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A Sad Walk Through An ELCA Seminary
Exposing the ELCA ^ | 10/30/13 | Tom Brock

Posted on 10/31/2013 3:38:03 AM PDT by rhema

(I received this the other day. It's written by Pastor Tom Brock) -

Today I walked through my old alma mater, Luther Theological Seminary in St Paul, Mn. It is known as probably the most conservative of the ELCA seminaries. You wouldn’t know it from the number of gay/lesbian bumper stickers in the parking lot. Upon entering the main building a sign was up promoting a new book at Luther’s Bookstore, “Pastrix” by ELCA Pastor Nadia Bolz-Weber. She was a favorite speaker at the ELCA Youth Assembly and a few months ago spoke at the historic Central Lutheran Church in downtown Minneapolis—using the “f” word in her speech. I flipped through her new book and she repeatedly uses the “f” word, referring to the 12 disciples as a “bunch of “f” ups”. Former ELCA Head Bishop Mark Hanson praises the book on the dustcover. Even more disturbing is that Bolz-Weber in a sermon on Christ the King Sunday denied that Christ died in our place to pay for our sins. To quote:

And just to be clear: The cross is not about God as divine child abuser sadly sending his little boy off to be killed because we were bad and well, somebody had to pay.

Can someone deny the things of “first importance” as Paul puts it in I Corinthians 15:3, and still be a Christian? Yet she is a favorite speaker at ELCA events.

This attack on Christ’s substitutionary atonement is also going on at the ELCA’s Wartburg Seminary. Professor of New Testament David Lull wrote this:

" . . .I can’t get past the idea that God had a thirst for innocent blood that had to be quenched, or that God’s justice required a death-penalty for sinners until Jesus’ death satisfied God’s wrath. Even if Bible passages can be made to support these ideas, I can’t get past the idea that God had been unforgiving before Jesus died. That’s not the God I find in the Bible."

“Even if” the Bible teaches it, Professor Lull rejects it.

So now the day has come that the ELCA allows pastors and professors to deny the central teaching of the Christian faith: that sinless Jesus Christ died in our place to pay for our sins so that we could receive the forgiveness of God.

Like I said, a very sad day walking through Luther Seminary.


TOPICS: Apologetics; General Discusssion; Mainline Protestant; Moral Issues; Other non-Christian
KEYWORDS: abominationtogod; antichristians; broodofvipers; elca; expeltheimmoralones; fancydressfairies; fauxchristians; gaychurch; homosexualagenda; icky; lesbianpriestesses; luciferian; lutheran; playingchurch; queerchoirs; religiousleft; sexualimmorality; sin; sodomites; spawnofsatan; spewyouout; tombrock; unclean

1 posted on 10/31/2013 3:38:03 AM PDT by rhema
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To: rhema

“I didn’t leave the Lutheran Church, the Lutheran Church left me.”


2 posted on 10/31/2013 3:41:15 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (Ted Cruz/Sarah Palin 2016)
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To: rhema

They should be sued for using the name “Lutheran.” There is no Lutheran doctrine being preached in that denomination. It’s really “The Church of What’s Happenin’ Now,” of the old Flip Wilson comedy show....only they won’t be laughing on Judgment Day when these unfaithful stewards are asked to give an account to their faithfulness to Scripture. And that day will come, because Jesus said so.


3 posted on 10/31/2013 3:46:37 AM PDT by txrefugee
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
“I didn’t leave the Lutheran Church, the Lutheran Church left me.”

Please note that the views of the ELCA are NOT shared with either the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod or the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod.

4 posted on 10/31/2013 4:27:40 AM PDT by garyb
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To: rhema

People of all denominations are voting with their feet.

I was a cradle Episcopalian—No more.


5 posted on 10/31/2013 4:27:49 AM PDT by Arm_Bears (Refuse; Resist; Rebel; Revolt!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Same here........but it’s not just the Lutheran Church....it’s every denomination that allows the camel’s nose of apostosy under the tent flap!

