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Again HUGE news: Pope Francis explicitly endorses Benedict XVI’s “hermeneutic of continuity”
WDTPRS ^ | 11/23/2013 | Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Posted on 11/23/2013 11:39:06 AM PST by markomalley

You will want to read this carefully and put it in your “IMPORTANT” file.

This is, again, HUGE news.

The 450th anniversary of the closing of the Council of Trent is coming up on 4 December.  We like to celebrate these great milestones in salvation history.  So, there are great doings in Trent, in the northern area of Italy which is part of the (also) German-speaking Tirol.  As is customary, Pope Francis will send a Cardinal as his personal representative.  Who better than His Eminence Walter Card. Brandmüller?

When the Pope sends a Cardinal off on one of these missions, he sends him a formal letter, charging him with his task and indicating something of his own hopes for the occasion.  The anniversary of the closing of the Council of Trent is no exception.

In his letter to Card. Brandmüller, Pope Francis explicitly cites Pope Benedict XVI pontificate-defining address in 2005 to the Roman Curia in which he spoke about the “hermeneutic of discontinuity and rupture” (e.g., the Karl Rahner crowd and their descendants, still active today) and the “hermeneutic of reform”, or “hermeneutic of continuity”.

In this explicit reference Francis is aligning himself with Benedict and that key moment and concept underlying Benedict’s pontificate.

This comes in the wake of Francis writing to Archbishop Marchetto (refresh your memory HERE), a critic of one of the powerhouses of the ”hermeneutic of discontinuity and rupture”, the so-called “Bologna School” of interpretation of the Council.  Francis surely broke a lot of liberal hearts when he referred to Marchetto (who in this matter is completely aligned with Benedict) as one of the best interpreters of the Council that he knows.

The letter of Francis to Card. Brandmüller is available in the Latin original in the Bollettino.  Here is my rapid translation of the first part of the letter, which is the important part.  I scaled down some of the flowery stuff. The second part is the usual boilerplate and of less interest.

To our Venerable Brother
Walter Cardinal (of the Holy Roman Church) Brandmüller
Deacon of St. Julian of the Flemish

Since the 450th anniversary of the day on which the Council of Trent drew to its favorable end, it is fitting that the Church recall with readier and more attentive eagerness the most rich doctrine which came out of that Council held in the Tyrol. It is certainly not without good reason that the Church has for a long time given such great care to that Council’s decrees and canons which are to be recalled and heeded, seeing that, since extremely grave matters and questions sprang up in that period, the Council Fathers employed all their diligence so that the Catholic faith should come into clearer view and be better understood. Without a doubt as the Holy Spirit inspired and prompted them, it was the Fathers’ greatest concern not only that the sacred deposit of Christian doctrine be defended, but also that mankind be more brightly illuminated, in order that the saving work of the Lord could be diffused throughout the entire globe and the Gospel be spread through the whole world.

Harking closely to the same Spirit, Holy Church in this age renews and meditates on the most abundant doctrine of the Council of Trent. In fact, the “hermeneutic of renewal” [interpretatio renovationis] which Our Predecessor Benedict XVI explained in 2005 before the Roman Curia, refers in no way less to the Council of Trent than to the Vatican Council. To be sure, this mode of interpretation places under a brighter light a beautiful characteristic of the Church which is taught by the Lord Himself: “She is a ‘subject’ which increases in time and develops, yet always remaining the same, the one subject of the journeying People of God” (Address of His Holiness Benedict XVI to the Roman Curia offering them his Christmas greetings – 22 December 2005).

[...]

This is a significant letter.

First, it affirms that we can indeed, and rightly, Read Francis Through Benedict.

Second, it affirms that Francis is, and rightly, reading Francis Through Benedict.

Third, it strikes me that Pope Francis is making some course corrections.  He may have perceived that some in “the world” (e.g., liberals, the MSM) are not reading him accurately.  His experience with the “interview” by Scalfari ought to have made that evident.  In addition to liberal misperceptions and distorted interpretations, he has also been misjudged by many on the more conservative side of the spectrum.

