Cardinal opposes Vatican over church teaching on marriage

Catholic Conclave ^ | November 8, 2013 | Christopher Gillibrand

[Sacajaweau]

Of course they should be allowed to receive communion.

[yarddog]

Sometimes one party to a divorce is completely innocent. The Bible also allows divorce in cases of adultry.

[Petrosius]

“Until death do us part” is a fact, not just an ideal. If someone attempts what would be an invalid remarriage after divorce they are committing adultery. This grave sin is what rightfully keeps them from receiving Holy Communion. The truly pastoral response would be to teach the truth about the lie which is divorce and give those burdened by it the support to live faithfully to the commandments of God.

[Petrosius]

Sometimes one party to a divorce is completely innocent.

This is true but that does not change the reality that the marriage still exists.

The Bible also allows divorce in cases of adultry.

A common Protestant error. Porneia mentioned in Matthew means an illicit sexual union, not adultery.

[narses]

In the Religion forum, on a thread titled Cardinal opposes Vatican over church teaching on marriage, yarddog wrote:

Sometimes one party to a divorce is completely innocent. The Bible also allows divorce in cases of (sic) adultry.

http://catholicdefense.blogspot.com/2009/05/does-bible-permit-divorce-in-case-of.html

http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/if-jesus-made-an-exception-for-divorce-in-cases-of-adultery-why-doesnt-the-church

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=103

[xzins]

I’m torn on this one because Jesus clearly says that some are caused to commit adultery because the infidelity of a spouse leads to divorce.

If the cause is another person, then there should be understanding.

On the other hand, he said/she saids are almost always impossible to sort out. And annulments sometimes seem so much like rationalizing something away.

Also, a strict standard is clear, understandable, and an incentive to live a certain way.

[Cicero]

Yes, it’s always difficult for outsiders to weigh the blame when two people divorce.

But we’re talking about divorce and re-marriage. Even if someone is divorced against their will, and is not to blame for the divorce, they are still committing adultery if they decide to remarry. That remarriage is their decision, freely made.

Very difficult and unfortunate. But life isn’t always fair. Just because life is tough doesn’t give anyone a right to commit adultery.

[MacMattico]

In practice, I've been to many Catholic churches and never asked if I were divorced before taking Communion. Or even if I were a Catholic for that matter. Obviously in my home church they know I am not divorced and am Catholic. But I really think on the practical, weekly Mass level, you are taken at your word when you go up for Communion. God knows what's in your heart! And divorce is such a tough thing in a family, everybody hurts. Especially if you go through spiritual counseling you should still be allowed Communion. We are all sinners!

[onedoug]

Depends on who you are. This was and is no problem for the Kennedys who otherwise play at piousness. Or Biden, or Pelosi. If you’ve got the cash or the station, they’ve got Communion you.

[ebb tide]

“And divorce is such a tough thing in a family, everybody hurts.”

And abortion is such a tough thing in a family, everybody hurts, especially the baby that was murdered. Does that mean the parents are entitled to Holy Communion?

Adultery and murder (abortion) are both mortal sins. And if one dies in a state of mortal sin what happens?

[MacMattico]

Who gets murdered in a divorce? I grew up in the 80’s where many of my friends grew up in broken homes and it was tough, but it was much worse when they lived in a home with no happiness but the parent stuck around, especially when the kids knew that parent was having an affair, was an alcoholic or abusive.

My own cousins had an abusive father and he was perfectly happy to live out his life married but cheating on my Aunt, out drinking every night and gone every weekend spending all of their money. My aunt finally got a divorce and went into counseling with our Priest. She met a wonderful man, for her and her children, and they celebrated their 40th Wedding Anniversary this past summer. Do not compare that with Abortion!

[Petrosius]

Especially if you go through spiritual counseling you should still be allowed Communion.

… and resolve to sin no more, i.e. refrain from adulterous affairs.

To pretend that a valid marriage no longer exists so that the parties can "get on with their lives" is a false charity. Imposed celibacy is indeed a hardship but is this not one of those times when we need to listen to our Lord and "take up our cross and follow him"? As Christians we need to have the faith to live the gospel.

[Petrosius]

There are times that separation and a civil divorce is justified but this does not invalidate the existing marriage. As Christians do we take the words of our Lord seriously or are we just play acting?

[MacMattico]

The fact that we can hope and pray that a serial killer “found Jesus” on his death bed and then can therefore be saved but we want to condemn the divorced and remarried, even if divorced through no fault of their own, when they seek forgiveness and spiritual guidance makes no sense in any Christian denomination.

[MacMattico]

So are we disagreeing specifically about annulments now?

[Petrosius]

An annulment is a declaration that a marriage never truly existed, not the dissolution of a valid marriage. Those annulled and remarried are free to receive Communion.

[Petrosius]

Those divorced and remarried have always been able to approach the Church and seek forgiveness but the sin is the adultery while still validly married. The alleged divorce is a falsehood; the original marriage (assuming no annulment) still endures. Are you proposing that we just pretend that it does not exist? Are you suggesting that we should have more compassion than our Lord Jesus Christ who said: “Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery”?

[MacMattico]

I know what an annulment is. Annulments aren't always possible, and I must say (even as a Catholic) are sometimes given out to easily. An Annulment is supposed to be given when the marriage is “found lacking in the essential characteristics of a Christian Sacramental Union from the time of consent.” In my example, my Uncle was a good guy for the first five years of his marriage to my Aunt, and then he turned into a monster. It was the 1960’s and she wasn't offered an annulment, but after divorced, as I have said, received counseling and forgiveness.

[MacMattico]

I am Catholic. Annulments are fine with me if done for the right reasons and properly. Now you’re quoting Jesus Christ on divorce. Please quote Jesus Christ on Annulments. I am completely at ease with the Annulment as a Catholic teaching, but I don’t believe their is no way back to God because you are divorced. I don’t believe God treats divorce the same as Abortion or Murder. Call me a heretic. I am not of the belief that many good people I know are condemned to hell over a divorce.