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What if ‘Once Saved, Always Saved’ is Wrong?
The Christian Diarist ^ | October 20, 2013 | JP

Posted on 10/20/2013 11:29:26 AM PDT by CHRISTIAN DIARIST

Once upon a time, Groucho Marx hosted the popular game show, “You Bet Your Life.” At the start of the show, a “secret word” was revealed to the studio audience. If a contestant said the word during the course of the show, a reward would descend from the rafters (a one hundred dollar bill).

Whether we know it or not, we are all, Christians and non-Christians alike, contestants in the spiritual equivalent of “You Bet Your Life.” If we bet wisely, our reward is eternal life. But if we bet foolishly, we condemn ourselves to eternal damnation.

That brings to mind Pascal’s Wager, credited to the seventeenth-century French philosopher, mathematician and physicist Blaise Pascal. He famously posited that every human being bets his or her life on whether or not God exists.

“Let us,” he wrote, “weigh the gain and the loss in wagering that God is. Let us estimate these two chances. If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager, then, without hesitation that He is.”

To put this in terms to which most of us can relate, even if the odds of God’s existence are, say, 1 in 175 million – the odds of winning Powerball on a single ticket – it is worth the wager.

Because, if we have bet on God, and God does not exist, we lose nothing. That is, save for indulging in certain behavior proscribed by God, including sexual promiscuity, idol worship, adultery, homosexuality (and other sexual perversions), thievery, greed, substance abuse, slander and robbery.

But if we bet against the Almighty, and indeed He does exist, we shall be cast into the lake of fire, eternally separated from God. We shall be condemned to place where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Where we will be burned with unquenchable fire. Where we will be tormented day and night forever and forever.

Most of us are rationale. So we heed Pascal’s advice.

Even if we are uncertain there is a God, we hedge our bet. We respond to an altar call at some point in our lives. We say we accept Jesus as our personal Savior. We get baptized.

In so doing, we believe we have ensured our eternal security. We believe that, because we went through the ritual of being “saved,” we have a lifetime “Get Out of Hell Free” card. And that we can live our lives as it pleases us – not God – with impunity.

But what if we are wrong? What if this doctrine of “Once Saved, Always Saved,” espoused by many Godly pastors, preached in many purpose-driven churches, is errant? What if it actually is possible for us to forfeit our eternal salvation, to condemn ourselves to hell, by living brazenly and unrepentantly in defiance of God’s law?

That presents a corollary to Pascal’s wager, one that has not been considered by those who profess themselves Christ followers, but who are not truly leading a Christian life.

Let us call this corollary the Salvation wager, in which we weigh the gain and loss in betting on “Once Saved, Always Saved.”

Those who reject the doctrine, who believe those of us whom the Son sets free, must go and sin no more, must faithfully strive to live in obedience to God, have everything to gain if the doctrine is wrong and nothing to lose if the doctrine is right.

But those who subscribe to the doctrine, who believe that, having been saved, they can commit any and all manner of sin and it doesn’t matter in the eternal scheme of things, have hell to pay if they are wrong.

So what might Pascal advise?

That even if it’s more likely that once a person is saved, there is absolutely nothing they can do to lose their salvation, and that even if the odds are, say, 175 million to 1 that the widely-accepted doctrine of “Once Saved, Always Saved” is right rather than wrong, it still is wise to bet against the doctrine.

Because there are many who claim themselves Christians, who think their names have been written in the book of life, who will appear before the great white throne of judgment, who will find themselves sinners in the hands of an angry God.

They will look to Jesus and say, “Lord, Lord,” hoping He will spare them from punishment. But He will declare to them, “I never knew you, depart from me, you who practice wickedness.”

That’s a warning to those abiding unabashedly and unrepentantly in sin. They have bet their lives on “Once Saved, Always Saved.” And if they are wrong, eternal torment awaits.


