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With Love and Charity to All [Mormonism's 'Catholic-bashing'; BYU plays Notre Dame today!]
Mormon Coffee (Mormonism Research Ministry) ^ | April 13, 2007 | Sharon Lindbloom

Posted on 11/23/2013 8:42:02 AM PST by Colofornian

Following the distribution of the Jesus Christ/Joseph Smith DVD last month, there have been many conversations and opinions published online regarding the Christian outreach effort. One exchange took place on the Salt Lake Tribune’s public forum.

A Catholic woman, who believes in “love and charity to all” wrote to express her dismay over the DVD distribution, ending her letter with a kind hope that Latter-day Saints had been able to enjoy their Church’s General Conference despite the “sport” engaged in by “anti-Mormons.” Perhaps this was not the most charitable and loving letter “to all” in consideration of the nature of her concerns.

At any rate, this letter brought a thankful response from a Latter-day Saint who wrote:

As an active Latter-day Saint and a returned missionary, I have gotten in more than my share of arguments with the so-called “Christians” who feel a compulsion to build their own insecure beliefs (and yes, often they were insecure) by tearing others’ beliefs down. So when I read S.J. Moormeister’s kind comments (“Anti-LDS DVDs,” Forum, April 3) I was reminded why I always liked Catholics so much during my mission.Two years and I never once had a Catholic tell me I was going to hell for my beliefs; rather, they were always kind and generous to us. Ms. Moormeister does a service to herself and to the parish that she attends. Thank you so much for not participating in the bigotry that is so common these days. I did enjoy conference very much. Thank you again.

Matthew Call

Ephraim

Mr. Call’s experience with Catholic folk was perhaps more magnanimous than he realizes, given the historic position towards Catholicism expressed by LDS leaders through the years. Consider these public declarations offered without apology (then or now):

LDS Apostle Orson Pratt:

Q. Is the Roman Catholic Church the Church of Christ?

A. No: for she has no inspired priesthood or officers…

Q. How long since the Roman Catholic Church lost the authority and ceased to be the Church of Christ?

A. She never had authority and never was the Church of Christ…

Q. Who founded the Roman Catholic Church?

A. The Devil, through the medium of Apostates… (The Seer, 1854, 205)

LDS Apostle Daniel H. Wells:

I would rather preach the Gospel to a people who have not got any religion than I would to a people who have got a great deal of religion. You take the Catholic world. What impression can the truths of the Gospel make upon them as a people? Scarcely any impression at all. Why? Because they are satisfied with what they have got, which we know is an error, and which is not calculated to stem the tide of wickedness and corruption which floods the world. It never will convert the world to God or His Kingdom, or convey a knowledge of God unto the children of men, and it is life eternal to know Him, the living and true God. (Journal of Discourses 24:320, 1883)

LDS Apostle Hyrum M. Smith:

Christianity, as it is known in the world today, has fallen far short of the accomplishment of what might have been expected of it. It has failed in establishing those principles which Christ taught among the children of men. The great Catholic division of the Christian world, the Catholic church, is a national liability to any country. It wields a great power over the minds and the hearts of the children of men, but it is a power for evil rather than for good. It brings countless thousands regularly to confession; it rarely brings a single man to repentance and the abandonment of his sins. (Conference Report, October 1916, 42)

LDS President David O. McKay:

At one time it grieved me to know that this Church was not numbered among Protestant churches. But now I realize that the Church of Christ is more than a protest against the errors and evils of Catholicism.” (Conference Report, April 1927, 105)

LDS Apostle Bruce R. McConkie:

It is also to the Book of Mormon to which we turn for the plainest description of the Catholic Church as the great and abominable church. Nephi saw this “church which is most abominable above all other churches” in vision. He “saw the devil that he was the foundation of it” and also the murders, wealth, harlotry, persecutions, and evil desires that historically have been a part of this satanic organization. (Mormon Doctrine, 1958 edition, 130)

Apparently, sometime around 1960 LDS leadership decided they ought not to say these sorts of things in public if they want to make friends in the world. If Orson Pratt and David O. McKay, et. al., publicly expressed their religious convictions today, would we find the Anti-Defamation League releasing a statement condemning their remarks as “nothing more than [Catholic]-bashing… hate directed at all of us”? And would Mr. Call agree with that? I wonder if he would rebuke his Church leaders for “build[ing] their own insecure beliefs” by “tearing others’ beliefs down.”


