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Let Us Honour God's Holy Spirit
Derek Prince Ministries ^ | Derek Prince

Posted on 11/30/2013 1:28:20 PM PST by metmom

This is a first in a series of three messages. In this, No. 1, I’ll seek to analyze a problem that has arisen in many sections of the church and in many parts of the world. In the next message I’ll seek to analyze how the problem arose. And in the third message I’ll consider ways to guard against that problem arising again. The title of this first message is Let Us Honor God’s Holy Spirit.

There has been in recent years a worldwide explosion of signs and wonders. Some have been biblical and helpful. Others have been bizarre and unbiblical. Signs and wonders are not new. They are recorded in various passage of the Bible, and in different periods of church history. However, the current explosion extends more widely than any other particular church or denomination, and has attracted worldwide attention in both the religious and the secular media. I want to make it plain that I have no personal prejudice or anxiety concerning unusual manifestations. In actual fact, I have in my own lifetime experienced quite a number of them. They do not frighten me. I’m not negative about them.

As I recorded in my booklet Uproar In The Church, my own personal encounter with Jesus in World War II began in a very unconventional way. In the middle of the night in the barrack room of the British Army, I spent more than an hour on my back on the floor with my body first racked by convulsive sobs, and then filled with a river of laughter which grew continually louder. Next morning I found myself a completely different person. Changed, not by any act of my will, but by yielding to the supernatural power that had flowed through me.

(Excerpt) Read more at dpmuk.org ...


TOPICS: Charismatic Christian; Current Events; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS:
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This is a long transcript of a message he gave many years ago discussing the excesses he'd been seeing in the charismatic movement, of which he was a part as a Charismatic pastor.
1 posted on 11/30/2013 1:28:20 PM PST by metmom
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To: Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; count-your-change; CynicalBear; daniel1212; ...

ping


2 posted on 11/30/2013 1:29:30 PM PST by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: metmom

IBTM


3 posted on 11/30/2013 1:47:24 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: metmom
Now there is a subject only the meat eaters will tackle. I remember well the first time I attended a charismatic church with signs and gifts. It took all I could do to remain seated and not bolt for the door. I thank God I didn’t bolt.

I learned what it meant to “search the scriptures daily to see if these things be true”. I was blessed greatly in that church and experienced blessings from God that the church I had grown up in never experienced or enjoyed.

Sadly it didn’t take long before the carnal nature took over in that church and corrupted what had been a glorious worshiping of God. As the author pointed out many of those who showed evidence of the gifts began to “use God” as he put it. The humble nature turned to self glorification for all to many and a great many of us left.

Satan can work both sides. He can get people to deny the power of God but he can also take those who see the other side to “go to far” and will move them to corrupt those gifts or use them wrongly.

4 posted on 11/30/2013 3:41:17 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: CynicalBear

There’s got to be a happy medium between the excesses of where the charismatic movement is heading, and the severe, harsh demeanor of some groups who deny it all and you’d never think to raise your hands in their church.

One thing I liked about this guy is that he set up guidelines to follow instead of laying down strict rules.

The point that he was pretty unyielding on was the part about people acting like animals. I’ve heard charismatics excuse that and explain it away as the Holy Spirit, and I CANNOT accept that.


5 posted on 11/30/2013 3:59:25 PM PST by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: metmom; CynicalBear; Iscool
I would love to discuss this subject. But only if the reason for God giving the gift of tongues is stated right from the beginning.

"Thus saith the Lord of hosts; it shall yet come to pass, that there shall come people, and the inhabitants of many cities: And the inhabitants of one city shall go to another, saying, Let us go speedily to pray before the Lord, and to SEEK THE LORD OF HOSTS: I will go also. Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to SEEK THE LORD OF HOSTS IN JERUSALEM, and to pray before the Lord. Thus saith the Lord of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is WITH YOU." (Zech. 8:20-23).

Who was God speaking to? Israel. Jerusalem will be the religious center of the earth. Tongues was given for a specific reason. And is a reversal of God in Genesis 11:7-9. Where He confused the languages, now through Israel, He reverses and makes the confused languages understood by His people, His priests for the nations.

Now see Acts 2:5-11. What Zechariah prophesied is exactly what was happening on the day of Pentecost. And what would have continued to happen if Israel had accepted Christ as Messiah, He had returned and set up His kingdom, and they would have gone into it, as a nation of priests and a blessing to all the nations.