TOPICS: Apologetics; General Discusssion; Moral Issues; Theology
KEYWORDS: calvinwaswrong; eternalsecurity; greatwhitethrone; hell; lastjudgment; oncesavedalwayssaved; oncesavedisevil; osas; pascalswager; pimpmywebsite; salvation; sinnomore
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We are all sinners. And if we confess our sins, the Lord is faithful and just to forgive our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

But we cannot, every day, watch porn, get drunk, get stoned, cheat on our spouse, overcharge our customers, chase strange flesh (homosexuality, pedophilia), falsely accuse others or commit other sins and assume God’s automatic forgiveness.

Indeed, after forgiving the woman caught in adultery, the Lord told her, “Go and sin no more.”

1 posted on 10/20/2013 11:29:27 AM PDT by CHRISTIAN DIARIST
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST
“Let us,” he wrote, “weigh the gain and the loss in wagering that God is. Let us estimate these two chances. If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager, then, without hesitation that He is.”

But Pascal doesn't specify which of the 115,867 gods to be found in the various pantheons of Mankind we should believe in: Brahma, Odin, Zeus, Allah, Ahura Mazda...

The chances are overwhelmingly high that one will choose the wrong god to believe in. Fortunately, only a few gods - like that of the Christian religion - casts non-believers into a lake of fire for making the wrong educated guess.

Regards,

2 posted on 10/20/2013 11:39:03 AM PDT by alexander_busek (Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

“Indeed, after forgiving the woman caught in adultery, the Lord told her, “Go and sin no more.” “

Strange that you should mention that. Just heard a sermon from a ‘fill in’ pastor and she cited that piece of scripture in expressing His love, but conveiniently forgot to mention the “sin no more” aspect.


3 posted on 10/20/2013 11:41:23 AM PDT by Carthego delenda est
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

There is a fundamental difference between the Arminian concept of “once saved always saved” and the reformed concept of “perseverance of the saints”. Both conclude that salvation cannot be lost but differ at a basic level regarding the foundation of that truth.


4 posted on 10/20/2013 11:46:27 AM PDT by armydoc
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

I think the doctrine of “once saved always saved” is actually true, and there is nothing we can do to earn our salvation. I just think that — as my pastor said in church this morning in so many words “if your faith hasn’t changed you, it hasn’t saved you.” In other words, if there is no evidence of conversion in the form of a changed life (not a perfect life but one always striving to be more Christ-like), then there has likely not been a conversion.


5 posted on 10/20/2013 11:48:27 AM PDT by lquist1
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST
What if? It is wrong. Salvation is the starting line - not the finish line.
6 posted on 10/20/2013 11:52:42 AM PDT by Hoodat (BENGHAZI - 4 KILLED, 2 MIA)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

Grace


7 posted on 10/20/2013 11:52:57 AM PDT by svcw (Not 'hope and change' but 'dopes in chains' obama's America)
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To: armydoc

Paul described salvation as a rebirth, a change of heart from the old man to the new man. Continuing to sdin as before salvation is not salvation. Unless the saved perosn is fundamentally changed by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit there is no salvation. It is not a crap shoot. It is a total sacrifice of self to Christ’s redemption. In order for the new man to be born the old man must die.


8 posted on 10/20/2013 11:53:35 AM PDT by Louis Foxwell (This is a wake up call. Join the Sultan Knish ping list.)
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To: lquist1

Another way of looking at that is by thinking of ‘being saved’ as something that happens after we die.


9 posted on 10/20/2013 11:54:45 AM PDT by Hoodat (BENGHAZI - 4 KILLED, 2 MIA)
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To: Hoodat

Exactly. I have never understood the concept of once saved. It’s wrong.


10 posted on 10/20/2013 11:54:56 AM PDT by 98ZJ USMC
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST
As soon as a writer utilizes the fallacy of the undistributed middle, there is little reason to give them much more credulity: "But those who subscribe to the doctrine, who believe that, having been saved, they can commit any and all manner of sin ..."