.......especially the seminaries

The Presbyterian Church, PCA exists today ( and has for over 30 years because it was started and formed after leaving the mainline ( & now apostate Presbyterian Church, USA


6 posted on 10/31/2013 4:28:33 AM PDT by Guenevere (....)
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To: rhema

So, the ELCA appears to have joined the Unitarian Universalists.


7 posted on 10/31/2013 4:29:49 AM PDT by Sans-Culotte ( Pray for Obama- Psalm 109:8)
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To: txrefugee; rhema

The truly bizarre irony here is that the Lutheran Church was founded as a protest against Catholicism having lost its way doctrinally. What would Martin Luther think of his church now?


8 posted on 10/31/2013 4:50:15 AM PDT by Hardastarboard (You can keep your doctor - if you lock him in your basement.)
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To: rhema

Why are Protestants upset by Bolz-Weber or any of the other bizarre things going on in Protestantism?

Seriously, how can members of a group of sects founded on rebellion and revolutionary theology based on the interpretation of scripture separate from that of all Christian tradition be upset by someone like Bolz-Weber? Bolz-Weber is just the female, tattooed Martin Luther of her day: http://www.nadiabolzweber.com/media


9 posted on 10/31/2013 4:50:20 AM PDT by vladimir998
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To: rhema
I'm not far from an ELCA seminary that is mentioned, and depending on the particular day, it could either be a sad or a truly creepy place to walk into. The vestiges of Christianity were there, but they did not effectively camouflage the new paradigm. There were - and are, but I speak in the past tense because I no longer have any reason to even drive past the place - professors emeritus (IOW, who were old enough to know better) that were outspoken global socialists, pan-homosexualists and virulent "pro-Palestinians" (they seem to prefer the term "anti-zionists," but they embrace The Fat Doctor at his worst and then build on it). Yeah, the bumper stickers, posters, and various "theses nailed to the doors" - so to speak - that let you know everyone is loud, proud and filled with the spirit of social justice, though not necessarily enamored of the Gospels as written.

Having been raised in what became an ELCA church, their apostasy has left me embittered towards them, but not nearly as embittered as they seem to be towards the Bible. This denomination can't run out of self-delusional old peoples' money soon enough.

Mr. niteowl77

10 posted on 10/31/2013 4:51:56 AM PDT by niteowl77 ("If John McCain isn't the actual bottom of the GOP barrel, you don't want to see what's underneath.")
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To: rhema

Don’t want to jump to judgment considering this Pastor Nadia Bolz-Weber but she seems to be tattooed up and you can see her here: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/tonyjones/2011/06/28/the-wild-goose-festival-the-talks/ Also, looks like she was at the 2011 Wild Goose Festival in NC. This Wild Goose Festival was mentioned in this forum the other day. Her website: http://www.nadiabolzweber.com/latest-sermons May try and read a sermon to see what this person is about.


11 posted on 10/31/2013 4:53:07 AM PDT by BeadCounter
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To: Guenevere
it’s every denomination that allows the camel’s nose of apostosy under the tent flap!

That camel is getting pretty old! Born October 31, 1517, died?

12 posted on 10/31/2013 4:54:50 AM PDT by Jim Noble (When strong, avoid them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise.)
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To: garyb
Please note that the views of the ELCA are NOT shared with either the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod or the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod

And when THEY apostasize and split, forming smaller and smaller "orthodox" bodies, each of them will proclaim that only THEY, according to THEIR private interpretations of the Bible, are remaining faithful.

13 posted on 10/31/2013 4:57:52 AM PDT by Jim Noble (When strong, avoid them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Same here. I haven’t been back since they decided to promote homosexual behavior by ordaining gays. It is one thing to forgive sin, quite another to encourage it by rewarding the unrepentant.


14 posted on 10/31/2013 5:06:54 AM PDT by ThunderSleeps (Stop obarma now! Stop the hussein - insane agenda!)
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To: Jim Noble

That may be oversimplifying the situation and history of the Lutheran Church. Historically, for example, the WELS, WIsconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod was merely under the umbrella of the Lutheran Church of America but it already existed prior to their joining to be in a sort of solidarity with Lutherans in general. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisconsin_Evangelical_Lutheran_Synod

All the same, it is very different than how the Catholic Church might be which even at that, seems to have a split from the Orthodox.


15 posted on 10/31/2013 5:13:01 AM PDT by BeadCounter
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To: rhema

America has heaped to itself teachers. with itching ears we have been turned from the truth—turned to the lie and like
Jerusalem in the days of the great Prophets we are too proud to even see our sin.For we have told everyone God will NOT see.Or God will approve.


16 posted on 10/31/2013 5:28:00 AM PDT by Robert Burkholder
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To: rhema

That’s pretty much the essence of “liberalism” in general - thinking they know better than God. Judging His ways by their own standards.


17 posted on 10/31/2013 5:30:14 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: niteowl77
It's too bad, too, because I really enjoyed these guys when I was a kid:


18 posted on 10/31/2013 5:31:54 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: Jim Noble

I choose not to get into a flame war with you.


19 posted on 10/31/2013 5:38:30 AM PDT by Guenevere (....)
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To: Hardastarboard
What would Martin Luther think of his church now?

He'd probably return to Catholicism

20 posted on 10/31/2013 5:40:56 AM PDT by kidd
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To: rhema

I’m sorry the Evangelical Lutheran Church has fallen so far. I’ve had many wonderful neighbors and friends over the years who were devout members of our local ELCA congregation. Sadly, many of them have died or moved away and I don’t know if those ones have switched churches (as I suspect they have).


21 posted on 10/31/2013 5:41:19 AM PDT by old and tired
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To: garyb

“I didn’t leave the Lutheran Church, the Lutheran Church left me.”

Please note that the views of the ELCA are NOT shared with either the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod or the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod.


Exactly!! Whenever someone says they are Lutheran, I ask them “What flavor?”


22 posted on 10/31/2013 5:48:07 AM PDT by Conservaliberty (Everything is racist. Don't agree? That's because you're racist. /s)
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To: Charles Henrickson

I seem to recall someone who wrote a really HILARIOUS parody song to the tune of “Y.M.C.A.” called “E.L.C.A.”


23 posted on 10/31/2013 5:48:10 AM PDT by PJ-Comix (DUFUs soon to enter a NEW dimension?)
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To: old and tired

I’m in the same boat, I have a neighbor that is still a member of an ELCA Church. I have actually been to that Church a few times, this guy was touring who could recite the whole book of Mark, I went to see him, that was one of the times.

I wonder if there is an autonomous nature to some of the Churches because from what I have seen, they didn’t seem too bad; I wouldn’t know to think, ELCA Church, Liberal. It didn’t jump out at me but maybe that is how it is.

If I were a Lutheran, I’d go to WELS probably. I’m under the impression that a smaller Lutheran denomination, CLBA, Church of the Lutheran Brethren Association is also Orthodox and as I said, some of these actually predate and became a member under the umbrella of the Lutheran Church of America, a sort of affiliation of all the Lutheran Churches.


24 posted on 10/31/2013 5:56:56 AM PDT by BeadCounter
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To: old and tired

I’m sorry the Evangelical Lutheran Church has fallen so far.


The Extremely Liberal Crackpots in America is not the Evangelical Lutheran Church. The Evangelical Lutheran Church is comprised of all those church bodies which subscribe to the Book of Concord—those who believe that Scripture is the inspired Word of God and true in everything it says, and believe that the Book of Concord is a “true exposition” of what the Bible says. Just because the ELCA has “Evangelical Lutheran Church” in their name does not make them a part of the Evangelical Lutheran Church. They left the Evangelical Lutheran Church very soon after they made it part of their name.

The Evangelical Lutheran Church still exists wherever God’s Word is being taught in its truth and purity and the Sacraments are being rightly administered—for right now that would be the LCMS and WELS. Not ELCA.

(Please note that this post was written by Conservaliberty’s husband who is an LCMS pastor.)


