Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

KENYA: {Evangelical) Pastors want AK-47s to protect their flocks against The Religion of Peace
WDTPRS ^ | November 3, 2013 | Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Posted on 11/03/2013 5:05:29 AM PST by NYer

From Jihad Watch by Robert Spencer:

Kenyan pastors ask for AK-47s to counter Islamic jihad attacks

Christianity has never opposed self-defense. “Kenyan Pastors Ask for AK-47s Amid Radical Muslim Persecution,” by Fredrick Nzwili for RNS, November 1 (thanks to The Religion of Peace):

As attacks on Christians mount in Kenya’s coastal region, some evangelical pastors in the Mombasa area may no longer be willing to turn the other cheek.Worried about attacks against their churches and congregations, some pastors are asking for rifles to protect themselves from suspected Islamic extremists.

The violence intensified on Oct. 20 and 21, when two evangelical church pastors were killed inside their churches. Pastor Charles Mathole, 41, was killed Oct. 20 as he prayed inside his Vikwatani Redeemed Gospel Church. The following day, East African Pentecostal Church pastor Ibrahim Kithaka was found dead in Kilifi, about 35 miles north of Mombasa.

Christian leaders blame the attacks on increased radicalization of Muslim youth. The attacks have occurred amid protests by Muslims that they were being targeted in Nairobi’s war against terrorism.

“Our many churches are not under any protection. They do not have walls or gates. The government should issue AK-47 rifles to every church so that we can stop them from being burnt, our property from being looted and our pastors and Christians from being killed,” said Lambert Mbela, a pastor at Mathole’s church, during his funeral.

Three weeks before the latest murders, Muslim youth torched a Salvation Army church in the Majengo area in Mombasa to protest the killing of the popular Sheikh Ibrahim “Rogo” Omar and three others by unknown gunmen on Oct.4. The same church was torched last year after the murder of another prominent Muslim cleric, Sheikh Aboud Rogo Mohammed.

Some church officials say the request for arms reflects a growing frustration with the rising insecurity, but others say the move contradicts traditional biblical teachings on nonviolence, [non-violence doesn't mean that we are obliged to let our loved one's be killed...] or could put churches and congregations at more risk. [?!?]

“I don’t think arming Kenyan (clerics) will ensure security,” said the Rev. Peter Karanja, the general secretary of the National Council of Churches of Kenya, at a news conference in Limuru, near Nairobi, on Wednesday (Oct. 30). [Perhaps he should go out to Vikwatani to take over for the pastor who was killed.]

[...]

Interfaith initiatives in the coastal region have allowed different faiths to live in relative calm, but the attacks are threatening decades of peaceful coexistence, according to the Rev. Wilybard Lagho, vicar general of the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Mombasa.

“I think we need to restrengthen interreligious dialogue. The problem is in the minds, and we need to win them back,” said Lagho, calling the request for guns a shallow solution to a complex problem.

Yes, dialogue will certainly fix the problem. It always has before, right?

Some Muslim leaders, meanwhile, have backed the pastors’ call for arms but said there should be a thorough vetting of who gets a gun.“It is a good idea, but not all clerics should get the guns. Some are rogue clerics and may pose more danger to other religious leaders,” said Sheikh Juma Ngao, chairman of the Kenya Muslim National Advisory Council.

Yes, of course. It’s the Christian clerics who are the problem, not the innumerable Muslim clerics preaching jihad and hatred of the kuffar.

The storm is rising more quickly in Africa than elsewhere, but it is rising everywhere.


TOPICS: Evangelical Christian; Islam; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: kenya

1 posted on 11/03/2013 5:05:29 AM PST by NYer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Tax-chick; GregB; Berlin_Freeper; SumProVita; narses; bboop; SevenofNine; Ronaldus Magnus; tiki; ...

FYI ping!


2 posted on 11/03/2013 5:06:00 AM PST by NYer ("The wise man is the one who can save his soul. - St. Nimatullah Al-Hardini)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer
Rev. Peter Karanja There are idiots every where.

It is much better to be killed the resist /S

3 posted on 11/03/2013 5:09:38 AM PST by riverrunner
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Christians should take care of each other by learning how to defend one another from murderous Muslims.

esus recommended buying a sword for protection, because A-K 47s weren’t around yet.


4 posted on 11/03/2013 5:15:00 AM PST by txrefugee
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer
Credible threat reporting would indicate it's a prudent measure for any Christian church anywhere around the world. Our own church protects its pastor with a bodyguard during Sunday services. Slap leather in that church, and be met with return fire from the congregation too. See: Church Security
5 posted on 11/03/2013 5:15:29 AM PST by PowderMonkey (WILL WORK FOR AMMO)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Islam is frequently translated as “peace.” Its actual translation is “submission.” It means that there will be peace when all have submitted to Islam. There can be no peace until either that has happened or all Islamists have converted. This is going to be a problem for the next five hundred years. The sooner the west recognizes this and takes action the fewer people will die.


6 posted on 11/03/2013 5:18:46 AM PST by Gen.Blather
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer; All
"“I think we need to restrengthen interreligious dialogue. The problem is in the minds, and we need to win them back,” said Lagho, calling the request for guns a shallow solution to a complex problem.

That's the problem on the planet, brother.

And because the irreligious will by and large refuse dialogue, the solution is stopping them from killing ... by killing them.

God help us all ... God forgive us all.

