Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Will Gay Marriage Derail Evangelical Support for Israel?
Pajamas Media ^ | 11/13/2013 | RHONDA ROBINSON

Posted on 11/14/2013 9:22:40 AM PST by SeekAndFind

As world leaders gathered to discuss the future of Israel, speculations and suspicions swirled around American Christians’ motives and commitment to Israel’s right to exist.

From Tablet’s Why Gay Marriage–Not AIPAC–May Determine Whether Bibi Bombs Iran:

Bibi’s possible choice of a military option would be premised in part on the assumption that Israel enjoys a strong bedrock of support in the United States—not Jews, but Christian evangelicals. The problem with the assumption that Israel can rely on its Christian supporters—and the majority of Congress that is reliant on their votes—is that some younger evangelicals are now tilting against support for the Jewish state. Oddly, the issue that may decide whether Israel can count on the United States in the future is not President Barack Obama’s foreign policy, but the evangelical schism on the issue of gay marriage.

[snip]

American evangelical support for Israel is based on a fundamentalist reading of the Bible, in particular this passage from the Book of Genesis, Chapter 12, Verse 3: “And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.” The political expression of the mainstream evangelical exegesis of this passage is John Hagee’s Christians United for Israel, which is the country’s largest pro-Israel organization—a fact that is hardly surprising, given that, according to the recent Pew study, more evangelicals believe that God gave Israel to the Jews than American Jews do, 82 percent to 40 percent.

[snip]

Contrary to what many liberals believe, and many conservatives like to pretend, the fundamentalist movement, like Judaism, is not a unitary political or theological force. Evangelicals lack a single guiding leader, as Catholics have in the pope, and as a result schisms in their movement have played a large if often understated role in American history. One such historic schism may be opening up beneath the feet of the pro-Israel community right now.

Evoking Hollywood images of the Scopes trial to illustrate the point, author Lee Smith claims that just as evolution split fundamentalists into sides that fought over the literal interpretation of creation, leaving them them looking foolish and archaic, so too will those that believe in the out-of-touch ideal of marriage as only one man and one woman look foolish.

So, what message can you send to show that you’re not one of these retrograde, conservative, gay-hating evangelicals? One way they’ve found to go against the conservative tide is to embrace anti-Zionism.

Foolish, rebellious youth–Christian or not– will always find a way to buck the establishment and attempt to prove they are wiser and more enlightened than the previous generation. It’s also an added bonus when you can do so looking morally superior.

If the author is correct and there is a movement underfoot among young Christians to support Palestine, it would be disturbing but not surprising–and certainly not for the reason stated by the author.

It would be a victory in the war of disinformation and the popular culture’s trend of turning antisemitism, Marxism, and the destruction of capitalism into something that’s “hip.”

For the record, Christians who support Israel do so for more reasons than the seemingly self-serving scripture the author states.

There is also another shift in the Christian world that shouldn’t be dismissed. Smith writes, “Evangelicals lack a single guiding leader, as Catholics have in the pope, and as a result schisms in their movement have played a large if often understated role in American history.”

That leader is commonly called Jesus. I realize that in the face of all that has been done in his name, that concept is hard for so many to understand–especially Israel.

More and more young followers of Christ are rejecting historical Christianity and the tenets that led to so many atrocities committed in their Savior’s name. They seek to embrace Christ and follow his teachings rather than a religion.

Many followers of Christ from all denominations support Israel, simply because they too worship the God of Israel and serve Yeshua HaMashiach (Jesus the Messiah), who said,

“You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews.” John 4:22

As followers of the risen Christ, we pray for the Peace of Jerusalem and support Israel. We will continue to do so, even as gay pride marchers flaunt their sexuality through the city streets.

Without the protection and freedom Israel offers, those marching could be thrust into the evil and horrendous situation that waits outside her borders.



TOPICS: Evangelical Christian; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: evangelicals; gaymarriage; homosexuality; israel

1 posted on 11/14/2013 9:22:40 AM PST by SeekAndFind
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

Marriage is not a government function in Israel.

If two secular sodomites (and we have a lot of them in Israel —— about 1/2 our population is secular) want to cohabitate and call it a cabbage, and enter a contractual arrangement among themselves to that effect, they can do it.


2 posted on 11/14/2013 9:29:12 AM PST by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Jewbacca

So, Israel does not have a law REQUIRING private companies to give benefits to gay partners?


3 posted on 11/14/2013 9:30:17 AM PST by SeekAndFind
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

Not really, no.

Health insurance is not done through your employer like it is in the USA. You buy in directly into one of the 4 or so HMOs. So it’s not an issue.

But you can name whomever you want as the recipient of your retirement account or whatever, so yes, a queer could name a queer. Or his brother. Or his Shul or church.


4 posted on 11/14/2013 9:34:29 AM PST by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Jewbacca

But can he/she sue someone for refusing to photograph or do some professional service his/her “wedding”?

Is the one refusing to provide service on religious grounds liable for disobeying the law ( like they are in the USA )?


5 posted on 11/14/2013 9:39:45 AM PST by SeekAndFind
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

Gays cannot get “married” in Israel, so no.

