Posted on 11/19/2013 3:00:33 PM PST by SeekAndFind
Mars Hill Bible Church, the congregation founded by author Rob Bell, lost about 1,000 people over their former pastor's controversial 2011 book, Love Wins: A Book about Heaven, Hell, and the Fate of Every Person Who Ever Lived, according to the Grandville, Mich., megachurch's new pastor Kent Dobson.
Dobson was chosen by Mars Hill Bible Church in 2012 to replace Bell, who founded the congregation in 1999.
"There was a lot of drama with (Bell's book) Love Wins and that season feels like it's over. This year has been one of sort of settling down a bit and re-identifying our priorities, making some goals for the future and getting reinvested in some new outreach opportunities and finding our feet. (It's) a chance to open up a new chapter, enter into a new season," Dobson said of the transition since Bell's departure.
When asked about the suggestion that Mars Hill Bible Church was once home to about 10,000 people, Pastor Dobson insisted that the figure was not accurate.
"In no way was this a 10,000-member church ever. In the early days people were just intrigued (and wondering) 'What the heck is going on over there?'" said Dobson.
"I would say about 1,000 people left (over 'Love Wins'), and that's okay. I don't think even a lot of them left in anger," he added. "They just thought 'Well, Mars Hill's not the place I thought it was.' Surely some people were upset, but on the other hand it wasn't exactly a mass exodus. Rob had been saying everything in that book for five years."
Dobson told MLive.com that, nowadays, Mars Hill on average welcomes about 3,000 worshippers every Sunday.
Love Wins, which became a New York Times best seller and remains a top-seller at online book retailers, questions whether a loving God would send people to a place of eternal suffering. In the book, Bell raised and revisited questions about orthodox Christian teachings on eternity and the afterlife. Love Wins, slammed as "heretical" by some critics, resulted in response books by other Christian leaders. For example, Francis Chan released Erasing Hell: What God Said About Eternity, and the Things We Made Up and Mark Galli published God Wins: Heaven, Hell, and Why the Good News Is Better Than Love Wins.
The MLive.com Q&A with Pastor Dobson noted that some of Bell's works, including Love Wins, would be available when renowned Biblical scholar N.T. Wright visits Mars Hill Bible Church on Nov. 20 to discuss "The Big Picture: The New Testament and the Mission of God" in conjunction with a Calvin Theological Seminary conference.
Dobson said he is always asked for his opinion when Bell "says and does and publishes," and that he hopes "he continues to say things that challenge the Christian community."
"That's why we like him," added Dobson.
Bell's newest book, What We Talk About When We Talk About God (March 2013), was recently picked as the introductory title in the new "Oprah's Super Soulful Book of the Month" club. Bell and Winfrey discussed the book during his appearance on her "Super Soul Sunday" program earlier this month. Read about it here: Rob Bell Talks God, Religion and Doubt With Winfrey on 'Super Soul Sunday'.
The Michigan native, currently living in California with his wife and children, has been teaching on a series titled "What Is the Bible?" via his Tumblr page. The former megachurch pastor also occasionally holds intimate two-day teaching conferences, with his next meeting scheduled for January or February 2014.
Rob Bell is a John Shelby Spong clone.
OK... someone should explain what “Love Wins” is about.
If it basically says everyone is saved no matter what, then who would ever consider that to be Christian?
In the book LOVE WINS, Rob Bell states that :
“It’s been clearly communicated to many that this belief (in hell as conscious, eternal torment) is a central truth of the Christian faith and to reject it is, in essence, to reject Jesus. This is misguided and toxic and ultimately subverts the contagious spread of Jesus’ message of love, peace, forgiveness and joy that our world desperately needs to hear.”
In this book, Bell outlines a number of views of hell, including universal reconciliation (also known as universalism). Though he does not choose any one view as his own, he states “Whatever objections a person may have of [the universalist view], and there are many, one has to admit that it is fitting, proper, and Christian to long for it.”
“questions whether a loving God would send people to a place of eternal suffering”
He wouldn’t. People send themselves there. God has nothing to do with it. He will not force people to be with Him who do not want to be with Him.
It sickens me when populist illiterates like this tool get critical acclaim for books on religion, when they are so amateur in their thinking and critiques. Similar to Richard Dawkin’s joke of a book that made him a superstar.
Bell is not a philosopher. He’s not a theologian. He’s not a scholar. He’s a nobody, and I’m glad many people wised up to the fact that he has no business leading any kind of congregation.
"I would say about 1,000 people left (over 'Love Wins'), and that's okay. I don't think even a lot of them left in anger," he added. "They just thought 'Well, Mars Hill's not the place I thought it was.' Surely some people were upset, but on the other hand it wasn't exactly a mass exodus. Rob had been saying everything in that book for five years."
Dobson told MLive.com that, nowadays, Mars Hill on average welcomes about 3,000 worshippers every Sunday.
No matter how you slice it, someone's playing fast-and-loose with the attendance numbers (and the theology) at Mars Hill:
[Rob Bell] told The New Yorker that the publication of his book resulted in a 3,000-person decrease in membership at Mars Hill Bible Church, which he founded in 1999. "The book put pressure on the people around Bell, who found themselves having to defend statements they might never have heard, let alone approved," The New Yorker writes.
-- from the thread Rob Bell Tells How 'Love Wins' Led to Mars Hill Departure
I think that Jesus speaks with far more authority than Rob Bell. Jesus spoke of hell more than anyone else in the Bible. He said that it is so terrible that it would be worth it to cut off an arm or put out an eye if that made it possible to avoid hell.
strange stuff going on
“...whether a loving God would send people to a place of eternal suffering.”
Not much of a theologian if that is the starting premise. Scripture teaches that God gave us a choice and encourages us, reminds us, strongly calls us to choose life. God does not “send” someone, they choose to separate themselves from God and all that is good.
Is that like some folks track denominational counts.
‘Not much of a theologian if that is the starting premise. Scripture teaches that God gave us a choice and encourages us, reminds us, strongly calls us to choose life. God does not “send” someone, they choose to separate themselves from God and all that is good.”
Alvin Plantinga could and has answered that question very well
I prefer a more dark approach.
It isn’t how can God send anyone to Hell. The question is how can he not confine all of us there and how could it possibly burn hot enough?
That said, nothing would please me more than to find that hell was populated with only the devils and his demons.
Nailed it in one. The problem with wording it as "does God send people to an everlasting punishment" is that it presumes (or at least suggests) that fallen, sinful men aren't automatically going to Hell anyway, or that people are "good enough" to not go to Hell on their own.
We're all destined for Hell, unless God intervenes.
Matthew 7:15
15 “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
If memory serves, Pastor Bell started out as an ass’t at the gi-normous Calvary Church which is quite visible from I-196 just before it goes under the East Beltline. They were doing five services each Sunday, and had to address this level of traffic (I should point out that the dual-level main sanctuary reputedly took 2 acres of carpeting, I have my doubts about that number, but it’s a big space), so they polled their parishioners and found that the largest single group that drove a ways came from the Grandville-Hudsonville area. The former Grand Village Mall was offered for colonization by its owner, and that became the site of Mars Hill. I remember Bell a little, he used to be a fellow regular at my favorite-ever hang-out restaurant.
http://www.mlive.com/living/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2013/11/nt_wright_at_mars_hill_church.html
Calling Capt. Tagline!
Dang!
Seems like MormonISM is EVERYWHERE these days!
Let me help...
John 3:18
and Deut 30:19
I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;
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