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“I Haven’t Killed Anyone!” What Serious Sins Will Exclude Us From the Kingdom of God?
Homiletic & Pastoral Review ^ | November 21, 2013 | Ralph Martin, S.T.D.

Posted on 11/28/2013 5:54:01 AM PST by NYer

Why aren’t we more concerned about how even many of our fellow Catholics are engaging in behaviors (“lifestyles”), or accepting, or even approving them, in others, that scripture says will exclude them from the kingdom?

A soul being rescued from purgatory.

Right after Vatican II, there was an explosion of interest in moral theology. The “fundamental option” theory gained wide notice in both scholarly journals and in popular Catholic culture. Many people got the impression—and many still have it—that if one’s overall life is pointed in a good direction, particular sinful acts may not exclude us from the kingdom. This interpretation was definitively rejected in Blessed John Paul II’s important encyclical on the moral life, Veritatis Splendor.(Henceforth, VS)

The Pope definitively taught, in continuity with the Church’s tradition, that particular acts can change our fundamental option, and that we can’t dissociate a fundamental option “for God” from particular acts of the body that contradict such an option. The Pope reaffirmed the teaching of the Council of Trent and of Scripture, that our salvation can be lost, not only by acts of apostasy by which faith itself is lost, but also by any other mortal sin. The Pope repeats the usual teaching that mortal sin involves grave matter, sufficient reflection, and full consent of the will. (VS 49, 67- 68)

Another source of confusion after Vatican II were trends in moral theology that exalted the role of individual conscience in making moral choices, without sufficiently stressing that we have an obligation to seek out the truth about what is right and wrong, and act in accordance with it, as opposed to “deciding for ourselves” what we think is right and wrong.

Again, (soon to be “Saint”) John Paul II taught that the moral law is to be recognized, discovered in the reflection of reason and attention to Divine Revelation, and that conscience is the application of this natural—embedded in human nature and susceptible to discovery by the intellect—and divine—explicitly and fully revealed in the Sacred Scripture—moral law in particular circumstances. The moral law is to be discovered and obeyed, with the help of grace, not “thought up” or “made up,” or “received” from a post-Christian culture, or determined by what is legal, or by what the majority think is right or wrong, or a by pastiche of personal opinions and preferences. (VS 36, 40, 58-60)

And like Vatican II, Veritatis Splendor called for a greater attention to Sacred Scripture in the grounding of moral theology. Let’s look now at some particular texts of Scripture that spell out in some detail what acts will exclude us from the kingdom of God, if not repented from. Before we do so, let’s recall the way the Catholic Church views the authority and reliability of Scripture.

Since, therefore, all that the inspired authors, or sacred writers, affirm should be affirmed by the Holy Spirit, we must acknowledge that the books of Sacred Scripture, firmly, faithfully and without error, teach that truth which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see confided to the sacred Scriptures. (Dei Verbum 11).

And now some important texts (I’m bolding some sentences for emphasis):

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived, neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers, will inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Cor 6:9-10)

And, as Paul often does, he repeats what is particularly important for us to understand:

For you were called to freedom, brethren: only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love be servants of one another … Now the works of the flesh are plain: immorality, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. (Gal 5:13, 19-21)

We also find this clear warning in Ephesians:

Be sure of this, that no immoral or impure man, or one who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for it is because of these things that the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. (Eph 5:5-6)

And, again, in the book of Revelation:

Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates. Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and fornicators and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. (Rev 22:14-15)

If we’re not shocked by these texts, we haven’t been paying attention. A lot of seriously sinful acts have the potential to exclude us from the Kingdom. Take fornication as an example. We live in a culture that has come to accept fornication (sexual relations between two unmarried persons of the opposite sex) as normal and morally permissible. This belief has become common, even among Catholics. Many priests and deacons lament how pervasive it has become for Catholics to engage in sexual relationships with each other outside of marriage, who also wish to get married “in church.”

Or take the matter of the active practice of homosexuality (in contrast to homosexual inclination that is not acted on). Again, many Catholics, particularly young Catholics, just in the last 10 years have come to believe that active homosexuality is morally permissible, and should be viewed with equal regard—and even recognized as “marriage”—on an equivalent basis with heterosexual marriage.