The argument may sound like Christian reasoning, but it is just another way for the accuser of the Brethren to sow doubt in the minds of humans. But you must admit, it is a clever way to spittle in the 'doubting God's Promises' ploy and push the 'by my works and Jesus's blood I am saved', very Mormonistic argument.

11 posted on 10/20/2013 11:56:52 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: Louis Foxwell
Paul described salvation as a rebirth, a change of heart from the old man to the new man. Continuing to sdin as before salvation is not salvation. Unless the saved perosn is fundamentally changed by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit there is no salvation. It is not a crap shoot. It is a total sacrifice of self to Christ’s redemption. In order for the new man to be born the old man must die.

So, are you saying that, after salvation, one ceases to sin, and so remains "saved?" Or that one does NOT cease to sin, but is "saved" anyway?

Regards,

12 posted on 10/20/2013 11:57:10 AM PDT by alexander_busek (Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST
It's pretty much what I have always believed. If I am wrong and there is nothing, then I will never know. But if I am right and God exists, then I have a fairly good chance of avoiding the darkness.

It's a pretty safe bet for me because I really don't think I would like living the way some do or treating others the way some do.

13 posted on 10/20/2013 11:57:21 AM PDT by McGavin999
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To: Carthego delenda est
and she cited

I think I see the problem.

14 posted on 10/20/2013 11:59:54 AM PDT by PAR35
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To: alexander_busek

“So, are you saying that, after salvation, one ceases to sin, and so remains “saved?” Or that one does NOT cease to sin, but is “saved” anyway?

Regards,”


Obviously it is impossible to stop sinning, though the fact remains that the Christian is entirely changed from what he once was before:

“For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?”
(Rom 7:14-24)


15 posted on 10/20/2013 12:03:17 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: alexander_busek

I am saying precisely what Jesus and Paul said.


16 posted on 10/20/2013 12:08:09 PM PDT by Louis Foxwell (This is a wake up call. Join the Sultan Knish ping list.)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

That “Once saved, always saved” has always been wrong. I should think the experience of the Israelites would easily demonstrate that.


17 posted on 10/20/2013 12:09:13 PM PDT by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
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To: miele man

bump for later read


18 posted on 10/20/2013 12:12:16 PM PDT by miele man
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

Down To The River To Pray - Alison Krauss

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSif77IVQdY&feature=related


19 posted on 10/20/2013 12:13:11 PM PDT by Zeneta
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

Pascal’s wager is stupid, it’s based on the premise that you can fool God.
You can lose your salvation, if during the tribulation you are saved but then take the mark, you’re done for.


20 posted on 10/20/2013 12:14:56 PM PDT by Lx (Do you like it? Do you like it, Scott? I call it, "Mr. & Mrs. Tenorman Chili.")
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

All -past and present- that have, profess and foster FAITH in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ have their names written in the book of life.

God, on the other hand, has the eraser.


21 posted on 10/20/2013 12:15:26 PM PDT by Cletus.D.Yokel (Catastrophic Anthropogenic Climate Alterations - The acronym explains the science.)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST
What if it actually is possible for us to forfeit our eternal salvation, to condemn ourselves to hell, by living brazenly and unrepentantly in defiance of God’s law?

Our salvation is determined by our faith, not by how we live. We do, however (imo), still have the free will to deny Christ after we have received Him and thus give up our salvation.

22 posted on 10/20/2013 12:16:05 PM PDT by MulberryDraw (That which cannot be paid, won't be paid.)
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To: MulberryDraw

Our faith and how we live are intertwined

The faithful live very differently from the unfaithful


23 posted on 10/20/2013 12:19:07 PM PDT by GeronL
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To: alexander_busek

>>The chances are overwhelmingly high that one will choose the wrong god to believe in. Fortunately, only a few gods - like that of the Christian religion - casts non-believers into a lake of fire for making the wrong educated guess.

No, it doesn’t. They die and go to sleep. Read Revelation chapter 20 and you will see that they are given a chance.


24 posted on 10/20/2013 12:19:32 PM PDT by Bryanw92 (Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: MulberryDraw

Our salvation is determined by our faith, not by how we live. We do, however (imo), still have the free will to deny Christ after we have received Him and thus give up our salvation.


IMHO, faith has NO value without “Free Will”.


25 posted on 10/20/2013 12:20:47 PM PDT by Zeneta
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To: MulberryDraw

“Our salvation is determined by our faith, not by how we live. We do, however (imo), still have the free will to deny Christ after we have received Him and thus give up our salvation.”


It does not follow, since all those who are given by the Father to the Son, do come to the Son infallibly (John 6:37). Therefore if you once confessed Christ, and then leave as an apostate, in reality you were not given by the Father to the Son, but are, in fact, a reprobate who was “never of us,” and must leave to manifest that you were “not of us.”

1Jn_2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

It’s also worth noting that if you are GIVEN by the Father, that you should have faith in the Son, then your faith did not precede the giving, but was caused by the giving. Therefore, it is as the scripture says,

Joh_15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

The latter part of this verse also explains the necessity of good works, which do not earn salvation, but are the consequence of salvation.


26 posted on 10/20/2013 12:22:10 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: Zeneta

“IMHO, faith has NO value without “Free Will””


It has no value when it comes to boasting about how you saved yourself, and persevered of yourself. The value is in confessing that you are utterly empty in and of yourself to save yourself, and thus, while you are valueless, yet God still loved you despite your works and faithlessness.

2Co_3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;


27 posted on 10/20/2013 12:24:07 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: lquist1

Agreed. That’s why I prefer the term “perseverance of the saints” to “once saved, always saved.”


28 posted on 10/20/2013 12:25:22 PM PDT by ReformationFan
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

I will never try to fool God. Hopefully He knows that too.

Deuteronomy 4:19 & Malachi 1:11


29 posted on 10/20/2013 12:26:33 PM PDT by onedoug
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To: PAR35

Yep.


30 posted on 10/20/2013 12:28:27 PM PDT by ealgeone (obama, border)
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To: Hoodat

“Another way of looking at that is by thinking of ‘being saved’ as something that happens after we die.”

Well, not exactly. I think someone actually needs to be saved — become born again, accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior, however you want to put it — BEFORE they die. Once you die, it’s too late to make a choice.

I will agree, however, that the manifestation our your decision (whether to accept Jesus or not) “happens” after we die.


31 posted on 10/20/2013 12:28:47 PM PDT by lquist1
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

So it’s cool if you don’t actually believe in God, well maybe you did once? So you live in obedience to God out of fear, but only to hedge a bet, believing the price small here on earth due to your personal nature. For somebody blessed with a placid personality it would be easy to avoid sin.

But what if you are blessed with a ribald and rebellious nature that wishes to push every envelope? If this person beats himself into submission, he pays a higher price than the placid person. Is this person more or less saved with greater struggle?

A person is born in Saudi Arabia. This man is possessed with a conformist personality. He hedges his bets, and diligently seeks not to offend his fellow man. Does his prayers, makes the haj on his 31st birthday. Obediently beats his wife when she deserves it. Is this person any more or less a sinner than the conformist born in Midland Texas to christian pig farmers who sit as a deacon in the local 1st Baptist church?

Suppose a man is born in the plains of Mongolia. His gods are thunder, lighting, horse. He can’t really be sure but he wants to tame thunder lighting and horse. Is this person any less a sinner?


32 posted on 10/20/2013 12:28:57 PM PDT by DariusBane (Liberty and Risk. Flip sides of the same coin. So how much risk will YOU accept?)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST
We are all sinners. And if we confess our sins, the Lord is faithful and just to forgive our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. But we cannot, every day, watch porn, get drunk, get stoned, cheat on our spouse, overcharge our customers, chase strange flesh (homosexuality, pedophilia), falsely accuse others or commit other sins and assume God’s automatic forgiveness.

And now we know what Arminians and Pelagians think that Monergists do every day.

33 posted on 10/20/2013 12:29:14 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (Just a common, ordinary, simple savior of America's destiny.)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

Ephesians tells us we are sealed up by the Holy Spirit when we accept Christ as Savior. No where does it ever say we are unsealed either by Christ or anything we “do” that’s bad.


34 posted on 10/20/2013 12:30:31 PM PDT by ealgeone (obama, border)
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To: Alex Murphy

LOL from a fellow Monergist as my screen name suggests.


35 posted on 10/20/2013 12:32:45 PM PDT by ReformationFan
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

Two thoughts.

“Pride comes before the Fall”.

And

This song:

Please set aside the artists more recent shortcomings as it should not diminish the content.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIHwZO8Hnxk

I’ve exhausted every possible solution
I’ve tried every game there is to play
In this search for Christ-like perfection
I’m convinced, I’ve only left my God ashamed

I cry, I wonder can He hear my despair
Afraid to lift my hands, afraid He doesn’t care
And if He answers and I fall again
Can I still be His daughter?
Can I still depend on Him?

When I’m down, I search every mistake
I’m looking for new regrets
Sometimes, I forget, I forget
That His grace is sufficient for me
That it’s deeper and wider than I can conceive

His grace is sufficient for me
My convictions seem to fade with desperation
My hope declines with each and every tear
My sin an anchor and this grace just an illusion

The gavel’s heavy and justice is near
Up comes the light and finds the stains on my hands
Up comes my pride, I hide
I know He won’t understand

‘Cause it’s deeper than deep and it’s wider than wide
Why did I ever doubt? Now, I’m dying inside
His grace is sufficient for me
His grace, His grace is sufficient

Songwriters
KNAPP, JENNIFER LYNN


36 posted on 10/20/2013 12:34:26 PM PDT by Zeneta
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To: Zeneta

I don’t understand how those two thoughts are a reply to anything I said.


37 posted on 10/20/2013 12:35:42 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: DariusBane

John 14:6. Jesus declares I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through Me.

Entrance to Heaven is only throught Him and Him alone.


38 posted on 10/20/2013 12:36:16 PM PDT by ealgeone (obama, border)
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To: ealgeone

So the poor Mongolian is screwed. If i had been born on the plains 450 years ago, i would have done as taught, worshiped fire, lightning and horse. To bad for me I guess.


39 posted on 10/20/2013 12:38:10 PM PDT by DariusBane (Liberty and Risk. Flip sides of the same coin. So how much risk will YOU accept?)
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To: DariusBane

“So the poor Mongolian is screwed. If i had been born on the plains 450 years ago, i would have done as taught, worshiped fire, lightning and horse. To bad for me I guess.”


That might still be the case!

“As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.”
(Rom 9:13-15)


40 posted on 10/20/2013 12:40:08 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST
Because, if we have bet on God, and God does not exist, we lose nothing.

By the parameters Pascal has set there his conclusion is illogical and wrong.
You have lost a lifetime of seeking the truth and living it.

41 posted on 10/20/2013 12:41:21 PM PDT by TigersEye (Stupid is a Progressive disease.)
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"Parable of the Lost Son" is incompatible with "Once saved , Always saved".

Two sons are with the Father, one leaves, this son descends into sin, realizes his mistake: "Father I have sinned against heaven and you".

Rises from his sin:So he got up and went to his father.

“When he came to his senses, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired servants have food to spare, and here I am starving to death! 18 I will set out and go back to my father and say to him:
Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. 19 I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired servants.’ 20 So he got up and went to his father.

The Father forgives him, for although he was with the Father before, the Father states:
For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.

Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let’s have a feast and celebrate. 24 For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’

---------------------------------------------------------------

Luke 15:11-32

New International Version (NIV) The Parable of the Lost Son 11 Jesus continued: “There was a man who had two sons. 12 The younger one said to his father, ‘Father, give me my share of the estate.’ So he divided his property between them. 13 “Not long after that, the younger son got together all he had, set off for a distant country and there squandered his wealth in wild living. 14 After he had spent everything, there was a severe famine in that whole country, and he began to be in need. 15 So he went and hired himself out to a citizen of that country, who sent him to his fields to feed pigs. 16 He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything. 17 “When he came to his senses, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired servants have food to spare, and here I am starving to death! 18 I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. 19 I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired servants.’ 20 So he got up and went to his father. “But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him. 21 “The son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’ 22 “But the father said to his servants, ‘Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. 23 Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let’s have a feast and celebrate. 24 For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ So they began to celebrate. 25 “Meanwhile, the older son was in the field. When he came near the house, he heard music and dancing. 26 So he called one of the servants and asked him what was going on. 27 ‘Your brother has come,’ he replied, ‘and your father has killed the fattened calf because he has him back safe and sound.’ 28 “The older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him. 29 But he answered his father, ‘Look! All these years I’ve been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. 30 But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him!’ 31 “‘My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. 32 But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’”
42 posted on 10/20/2013 12:42:28 PM PDT by RBStealth (--raised by wolves, disciplined and educated by nuns.)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST
i never saw belief in God as a get out of jail free card... if you live your life as someone unworthy of a reward i see no reason you will get one.

mercy for the guilty is torture for the innocent, raping and or murdering children then saying God forgive me is not a get out hell card to go and be at God's side on equal standing with those innocents you raped and murdered, but that's just me

43 posted on 10/20/2013 12:42:36 PM PDT by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -vvv- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

If my ancestors had stayed in now Godless Scotland, I would not have been lucky enough to have had my seeds carried on a Conestoga wagon, and fortune allowed me to be born in the Bible belt to evangelical parents.

I am going to buy a lottery ticket now.


44 posted on 10/20/2013 12:43:18 PM PDT by DariusBane (Liberty and Risk. Flip sides of the same coin. So how much risk will YOU accept?)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

Is this similar to only Women and little boys need to attend church?


45 posted on 10/20/2013 12:46:56 PM PDT by eyedigress ((zOld storm chaser from the west)/ ?s)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

If it’s wrong, everyone’s in big trouble, because there is no clear delineation in scripture as to when/how one loses their salvation - so no one will ever know.

The delineation is so clear: faith. “THIS IS THE WORK OF GOD - that you BELIEVE in Him whom He sent.”

The real question is, if one continues to live in overt sin, do they really have faith? When Christ truly is living in the believer, the life is changed. Many say they believe, but their lives prove otherwise.

If there is no fruit, there is no Christ-life within. So simple.


46 posted on 10/20/2013 12:47:57 PM PDT by Arlis (.)
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To: DariusBane

“If my ancestors had stayed in now Godless Scotland, I would not have been lucky enough to have had my seeds carried on a Conestoga wagon, and fortune allowed me to be born in the Bible belt to evangelical parents.

I am going to buy a lottery ticket now.”


Even the cast of the lot is under the authority and control of God:

Pro_16:33 The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD.


47 posted on 10/20/2013 12:48:26 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: Chode

In truth, every man in his heart wishes mercy for themselves, and justice for everybody else.


48 posted on 10/20/2013 12:48:48 PM PDT by DariusBane (Liberty and Risk. Flip sides of the same coin. So how much risk will YOU accept?)
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To: DariusBane
and sometimes the answer is no...
49 posted on 10/20/2013 12:50:30 PM PDT by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -vvv- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

So God created Souls he wished to destroy? We are “selected” to be chosen, and some are “selected” to be destroyed? But lets substitute “created” for “selected”.

I am not trying to be argumentative, and i have no answers other scripture quoting which I can do as well as most and better than some.


50 posted on 10/20/2013 12:51:33 PM PDT by DariusBane (Liberty and Risk. Flip sides of the same coin. So how much risk will YOU accept?)
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