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Why Do Non-Catholics Want So Desperately for the Catholic Church to Change Its Teachings?
Public Catholic at Patheos ^ | October 29, 2013 | Rebecca Hamilton

Posted on 10/30/2013 8:09:25 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o

It’s fascinating, the amount of emotion at least some non-Catholics seem to have about Catholic teaching. I can tell you that when I was in the anti-God period of my life, I did not give one whit what any church taught. I paid them the ultimate diss of not giving a care.

But from what I’ve seen on this blog, there are a large number of people who claim to be atheist or some what-not version of what I was in my anti-God period, who appear to think about Christianity, the Catholic Church in particular, 24/7. They appear to be, in a word, obsessed with the minutiae of Catholic teaching.

If you doubt this, go to some of the atheist blogs. All they ever talk about is God, Christian teaching, and the Bible.

There are a few issues in particulate that really rev their engines. They are:

When someone confronts them with the obvious inconsistency implied in their obsessive demands that a Church they claim is a stupid cult alter teachings that they claim are based on a myth, they start denouncing Catholics for using their rights as American citizens to vote and advocate according to their consciences.

It’s as if it offends them that Catholics have the same rights to vote, free assembly and to petition their government as other citizens. I suppose it’s true that it does offend them. Because one takeaway I get from reading the comments from most (not all, there are a couple of clear exceptions) of these people is that they are, at base, bullies.

I also think that the core reason they keep coming around here to drop off their load of insults (most of the truly insulting ones never see the light of day on this blog) is that they are either mental on some level, or, whether they will admit it or not, they are God haunted people who desperately want what the Church offers, which is peace with God, eternal life and a spiritual home. It’s just that they can’t bring themselves to go to God on God’s terms. They want Him — meaning HIs Church — to come to them on their terms.

These are people who refuse to be forgiven for their sins. What they want is to have the Almighty ratify their sins. They are obsessed with finding, not absolution, but vindication, from a Church they claim they believe is a fraud.

However, that’s just my reaction. Yours may be different. I’m going to throw this open for discussion.

Why do you think nonbelievers are so obsessed with the Catholic Church?


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Religion & Culture; Skeptics/Seekers
KEYWORDS: abortion; atheists; communion; eucharist; homosexualagenda; prolife; romancatholic
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Keep in mind that this is mostly about agnostics/atheists and their ongoing anti-religious OCD's.

I have noticed that to nonbelievers, all religion is in their rifle sights, but Christianity is usually the main target, and Catholicism the bull's-eye.

Class, discuss!

1 posted on 10/30/2013 8:09:25 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o
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To: Mrs. Don-o; Tax-chick; GregB; Berlin_Freeper; SumProVita; narses; bboop; SevenofNine; ...

Catholic ping! Your thoughts?


2 posted on 10/30/2013 8:13:15 AM PDT by NYer ("The wise man is the one who can save his soul. - St. Nimatullah Al-Hardini)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Keep in mind that this is mostly about agnostics/atheists and their ongoing anti-religious OCD's.

Also notice that the one religion which is most opposed to their ideals (gay marriage? Nope, stone them. Premarital sex? She gets a stoning. Intoxicants? Stoning, and not the fun type. Driving while female? Stoning, and her car too) is the one they treat with kid gloves because they share a common enemy.

3 posted on 10/30/2013 8:13:27 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (Everyone get online for Obamacare on 10/1. Overload the system and crash it hard!)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Why do gays so want society to endorse their behavior?


4 posted on 10/30/2013 8:15:43 AM PDT by polymuser
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To: Mrs. Don-o

I think it’s because non-religious types, who tend to be liberal, want to denigrate religion and religious influence.

They don’t want any prominent people talking against abortion on demand, or talking against homosexual marriage. They don’t want any prominent voices being heard on any moral issues at all. They want to be liberal and secular. They want to shut down discussion of moral questions. They want to be amoral, and want the rest of society structured so they don’t have to hear about morality.

They want to intimidate religions so that they stay out of the public arena, and so that they don’t have to be exposed to any errant religious/moral message. These same people have no problems with very permissive TV shows and movies, and are unconcerned if anyone who is offended by those being exposed to that. But these same liberal people are afraid of anyone hearing any sort of religious or moral message anywhere.