25 posted on 10/31/2013 6:05:24 AM PDT by Conservaliberty (Everything is racist. Don't agree? That's because you're racist. /s)
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To: rhema

The reason we left the ELCA is their support, regardless of the amount, of Re-Imagining Workshops. One speaker was quoted to say that something like ‘we don’t need the blood of Jesus or him hanging on a cross’; used milk and honey for communion which symbolized the fluids from a woman’s body and worshiped a female goddess symbol named Sophia which they claimed was in the Bible. As sad as it is, I am not surprised at what you found in your seminary.


26 posted on 10/31/2013 6:07:06 AM PDT by outinyellowdogcountry
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To: Arm_Bears; rhema
It is growing difficult to vote with our feet. The enemy besieges every church, and many are meekly allowing him in. Even the LCMS and SBC are beginning, if not to waver, at least to listen to the enemy. We all know the inevitable result of the "listening process" in our churches: the orthodox are forced to surrender or leave.

Non-denominational and independent churches are not immune. If anything they are more vulnerable. All it takes is one event to utterly cloud the judgement of the pastoral staff. One Sunday orthodox, the next lurching toward universalism under the rainbow flag with many a "Kumbiyah" besides. I've seen this with my own eyes, twice now.

And even the Catholic church is not immune. In some ways it mirrors the non-denoms...under Benedict 16 the RCC thundered forth with a refreshing orthodoxy and clarity. Under Francis I, well, you figure out what the church is now saying. To me it sounds rather Episcopal. And that is dismaying.

27 posted on 10/31/2013 7:56:55 AM PDT by jboot (Ask me again after the revolution.)
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To: Hardastarboard

Many are coming back to Catholicism because it has not lost it way.

The Catholic Church was the first (and is still standing) against abortion, euthanasia, homosexuality and same-sex marriage, contraception, embryonic stem cell research and on and on.

No other church can make this nearly 2000 year old claim.


28 posted on 10/31/2013 8:00:07 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Hardastarboard

Many are coming back to Catholicism because it has not lost it way.

The Catholic Church was the first (and is still standing) against abortion, euthanasia, homosexuality and same-sex marriage, contraception, embryonic stem cell research and on and on.

No other church can make this nearly 2000 year old claim.


29 posted on 10/31/2013 8:00:54 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: kidd
"He'd probably return to Catholicism ."

We left the ELCA and swam the Tiber to Rome 19 years ago. What a beautiful home we have found!

30 posted on 10/31/2013 9:19:17 AM PDT by Reo (the 4th Estate is a 5th Column)
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To: rhema

They are now an atheistic cult. That is all.


31 posted on 10/31/2013 9:19:27 AM PDT by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: Guenevere

It starts with incremental slights to Scriptural authority, like allowing women as clergy. After that barrier is breached, it is always down hill into the abyss - every time.


32 posted on 10/31/2013 9:23:06 AM PDT by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: rhema
From a Pastor Brock quote in the comments of the article:
Pastor Brock writes on his website [ pastorsstudy.org ]:

". . . On October 20th, I will preach on Minneapolis TV a program entitled “God’s Three-fold Cure for America” (you can watch it on our website at pastorsstudy.org soon). In it I state that in my 60 years of life I have never seen America go downhill so fast as I have this past year. Then I preach on the three-fold cure from 2 Chronicles 7:14:

1. God’s people (the Church!) must humble itself
2. The Church must pray
3. We must turn from wickedness

Then, and only then, does 2 Chronicles promise God will heal our land.

This is not necessarily in error, but is inaccurate. Our language has been sullied by the godless Left, and what used to have clear mean has now been perverted to their own ends.

Point 1 - Fake homo-ficated "church" members would heartily agree that biblical Christians should "humble" themselves by capitulating on the new, perverted doctrine of homosexual acceptance. Now, "humble" has been revised.

Point 2 - Of course the sodomite church invaders would encourage everyone to pray. But prayer can be WRONG on so many occasions for so many reasons. There are times that God told his people to get off their knees and REPENT.

Point 3 - "We must turn from wickedness." Again, the homo-Left has completely turned around morality, calling "good evil, and evil good," so such an admonition is almost rendered meaningless.

The last sentence refers only to God's chosen nation, Israel. Although the principles of blessing apply to any group of people who will recognize His Authority of their lives, the promise to "heal their land" is to Israel solely.