Once Israel was set aside, the kingdom was put in abeyance, and the dispensation of the grace of God began, what would it have profited anyone, Jew or Gentile to have those same Pentecost powers, that were prophesied FOR ISRAEL? We, the Body of Christ, aren't promised any earthly inheritance. We are promised a heavenly inheritance. And we walk by faith now, not by sight. Pentecost was an offer to Israel to accept Christ as Messiah, and a foretaste of what the millennial kingdom will be like. And Zechariah was prophesying what that millennial kingdom is going to be like.

" But now" I shall stand back and wait for the flying pies in my direction...:)

6 posted on 11/30/2013 4:04:11 PM PST by smvoice (HELP! I'm trapped inside this body and I can't get out!)
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To: metmom
>> The point that he was pretty unyielding on was the part about people acting like animals.<<

I’d be interested to hear what scripture they use to justify it for sure.

7 posted on 11/30/2013 4:20:33 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: smvoice

Well, the subject is beyond just the use of tongues.

There have been a lot of weird things that have come out of Pentecostalism recently. Things like the Toronto Blessing, where people were acting like animals, purported healings which were never verified, etc.

It’s gotten worse since then with the stuff like *drunken glory*, *fire tunnels*, *angel orbs*, people looking for other people to be literally, physically glowing, gold dust int heir hair, etc.

I know people who are getting taken up in all this nonsense and it seemed good to address the movement as a whole.

This guy offered some good guidelines to discern what is and what is not of the Holy Spirit, and he was a charismatic preacher. He was old when he did this series of messages back int he 1889’s I believe, and has since passed on. However, it is still relevant and discernment is needed more than ever today.


8 posted on 11/30/2013 4:32:26 PM PST by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: smvoice

FWIW, I agree with you on tongues.

Paul addresses that in 1 Corinthians 14:22 where he tells us that tongues are a sign for unbelievers, not believers.


9 posted on 11/30/2013 4:34:05 PM PST by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: CynicalBear

What I’ve found it that they don’t have any Scirpture to justify it.

What they use is intimidation tactics, stating the God can work how He sees fit, and then warning you to not attribute to Satan the works of the Holy Spirit. That you are in danger of blaspheming the Holy Spirit if you question the source or come right out and say that people acting like animals is demonic.

After all, God told the people (in their spirit) witnessing this that this is of Him. Therefore, how can you question it? They have the witness of God in their spirit that it is so.


10 posted on 11/30/2013 4:37:23 PM PST by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: smvoice; metmom; Iscool
1 Corinthians 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

1 Corinthians 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

1 Corinthians 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

1 Corinthians 14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. 2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

1 Corinthians 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. 28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

Why would Paul explain how to use the gifts if they were no longer relevant? And if we speak to God in tongues when would that have changed.?

11 posted on 11/30/2013 4:44:09 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: smvoice; metmom; Iscool
Now let’s look at when Paul said tongues would cease.

1 Corinthians 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

When does that “which is perfect” come?

1 Corinthians 12:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Not until we are face to face with Christ will those gifts cease.

12 posted on 11/30/2013 4:50:52 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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Comment #13 Removed by Moderator

To: metmom

I suppose they missed the scripture that tells us to “search the scriptures” to see if these things be true.


14 posted on 11/30/2013 4:54:32 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: smvoice; metmom; Iscool
>> " But now" I shall stand back and wait for the flying pies in my direction...:)<<

LOL Hey! Showing scripture says they won’t stop will we are “face to face” with Jesus ain’t flying pies I can tell ya!

15 posted on 11/30/2013 4:57:44 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: metmom; smvoice
>>FWIW, I agree with you on tongues.<<

I bet ya change yer mind!!! I searched the scriptures! :-)

16 posted on 11/30/2013 4:59:24 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: CynicalBear

AMEN!!!


17 posted on 11/30/2013 5:00:58 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Sir Francis Dashwood; smvoice

You would have to explain to me how having perhaps missed a teaching from scripture on a particular subject corresponds to “Judaism”.


18 posted on 11/30/2013 5:06:32 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: metmom
He was old when he did this series of messages back int he 1889’s I believe,

1889 or 1989?

19 posted on 11/30/2013 5:06:33 PM PST by FourtySeven (47)
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Comment #20 Removed by Moderator

To: CynicalBear

Matthew 10:33

“But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.”


21 posted on 11/30/2013 5:08:19 PM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood ("Arjuna, why have you have dropped your bow???")
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To: FourtySeven

In that case, it was a pretty good quality audio recording.

Fumble fingers strikes again......

1990’s.


22 posted on 11/30/2013 5:09:32 PM PST by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: Sir Francis Dashwood

Are you sure you’re on the right thread for this post?

I do not accept the conclusion that “judaism = anti-christ”.

If you would like to address that topic, perhaps you could start your own thread on it.


23 posted on 11/30/2013 5:10:31 PM PST by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: CynicalBear

Part IV. Of the Kingdom of Darkness
Chap. xlvii. Of the Benefit that proceedeth from such Darkness

Besides these sovereign powers, divine and human, of which I have hitherto discoursed, there is mention in Scripture of another power, namely, that of “the rulers of the darkness of this world,” [Ephesians, 6. 12] “the kingdom of Satan,” [Matthew, 12. 26] and “the principality of Beelzebub over demons,” [Ibid., 9. 34] that is to say, over phantasms that appear in the air: for which cause Satan is also called “the prince of the power of the air”;[Ephesians, 2. 2] and, because he ruleth in the darkness of this world, “the prince of this world”:[John, 16. 11] and in consequence hereunto, they who are under his dominion, in opposition to the faithful, who are the “children of the light,” are called the “children of darkness.” For seeing Beelzebub is prince of phantasms, inhabitants of his dominion of air and darkness, the children of darkness, and these demons, phantasms, or spirits of illusion, signify allegorically the same thing. This considered, the kingdom of darkness, as it is set forth in these and other places of the Scripture, is nothing else but a confederacy of deceivers that, to obtain dominion over men in this present world, endeavour, by dark and erroneous doctrines, to extinguish in them the light, both of nature and of the gospel; and so to disprepare them for the kingdom of God to come.

Hobbes, Thomas. Leviathan: with selected variants from the Latin edition of 1668. Ed. Edwin Curley. Indianapolis: Hackett, 1994.


24 posted on 11/30/2013 5:10:57 PM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood ("Arjuna, why have you have dropped your bow???")
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To: metmom

Haha ok thanks...I wasn’t trying to bust her chops I really was curious because if this was from the 19th century it would be particularly interesting (to me).

Thanks again,


25 posted on 11/30/2013 5:11:48 PM PST by FourtySeven (47)
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To: Sir Francis Dashwood; CynicalBear
Matthew 10:33 “But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.”

That applies to ALL non-believers, of which last I recall, you were one. An atheist, IIRC.

Has that changed?

26 posted on 11/30/2013 5:11:58 PM PST by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: metmom

” Beelzebub is prince of phantasms, inhabitants of his dominion of air and darkness, the children of darkness, and these demons, phantasms, or spirits of illusion, signify allegorically the same thing. This considered, the kingdom of darkness, as it is set forth in these and other places of the Scripture, is nothing else but a confederacy of deceivers that, to obtain dominion over men in this present world, endeavour, by dark and erroneous doctrines, to extinguish in them the light, both of nature and of the gospel; and so to disprepare them for the kingdom of God to come.”

ibid.


27 posted on 11/30/2013 5:12:01 PM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood ("Arjuna, why have you have dropped your bow???")
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To: Sir Francis Dashwood

Well then, explain to me how missing a teaching from scripture on a particular subject is denying God?


28 posted on 11/30/2013 5:12:33 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: FourtySeven

Well, the guy WAS pretty old when he did this series of messages.

That’s one of the things that intrigued me. He was an old school Pentecostal pastor.


29 posted on 11/30/2013 5:13:31 PM PST by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: Sir Francis Dashwood

What are you doing on this thread and what relevance do your posts have to the topic?


30 posted on 11/30/2013 5:14:17 PM PST by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: metmom

That intrigues me too.


31 posted on 11/30/2013 5:15:01 PM PST by FourtySeven (47)
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To: smvoice
Tongues was given for a specific reason.

There seems to be TWO types of tongues.

One; a language man CAN translate into a language that is spoken somewhere on earth.

Two; a language that only GOD can understand.