TOPICS: Catholic; History; Other Christian; Other non-Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: antichristian; bashing; catholic; catholicism; inman; lds; mormon; mormonism
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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Since BYU plays Notre Dame today (3:30 p.m. eastern time, NBC), I thought this might be an "appropo" posting -- to see what Lds "prophets" & "apostles" have said re: Catholics as a "backgrounder" for today's game.

For other Mormon "scriptures" applied vs. the Catholic Church, and other quotes from Lds "prophet" John Taylor and the "apostle" Pratt brothers (Romney is a direct descendent of BOTH Pratt brothers), see: Why the Mormon Church hates the Catholic

1 posted on 11/23/2013 8:42:02 AM PST by Colofornian
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To: All
Now inevitably, we'll get a FREEPER poster or two who will want to cite some Protestant leaders thruout history who have critiqued the Catholic church.

1

Frankly, in some areas, the Catholic church has indeed needed to be critiqued (after all, some Catholic leaders have critiqued other Catholic positions or trumped earlier Catholic doctrinal stances!).

2

A key difference: When a Mormon "prophet" or "apostle" speaks, it's regarded as the very "voice" of God as related to his supposed "seer and revelator" role! IoW, it's not mere leader opinion. The Mormons are bound to it -- to "honor" it as if was pseudo-"scripture."

That's a wide gap 'tween statements made by some Christian leaders in the centuries vs. Catholicism or Mormonism for that matter.

Some Christian leaders' comments thru the century may be quite discerning; others, just their opinion. But it's not on the level of Revelation chapter 23!!!

In sharp contrast, Mormonism expects its leaders' statements to be regarded as "revelations from God" offered up by their seer.

For example, anything said or done by 19th (or early 20th) century Southern Baptists wasn't said or done by either...
(a) a Southern Baptist "Pope"...
(b) a Southern Baptist head hauncho who was supposed to be God's very vocal chords on his behalf for the entire planet.

This, unfortunately wound up translating into SOME 19th century Southern Baptist leaders who gave wrongful/sinful opinions on race issues, for example -- some from the pulpit of a given church...and wrong/sinful decisions (breaking away from the Northern Baptists)

In sharp contrast, Lds "prophet" Brigham Young said he had never preached a sermon -- that upon review & correction of any notes taken down by their secretary -- that couldn't be called "scripture."

AND...this wasn't just Young's "opinion..." THIS very concept is recorded/undergirded in Lds' "sacred 'scriptures'" -- Doctrines & Covenant:

'Twas a November day 1831...when Joseph Smith said:

...this is an ensample unto ALL who were ordained unto this priesthood...and this is the ensample unto them,
that they shall speak as they are 'moved upon' by the Holy Ghost... [v. 4:] And WHATSOEVER they shall speak when moved upon by the Holy Ghost SHALL BE SCRIPTURE,
shall be the will of the Lord,
shall be the mind of the Lord,
shall be the word of the Lord,
shall be the voice of the Lord...
OFFICIAL Lds "Scripture": Doctrine & Covenants 68:2-4

2 posted on 11/23/2013 8:48:49 AM PST by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

Once the prophet has spoken the thinking has been done....


3 posted on 11/23/2013 9:00:05 AM PST by svcw (Not 'hope and change' but 'dopes in chains')
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To: svcw; All
Once the prophet has spoken the thinking has been done....

This article below might be a good thread post -- from the official magazine of the Lds church in the late 1970s:

“The Debate Is Over”

Recently, at the Churchwide fireside meeting held for the women of the Church, Young Women President Elaine Cannon made the following statement: “When the Prophet speaks, … the debate is over” (Ensign, Nov. 1978, p. 108). I was impressed by that simple statement...

Source: “The Debate Is Over”

You see, for the grassroots Mormon...any semblance of "discussion" "dialogue" "debate" -- is mere illusion.

Salt Lake City -- and its built-up 'scripture factory' -- controls it all!