As I have said all along, Pope Francis – like every Pope – has to learn how to be Pope.  He had less of an advantage coming to the See of Peter because he had not been in or around the Roman Curia.  But he is adjusting, learning, transforming.  Francis, as you can see everyday, is not static in his job.  He isn’t simply on cruise control.

Continue to pay close attention to Pope Francis, not just in sound-bites, but in the larger arcs of his talks and speeches and written documents.

This is not a bone thrown to conservatives.  This is the real deal.  This is Francis.


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1 posted on 11/23/2013 11:39:06 AM PST by markomalley
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To: markomalley

**As I have said all along, Pope Francis – like every Pope – has to learn how to be Pope. He had less of an advantage coming to the See of Peter because he had not been in or around the Roman Curia. But he is adjusting, learning, transforming. Francis, as you can see everyday, is not static in his job. He isn’t simply on cruise control.

Continue to pay close attention to Pope Francis, not just in sound-bites, but in the larger arcs of his talks and speeches and written documents.

This is not a bone thrown to conservatives. This is the real deal. This is Francis.**

I think Fr. Z nails it here.


2 posted on 11/23/2013 11:41:53 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

The trouble with catholics is that they have to make up a vocabulary that is so contorted that an average person can not understand them. I will stick with the charismatics as their speaking in tongs is soothing next to the put on super intellect put out by the catholics.


3 posted on 11/23/2013 11:48:21 AM PST by mountainlion (Live well for those that did not make it back.)
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To: mountainlion

so what vocabulary is made up here?


4 posted on 11/23/2013 11:51:04 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: mountainlion

tongues


5 posted on 11/23/2013 11:57:55 AM PST by Berlin_Freeper (What we said when we said what we said was. Period. End of story.)
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To: markomalley; Tax-chick; GregB; Berlin_Freeper; SumProVita; narses; bboop; SevenofNine; ...

Ping!


6 posted on 11/23/2013 11:59:51 AM PST by NYer ("The wise man is the one who can save his soul. - St. Nimatullah Al-Hardini)
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To: markomalley

What I find interesting is the fact that the Jesuit’s main role in their beginning was to put the rules of the Council of Trent into action. Now we have a Pope who will be finishing the details.


7 posted on 11/23/2013 12:14:48 PM PST by Slyfox (Satan's goal is to rub out the image of God he sees in the face of every human.)
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To: markomalley

The Modernists and Leftists are always hoping for an Episcopalian Pope. They are necessarily always disappointed.God is not a Modernist.


8 posted on 11/23/2013 12:25:40 PM PST by ThanhPhero (Khách sang La Vang hanh huong tham vieng Maria)
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To: Salvation

so what vocabulary is made up here?

“hermeneutic of continuity”, What is that supposed to mean?

I am not uneducated but if Catholics want to bring people into their church they need to use common language so the people know what they are talking about.


9 posted on 11/23/2013 12:33:01 PM PST by mountainlion (Live well for those that did not make it back.)
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To: Berlin_Freeper

tongues

Sell check is such a help.

Thanks


10 posted on 11/23/2013 12:34:17 PM PST by mountainlion (Live well for those that did not make it back.)
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To: mountainlion

Spell


11 posted on 11/23/2013 12:40:40 PM PST by Berlin_Freeper (What we said when we said what we said was. Period. End of story.)
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To: Berlin_Freeper

Spell

I think I am distracted a bit. Which is more important spelling or typing? May they are equal.


12 posted on 11/23/2013 12:44:11 PM PST by mountainlion (Live well for those that did not make it back.)
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To: markomalley

After getting burnt by a journalist and a politician, HH seems intent on letting his intentions be known.


13 posted on 11/23/2013 12:47:50 PM PST by pbear8 (the Lord is my light and my salvation)
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To: mountainlion

I think we all know what continuity means, yes? If so, we can get the point.


14 posted on 11/23/2013 12:50:37 PM PST by EnquiringMind
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To: mountainlion
It seems, most important is using...
common language so the people know what they are talking about.

15 posted on 11/23/2013 12:52:27 PM PST by Berlin_Freeper (What we said when we said what we said was. Period. End of story.)
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To: Berlin_Freeper

George Washington went to a Dutch church and set listening 5 hours to the Pastor in Dutch, which he did not understand. A lot of talk is Greek to me.


16 posted on 11/23/2013 12:59:02 PM PST by mountainlion (Live well for those that did not make it back.)
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To: mountainlion

Did George Washington make a complaint about it?


17 posted on 11/23/2013 1:01:23 PM PST by Berlin_Freeper (What we said when we said what we said was. Period. End of story.)
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To: Berlin_Freeper

George Washington did not complain as he held going to church in high regard. He was already knowledgeable of God. I expect that he knew many languages and had a much deeper understand than generations now. I guess I expect much form a church especially now. I guess this forum is really not for evangelism nor an elementary education.


18 posted on 11/23/2013 1:10:44 PM PST by mountainlion (Live well for those that did not make it back.)
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To: mountainlion

Well, good grief, they don’t talk about the hermeneutic of continuity during mass or anything.


19 posted on 11/23/2013 1:17:43 PM PST by bboop (does not suffer fools gladly)
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To: mountainlion

“charismatics as their speaking in tongs”

Strange. I thought they spoke in spatula.

“The trouble with catholics is that they have to make up a vocabulary that is so contorted that an average person can not understand them.”

The average UNEDUCATED person, maybe. Those who are educated have less difficulty understanding the vocabulary used by particular defined groups. Having said that, what group has an easily understood vocabulary - easily understood by the “average person” anyway? Jews? Nope. Evangelicals? Not really? Are you a post, mid-, or pre-, millenialist, for instance? Are you a Preterist? Get the point?


20 posted on 11/23/2013 1:21:16 PM PST by vladimir998
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To: mountainlion

I am glad you have an interest in becoming a Catholic but this particular thread wasn’t posted as with the object of conversion.


21 posted on 11/23/2013 1:22:17 PM PST by Berlin_Freeper (What we said when we said what we said was. Period. End of story.)
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To: mountainlion

continuity is easy — continuing line of thought, so to speak


22 posted on 11/23/2013 1:33:24 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: mountainlion

I am sorry for some of the responses you got. I think it’s a valid request/concern. Let’s remember that many of the saints were not learned folks, but simple folk. Then again, I’m Catholic and I find this particular phrase troublesome, so maybe that’s why I understand you.


23 posted on 11/23/2013 1:33:45 PM PST by piusv
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To: mountainlion

hermeneutic — explaining Scripture, interpreting Sacred Scriptures and inquiring into their true meaning

These are both common English words...look what you learned today. Good luck with your next SCRABBLE game.


24 posted on 11/23/2013 1:37:40 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: piusv; mountainlion

Now that we know what you don’t like about the Catholic Church - what is it that you do like that brought your interest to this thread?


25 posted on 11/23/2013 1:51:14 PM PST by Berlin_Freeper (What we said when we said what we said was. Period. End of story.)
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To: Salvation

And this is from a Catholic dictionary on line.

Don’t know how else one would put it into one word.

I am an English teacher and I had to look it up . Don’t know when I’ll expect to not ever have to look up a word, but...

It’s the Catholic rules and regs of interpreting the Bible.

Maybe it gets people perplexed whose outlook includes both being able to interpret the Bible at will, or who believe, and need to believe, that the Catholic Church does not consult the Bible.

But there it is.

“Derived from a Greek word connected with the name of the god Hermes, the reputed messenger and interpreter of the gods. It would be wrong to infer from this that the word denotes the interpretation or exegesis of Sacred Scripture. Usage has restricted the meaning of hermeneutics to the science of Biblical exegesis, that is, to the collection of rules which govern the right interpretation of Sacred Scripture. Exegesis is therefore related to hermeneutics, as language is to grammar, or as reasoning is to logic. Men spoke and reasoned before there was any grammar or logic; but it is very difficult to speak correctly and reason rightly at all times and under any circumstances without a knowledge of grammar and logic. In the same way our early Christian writers explained Sacred Scripture—as it is interpreted in particular cases even in out days by students of extraordinary talent—without relying on any formal principles of hermeneutics, but such explanations, if correct, will always be in accordance with the canons of our present-day science of exegesis.

Necessity of hermeneutics

The reader must not infer from what has been said that hermeneutics is a mere accomplishment in the Biblical exegete, that its knowledge is not necessary for the Bible student. It is true that in the early Church the science of exegesis was not developed; but it must be remembered that the so-called sacred languages were the vernacular tongues of the Syrian and Greek writers, who were familiar with what are to us Biblical antiquities, and who were also imbued with the early oral traditions containing the true explanation of the many difficult passages of Sacred Scripture. As soon as these natural aids of the Christian interpreter began to wane, the principles of hermeneutics began to develop. Even at the time of St. Augustine they were collected into a single book, so that they could be made known and put into practice without much difficulty. Anyone acquainted with the variety of opinion concerning the meaning of some of the most important passages of the Bible will wonder rather at the suggestion of explaining Scripture without the aid of hermeneutics, than at the claim for its urgent necessity.”

New Advent Catholic Dictionary


26 posted on 11/23/2013 1:57:07 PM PST by stanne
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To: stanne

Thanks for all that information including the etymology.


27 posted on 11/23/2013 1:59:33 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Berlin_Freeper

Oh please. You’re taking mountainlion’s comment way too personally.


28 posted on 11/23/2013 2:01:56 PM PST by piusv
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To: stanne

Wow, and you’re EDUCATED!


29 posted on 11/23/2013 2:02:36 PM PST by piusv
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To: stanne
exegesis
30 posted on 11/23/2013 2:03:27 PM PST by Berlin_Freeper (What we said when we said what we said was. Period. End of story.)
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To: piusv

I asked a simple question out of curiosity that a person interested in becoming a Catholic should be happy to answer.

You made it personal by pompously apologizing for others.


31 posted on 11/23/2013 2:10:10 PM PST by Berlin_Freeper (What we said when we said what we said was. Period. End of story.)
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To: Salvation

I like the etymology, it usually provides a good reference for imagery, plus an easy way for me to recall meaning.

With church documents, I am often going to the dictionary, and I always want to know the Latin root, for the purpose of understanding.

People forget that the language of the Church is and understanding its theology and philosophy can take a little work.


32 posted on 11/23/2013 2:10:24 PM PST by stanne
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To: Berlin_Freeper

From the New Advent def. I posted:

“Exegesis is therefore related to hermeneutics, as language is to grammar, or as reasoning is to logic”

I’d have had to look up exegesis, anyway.


33 posted on 11/23/2013 2:13:23 PM PST by stanne
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To: Berlin_Freeper

You mean like how you arrogantly told ML that the thread wasn’t posted for conversion purposes? LOL Pot meet kettle.

But you’re right, I shouldn’t apologize for others’ poor behavior. They should. Let’s see if they do.


34 posted on 11/23/2013 2:14:10 PM PST by piusv
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To: markomalley

Way to communicate with the masses.

What the heck is a “hermeneutic”?


35 posted on 11/23/2013 2:16:24 PM PST by miserare (Sebelius is Obama's Mengele.)
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To: stanne
compared to:
critical explanation or interpretation of a text or portion of a text, especially of the Bible.
Which is probably more easily understood.
36 posted on 11/23/2013 2:18:42 PM PST by Berlin_Freeper (What we said when we said what we said was. Period. End of story.)
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To: Berlin_Freeper
interpretation
37 posted on 11/23/2013 2:19:29 PM PST by Berlin_Freeper (What we said when we said what we said was. Period. End of story.)
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To: piusv

Some say “ejumucated, but...

I know. My tenth graders consider it a they singular torture that they pretend they’ll never have to perform again, once they leave High School, indeed, my class, looking things up in a dictionary.

I know people who don’t own a dictionary - wow.

But, there you have it.

And the Catholic Church has, as its official language, Latin. It’s a universal language, unused in speaking, so, interpreted in the same way throughout the world And unchangeable, so, propaganda proof. the enemy Hates it, I am told, which, if true, is very nice.

I does take a little effort for the curious.


38 posted on 11/23/2013 2:21:04 PM PST by stanne
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To: Berlin_Freeper

This country needs revival and we need people coming to God.


39 posted on 11/23/2013 2:22:13 PM PST by mountainlion (Live well for those that did not make it back.)
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To: Berlin_Freeper

Again HUGE news: Pope Francis explicitly endorses Benedict XVI’s “critical explanation or interpretation of a text or portion of a text, especially of the Bible, of continuity”

Like this?

To appease the dictionary repellant?

Isn’t, ‘the dumbing down’ of America something considered not good?


40 posted on 11/23/2013 2:23:55 PM PST by stanne
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To: piusv

My reply wasn’t arrogant in the least. I was directly responding to the point he was trying to make.

Good that you admitted your arrogance though.

But don’t worry - I apologize for you and your silly waste of people’s time - LoL!


41 posted on 11/23/2013 2:26:07 PM PST by Berlin_Freeper (What we said when we said what we said was. Period. End of story.)
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To: mountainlion

I’m not sure but I think it means a continual (or maybe even consistent) way of interpreting the Word of God (deposit of faith) given to the Church at Pentecost. As opposed to a disjunct or discontinuous (that apparently modernists apply, according to this article at least) way of interpreting His Word.

In other words it may seem obvious that the Church should never be inconsistent in her teachings but some clearly believe that our teachings should “change with the times”.

Hope this helps!


42 posted on 11/23/2013 2:26:12 PM PST by FourtySeven (47)
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To: stanne
I have a very high mechanical ability but dyslexia and strange words sometimes become impossible. Explaining god Hermies will be how I try to remember the word hermeneutics.
43 posted on 11/23/2013 2:27:54 PM PST by mountainlion (Live well for those that did not make it back.)
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To: stanne
We need to expect much more from a Church.
44 posted on 11/23/2013 2:28:20 PM PST by Berlin_Freeper (What we said when we said what we said was. Period. End of story.)
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To: Berlin_Freeper

Spoonfeeding, perhaps?


45 posted on 11/23/2013 2:29:22 PM PST by stanne
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To: Berlin_Freeper
My reply wasn’t arrogant in the least. I was directly responding to the point he was trying to make.

Suuuure. Good that you admitted your arrogance though.

Which, in effect, is not being arrogant. But don’t worry - I apologize for you and your silly waste of people’s time - LoL!

Nope, you're not arrogant at all.

46 posted on 11/23/2013 2:32:55 PM PST by piusv
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To: FourtySeven

Best post in this thread.


47 posted on 11/23/2013 2:37:12 PM PST by piusv
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To: Berlin_Freeper

Catholic Definition:

INTERPRETATION

Giving the meaning or explanation of something, as of a doctrine, law, or statement of purpose. It is authentic when given by the Church’s teaching authority and calls for obedient acceptance by the faithful; doctrinal when the Church exercises her magisterial right to teach the way of salvation; broad when the explanation of a law favors liberty; and narrow when the explanation limits human freedom.

All items in this dictionary are from Fr. John Hardon’s Modern Catholic Dictionary, © Eternal Life. Used with permission.


48 posted on 11/23/2013 3:01:18 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: mountainlion
The trouble with catholics is that they have to make up a vocabulary that is so contorted that an average person can not understand them. I will stick with the charismatics as their speaking in tongs is soothing next to the put on super intellect put out by the catholics.

The task of talking down to you is made much easier when using unnecessarily large words. I see you weren't intimidated and brought it to their attention. Good for you. There is no need for much of their showy display of verbal skills but it makes them feel better (superior?) about themselves so we should try to look over it. YMMV

49 posted on 11/23/2013 3:08:48 PM PST by BipolarBob
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To: markomalley

May God bless and keep our Holy Father.


50 posted on 11/23/2013 4:10:52 PM PST by Bigg Red (Let me hear what God the LORD will speak. -Ps85)
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