Or how about greed or covetousness? Or anger or jealousy? When greed or covetousness or anger or jealousy is not just a passing inclination or emotion, but is something that is given in to and willed, often leading to other sinful actions, Scripture indicates that this will exclude us from the kingdom. It was out of jealousy that the Jewish leaders desired to kill Jesus, and, then “filled with jealousy,” the apostles. (Acts 5:17; 13: 45) Jesus made clear that it may not only be evil choices of the will that lead to subsequent sinful actions that will exclude us from the kingdom, but also even if we “only” harden our hearts in these wicked complex of thoughts, attitudes, and emotions that, in itself, can exclude us from the kingdom. (Mt. 5:20-32) The anger that hardens into unforgiveness, for example, may seal us off from God’s mercy. Every time we pray the Lord’s Prayer, we ask that God measure forgiveness to us as we measure it to others!

It is not uncommon to hear people say: “Well, most people are good, they’re not murderers!” As is clear from the lists above, murder is only one of a number of actions that can exclude people from the kingdom. Unfortunately, some of the most popular and widespread sins—which in many cases are no longer considered sins—can exclude us from the kingdom as well.

Why aren’t we more concerned about how even many of our fellow Catholics are engaging in behaviors (“lifestyles”), or accepting, or even approving them, in others, that scripture says will exclude them from the kingdom?

One reason is that we have heard that it is virtually impossible to commit a mortal sin, and that most of the people who appear to be committing mortal sins, since they are doing things that are objectively and gravely wrong, are not giving sufficient reflection to what they are doing, or giving full consent of the will—the other two conditions necessary for mortal sin. Blessed John Paul II, aware of this line of reasoning, that would make the actual existence of mortal sins very rare, reaffirms the traditional teaching:

Both in moral theology and in pastoral practice one is familiar with cases in which an act which is grave by reason of its matter does not constitute a mortal sin because of a lack of full awareness or deliberate consent on the part of the person performing it. Even so, “care will have to be taken not to reduce mortal sin to an act of ‘fundamental option’ – as is commonly said today – against ‘God”, seen either as an explicit and formal rejection of God and neighbor or as an implicit and unconscious rejection of love. “For mortal sin exists also when a person knowingly and willingly, for whatever reason, chooses something gravely disordered. In fact, such a choice already includes contempt for the divine law, a rejection of God’s love for humanity and the whole of creation: the person turns away from God and loses charity. Consequently, the fundamental orientation can be radically changed by particular acts.” (VS 70the internal quote is from Reconciliatio et Paenitentia, 17)

Another reason we seem to be rather unconcerned about the growing numbers of Catholics engaging in, or approving of, gravely wrong actions and lifestyles is that we have heard that they probably are in “good conscience” and have, in their own consciences, decided that such behavior is morally permissible.

Reflections on the Current Situation

It’s true that many Catholics today have never heard clear and authoritative teaching on what serious sin is, and why it excludes us from the kingdom of God. The failure of those charged with preaching and teaching to clearly communicate such important truth has clearly contributed to the current confusion. But does this make Catholics who engage in these behaviors guiltless? Are they truly not culpable for their ignorance? Only God can judge individual cases, but there are some considerations that should give us pause.

First of all, Scripture (and Church teaching) make clear that apart from all preaching and teaching, God himself reveals basic truths to the human race, both as regards his existence, and as to the basics of the moral law. In other words, every person, whatever their exposure to Church teaching has been, or even if it has been non-existent, has been enlightened to some extent by God himself, and will be held accountable to how they have responded to the light they have been given.

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and wickedness of men who by their wickedness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse; for although they knew God they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking and their senseless minds were darkened. (Rom 1: 18-21)

Not only is God’s existence revealed, and the implied obligation to seek him and discover his will, but also the basic elements of the moral law is also revealed to each person.

Romans 2 makes clear that each person will be judged on the basis of their response to the measure of light that God gave them, whether Jew or Gentile.

Do you suppose, O man, that when you judge those who do such things and yet do them yourself, you will escape the judgment of God? Or do you presume upon the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience? Do you not know that God’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? But by your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed. For he will render to every man according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are factious and do not obey the truth, but obey wickedness, there will be wrath and fury. There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. For God shows no partiality” (Rom 2: 3-11).

This truth is clearly affirmed by the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

Unintentional ignorance can diminish or even remove the imputabililty of a grave offense. But no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man (CCC 1860).

Secondly, the immoral behavior can itself be evidence that underlying such immorality is a prior culpable rejection of God’s revelation of himself that is given to all human beings.

Most chillingly, Scripture reveals that the spiritual rebellion, the refusal to submit to God’s light, leads to an intellectual blindness and moral depravity. The very blindness and bondage to sin is itself a judgment of God on the fundamental sin of unbelief, and refusal to obey. The wickedness is compounded by urging others to abandon the “narrow way that leads to life,” and join the wicked on the “broad way that leads to destruction”(Mt 7:13-14). Celebrating and approving immorality is characteristic of the darkened mind, and a sign of God’s judgment. When wickedness appears to be triumphing, the truth is that the wicked are only storing up wrath for the Day of Judgment (Rom 2:5), as well as participating in a preliminary way in the moral truth of the universe that the “wages of sin is death” (Rom 6:23).

Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man or birds or animals or reptiles. Therefore, God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a base mind and to improper conduct. They were filled with all manner of wickedness, evil, covetousness, malice. Full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity, they are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Though they know God’s decree that those who do such things deserve to die, they not only do them but approve those who practice them. (Rom 1:22-32)

Thirdly, the witness of scripture, Church teaching, and reflection on our own human experience, show us that sometimes gravely wrong actions can be chosen “knowingly and willingly” (VS 70) in an instant, that then is covered by layers of rationalizations to obscure even to the person himself or herself the very knowledge he or she had, but rejected, and the sinful choice he or she made instead.

As the Catechism of the Catholic Church puts it:

Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It pre-supposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God’s law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin. (CCC 1859)

Fourthly, while there can be mitigating factors that diminish, or even remove, the culpability of gravely wrong actions—through possible limitations on full consent, rooted in theories of addictive behavior or choice impeded by “passion” (CCC 1860)—Augustine, in his masterful description of how the chains of sin are woven in a human person, shows how there can be culpable choice, even in apparent cases like these. In his profoundly insightful description of how the chains of sin are woven through repeated choices over time, Augustine points out that, even though a person may have become a “slave to sin,” and is currently no longer free to stop sinning—apart from the grace of God—the slavery may be the culmination of a series of free acts that led to slavery. And, therefore, the slavery, while real, has been self-chosen by repeated decisions to do gravely wrong things, and he/she is, therefore, culpable. (Confessions, Book VIII, nos. 10-11; see also Book X, nos. 33-34)

Fifthly, the encounter of the hearts of human beings with the Gospel (as revealed in Scripture) shows that it is often rejected, as well as accepted. Therefore, it is not reasonable to suppose, then, that virtually all the apparent “rejection” is rooted in inculpable ignorance, or insufficient reflection, or freedom of choice. Or as Vatican II puts it: the possibility of people being saved who haven’t had a chance to hear the Gospel—while it’s theoretically possible, under certain circumstances for that to be the case—“very often” the conditions aren’t met because of the ever-present influence of the world, the flesh, and the devil on the choices for evil that we often make (Lumen Gentium, 16). Or again, as Vatican II puts it, it is not enough just to be a baptized Catholic, or even a faithful church-goer, but it is necessary to be living faithfully to the grace of God in thought, word, and deed. Otherwise, not only will baptized Catholics not be saved, but they will be “more severely judged.” (Lumen Gentium, 14)

Pastoral Conclusions

While we cannot judge, as Scripture indicates, whether the subjective guilt or culpability of those doing gravely wrong actions will exclude them from the Kingdom, there is sufficient reason to suppose that many of those committing mortal sins may actually be culpable in their actions and, quite possibly, cause them to be led down the broad road to destruction. Rather than console ourselves into inaction and presumption by supposing them guiltless—nor should we presume them culpable—we must, with great urgency and love, seek every opportunity to help those in such situations to realize their grave danger, and call them to faith and repentance.

Further, no matter what the level of knowledge or consent, sin wounds the human person, and those who are committing serious sin—whatever the degree of culpability—dulling their minds, weakening their wills, defacing the image of God in whose image they are made, and degrading the dignity of their own persons, and others engaged in sin with them.

And, yes, pastoral sensitivity and compassion need to be shown. We need to understand that once a person is caught up in habits of sin, and the journey back can be long and hard. But that journey must be made; it is false compassion, of the worse kind, not to lovingly tell people the truth, inviting them to begin the journey back to the Father’s love.

We shouldn’t be surprised that some will accept, and others will reject, such truth. We shouldn’t be surprised that some, who initially reject, then later accept, or vice versa. Such was the case from the beginning. Our responsibility is to “preach the Gospel whether it’s convenient or inconvenient”—not just because we’ve been commanded by Jesus to do so, or because the “new evangelization” has become a major focus of the contemporary Church—but because the eternal destinies of multitudes are at stake.

