Posted on 11/18/2013 5:25:25 PM PST by xzins
Edited on 11/18/2013 5:29:03 PM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]
A United Methodist pastor was convicted Monday of breaking church law by officiating his son's same-sex wedding and could be defrocked after a high-profile trial that has rekindled debate over the denomination's policy on gay marriage.
The Methodist church put the Rev. Frank Schaefer on trial in southeastern Pennsylvania, accusing him of breaking his pastoral vows by presiding over the 2007 ceremony in Massachusetts.
(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ...
The article states that "three of his four children are gay."
Not stated in the article was whether this was three male children of four.. But either way, one has to question what gender-identifying example these children had from their dad...
No, I mean two lesbians who forsake men because they like women. But then one of the 2 women (or both) begin to act, dress, and take the role of the man/husband in the lesbian relationship.
If the “wife” in the lesbian relationship is ok with the lesbian playing the role of “man”, then why doesn’t she just get a man? And if the man in the lesbian relationship doesn’t like men, then why is she being a man?
It’s all so confusing.
The three homosexual children also made a choice...though "children" aren't capable of really understanding the ramifications and consequences of choosing homosexuality.
Apparently the "choice" is made in a person's early to mid-teens.
Do YOU think the three choice-homosexual children have a CLUE as to what they are choosing??
I wonder if the children will "change their tune" when they are out on their own. If not, then maybe it's better that they never reproduce the stupidity they've chosen.
One thing for sure, it's part of the human condition. It even happens in the animal world sometimes. I must say I have known and cherished several gay friends, men and women. I've concluded that there are two classes:
-- "Gay" folks who subconciously (or consciously!) choose that orientation for shock value or to make a statement (probably happening a lot in today's sad, confused, ignorant and lost youth)
-- Those relative few who are down-deep homosexual, had been even when they were kids and didn't recognize it except gradually, along with friends and family who loved them. I think how that kind of homosexual deals with it is between him/her and God, and my role is to act like a Christian, and look discreetly away when necessary.
Yet as important, I also have a role to defend the right to peacefully turn away and reject if one chooses the prospect of open, celebrated homosexuality in our midst, especially among children. To me, the conservative Christian doesn't seek law outlawing open homosexuality, but rather seeks to curtail law that prevents Christians from quietly, lovingly, refusing to accommodate open, declared homosexuality if they choose.
Limited government Christian conservatism says "Do away with laws punishing the exercise of personal, peaceful Christian values." No law is going to do away with homosexuality -- it's part of being in the human race. The best way to deal with it is just by being Christian.
Ah, gotcha.
I've seen that silliness and it IS silliness.
Don't be confused. They are play acting different roles of dominance and submissive. Obviously that should tell you how screwed up and immature is their image of marriage and how stupid it is for one of them to be the "dominant male."
It's a sick relationship what will fade away into acrimony and heart break. It also sounds a lot to me like TREMENDOUS immaturity, The poor women really didn't stand a chance. They'll end up on a shrink's couch wondering WHO THEY REALLY ARE.
I can love them, but ... they creep me out with those very games you're talking about, the role playing and all that. And beyond. It all gives me the heebie-jeebies!!!! Mostly I just feel sorry for them and keep it to myself when I'm around them.
Gay men are totally different from my perspective. I suppose gay men creep guys out a lot more than lesbians do! My brother once declared that he himself was a lesbian trapped in a male body -- I know, old joke, but this was many decades ago, long before I ever heard of anybody else saying that! {^) It was when he met a friend of mine who was very pretty but fancied herself a lesbian (I don't think she really was down deep, but who knows?), and he was desperately seeking a pick-up line!! {^)
-- Those relative few who are down-deep homosexual, had been even when they were kids and didn't recognize it except gradually, along with friends and family who loved them. I think how that kind of homosexual deals with it is between him/her and God, and my role is to act like a Christian, and look discreetly away when necessary.
There is no "deep-down homosexual" inclination. It is LEARNED BEHAVIOR, as we are constructed to be heterosexual.
Yet as important, I also have a role to defend the right to peacefully turn away and reject if one chooses the prospect of open, celebrated homosexuality in our midst, especially among children. To me, the conservative Christian doesn't seek law outlawing open homosexuality, but rather seeks to curtail law that prevents Christians from quietly, lovingly, refusing to accommodate open, declared homosexuality if they choose.
"Quietly, lovingly refusing"?? I had a lesbian boss and HER boss was lesbian. I was told to "try it" and I might "like it." I didn't want to be around those sick people, so I left the job. One of my better moves in life. The first lesbian boss was also a drunk. I did find THAT obnoxious too.
Limited government Christian conservatism says "Do away with laws punishing the exercise of personal, peaceful Christian values." No law is going to do away with homosexuality -- it's part of being in the human race. The best way to deal with it is just by being Christian.