4 posted on 11/23/2013 9:10:16 AM PST by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian
As an active Latter-day Saint and a returned missionary, I have gotten in more than my share of arguments with the so-called “Christians” who feel a compulsion to build their own insecure beliefs (and yes, often they were insecure) by tearing others’ beliefs down.

So Mormons will no longer be telling others that their churches have been wrong for the last how many hundreds of years after all and that Mormonism is the only OTC?

I guess Mormons can dish it out better than they can take it.

5 posted on 11/23/2013 9:31:45 AM PST by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of faith....)
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To: Colofornian

Go BYU!


6 posted on 11/23/2013 10:11:36 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy
Should be a good game, at least I'm hoping. The President of Notre Dame, Reverend Jenkins, sat down with the Mormon owned KSL TV to talk about their shared values and goals.

I had no idea the founder of Notre Dame sent 3 nuns to Salt Lake in the 1800's to help establish a hospital, which later became Holy Cross. And he said Brigham Young assisted them in their effort. Good stuff!

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=27750029

7 posted on 11/23/2013 10:25:04 AM PST by Ripliancum (Mosiah 29:27. Look it up.)
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http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=27750029
8 posted on 11/23/2013 10:28:31 AM PST by Ripliancum (Mosiah 29:27. Look it up.)
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To: Colofornian

Yet when “Catholicism” the TV series was broadcast in Utah, what was the one outlet to carry it? KBYU! Who gives by far the most coverage of Catholic events in Utah, including Knights of Columbus events? KSL, the church-owned TV station and the Deseret News, the “Mormon” newspaper.

Things are not always as they were.


9 posted on 11/23/2013 10:35:36 AM PST by Andyman (The truth shall make you FReep.)
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Comment #10 Removed by Moderator

To: Ripliancum
Should be a good game, at least I'm hoping.

Well, I'm hoping for a record-setting attempted tie-breaker. (Attempted as in "they won't be able to")

ND didn't exactly earn "conservative brownie points" by willingly choosing to host the pro-abortion socialist Obama as a speaker.

And BYU?

Well, a higher % of their non-Mormons are athletes. The better their program, the easier for them to lure non-athletes to come there & be bathed with a false Gospel.

11 posted on 11/23/2013 10:37:04 AM PST by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

All this kissy-face is making me ill!


12 posted on 11/23/2013 10:47:45 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian
Now inevitably, we'll get a FREEPER poster or two who will want to cite some Protestant leaders thruout history who have critiqued the Catholic church.

And it will, in all likelihood, that poster will be a MORMON who wants to get the thread jabbering between C's and P's so that the deceived MORMONs can slink away; relatively unscathed.

13 posted on 11/23/2013 10:49:48 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: metmom
I guess Mormons can dish it out better than they can take it.

Flying dish ALERT!!!



Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).
Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).
 
 
 
Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).
 
 
 
Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).
 
 
 
Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses
, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).
 
 
President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).
 
 
 
James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).
 
 
 
President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).
 
 
 
More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).
 
 
 
President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).
 
 
President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

14 posted on 11/23/2013 10:51:32 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: metmom
I guess Mormons can dish it out better than they can take it.

Flying dish ALERT!!!



Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).
Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).
 
 
 
Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).
 
 
 
Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).
 
 
 
Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses
, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).
 
 
President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).
 
 
 
James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).
 
 
 
President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).
 
 
 
More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).
 
 
 
President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).
 
 
President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

15 posted on 11/23/2013 10:51:44 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: metmom

Now then; we’ll wait to see how many MORMONs will disavow ANY of the above statements made by their leaders and teachers and theologians.


16 posted on 11/23/2013 10:52:53 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Ripliancum
And he said Brigham Young assisted them in their effort. Good stuff!

Ol' BY warned you guys...

Wake up and smell the brimstone!!


"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned;

and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given,

and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned.

Brigham Young - JoD 3:266 (July 14, 1855)

17 posted on 11/23/2013 10:54:23 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: teppe
Colofornian, How’ my favorite spewer of anti-Mormon bigotry?

Are YOU worried about being DAMNED?

18 posted on 11/23/2013 10:55:11 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: teppe
no innuendo, distortion or outright fabrication should be left unannounced!


The following are the LYING images that MORMONism has produced, KNOWING that they represent something FALSE!!
 
 
   
                                 

19 posted on 11/23/2013 10:56:17 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

Fuss.

Fume.

Heretic Prot haters!

Why can’t they be more loving and tolerant like OUR religion is?


20 posted on 11/23/2013 10:56:33 AM PST by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of faith....)
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To: teppe

(IoW, you don’t deny — or disagree with — ANY of the quotes made by Mormon leaders. Thanx for once again, confirming that since MormonISM is indefensible, only one route is left: Attack the poster!)


21 posted on 11/23/2013 10:59:14 AM PST by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

SInce protestants have said much the same and more against about the roman church, I don’t get your point other than to yet again bash mormons.


22 posted on 11/23/2013 11:06:30 AM PST by Nifster
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To: Nifster
SInce protestants have said much the same and more against about the roman church, I don’t get your point other than to yet again bash mormons.

Perhaps you didn't read my post #2 -- where I forecasted comments like yours...and therefore addressed it ahead of it.

23 posted on 11/23/2013 11:07:22 AM PST by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

not really you pretty much said….whatever to those who would make the observation.

You of course didn’t address the question that I asked. Don’t worry you don’t have too because I already know the answer. If you spent nearly as much time bashing other religions that will keep one away from God it might be more interesting


24 posted on 11/23/2013 11:18:59 AM PST by Nifster
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To: Nifster
not really

Sure I did: You said in your last post: "SInce protestants have said much the same and more against about the roman church, I don’t get your point..."

If I said, "I think -- or I believe thus & thus about the Catholic church" -- that = a human based understanding of the Catholic church. It might be divinely guided; it might not be. At the very least I am not claiming the very words came direct from divine vocal chords.

When Mormon leaders make claims about the Catholic church, they claim they are not just uttering human understandings -- but that they are speaking for God Himself & that what they utter is tantamount to Scripture itself.

If you can't see that difference, don't know how to make that any plainer.

So, IF you are going to make claims about what Protestants have said about Catholics, you're going to have to
(a) be specific;
and (b) attach where they said, "Thus saith the Lord..."

25 posted on 11/23/2013 11:53:43 AM PST by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

you conveniently left of the important part of the question…which is that I asked if your point was only to bash mormons…

you are all to loose with your quotations


26 posted on 11/23/2013 12:22:21 PM PST by Nifster
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To: Colofornian

Correction gladly accepted.


27 posted on 11/23/2013 12:25:49 PM PST by svcw (Not 'hope and change' but 'dopes in chains')
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To: teppe

What anti-mormon stuff has been posted?


28 posted on 11/23/2013 12:27:55 PM PST by svcw (Not 'hope and change' but 'dopes in chains')
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To: Nifster
My point is to tell the truth over what Mormon leaders have said...

In this case, the Q is: "What have Mormon leaders said about the Catholic church?"

Now, if you'd rather such questions be censored?

Or, if you don't think false statements should be exposed, your angle is highly understandable.

(Just let us know how consistent you are in that)

...bashing Mormons

Someone who exposes the homosexual agenda -- and where it falls short -- isn't "bashing" homosexuals.

Someone who exposes ObamaCare & its socialistic elements -- isn't "bashing" blacks.

Such reductionists like you would fit well in both liberal & MSM circles.

29 posted on 11/23/2013 12:28:16 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: Nifster

It’s to bash Mormonism. A worthy project, though the devil hates it.


30 posted on 11/23/2013 12:32:32 PM PST by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Colofornian

‘Such reductionists like you would fit well in both liberal & MSM circles.”

Not hardly but keep thinking so.


31 posted on 11/23/2013 12:39:34 PM PST by Nifster
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To: 1rudeboy; Ripliancum; All
Go BYU!

Well, so far, ND up 14-7 in the first quarter.

ND has had the ball twice...

And the Mormon defensive backs have thus far been guilty of ...
...pass interference (#4)
...and facemask (#11)

Hmmm...I thought these Mormons were "gods-in-embryos"???

What kind of "gods" are guilty of these kinds of violations?

32 posted on 11/23/2013 1:16:22 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: All
And the Mormon defensive backs have thus far been guilty of ...
...pass interference (#4)
...and facemask (#11)
Hmmm...I thought these Mormons were "gods-in-embryos"???
What kind of "gods" are guilty of these kinds of violations?

Well, #4 got yet another pass interference in that 2nd qtr...

What kind of Mormon football ethics do they digest in Provo?

33 posted on 11/23/2013 2:58:47 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: teppe

Talk about fixation like Rahm Emanuel never let a crisis go to waste, well here we have never waste a chance flame endless animosity nor allow healing to take place...

Peacemaker does not exist in that soul!

Matthew 5:9

9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.


34 posted on 11/23/2013 5:14:13 PM PST by restornu (Love One Another)
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To: teppe

Oh, Shiz.......!

Oh, Zeezrom........!

Oh, Kolob.......!

I mean, gag me with a curelom!


35 posted on 11/23/2013 5:17:49 PM PST by elcid1970 ("In the modern world, Muslims are living fossils.")
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To: Nifster
SInce protestants have said much the same and more against about the roman church, I don’t get your point other than to yet again bash mormons.

Any place that a MORMON has the nerve to start spouting any of their HERESY will turn in to a BASH.

Bold
ANTIs
Spotlighting
Heresy

36 posted on 11/23/2013 5:59:41 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Nifster
SInce protestants have said much the same and more against about the roman church, I don’t get your point other than to yet again bash mormons.

Surely MORMONs can get over whatever non-Mormons say about them.

What they CAN'T get over, is the thing that their very own #2 Living Prophet® said about them.

(Refer to reply #17 - this thread.)

37 posted on 11/23/2013 6:02:42 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: restornu; Elsie; greyfoxx39; Godzilla; MHGinTN
...here we have never waste a chance flame endless animosity nor allow healing to take place...

Resty, long time no hear...

Welcome back to these Lds threads!

"Healing"?? Are you implying "healing" needs to take place 'tween Catholics & Mormons?

The Mormon Church has NEVER apologized for these remarks about the Catholic Church found in this post.

38 posted on 11/23/2013 6:04:21 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: Nifster
You of course didn’t address the question that I asked

Uh; what question was that?

You first reply in this thread was at #22, and you asked NOTHING there.

Perhaps you had the invisible font turned on.

39 posted on 11/23/2013 6:05:37 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Nifster
SInce protestants have said much the same and more against about the roman church, I don’t get your point other than to yet again bash mormons.

you conveniently left of the important part of the question…which is that I asked if your point was only to bash mormons…

You said it again; but there is NO question being asked.

You ARE, however, making a statement of opinion.


you are all to loose with your quotations

Beats being loose with your logic.

40 posted on 11/23/2013 6:09:12 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: restornu
9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

DAMNED are the MORMONs who do NOT embrace polygamy!!!

41 posted on 11/23/2013 6:10:34 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: elcid1970
“By the Gift and Power of God”   http://www.lds.org/ensign/1997/01/by-the-gift-and-power-of-god
 

It's a dang gum MIRACLE I tell you!

"Now the way he translated was he put the urim and thummim into his hat and Darkned his Eyes than he would take a sentance and it would apper in Brite Roman Letters. Then he would tell the writer and he would write it. Then that would go away the next sentance would Come and so on. But if it was not Spelt rite it would not go away till it was rite, so we see it was marvelous. Thus was the hol [whole] translated."
---Joseph Knight's journal.


"In writing for your father I frequently wrote day after day, often sitting at the table close by him, he sitting with his face buried in his hat, with the stone in it, and dictating hour after hour with nothing between us."
(History of the RLDS Church, 8 vols.
(Independence, Missouri: Herald House,1951),
"Last Testimony of Sister Emma [Smith Bidamon]," 3:356.

"I, as well as all of my father's family, Smith's wife, Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris, were present during the translation. . . . He [Joseph Smith] did not use the plates in translation."
---(David Whitmer,
as published in the "Kansas City Journal," June 5, 1881,
and reprinted in the RLDS "Journal of History", vol. 8, (1910), pp. 299-300.

In an 1885 interview, Zenas H. Gurley, then the editor of the RLDS Saints Herald, asked Whitmer if Joseph had used his "Peep stone" to do the translation. Whitmer replied:

"... he used a stone called a "Seers stone," the "Interpreters" having been taken away from him because of transgression. The "Interpreters" were taken from Joseph after he allowed Martin Harris to carry away the 116 pages of Ms [manuscript] of the Book of Mormon as a punishment, but he was allowed to go on and translate by use of a "Seers stone" which he had, and which he placed in a hat into which he buried his face, stating to me and others that the original character appeared upon parchment and under it the translation in English."


"Martin Harris related an incident that occurred during the time that he wrote that portion of the translation of the Book of Mormon which he was favored to write direct from the mouth of the Prophet Joseph Smith. He said that the Prophet possessed a seer stone, by which he was enabled to translate as well as from the Urim and Thummim, and for convenience he then used the seer stone, Martin explained the translation as follows: By aid of the seer stone, sentences would appear and were read by the Prophet and written by Martin and when finished he would say 'Written,' and if correctly written that sentence would disappear and another appear in its place, but if not written correctly it remained until corrected, so that the translation was just as it was engraven on the plates, precisely in the language then used."
(Edward Stevenson, "One of the Three Witnesses,"
reprinted from Deseret News, 30 Nov. 1881
in Millennial Star, 44 (6 Feb. 1882): 86-87.)

In 1879, Michael Morse, Emma Smith's brother-in-law, stated:
 
 "When Joseph was translating the Book of Mormon [I] had occasion more than once to go into his immediate presence, and saw him engaged at his work of translation. The mode of procedure consisted in Joseph's placing the Seer Stone in the crown of a hat, then putting his face into the hat, so as to entirely cover his face, resting his elbows upon his knees, and then dictating word after word, while the scribes Emma, John Whitmer, O. Cowdery, or some other wrote it down."
(W.W. Blair interview with Michael Morse,
Saints Herald, vol. 26, no. 12
June 15, 1879,  pp. 190-91.)


Joseph Smith's brother William also testified to the "face in the hat" version:
 
"The manner in which this was done was by looking into the Urim and Thummim, which was placed in a hat to exclude the light, (the plates lying near by covered up), and reading off the translation, which appeared in the stone by the power of God"
("A New Witness for Christ in America,"
Francis W. Kirkham, 2:417.)


"The manner in which he pretended to read and interpret was the same manner as when he looked for the money-diggers, with the stone in his hat, while the book of plates were at the same time hid in the woods."
---Isaac Hale (Emma Smith's father's) affidavit, 1834.




42 posted on 11/23/2013 6:16:04 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: restornu
Talk about fixation like Rahm Emanuel never let a crisis go to waste, well here we have never waste a chance flame endless animosity nor allow healing to take place...

Peacemaker does not exist in that soul!

Well Resty; it appears that you; too; agree with your past leaders in their livid bashing of Christianity!

(Replies #14 and #15 in case you missed #14.)

Your protestations of PEACE rings a wee bit hollow.

43 posted on 11/23/2013 6:19:15 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
Don't give them ideas. Secrets must be kept don'tchaknow!
44 posted on 11/23/2013 9:53:23 PM PST by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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Use the secret decoder ring, Elsie.


45 posted on 11/23/2013 9:55:20 PM PST by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: MHGinTN

Some things are best hidden in plain sight...


46 posted on 11/24/2013 4:36:23 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

I am just curious do you feel the same way about Hindus, Buddhists, Roman Catholics, and all others who do not have your message of salvation?


47 posted on 11/24/2013 7:37:11 AM PST by Nifster
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To: Elsie

Time for some chamomile tea to settle your nerves


48 posted on 11/24/2013 7:38:16 AM PST by Nifster
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To: Nifster
I am just curious do you feel the same way about Hindus, Buddhists, Roman Catholics, and all others who do not have your message of salvation?

In case YOU haven't noticed; none of these groups say they are the only true Christians in the world; and then turn around and BASH the 'other' christians.

49 posted on 11/24/2013 11:33:45 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Nifster
Time for some chamomile tea to settle your nerves

Good advice!

Does it work on MORMONs who KNOW that they are HELL-BOUND for NOT embracing POLYGAMY?

50 posted on 11/24/2013 11:35:19 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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