One last comment on the immensity of God’s mercy. There has been a particularly strong and helpful emphasis on the immense mercy of God in the contemporary Church. This emphasis has been deepened in devotional power by the revelations given to St. Faustina about God’s mercy, her canonization, and the establishment, by John Paul II, of the Feast of Divine Mercy, which is celebrated on the first Sunday after Easter. Unfortunately, as with virtually every other good gift of God, Satan has tried to neutralize its impact by leading us to ignore important aspects of the revelations given to St. Faustina, and pushing us toward a presumption of mercy, rather than a repentance and conversion in the face of mercy.

The Lord made clear to St. Faustina that he wanted her to communicate the message of his mercy in the context of his Second Coming and Final Judgment. (See St. Faustina’s Diary, 965.) He also took the extraordinary step of having an angel take her on a tour of hell, which she vividly and horrifyingly describes in her Diary (741). As she puts it after she describes what she saw:

I am writing this at the command of God, so that no soul may find an excuse by saying there is no hell, or that nobody has ever been there, and so no one can say what it is like.

I, sister Faustina, by the order of God, have visited the abysses of hell so that I might tell souls about it, and testify to its existence. I cannot speak about it now; but I have received a command from God to leave it in writing. The devils were full of hatred for me, but they had to obey me at the command of God. What I have written is but a pale shadow of the things I saw. But I noticed one thing: that most of the souls there are those who disbelieved that there is a hell.

As priests, deacons and concerned lay people, we have been entrusted with the amazing privilege, and great responsibility, of telling people the truth about how we can be saved, announcing both God’s great mercy in giving us Jesus, and the absolute necessity to respond to that mercy through faith, repentance and obedience. Mercy is not automatically applied; there needs to be a real “yes” to mercy for it to be effective in our lives, for the forgiveness of sins, and eternal life.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Moral Issues; Prayer
KEYWORDS: 10commandments; commandments; deadlysin; deadlysins; lust; mortalsin; mortalsins; ralphmartin; tencommandments
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1 posted on 11/28/2013 5:54:01 AM PST by NYer
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To: Tax-chick; GregB; Berlin_Freeper; SumProVita; narses; bboop; SevenofNine; Ronaldus Magnus; tiki; ...

Ping!


2 posted on 11/28/2013 5:55:07 AM PST by NYer ("The wise man is the one who can save his soul. - St. Nimatullah Al-Hardini)
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To: NYer
They call them "Deadly Sins" for a reason!

Five Biblical Lists of Mortal Sins
On Sloth and the Noonday Devil
Anger, Hatred and Irrational Rage
The Deadliest of the Deadlies, Today
The Meanest of the Seven Deadly Sins?
Envy A Capital Sin [Ecumenical]
Understanding God's Anger: Compline, Anger, and God
Catholic Word of the Day: CAPITAL SINS, 10-26-10
Anger and the Anger of God (Quotes from Scripture)

Lists Every Catholic Should be Familiar With: The 7 Capital Sins and their Contrary Virtues
Prayer to be Freed of the Seven Deadly Sins
The Seven Deadly Sins Revisited: Greed
"Care for an Entrée With Your Entrée?" Gluttony, the Forgotten Sin
Seven Deadly Sins: Sloth or 'Acedia'
Seven deadly sins alive and well today, says Jesuit journal
The Virtue-Driven Life
The Virtues (counteracting the REAL Seven Deadly Sins)
What are Capital Sins? [Seven Deadly Sins]
Satan's Arsenal: "The Seven Deadly Sins"
The Anatomy of Envy

3 posted on 11/28/2013 6:03:05 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: NYer

According to the Bible not accepting Jesus Christ as Saviour is the only sin that will condemn a person to hell.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:8,9


4 posted on 11/28/2013 6:17:18 AM PST by 426cuda (This world in not my home I'm just a passin through.)
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To: 426cuda

Aren’t you forgetting the Sin against the Holy Spirit? That is the one and only unforgiveable sin.


5 posted on 11/28/2013 6:20:19 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: NYer

I was raised Lutheran, so I haven’t believed in purgatory. After reading the Bible, I’ve changed my beliefs that there most likely is a purgatory.


6 posted on 11/28/2013 6:21:48 AM PST by MNDude
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To: NYer

Re: 1 Cor 6:9-10

I’m very glad that verse 11 follows.


7 posted on 11/28/2013 6:25:34 AM PST by ExGeeEye (The enemy's gate is down...and to the left.)
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To: NYer

Got to also remember that with the growth and interest in “near death experiences” which shows a LOT of positive near after-life experiences such as the little kid who’s NDE experience became the basis for the famous book: “Heaven Is For Real”.


8 posted on 11/28/2013 6:30:05 AM PST by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: NYer; All

Offical website of the book “Heaven Is For Real” :

http://heavenisforreal.net/


9 posted on 11/28/2013 6:33:21 AM PST by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: NYer

The crux of the problem is insufficient catechesis. First and foremost, Jesus said to love the Lord, Thy God, with your whole heart, and with your whole mind, and with your whole being. The second is like the first - love your neighbor as your self.

Now, who loves the Lord God and continues to commit serious sins with no sense of repentance or remorse???? How can anyone say they have fulfilled the First great commandment and live lifestyles which are sinful? They commit sins with impunity with no thought about the sacrifice that Jesus made on the cross for us.

And, so, these folks are deceiving themselves by thinking God will ignore their sins, For they have deliberately taken the notion of conscience and remorse out of the equation, and substituted the reliance upon God’s mercy and love. God’s mercy in limitless, but Jesus told us that we must repent and change our lives.

We are called to holiness, not to some milk toast concept of “Jesus loves me” so I can do anything I want.


10 posted on 11/28/2013 6:37:35 AM PST by Gumdrop
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To: NYer

Exclusionary sin can best be described as “holistic”. What this means is that it incorporates three different Earthly judgments before a Heavenly judgment.

Of the three Earthly judgments is first, the spirit or soul of the individual, and how it looks upon the thoughts, feelings and actions of the individual. Second is the impact that the individual’s life has had on others’ lives, the direct consequences of the life. Third is the indirect impact that individual’s life will have on the lives of its descent and the future lives of others.

The judgments of these combine before the final, heavenly judgment, the rules of which are determined in heaven.


11 posted on 11/28/2013 6:42:40 AM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy (Last Obamacare Promise: "If You Like Your Eternal Soul, You Can Keep It.")
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To: NYer

Matthew 22:36-40 (NIV)

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

The New Testament Greek word translated as “Sin” is an archery term meaning “to miss the target”. Jesus tells us plainly that the “target” we are to aim for is ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’

When we fail to love God in this way, we “SIN”. How do we know when we miss this target? One way is when we do not “love our neighbor as ourselves”. These things done out of self-centeredness are the things and attitudes which we usually label as “sins”.

Discussions (arguments) over what is a sin and the relative weight of that sin occupy far too much of church time, energy and effort.

“SIN” is missing the target of loving God.

“sins” are where our thoughts, attitudes and actions hit when we miss the target. Some of the consequences of these misses (sins) are far more serious than others, i.e. murder, adultery, theft. Various groups award higher penalty points for different sins. Some groups see “hypocracy”, “intolerance” and “greed” as the big bad three, while ignoring or even promoting abortion, homosexuality and theft-by-government. Others see drinking, dancing and “hanging out with the wrong crowd” as the major problems.

Each of these subsets of sins are only symptoms of the main SIN; not loving God with everything within me. I am a sinner not because I commit various acts. I am a sinner because I do not love God.

The result of my SIN (not loving God) is that I do things (sins) that are not loving toward my neighbors. My problem is NOT that “I need to clean up my act.” My problem is that I do not love God.

If I concentrate on loving God, the result is that I begin to love my neighbor as myself.

We all have failed to love God. We all have done wrong or even evil to others. We are all sinners. The Bible says “there is none righteous, no, not one”. We all are in need of a Savior.

This is why God became a man, Jesus Christ, and died to pay the penalty for my SIN (and my sins) by dying on the cross. The resurrection proved that the penalty was paid, death & Hell defeated. In effect, I have won the eternal, celestial lottery. However, if I do not accept that wonderful gift by personally yielding command & control of my life to Jesus as both Savior (rescuer from the penalty of SIN) and Lord (Master, Boss,Commanding Officer) of my life then it as if I had the winning Powerball Lottery ticket for $500 million and I left it in my top drawer under the socks rather than redeem it.

BIG TIME LOOSER!

This salvation & forgiveness is why we are Giving Thanks and why we celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ, the ‘reason for the season’.


12 posted on 11/28/2013 6:42:53 AM PST by BwanaNdege (Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable. J.F. Kennedy)
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To: Salvation

Personally, I believe that was more of a dispensational sin which applied to the Pharisees ascribing the working of miracles by the Holy Spirit to the devil.


13 posted on 11/28/2013 6:46:01 AM PST by 426cuda (This world in not my home I'm just a passin through.)
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To: 426cuda

1 John 3:4: Sin IS the transgression of the Law.

Revelation 22:14-15 MKJV

(14) Blessed are they who do His commandments, that their authority will be over the Tree of Life, and they may enter in by the gates into the city.

(15) But outside are the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the fornicators, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and makes a lie.

I wonder how many Freepers are living with a member of the opposite sex without the benefit of marriage? Such people may consider themselves “socially conservative”, but are they violating God’s Law? Hey! This is easy to fix: if you are acting like you are married, then just get married. One less sin in your life.


14 posted on 11/28/2013 6:49:44 AM PST by theBuckwheat
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To: theBuckwheat
This is easy to fix: if you are acting like you are married, then just get married.

If you are acting like you are married - committed and faithful to one person for as long as you both live, will God care if you have that piece of paper or not?

15 posted on 11/28/2013 6:55:41 AM PST by tacticalogic
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To: Salvation
Aren’t you forgetting the Sin against the Holy Spirit? That is the one and only unforgiveable sin.

Out of curiosity, how exactly does one sin against the Holy Spirit? I've heard of the concept, but always in a context that assumed the listener knew what such a sin entailed.

16 posted on 11/28/2013 6:58:08 AM PST by Kip Russell (Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors -- and miss. ---Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: 426cuda
so you can rape and murder children for thirty or forty years and then say you accept God as your savior, goto heaven and be with all the children you raped and murdered???

i have a real problem with that...

17 posted on 11/28/2013 7:00:58 AM PST by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -vvv- NO Pity for the LAZY - 86-44)
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To: 426cuda
According to the Bible not accepting Jesus Christ as Saviour is the only sin that will condemn a person to hell.
What about all the people of the world who've never heard of Jesus? What about those who died BC?
18 posted on 11/28/2013 7:05:52 AM PST by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: oh8eleven
"What about all the people of the world who've never heard of Jesus? What about those who died BC?"

I can't say for sure, but I believe in a just God; so whatever the answer to your question is, it will in no way excuse people like you and me who have heard the Truth.

19 posted on 11/28/2013 7:11:36 AM PST by Flag_This (Liberalism: Kills countries dead.)
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To: Kip Russell

By denying the Holy Spirit. By denying Christ. By denying the holiness of Mary, the Mother of God. By denying the holiness of the saints. . By deny the Catholic Church. By denying the Apostles and St. Peter as the first Bishops and the first Pope.

And many other things

By denying Christ and EVERYTHING connected with him.


20 posted on 11/28/2013 7:13:52 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Kip Russell

http://ccc.scborromeo.org.master.com/texis/master/search/?sufs=0&q=sins+against+the+Holy+Spirit&xsubmit=Search&s=SS


21 posted on 11/28/2013 7:16:31 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: oh8eleven

God is not bound by our time.


22 posted on 11/28/2013 7:18:15 AM PST by al_c (Obama's standing in the world has fallen so much that Kenya now claims he was born in America.)
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To: Chode

Yes, that is the wonderful thing about grace. No matter what atrocious sins man my commit we all have the same sin nature. In God’s eyes there is no difference. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Romans 3:23


23 posted on 11/28/2013 7:24:00 AM PST by 426cuda (This world in not my home I'm just a passin through.)
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To: Flag_This

Jesus is in the Old Testament too, as in Isaiah. In that time people, Jews too, had to believe in the promise of the Messiah.


24 posted on 11/28/2013 7:27:47 AM PST by Theodore R. (The grand pooh-bahs are flirting with Christie, but it's Jebbie's turn!" to LOSE!)
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To: Salvation
By denying the Holy Spirit. By denying Christ. By denying the holiness of Mary, the Mother of God. By denying the holiness of the saints. . By deny the Catholic Church. By denying the Apostles and St. Peter as the first Bishops and the first Pope.

Huh. I guess I'm guilty of, well...all of the the above.

Oh, well.

Just as an aside, as I read your list, that would mean that anyone who affiliates themselves with a Protestant denomination rather than a Catholic one has committed an unforgivable sin, and will accordingly roast in Hell. Is that correct, or am I misreading it?

25 posted on 11/28/2013 7:30:34 AM PST by Kip Russell (Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors -- and miss. ---Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: 426cuda
so why not simply be a real sh!t your whole life if you know you have a get out of hell free card at the end of the day?

and the children, are they simply collateral damage?

they get the same reward as their tormenter/murderer?

i guess Christ was just kidding then when he said

But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

26 posted on 11/28/2013 7:41:26 AM PST by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -vvv- NO Pity for the LAZY - 86-44)
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To: NYer

Look it simple..the default postion for heaven is not “your in” the default postion is “your out”...to get in you first need to be sponsored by this guy on the membership committed name Jesus..


27 posted on 11/28/2013 7:58:39 AM PST by tophat9000 (Are we headed to a Cracker Slacker War?)
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To: Chode

Suppose I hang a target on the wall and ask every person in the room to take a dart and do his best to the hit the bull’s eye. When all the darts are thrown, I say, “There is no difference.”

“Oh,” says someone, “what do you mean no difference? I only missed the bull’s eye by a quarter of an inch.”

I say, “There is no difference, because all came short of the bull’s eye.” In God’s sight there is no difference between sinners. We may not commit the same sins, but everybody has sinned, and all men are sinners.


28 posted on 11/28/2013 8:00:49 AM PST by 426cuda (This world in not my home I'm just a passin through.)
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To: Chode

+1.


29 posted on 11/28/2013 8:03:07 AM PST by mad_as_he$$
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To: 426cuda
if you say so... happy thankxgiving
30 posted on 11/28/2013 8:03:25 AM PST by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -vvv- NO Pity for the LAZY - 86-44)
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To: NYer

Title is off putting. More correctly: “I haven’t murdered anyone.” I killed for this country. Am I going to hell for that?


31 posted on 11/28/2013 8:04:33 AM PST by mad_as_he$$
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To: Flag_This
I believe in a just God

32 posted on 11/28/2013 8:19:05 AM PST by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: Kip Russell

“Just as an aside, as I read your list, that would mean that anyone who affiliates themselves with a Protestant denomination rather than a Catholic one has committed an unforgivable sin, and will accordingly roast in Hell. Is that correct, or am I misreading it”.

No, just the ones who rant and rave and call the Catholic Church the whore of Babylon. FR is full of them.

Most devout Christians, whether they be Catholic or Protestant do not constantly put down another’s Christian.

I pray for protestants to one day come to the realization that the Catholic Church is the fullness of the Christian faith, established by Christ himself. When they finally realize this they become Catholic. I wish everyone a very happy Thanksgiving.


33 posted on 11/28/2013 8:32:22 AM PST by NKP_Vet
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To: NKP_Vet
No, just the ones who rant and rave and call the Catholic Church the whore of Babylon. FR is full of them.

My reaction to that (not being a Christian) is a puzzled, "Um...aren't you guys supposed to be on the same side?"

Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours as well.

34 posted on 11/28/2013 8:35:46 AM PST by Kip Russell (Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors -- and miss. ---Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: oh8eleven
Fallen world, free will, yada yada.

Part of the reason (perhaps largely, in fact) that I have no belief in a God is that (as far as I can tell) it's not falsifiable. As I look at the universe, I try to imagine what it would look like if there were no supernatural agencies of any kind...and I can't see the slightest difference between that and the actual world around me.

Now, that certainly doesn't prove that the supernatural (ghosts, angels, demons, God, whatever) doesn't exist...absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence...but lacking such evidence, why assume that it does?

35 posted on 11/28/2013 8:45:56 AM PST by Kip Russell (Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors -- and miss. ---Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: NYer
What I have written is but a pale shadow of the things I saw. But I noticed one thing: that most of the souls there are those who disbelieved that there is a hell.

Thank you(!) for showing me another book I need to read: Diary: Divine Mercy in My Soul.

To me, one of the serpent's most deviously spectacular accomplishments is convincing human souls that he's not real, and therefore purgatory and the many levels of hell aren't real either.

Otoh, I've also come to know how rough things can be when God lovingly, mercifully teaches and corrects me with the consequences of the errors of my ways, now, during this period of His grace and mercy. I am grateful for those lessons over and over again. I just wish I was an easier, more attentive student.

If fear of God is the path to wisdom, then I've got the right map.

I fear His Wrath and the Judgment of everlasting fire as the consequences of my ego driven, freely willed choices to follow the siren calls of the deceiver.