1. Acts 2:5-11
Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken. Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans? Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language? Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!”

2. 1 Corinthians 14:2
For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.

32 posted on 11/30/2013 5:15:12 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Sir Francis Dashwood

Um…………………………Ok…………………um………..If anyone else gets what you are trying to say I hope they chime in.


33 posted on 11/30/2013 5:17:17 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: Elsie

Interesting.

I always presumed that the verse about speaking to God meant that if there was no one around to interpret, like if I spoke the Dani language around someone who didn’t know it, then only god would or could understand it. But that it was still a human language.


34 posted on 11/30/2013 5:18:46 PM PST by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: Sir Francis Dashwood; metmom

I got it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You are proving the existence of speaking in tongues!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I sure hope that interpreter comes along shortly.


35 posted on 11/30/2013 5:19:10 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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Comment #36 Removed by Moderator

To: CynicalBear
1 Corinthians 14:19 Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue.
37 posted on 11/30/2013 5:31:18 PM PST by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: metmom; Elsie
>> I always presumed that the verse about speaking to God meant that if there was no one around to interpret, like if I spoke the Dani language around someone who didn’t know it, then only god would or could understand it. But that it was still a human language.<<

I always thought that also but I don’t think that’s the case. Look here.

1 Corinthians 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

That indicates to me that it is not just the “tongues of men”.

38 posted on 11/30/2013 5:37:13 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: metmom

I think we just had someone who wanted to disrupt the thread.


39 posted on 11/30/2013 5:39:45 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: CynicalBear; Elsie

Everyone that I hear speak in tongues speaks something that does not sound like what others speak. And they claim it’s their own private prayer tongue, for themselves only.

How many tongues of angels are there anyway?


40 posted on 11/30/2013 5:58:09 PM PST by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: metmom

Yeah, I’ve heard those deals too. I don’t think what they do in public is “tongues of angels”. If it is in public it had better be something somebody can interpret.


41 posted on 11/30/2013 6:00:43 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: metmom; smvoice; Iscool; daniel1212

One of the gifts I see most often publicly abused is the gift of healing. Benny Hinn comes to mind.


42 posted on 11/30/2013 6:05:09 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: CynicalBear

There are far more documented frauds that I’ve seen than actual recorded, verifiable healings.

Of course, the old, and I consider legitimate, question is why, if all these people really do have the gift of healing, do they not go to rehab facilities and ICU’s and heal people.

You know, freely you have received, freely give?

Joni has a lot to say about faith healing and the role of suffering in the life of the believer.

Joni on A Deeper Healing at John Mac Arthur’s Strange Fire Conference.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NI22o5u32z0

Which has led me on this investigation of abuses in the charismatic movement.


43 posted on 11/30/2013 6:21:41 PM PST by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: metmom

Joni spoke at a conference I was at once. I’ve read a lot of her stuff.


44 posted on 11/30/2013 6:26:25 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: metmom
Everyone that I hear speak in tongues speaks something that does not sound like what others speak. And they claim it’s their own private prayer tongue, for themselves only.

Yep... There's not a verse in there that suggests that the speaker will not be able to understand what he himself is speaking...

45 posted on 11/30/2013 6:58:45 PM PST by Iscool
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To: CynicalBear
Yeah, I’ve heard those deals too. I don’t think what they do in public is “tongues of angels”. If it is in public it had better be something somebody can interpret.

I just can't imagine Paul going around asking people, 'hey, can someone tell me what I just said'???

46 posted on 11/30/2013 7:00:39 PM PST by Iscool
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To: Iscool

LOL I don’t think so either.


47 posted on 11/30/2013 7:05:44 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: smvoice

LOL. No flying pies other than bringing a hot button topic from another thread to this one. I was told that was forbidden fruit so won’t take a bite.


48 posted on 11/30/2013 11:54:17 PM PST by redleghunter
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To: metmom

Prince did a very good job discussing the fruit and tree relationship. You just don’t hear many sermons on holiness these days. I heard an Army chaplain once say “they are the 10 commandments not the 10 guidelines.”


49 posted on 12/01/2013 12:05:16 AM PST by redleghunter
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To: CynicalBear; metmom

The only language I can think of that sir Francis is speaking is “trollish.”:)


50 posted on 12/01/2013 12:19:42 AM PST by redleghunter
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