There is not even a civil marriage — the ceremony must be done by a religious authority.

The religious authority for Jewish citizens in Israel is Orthodox and does not recognize approve of gay “marriage.”

Queers have to get married in some country that does gay marriage, then move to Israel, where their union is contractually recognized.

There are some limited anti-discrimination laws in employment, but there are some large exemptions for employers who are observant Jews (or Christians or muslims).


6 posted on 11/14/2013 9:53:46 AM PST by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Jewbacca

Well, that sounds like a system that would work for me here in the USA.


7 posted on 11/14/2013 10:01:04 AM PST by SeekAndFind
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

“But can he/she sue someone for refusing to photograph or do some professional service his/her “wedding”?”

I have a general question prompted anew by this discourse.

Why should a private business firm not be allowed to choose to serve or not to serve whomever it wishes to serve or not, without giving any reason for exercising that choice?


8 posted on 11/14/2013 10:01:24 AM PST by Elsiejay
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind; Jewbacca

There is bigger issue here than just Israeli law concerning gay couples. Once again, so called “progressives” (no such thing as pro-homo, anti-Israel Christians), want to side with regressive Islam rather than the most western/progressive country in the region.


9 posted on 11/14/2013 10:50:48 AM PST by Augustinian monk ("BUSHES WITHOUT BORDERS")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Jewbacca

I’ve been reading a bit about the controversy surrounding rabbinical marriage in Israel, as well as the movement to have civil marriage. Gay marriage is a great argument in support of rabbinical marriage!


10 posted on 11/14/2013 11:08:09 AM PST by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Augustinian monk
There is bigger issue here than just Israeli law concerning gay couples. Once again, so called “progressives” (no such thing as pro-homo, anti-Israel Christians), want to side with regressive Islam rather than the most western/progressive country in the region.

Sign of the times my FRiend, sign of the times. On the use of "progressives" let me recommend a new "terminology" for all those leftists, progressives, Alinskyites etc. Just use the following: PAGAN

People

Against

God

And

Normalcy

"PAGAN"

11 posted on 11/14/2013 11:26:02 AM PST by redleghunter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Jewbacca; SeekAndFind
I don't get it. It seems to say that the pro-gay young Evangelicals will support the Palestinians --- who want to behead says.

Make sense?

12 posted on 11/14/2013 12:30:49 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (What does the Lord require of you, but to act justly, to love tenderly, to walk humbly with your God)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Jewbacca; SeekAndFind

I meant, of course, Muslim Palestinians who want to behead GAYS.


13 posted on 11/14/2013 2:04:25 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Qwerty, ergo typo.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

“Well, that sounds like a system that would work for me here in the USA.”

It could, although marriage has more civil significance in the USA than Israel.

I tend to not understand the resistance of recognizing marriage a religious rite and minimizing its legal impact.

I mean, does the USA tax someone differently (or whatever) if they had a bris? Or were baptized?

Marriage a religious rite that has gotten confuddled civilly.

We should un-confuddle it and then the queers can’t screw it up.


14 posted on 11/14/2013 2:27:41 PM PST by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Elsiejay

“Why should a private business firm not be allowed to choose to serve or not to serve whomever it wishes to serve or not, without giving any reason for exercising that choice?”

I concur.

Of course, the problem was, back in the day, businesses refused to serve whites or blacks depending on what business they were.

Instead of letting the marketplace put those crappy businesses out of business, Congress got involved and passed laws.


15 posted on 11/14/2013 2:29:55 PM PST by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Jewbacca

RE: Marriage a religious rite that has gotten confuddled civilly.

So, how does Israel “recognize” a marriage?

Let’s say we have a Jewish couple who are not particularly religious who were civilly married outside Israel and then went on to migrate to Israel, surely Israel will recognize that marriage ( or is it none of the Israeli government’s business who one calls his/her spouse?).

Also, lets say we have a Jewish couple in Israel who are NOT RELIGIOUS ( in fact, atheistic), who want to marry, where can they go if not be married civilly?


16 posted on 11/14/2013 2:33:04 PM PST by SeekAndFind
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: dennisw; Cachelot; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; Lent; GregB; ..
Middle East and terrorism, occasional political and Jewish issues Ping List. High Volume

If you’d like to be on or off, please FR mail me.

..................

Not sure I get what gay marriage has to do with anything, other than the title. Marriage in Israel is controlled by the recognized religions. Typical in the Mideast, though most mideastern countries don't recognize 11 or 12 Christian denominations or Judaism. There is no such thing as secular marriage.

Should Israel adopt secular marriage like most of the west, so what. Two Reform Jews could get married, a Christian could marry a Jew or a Muslim, which doesn't necessarily mean they could all marry each other. Or someone of the same sex, like in the west, or their goat.

But I get it, there's Christians who don't like Israel (or Jews), Christians who do like Israel (the same sort of ill-conceived hermeneutic that had led evangelicals to back the wrong side in the Scopes decision per the author. Did I forget to mention the ill-educated boobs who were ridiculed by H.L. Mencken, their support of Zionism also showed them to be bad Christians, lousy stinking pro-Israel Evangelical Christians to be sure.