33 posted on 10/31/2013 9:33:19 AM PDT by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: niteowl77

“Having been raised in what became an ELCA church, their apostasy has left me embittered towards them, but not nearly as embittered as they seem to be towards the Bible. This denomination can’t run out of self-delusional old peoples’ money soon enough.”

I couldn’t agree more. I grew up in the ELCA church, and have since, in my adulthood, come to an understanding of the saving grace of the cross. My parents both continue to attend the ELCA church. But to hear them tell it, church attendance sounds more like a social experience with a “feel good” message thrown in to boost the congregation’s self esteem. I can also remember my shock at hearing my dad speak about attending college courses at Concordia in Moorhead back in the late 1950’s—even then they were teaching that the Bible was merely a “book full of stories and good ideas on how we should live our lives, but not the divinely inspired word of God.” It’s no wonder that this denomination feels free, then, to pick and choose which portions of the Bible they should honor.


34 posted on 10/31/2013 10:58:55 AM PDT by MNGal
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To: BeadCounter
Our little Lutheran church, many years ago, was, or seemed to be, autonomous...(as each Baptist church is autonomous)

..our dear pastor was a graduate of Wheaton College.....no liberalism here!---- the worst we argued about was the color of the hymnals!

...but after 12 years there, this church too came under the umbrella of the ELCA and that was that....:(

..the pastor retired....we found a PCA Presbyterian and moved on.

35 posted on 10/31/2013 12:05:24 PM PDT by Guenevere (....)
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To: fwdude

Indeed!...incremental


36 posted on 10/31/2013 12:37:25 PM PDT by Guenevere (....)
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To: garyb
Please note that the views of the ELCA are NOT shared with either the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod or the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod.

Do either of these groups endorse or ordain women?

If they do, then they are well down the road of apostasy already.

37 posted on 10/31/2013 2:42:05 PM PDT by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: fwdude

No.


38 posted on 10/31/2013 3:11:17 PM PDT by garyb
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To: fwdude

For your information, Michelle Bachmann grew up Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod, she’s pretty conservative and smart. Big differences with these denonimations. The answer to your question is not just no but....


39 posted on 10/31/2013 5:50:55 PM PDT by BeadCounter
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To: rhema

ELCA has committed suicide. It may be waning, and its death kick may not come for awhile, but it is already dead to me.


40 posted on 10/31/2013 5:55:03 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: garyb

Good to hear!


41 posted on 10/31/2013 7:04:34 PM PDT by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: old and tired

Nadia Bolz-Weber seems to be little more than one more New Age nut, who may well share a barber with Janet Napolitano. Bob


42 posted on 11/04/2013 1:14:52 PM PST by alstewartfan ("If I had known last summer... I'd have never set my foot inside this bleak and bitter land." Al S)
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To: rhema
And just to be clear: The cross is not about God as divine child abuser sadly sending his little boy off to be killed because we were bad and well, somebody had to pay.

The little heretic is correct, but she doesn't realize why. God willingly got on the cross himself.

43 posted on 11/04/2013 1:19:44 PM PST by Gamecock (Many Atheists take the stand: "There is no God AND I hate Him.")
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To: rhema; All

Notice this Preacher is one of the stories at Drudge Report right now:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/bolz-webers-liberal-foulmouthed-articulation-of-christianity-speaks-to-fed-up-believers/2013/11/03/7139dc24-3cd3-11e3-a94f-b58017bfee6c_story.html

“Bolz-Weber’s liberal, foulmouthed articulation of Christianity speaks to fed-up believers”


44 posted on 11/04/2013 8:14:05 PM PST by BeadCounter (The night they drove O'BamaCare down...)
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To: Guenevere

Also, the Orthodox Presbyterian is conservative and adheres to God’s Word.

It bothes me when news reports say the Presbyterian church has taken some position or expressed an opinion, because they always mean the PCUSA. As you say, the PCUSA is apostate and it does not represent all Presbyterians.


45 posted on 11/05/2013 9:56:42 PM PST by Pining_4_TX (All those who were appointed to eternal life believed. Acts 13:48)
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