5 posted on 10/30/2013 8:16:23 AM PDT by Dilbert San Diego
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To: Mrs. Don-o

John 15:19


6 posted on 10/30/2013 8:18:24 AM PDT by NYer ("The wise man is the one who can save his soul. - St. Nimatullah Al-Hardini)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Because the destruction of Godly religion is central to the adoption of governmental religion. What better way to destroy the church than by elevating man’s (or the euphemistic ‘societal’) opinion over the actual teachings of the church?


7 posted on 10/30/2013 8:18:54 AM PDT by MortMan (Disarming the sheep only emboldens the wolves.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

The Catholic Church has a collective conscience and some people, so used to ignoring their own (the conscience being that spark of the witness of God), that when they see it they are constantly reminded of God and they don’t like it.


8 posted on 10/30/2013 8:20:54 AM PDT by Slyfox (Satan's goal is to rub out the image of God he sees in the face of every human.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Ummm, my church doesn’t really care much, one way or another what the Catholic Church teaches; we concern ourselves with Scripture.


9 posted on 10/30/2013 8:22:52 AM PDT by Mr. Lucky
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Keep in mind that this is mostly about agnostics/atheists and their ongoing anti-religious OCD's.
If a true agnostic was anti-religion, would that not make them athiests?
10 posted on 10/30/2013 8:23:58 AM PDT by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

IMO, chips on their shoulders the size of Kentucky because they refuse to forgive others [who do not ask to be forgiven]. They also are afraid to admit [or think seriously about] their own sins, because they are selfish [and bogged down with the muck]. And hence, they are lonely as well, and disparaging of a faith that forgives sins (through Jesus), which is evident on its good peoples.


11 posted on 10/30/2013 8:24:06 AM PDT by mlizzy (If people spent an hour a week in Eucharistic adoration, abortion would be ended. --Mother Teresa)
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To: Mrs. Don-o; NYer
Why Do Non-Catholics Want So Desperately for the Catholic Church to Change Its Teachings?

That's easy. Hate.

12 posted on 10/30/2013 8:24:46 AM PDT by Old Sarge (And Good Evening, Agent Smith, wherever you are...)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

What the Catholic Church teaches or not has not consequence to me. Power to them. Stand by their faith.


13 posted on 10/30/2013 8:24:53 AM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: polymuser

Remove God and they can fulfill the first tenet of Satanism - “Do what thou wilt” without any consequences. Its just the first step in their plan to make homosexuality and pedophelia “normal”. There is a reason God views homosexuality as an abomnation. They are making it more and more clear every day.


14 posted on 10/30/2013 8:25:53 AM PDT by jsanders2001
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To: Mrs. Don-o

For the same reason they want Jewish people to not circumsize their sons.


15 posted on 10/30/2013 8:28:11 AM PDT by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

In my opinion, this is one manifestation of the spiritual war going on now.

They (satan’s minions) go after the Catholic Church with a vengence because it is the Church that has its beginnings in Christ Jesus and the Apostle Peter. The real McCoy, if you will.

Fact is, if everyone followed the teachings of the Catholic Church faithfully we would have almost none of the problems we face today. I mention this often in my personal life and although it annoys many, nobody can refute it, not even the ungodly.


16 posted on 10/30/2013 8:30:55 AM PDT by MichaelCorleone (Jesus Christ is not a religion. He's the Truth.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Answer: Culpable deniability when the time comes to meet their maker and be held to account by Jesus. (A lot of CINOs too, sadly)


17 posted on 10/30/2013 8:32:41 AM PDT by golas1964
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To: MichaelCorleone
Fact is, if everyone followed the teachings of the Catholic Church faithfully we would have almost none of the problems we face today.
Yes, exactly!
18 posted on 10/30/2013 8:34:06 AM PDT by mlizzy (If people spent an hour a week in Eucharistic adoration, abortion would be ended. --Mother Teresa)
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To: polymuser
As Gertrude Stein said, they are guilty because they know their acts are vile. It drives them to drugs and drink.

A new take on Stein's comment is that gay men think they can unload their guilt if they can get world religions to endorse their acts.

19 posted on 10/30/2013 8:35:19 AM PDT by miss marmelstein (Richard Lives Yet!)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

You are spot-on in your analysis of the reason and atheist is obsessed with the Catholic Church. It is related to the reason that the Dem party treats abortion as a sacrament. The Dem party erases the sin and provides a place for all the sinners to feel comfort in numbers. That pesky Catholic Church lingers off in the distance, clearly identifying abortion as a wrong.

That is extremely stressful for the person who has had an abortion. In the back of her mind, she can’t quite erase the uncertainty about her action—the Catholic Church can be a convenient thing to blame for that lingering distress.

Atheists may have a little uncertainty about Catholic teachings, wondering why so many people for so many centuries have continued to believe. The atheist does not want to be wrong on this one—it has implications for eternity, the afterlife and the soul.

Then again, it is popular to have a foil, that is, a stereotyped enemy that is a compendium of what you are not. It makes possible a “me versus them” simple view of how to live a life and what to believe. It gives the atheist something to use to strengthen bonds with other atheists.


20 posted on 10/30/2013 8:36:06 AM PDT by iacovatx (Conservatism is the political center--it is not "right" of center)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

In my experience, there are several camps. The first is made of atheist of good will. They merely lack the faith, and don’t really seem to know or care what any particular sect believes.

The second camp is of militant atheists, who enjoy trumpeting the superiority of their skeptical minds and devotion to what they misstate as science.

The final camp of Catholic-obsessed people are those who define themselves and religious practices as to how they are against Catholicism. Instead of stating what they for, they spend their time talking about what they are against.

I have little interest in the beliefs of other religions, except in their sociological context. What person or group chooses to believe is their own business.


21 posted on 10/30/2013 8:37:53 AM PDT by SpirituTuo
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To: Mrs. Don-o

An even better question to ask is why do Catholics want so desperately for Evangelicals to “Swim The Tiber”?


22 posted on 10/30/2013 8:40:47 AM PDT by fatboy (This protestant will have no part in the ecumenical movement)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

I think their lack of belief and at the same time their desire to be a part of something larger than them has them in a state of, if I can’t be a part of it then I will work to destroy it.
I live in the Bay Area and the arise of “atheist” churches is a testament to their “logical”thinking.


23 posted on 10/30/2013 8:42:37 AM PDT by peteyd (A dog may bite you in the ass,but it will never stab you in the back.)
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To: polymuser
Why do gays so want society to endorse their behavior?

Because they are self-loathing narcissists. Their self-image is of maximum importance. They are not 100% comfortable in their own skin. Deep down, they know they are part of something that has been considered an abomination in most civilized societies from time immemorial. However, they crave acceptance and validation from the rest of us so they can accept and validate themselves. The only way to do that is to silence the voices that speak out against them.

Of course, some gays are not self-loathing narcissists. Some are comfortable with who they are and don't care what anyone thinks. These are the ones who keep a low profile and have a "live and let live" outlook.

24 posted on 10/30/2013 8:43:31 AM PDT by Sans-Culotte ( Pray for Obama- Psalm 109:8)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Other than their teachings aginst the Rule of Law and against our country’s right to Sovereignty and therefore the right to control its own borders. I have no problem with Catholic Church.


25 posted on 10/30/2013 8:51:07 AM PDT by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: fatboy

Unfortunately, I haven’t seen or heard many Catholics making that case.

What I have heard on Catholic radio and websites, are spirited defense of Catholic teaching, as well teaching what Catholics actually believe.

Bishop Fulton Sheen made this statement, “There are not more than 100 people in the world who truly hate the Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they perceive to be the Catholic Church.”

His follow up is also important “ ....As a matter of fact, if we Catholics believed all of the untruths and lies which were said against the Church, we probably would hate the Church a thousand times more than they do.”


26 posted on 10/30/2013 8:54:17 AM PDT by SpirituTuo
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To: oh8eleven
"If a true agnostic was anti-religion, would that not make them athiests?"

Well, that's an interesting question. It sure isn't true of all atheists/agnostics. (My father was an a/a, but was not a all hostile towards the Church.) I suppose those particular agnostics and atheists who have OCD's against religion should more propely be called "anti-theists."

Beats me why a person who isn't sure abut "a god." or absolutely disbelieves in the existence of "any god," would be so convolutedly preoccupied with what the Catholic Church (for instance) is up to.

I've heard people who "say" they God is non-existent, whose behavior suggests rather that they hate Him. Do they get all tied up in knots about Thor?

27 posted on 10/30/2013 8:57:51 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (When the heart is pure, it can't help loving, because it has found the source of love, which is God.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o; NYer

IMO: they have a basic need to have others to endorse their beliefs and to have the Catholic Church, their major nemisis do that, will make them feel good and destroy Christianity at the same time.


28 posted on 10/30/2013 8:57:52 AM PDT by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: Jewbacca
"For the same reason they want Jewish people to not circumsize their sons."

Yeah, isn't that strange?

No so much today, but for many generations most baby (gentile) boys were circumcised for health reasons ---it was considered preventative for the transmission of certain infections, as I understand it. Are the anti's against that, too?

29 posted on 10/30/2013 9:01:10 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (When the heart is pure, it can't help loving, because it has found the source of love, which is God.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Catholics have the most visible organizational structure; most people know who the Pope is, and even cardinals and some bishops are in the public eye. These “bullies” go after Catholics because they’re easily seen, certainly among the most influential, and probably have the most assets world-wide. They also know that if they can persucute and take down Catholics, they can take down any church.


30 posted on 10/30/2013 9:02:02 AM PDT by Lou L (Health "insurance" is NOT the same as health "care")
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To: miss marmelstein

Gertrude Stein said that? Hmmm....


31 posted on 10/30/2013 9:02:07 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (When the heart is pure, it can't help loving, because it has found the source of love, which is God.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Too much mirror?

As a non-Cathoic, I affirm their right to believe whatever they wish.

[Yes, much of it is unBiblical and added in later centuries. That is their right and I support their right to believe as they wish.]


32 posted on 10/30/2013 9:03:25 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (I grew up in America. I now live in the United States..)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

As a nonCatholic Christian, I have no interest in Catholics changing their beliefs. In fact, the thought of them doing so is a little scary to me. As one of the largest branches of the Christian faith, if they were to start to compromise of capitulate on their Catechism, it would be devastating to all of Christianity. Can Catholics do better at some things? Of course, all of Christianity can do better at most things.


33 posted on 10/30/2013 9:03:49 AM PDT by CityCenter (Resist Obamacare!)
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To: fatboy
"An even better question to ask is why do Catholics want so desperately for Evangelicals to “Swim The Tiber”? "

Uh... part of the overall plan for world conquest?

I have other sheep which are not of this fold. I must bring them also. They will hear My Voice, and there will be One Flock, and One Shepherd (John 10:14-16)


34 posted on 10/30/2013 9:12:32 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (When the heart is pure, it can't help loving, because it has found the source of love, which is God.)
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To: Kartographer
"Other than their teachings aginst the Rule of Law and against our country’s right to Sovereignty and therefore the right to control its own borders. I have no problem with Catholic Church."

Oh.

Well then, we need you --- you especially --- in the Knights of Columbus.

Catholic Catechism
Para 2241
Political authorities, for the sake of the common good for which they are responsible, may make the exercise of the right to immigrate subject to various juridical conditions, especially with regard to the immigrants' duties toward their country of adoption. Immigrants are obliged to respect with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them, to obey its laws and to assist in carrying civic burdens.


35 posted on 10/30/2013 9:19:39 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (When the heart is pure, it can't help loving, because it has found the source of love, which is God.)
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To: jsanders2001

There is no moral relativism...Satan is always there to fill the gap when Christians abandon their faith. Catholics are the prime target because they stand stalwart against evil!


36 posted on 10/30/2013 9:20:08 AM PDT by gr8eman (Bandying nice with wannabe commies is over! You're either for freedom or you're not!)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Um . . . 'cause they smell blood after seeing it cave in on Galileo and Darwin?

Just sayin'!

37 posted on 10/30/2013 9:20:14 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (The Left: speaking power to truth since Shevirat HaKelim.)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

Why, thank you!


38 posted on 10/30/2013 9:22:03 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (When the heart is pure, it can't help loving, because it has found the source of love, which is God.)
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To: CityCenter
You sound amiable as well as reasonable.