17 posted on 11/14/2013 2:39:03 PM PST by SJackson (if you want to test a man’s character, give him power A Lincoln)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind; Jewbacca

Here in the good old USA my employer provided insurance has done the same thing for decades, which I think is great despite never using it. Though I’ve always insured my spouse, I’ve been allowed to name anyone legally residing with me. Which I suppose could be a gay roommate, though I’d prefer one of the opposite sex. Were I not married, it could be a resident child, or a parent whom I was supporting. Not a bad thing, the actuaries can work out the cost.


18 posted on 11/14/2013 2:42:16 PM PST by SJackson (if you want to test a man’s character, give him power A Lincoln)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: SJackson

Come on, now. Muslims don’t marry goats. They just have sex with them.


19 posted on 11/14/2013 2:46:15 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (From time to time the.tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

SO, nobody questions the goals and motives in wanting to destroy Israel?


20 posted on 11/14/2013 2:48:07 PM PST by GeronL (Extra Large Cheesy Over-Stuffed Hobbit)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Jewbacca
It could, although marriage has more civil significance in the USA than Israel. I tend to not understand the resistance of recognizing marriage a religious rite and minimizing its legal impact.

No sh*t, that's really what it's all about. The income tax impact can be significant, it's my understanding it's minimal in Israel. And then there's the estate tax, I forget, what are the estate taxes in Israel. Insurance is an issue too

I recall when the draft ended, the war protests subsided. I'm sure it was a coincidence. Were there no tax and insurance benefits in the US tax code, gay marriage would be a minor issue.

21 posted on 11/14/2013 2:48:36 PM PST by SJackson (if you want to test a man’s character, give him power A Lincoln)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
Is the one refusing to provide service on religious grounds liable for disobeying the law ( like they are in the USA )?

What is the law? Are people forced to set aside their beliefs and serve the perverts?

22 posted on 11/14/2013 2:50:01 PM PST by GeronL (Extra Large Cheesy Over-Stuffed Hobbit)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Jewbacca

Half the churches in this country would perform gay marriages, how would that be “un-confuddled”?

Make it simple, marriage is between a man and a woman, period and recognized as such by society.


23 posted on 11/14/2013 2:52:26 PM PST by GeronL (Extra Large Cheesy Over-Stuffed Hobbit)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
Unfortunately, the State of Israel is a thoroughly secular, Hellenized, "western" state, which means that it (and Tel 'Aviv in particular) is the "gay" capital of the Middle East. Even ultra-right winger Moshe Feiglin (the, lehavdil, "Ron Paul" of Israel) has met with homosexual leaders to assure them he isn't going to bother them.

It also permits practically unlimited abortion--a policy which Charedi Jews oppose. I have read a rabbi's speculation that terrorism and violence in Israel may be a punishment for allowing Halakhically indefensible abortions.

The ironic thing is that, even though Israeli policy is exactly what the "gays" want, they oppose it and support the Arabs and moslems. Why? Because Arabs and moslems are their fellow "oppressed." That those same "oppressed" moslems would kill them means absolutely nothing to them. The Hegelian dialectic (thesis/antithesis) determines where one's loyalty lies.

24 posted on 11/14/2013 2:55:34 PM PST by Zionist Conspirator (The Left: speaking power to truth since Shevirat HaKelim.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

Cyprus is a popular destination for residents of Israel who want a civil marriage.


25 posted on 11/14/2013 3:34:41 PM PST by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

“Let’s say we have a Jewish couple who are not particularly religious who were civilly married outside Israel and then went on to migrate to Israel, surely Israel will recognize that marriage”

Yes.

Also, lets say we have a Jewish couple in Israel who are NOT RELIGIOUS ( in fact, atheistic), who want to marry, where can they go if not be married civilly?

It depends. If they are both actually Jewish under the law (by birth or Orthodox conversion), they can get married pretty easily by any number of folks.

If one is not Jewish (including someone who would be considered Jewish under the law of return -— e.g., a Jewish father, but gentile mother), they can’t get married and have to go outside the country.

Same with Christians, Muslims, whatever.

You have to get married under the rules of your group.


26 posted on 11/14/2013 3:56:33 PM PST by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: GeronL

“Half the churches in this country would perform gay marriages, how would that be “un-confuddled”?”

Well, it’s like someone being baptized to me. I don’t care.

Or me having a bar mitzvah to you. You don’t care.

The Church of What’s Happening Now can declare two queers married. I’m fine with that, provided I get to say they two queers and whatever they are doing, it’s not marriage in my eyes.

It’s this second part that liberals don’t get.

They want us to recognize their perversion as legitimate.

I say, make it a non-issue and let us all be free to disagree.

And yes, I know liberals won’t agree to this, as their purpose is the destruction of Judeo-Christian heterosexual marriage.


27 posted on 11/14/2013 3:59:32 PM PST by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Zionist Conspirator

“I have read a rabbi’s speculation that terrorism and violence in Israel may be a punishment for allowing Halakhically indefensible abortions.”

Is it in English and if you could be so kind, his name, and if book, title?


28 posted on 11/15/2013 6:35:07 AM PST by huldah1776
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson