Posted on 11/27/2013 6:13:19 AM PST by NYer
Apparently you slept through Theology class, bible school and kindergarten.
As a Catholic you also know that the Church has its own set of laws. The Church has decided celibacy to be one of those laws. Just as it started in the Middle Ages so can the Church repeal it down the road. Since this is not an issue of doctrine, this is a non-issue for me.
“when jesus Christ set down these rules, he didn’t forsee the great strides in equality we would make in America in the 21st century”
Apparently you slept through Theology class, bible school and kindergarten.
ok, seriously, god couldn’t forsee? did you people think I was serious?
i can understand the Massachusetts eeoc thinking that is possible someone believes we are superior, but here?
As piusv pointed out, the problem is right there. They can make their own rules up as they go. After all, they are THE CHURCH. Israel was/is Gods chosen but that didn't keep them from sin, idolatry and failure. As long as pride and arrogance guide them, they will continue on their pathway. The Bible has all of the answers if we are willing to read it. Peter had a mother-in-law and there no indication whether he was widowed, divorced or still wed. It didn't matter as long as he did his work.
This is not well supported by Scripture, Ravenwolf. The Church has always been, and still is still made up of sinners.
Also i do not see the kingdom of God as being the same as the kingdom of heaven.
The kingdom of God is within you now, but at the great harvest you will be gathered up to heaven.
I say you, but i hope me too.
Pope Francis says “Male priesthood and abortion? I’m not changing them. I can’t.” and nobody says a thing.
Pope Francis says “Capitalism ain’t perfect” and everybody loses their minds.
" The Church has always been, and still is still made up of sinners....
You make a good point but i was referring to the claim of the Churches and the Popes infallibility"
Infallibility is in no way contradicted by the Church being made up of sinners (including the pope, of course.) Infallibility does not mean sinlessness. In fact, infallbility doesn't even mean some power to be an all-purpose oracle and say the right thing at all times.
All infallibility is, is a gift which protects the Church from being damaged by the mistaken opinions of popes. It's an entirely "negative" gift: it means error-prone popes will not be able to inflict theological errors on the Church on matters of faith and morals.
This humorous but pointed video may be entertaining to you: it sure was to me:
How to Explain Papal Infallibility in Two Minutes (YouTube Link)
Have a wonderful Thanksgiving, ravenwolf!
The question is not if there are, or were exceptions, but rather what was the norm. There are those who are trying to posit a married clergy prior to the Middle Ages as an attack on celibacy today. Notwithstanding any exceptions either now or then, a celibate (or at least non-cohabitating) clergy has been the norm in the Latin church from apostolic times. A celibate clergy was not an invention of the Middle Ages.
All infallibility is, is a gift which protects the Church from being damaged by the mistaken opinions of popes.
I don,t have video but thanks and you also have a good thanksgiving.
Unfortunately for you, I wasn’t talking about doctrine, I was talking about disciplinary laws.
Here is what I know about the policy of priestly celibacy. There is NOTHING in the Bible, the Old Testament, the New Testament, the Gospels, the teachings of Jesus, that mandate or require a celibate priesthood. Nothing. At least nothing that I can find. Sure, you can find passages, here and there which recommend abstinence and chastity for some people in certain circumstances IF they can achieve it. But nothing mandatory. The early Catholic Church had married popes, bishops, and priests. As late at the 11th and 12th centures, the clergy was overwhelmingly married men-—priests and bishops alike. The imposition of mandatory and required priestly celibacy therefore was put into full force in the Middle Ages for reasons (many of which are no longer valid today) unrelated to the teachings of Jesus or anything that can be found in the Bible.
And as Catholics, we are not Sola Scriptura. I’m not looking to argue with you over this. If you believe that everything the Church dictates HAS to come from the Bible, then perhaps you aren’t Catholic.
First of all, I am a Catholic. Recently they made changes in the Mass. For example, instead of saying to the priest,”and also with you”,we now say “and with your spirit”...plus some other changes as well. I asked the priest why they are making these changes to the Mass, and he said they were just trying to get back to the original meaning of the original Mass which was changed in the Middle Ages. If they can do this with the Mass, then surely they can do this with other policies which were instituted uring the Middle Ages, including the policy of celibacy. BTW I have two vocations myself: I am a member of Knights of Columbus and I am a Eucharistic Minister. I have studied the Bible extensively as well as Church history.
(1) I already said this is a discipline matter and yes, disciplines CAN change. Someday we may see married priests. I personally like the discipline of the Church and would hate to see that, but it would be a change that wouldn’t alarm me (ie. not doctrinal).
(2) Either you misunderstood your priest or your priest is clueless but the change you are speaking of in the mass was a change back to the correct English translation of the original Latin. When Vatican II radically changed the Mass, the vernacular didn’t always translate well. It has NOTHING to do with the Middle Ages.
If you read much about early Christian history I think you will find that virginity was very popular with both women and men. Many of the martyrs were virgins and the Roman Catacombs are filled with such admissions. You may also want to check out a Corinthians 7: 1-3 and other passages where Paul advises that to have full attention to one’s service to God one needs to have no other allegiances. This does not mean he is against marriage.
God bless Pope Francis.
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Amen. Jesus chose the Apostles. That is all that we need to know.
What a great question.
Sure. You can find many passages in the Bible-—many from St. Paul-—encouraging certain people at certain times to practice abstinence and chastity IF they are capable of it.
What you cannot find, or at least what I cannot find is any passage in either the Old or the New Testament, or the Gospels, or any teachings of Jesus which mandate a celibate priesthood as a condition for serving the Church.
Corruption (sin) is in the heart of all men and women. Priests, pastors, nuns, bishops, etc. are no exceptions.
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