I've never known him to "not" wear a scapular, though. It's very important to him. I wear one too, but not with the same resolve as my husband, however, I'm always working to correct that slight. :) Another wonderful sacramental to wear [or have on hand] is the Miraculous Medal. These are helpers, aids if you will, added insurance, to "fear and trembling." Can anyone ever have too big of a policy?
48 posted on 10/10/2013 7:17:03 AM PDT by mlizzy (If people spent an hour a week in Eucharistic adoration, abortion would be ended. --Mother Teresa)
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To: mlizzy

Good news, mlizzy! I’ve decided NOT to “sully” your post with the obvious. Carry on being laden down with medals of distinction if they make you seem more “insured”. Yours is not a disgrace. Yet.:)


49 posted on 10/10/2013 7:23:15 AM PDT by smvoice (HELP! I'm trapped inside this body and I can't get out!)
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To: mlizzy

Sure, I can think of examples of various people and have them lead me to think of God, but that doesn’t justify me giving those people any religious devotion. Anything good they may have done wasn’t of their own merit anyway, so they don’t deserve any praise or honor for it.


50 posted on 10/10/2013 7:38:32 AM PDT by Boogieman
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