36 posted on 11/28/2013 8:46:02 AM PST by GBA (Ezekiel ch. 7, verses 1-14...our consequences?)
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To: BwanaNdege

Discussions (arguments) over what is a sin and the relative weight of that sin occupy far too much of church time, energy and effort.


Good comment.


37 posted on 11/28/2013 8:55:56 AM PST by ravenwolf
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To: Kip Russell

Check out Pascal’s wager.


38 posted on 11/28/2013 9:00:32 AM PST by ex-snook (God is Love)
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To: Kip Russell
I try to imagine what it would look like if there were no supernatural agencies of any kind...and I can't see the slightest difference between that and the actual world around me.
So, the universe created itself (i.e. something) from nothing? And humans are just an accident of chemistry & biology?
And with untold trillions x 1099999 ... of planets, where are all the other (accidental) life forms?
39 posted on 11/28/2013 9:04:54 AM PST by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: ex-snook
Check out Pascal’s wager.

Been there, done that.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_wager http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager#Criticism

40 posted on 11/28/2013 9:07:13 AM PST by Kip Russell (Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors -- and miss. ---Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: Salvation
>>Aren’t you forgetting the Sin against the Holy Spirit? That is the one and only unforgiveable sin.<<

What would one have to do to “sin against the Holy Spirit”?

41 posted on 11/28/2013 9:12:42 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: oh8eleven
So, the universe created itself (i.e. something) from nothing?

I don't know where the universe "came" from. Physics is poorly understood prior to the Planck epoch; perhaps in the future we'll achieve a greater understanding. Perhaps not.

And humans are just an accident of chemistry & biology?

As far as I can tell...yes.

And with untold trillions x 1099999 ... of planets, where are all the other (accidental) life forms?

We don't have the technology to detect life on extrasolar planets, although the next generation of space telescopes may indirectly show evidence of life by detecting significant amounts of free oxygen in the atmospheres of such planets.

42 posted on 11/28/2013 9:13:33 AM PST by Kip Russell (Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors -- and miss. ---Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: Kip Russell

on liberal wiki

Go to the source — not wiki


43 posted on 11/28/2013 9:14:22 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Chode

Happy Thanksgiving to you as well. Eat hardy and keep your powder dry.


44 posted on 11/28/2013 9:15:33 AM PST by 426cuda (This world in not my home I'm just a passin through.)
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To: Salvation
Go to the source — not wiki

Shrug. Ok. Here's a rather comprehensive look at the Wager, with an extensive bibliography:

http://www.iep.utm.edu/pasc-wag/#H4

45 posted on 11/28/2013 9:21:37 AM PST by Kip Russell (Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors -- and miss. ---Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: Kip Russell
Physics is poorly understood ... We don't have the technology to detect life on extrasolar planets
Physics is poorly understood now? No, you're just beating around the bush now.
And we're the smartest people in the universe? No others can detect/communicate with us?
Enjoy your Thanksgiving dinner ...
46 posted on 11/28/2013 9:26:07 AM PST by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: MNDude
>>After reading the Bible, I’ve changed my beliefs that there most likely is a purgatory.<<

Where in scripture did you find that? I have been studying scripture for near 40 years and have not found anything remotely saying there is a purgatory.

47 posted on 11/28/2013 9:31:29 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: CynicalBear

Many dear souls have tormented themselves, or have been tormented by the devil, with the awful thought that they are guilty of that particular sin; whereas deep in their hearts they fully recognize the Deity of the Lord Jesus and have no thought of attributing to the devil the power wrought in Him.


48 posted on 11/28/2013 9:35:18 AM PST by 426cuda (This world in not my home I'm just a passin through.)
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To: Kip Russell
...but lacking such evidence, why assume that it does?

So that I understand you more clearly, do you believe in the concept or existence of the human soul?

It's easy to verify by experience the physical, emotional and mental levels of your human reality, but are there other levels that you're not fully aware of or remember, such as spiritual levels of your existence or the intuitive bridge to them?

What of the anecdotal evidence from the mountains of personal testimony of those who have experienced these levels themselves?

Here in the matrix, life is but a dream, but what is the dreamer and what created and programmed the matrix?

49 posted on 11/28/2013 9:38:05 AM PST by GBA (Ezekiel ch. 7, verses 1-14...our consequences?)
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To: Salvation
Aren’t you forgetting the Sin against the Holy Spirit? That is the one and only unforgiveable sin.

Yup, according to the bible, that's it, the only unforgivable sin.
50 posted on 11/28/2013 9:44:54 AM PST by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency)
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