Homosexuality is part of DYSFUNCTION in the human race. It is not the way we are built. Check your biology, hormones, etc. Homosexuality, bisexuality, asexuality, non-sexuality are NOT normal. There is only one way we are built from the genetic code and that is heterosexuality.
However, given that SOME people choose to be non-heterosexual, it is THEIR choice and as long as those lesbian women keep their mitts off of me, I am fine with letting them live their lives.
They MUST stay away from children, though, as it's not fair to children to sway them away from God's choice.
I am perfectly content to let our glorious Maker take care of those folks when they finally die and meet Him.
Isaiah 5:20
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.
Excellent.
Get him out of there. He has no place in a UMC pulpit.
Gay men are totally different from my perspective. I suppose gay men creep guys out a lot more than lesbians do! My brother once declared that he himself was a lesbian trapped in a male body -- I know, old joke, but this was many decades ago, long before I ever heard of anybody else saying that! {^) It was when he met a friend of mine who was very pretty but fancied herself a lesbian (I don't think she really was down deep, but who knows?), and he was desperately seeking a pick-up line!! {^)
You feel sorry for them. I don't blame you; I do too.
I have a gay nail guy, a genius with the finger/toe nails. I've known him for 20 years and have only spoken about homosexuality once. He thinks that he didn't CHOOSE it. I didn't have the heart to tell him otherwise. He's in his 50's and I have no intention of telling him otherwise.
Too bad your employer would have been sued to hell and gone by "civil rights" laws had he ousted your boss for being a lesbian, and an offensive one at that.
{^)
A weird thing about lesbians -- the hard-core ones beat the hell out each other. Domestic violence among lesbian "couples" is something else.
I'm sure glad I'm not a lesbian ... or sure glad I never felt compelled to choose to be one. "There but for the grace of God ..."
I'm sure glad I'm not a lesbian ... or sure glad I never felt compelled to choose to be one. "There but for the grace of God ..."
God didn't MAKE any lesbians. They ALL chose it. Those girls/women chose poorly and there was, apparently, NO ONE in their lives to let them know how WRONG their choice was. THAT is the saddest part of all.
I had tons of protection and I thank God for my family. I never would chose something so diametrically opposed to my every fiber of being. It would be like choosing Satan. Yikes, eternal damnation. I don't even like the SOUND of that!
Yes, that seems to be the way it is, although many will argue that it wasn't a choice, they 'discovered' that about themselves. I am also sure that they have no clue as to the depths of the trap they are putting themselves in.
There is very little data given in this story to do any in-depth dissection of the information. The son he married is now in his late 20's. How the age ranges of the two other identified-as-gay children fit in the story is not stated just as the sex of the two is not mentioned. Nor do we have a definitive statement from the other two, just this "minister's" say-so, which may only be an attempt to justify his act by covering it with some liberal touchy-feely..
If we accept as truth the statement that 75% of his children are gay there are some conclusions that we can correctly draw, and some very plausible speculations that could be offered.
First conclusion is that these odds are off balance. With generally 2-3% of population identifying as homosexual, to have 75% of siblings so identifying is way beyond the distribution curve. With developmental psyc's telling us that a child learns gender-identifying characteristics from that sex parent, a highly statistical conclusion can be drawn that this 'minister' failed miserably in presenting a clear version of 'man-ness' that his children could identify with.
There could be many scenarios that combine to produce this affect. Possibly the father was so involved in his 'ministry' that home things were relegated to the back burner leaving the sons (making an assumption for the sake of the example) to seek out male companionship and acceptance from another and opening them up to possible sexual molestation (a statistically high percentage of homosexual-identifying males acknowledge a sexual encounter with an older male often around onset of puberty.) Possibly the father even if he was 'there' was just distant and cold, again offering a skewed image of man-ness (and conveying a messed up idea of a Father God as well.) Either of these is a viable conclusion if only because of the high percentage of affected children (meaning whatever male image example he portrayed it affected all or most all of his children - as opposed to just one feeling ignored and rejected.)
We can engage in suppositioning a myriad of possibilities but we are not offered sufficient information to go much further. It is unfortunate for these children that very few who follow this path are able to "change their tune" as you say and in a large part because there is no desire to change once they have tied their self-identity to the 'gay' horse...
Good for them.
The article indicates three of the minister’s four children are gay. What are the odds of that?
The church is likely far better off not having this pastor lead a congregation. Even after he was busted, he failed to admit his wrong-doing. Not a good example.
I’ve been attending a Methodist church for the last couple of years.....I didn’t know we could have juries and such things......cool.
I'll hold my hope until I hear the sentence. Something tells me it will be somewhat lighter than community service.
Our judicial system in the United Methodist church is much like the US government's. My sense about punishment is that it will be moderate. First, the guy admitted to the gay marriage ceremony. Second, it is apparently his first offense (that's known). Third, his record to date has been positive.
Stacked against that is that he doesn't appear to be at all remorseful.
I will bet on a one or two year suspension from the pulpit along with a requirement for reflection, counseling, and study.
JMHO.
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