(Eyes darting quickly from side to side):

How'd you stumble into the Religion Forum?

39 posted on 10/30/2013 9:24:05 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (When the heart is pure, it can't help loving, because it has found the source of love, which is God.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
Oh, ZC, you're just saying that to be provocative!

(Note to Religion Moderator: that's not "mind reading," it's just teasing!)

40 posted on 10/30/2013 9:26:26 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (When the heart is pure, it can't help loving, because it has found the source of love, which is God.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Are we talking of World of Churches Christnity that what I sound like to me

They losing membership they are getting old their young people are turn off by their teachings


41 posted on 10/30/2013 9:28:42 AM PDT by SevenofNine (We are Freepers, all your media bases belong to us ,resistance is futile)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Oh, ZC, you're just saying that to be provocative!

(Note to Religion Moderator: that's not "mind reading," it's just teasing!)

You got me. Guilty. Unfortunately for Catholic claims of changelessness, it's also true. I advise any religion out there that claims to never change to . . . well . . . never change.

42 posted on 10/30/2013 9:30:47 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (The Left: speaking power to truth since Shevirat HaKelim.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Simple answer is this:

Nearly all Christian denominations are groups that have broken off from Catholicism over disagreements with their cannon, so they are all founded on the Catholic Church is wrong, so any change to the Catholic Cannon is viewed as they were right all along.

End of the day that’s it.


43 posted on 10/30/2013 9:31:21 AM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: Mrs. Don-o

I read most of the religious posts that I see go by. I am particularaly interested in the Catholic v. Protestant posts and the posts about the new Pope. I really dislike the flame-throwing that happens in some of them, but I love to see how well people can defend their faith. That is where I learn the most.


44 posted on 10/30/2013 9:32:04 AM PDT by CityCenter (Resist Obamacare!)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

“Why do you think nonbelievers are so obsessed with the Catholic Church?”

I don’t think they are. To me it looks more like the Catholic church is obsessed with itself.


45 posted on 10/30/2013 9:33:48 AM PDT by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

So you So you deny that the Catholic Church (not all Catholics not Catholic organizations, BUT THE CHURCH itself) aids, abets, protects, incourages, welcomes and lobbies (amnesty) for illegal immigrants and illegal immigration?

If so than their no more need for discussion for you are delusional as the Church has repeatedly made clear of their stand.


46 posted on 10/30/2013 9:34:11 AM PDT by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: Mrs. Don-o
My father was an a/a
Sorry, but he couldn't be both and agnostic and an atheist. That was the point of my original question.
47 posted on 10/30/2013 9:45:04 AM PDT by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

agnostics = no knowledge (from the Greek?) from the word gnostic

atheists = no God (from the Greek?) from the word theist


48 posted on 10/30/2013 9:45:16 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: NYer

HEY NYER look what I found on Al Jazeera english news

Apparently USA NSA spy on the Vatican leading up to Pope Francis election

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2013/10/us-spied-vatican-run-up-conclave-2013103015834540291.html


49 posted on 10/30/2013 9:54:53 AM PDT by SevenofNine (We are Freepers, all your media bases belong to us ,resistance is futile)
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To: Mrs. Don-o; Jewbacca

From what I have read, the anti-circumcision zealots object to circumcision for its (demonstrable) health benefits just as they do to circumcision as a religious ordinance. There was wailing and gnashing of teeth (and quashing of the publicity) when studies showed that circumcision reduced the likelihood of transmission of HIV by more than half.

Interesting questions are raised, the sort that distract us from our search for the missing hot-glue sticks. Is the “prime mover” here anti-Semitism, bleeding over (as it were) to erase common-sense good hygiene? Or is “phallus-worship” itself the point, and anti-Semitism a sub-topic? If an intact penis is a good in itself, why isn’t the female body and its functions equally good-as-created? Did Sally really use a whole quart-ziplock bag full of hot-glue sticks, and if so, what did she do with them?

One could go on ... but it looks as if one has to go to Walmart for more hot-glue sticks (and milk, and cookie mix, and spinach).


50 posted on 10/30/2013 10:33:35 AM PDT by Tax-chick ("The heart of the matter is God's love. It always has been. It always will be."~Abp. Chaput)
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