7 posted on 11/03/2013 5:28:53 AM PST by knarf (I say things that are true .. I have no proof .. but they're true.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer

It is because the jihadists know that the Christian faith is the REAL fastest growing faith, not theirs and they are in a losing war,


8 posted on 11/03/2013 5:35:21 AM PST by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Back in OUR DAYS of ‘bleeding Kansas’ we sent them (anti-slavery folks) “Beacher’s Bibles”—which were cases of Sharpe’s rifles which were the AK 47s of the 1850’s, labeled ‘Bibles’.

This is NOT a new concept.


9 posted on 11/03/2013 5:43:02 AM PST by Flintlock ("The redcoats are coming" -- TO SEIZE OUR GUNS!!--Paul Revere)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer

The religion of pieces.

I wonder what it is like to be torn apart by pliers...

But yeah, AKs seem like the bare minimum step here.

Flame throwers would probably also help deter them.


10 posted on 11/03/2013 5:53:15 AM PST by chris37 (Heartless.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Maybe Christians from other nations should start coming to their defense. Churches in the u.s. should start funding defense missions. Enough is enough.


11 posted on 11/03/2013 5:59:42 AM PST by I got the rope
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer
“I think we need to restrengthen interreligious dialogue. The problem is in the minds, and we need to win them back,” said Lagho, calling the request for guns a shallow solution to a complex problem.

Guns maybe a shallow solution, but it certainly will help get the muslim "minds" right to win them back

12 posted on 11/03/2013 5:59:51 AM PST by Popman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer

If they kill me for being a disciple of Christ, I’ll be in good company. Plus I’ll get to go home that much quicker.

The theme of Peter’s first epistle is “first the suffering, then the glory”.


13 posted on 11/03/2013 6:00:21 AM PST by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: LearsFool

Rev. 2:10 says “Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.” I remember doing a study on the New Testament crowns... there was none for marksmanship! Has anybody noticed that in the non-African persecuted countries, Christians ask for prayers, Bibles... never for AK-47s?


14 posted on 11/03/2013 8:58:11 AM PST by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Former Fetus
It's time for Christians, Jews, and all other non Muslims to realize we are in the beginning stages of World War III.

The Muslims know this and are fighting it.

15 posted on 11/03/2013 9:15:36 AM PST by Mogger (Independence, better fuel economy and performance with American made synthetic oil.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Mogger

There is a difference between a nation having an army for defense and a pastor having an AK-47 in church! If country X should attack us or invade us, I’m all for responding. If someone attacks me for being a Christian, like another poster here said, it just means I’ll be home sooner than I expected!


16 posted on 11/03/2013 9:24:43 AM PST by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Former Fetus

“There is a difference between a nation having an army for defense and a pastor having an AK-47 in church!”

What is that difference, exactly?

Why is self defense, defense of precious life, not supposed to happen in church? What’s the difference to God between suicide and allowing someone else to kill you? Seems sinful to me.


17 posted on 11/03/2013 10:00:34 AM PST by CodeToad (Liberals are bloodsucking ticks. We need to light the matchstick to burn them off. -786 +969)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Religion of peace? Isn’t it time we stop listening to baloney? We need to toughen up again like we did during the second world war. We have to stop being like Neville Chamberlain.


18 posted on 11/03/2013 10:35:04 AM PST by maxwellsmart_agent
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: CodeToad

Hard to explain, but there is a vast difference between a pastor and a military commander. They serve different Lords. Yes, someone mentioned that Jesus told the disciples to get swords, but He also told Peter to put his sword in its sheath (John 18:11). During the centuries Christians have been persecuted and, when they did not fight back, the Church grew. Look at the growth of the Church in the Roman Empire, or in China today. But when they fought back, well, look at the wars in Europe, Protestant vs Catholic, did that help spread the Gospel? One must also keep in mind the difference between being attacked because of nationality, political affiliation... or for being a Christian!


19 posted on 11/03/2013 11:19:28 AM PST by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Former Fetus

You didn’t answer the question. Why should a pastor allow life to be taken without a fight with the idea in his head that a bad guy killing him so easily would bring him closer to God quicker?

I mean, the way you have put it, abortion is moral as it kills someone and sends them to God.

I think God expects us to protect life even if we are not military officers.


20 posted on 11/03/2013 11:35:20 AM PST by CodeToad (Liberals are bloodsucking ticks. We need to light the matchstick to burn them off. -786 +969)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: CodeToad

God expects us to protect life, that is why we defend other people, our countries, and most of all the helpless unborn baby. When it comes to our personal lives, well, that’s when it gets harder. I believe that He won’t hold it against a person who kills to defend himself, but that doesn’t mean that was the ideal response. Matt 16:25 —> “whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.” Two caveats: his life (not somebody else’s) and for My sake (not because of your race, nationality...)


21 posted on 11/03/2013 12:25:49 PM PST by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Former Fetus
If someone attacks me for being a Christian, like another poster here said, it just means I’ll be home sooner than I expected!

If that is your belief and attitude, that is good for you.

For myself, I prefer to live up to one's responsibility to protect oneself and one's family.

I prefer the General Patton approach.

"It's not your job to die for your country". "It's your job to make that other poor bastard die for his."

I would add on the words "family", "religion", etc.

If you want to Bible thump, there are many passages in the bible stating you obligation to self and family defense.

Do you hold God in so little regard that you refuse to defend the body He was kind enough to give you?

22 posted on 11/03/2013 1:43:01 PM PST by Mogger (Independence, better fuel economy and performance with American made synthetic oil.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson