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Pope Francis is the Catholic Church’s Obama – God help us
Fox News ^ | December 4, 2013 | Adam Shaw

Posted on 12/05/2013 8:59:37 AM PST by 2ndDivisionVet

Pope Francis is undergoing a popularity surge comparable to the way Barack Obama was greeted by the world in 2008. And just as President Obama has been a disappointment for America, Pope Francis will prove a disaster for the Catholic Church.

My fellow Catholics should be suspicious when bastions of anti-Catholicism in the left-wing media are in love with him.

Much is being made of his ‘compassion’ and ‘humility,’ but kissing babies and hugging the sick is nothing new. Every pope in recent memory has done the same, yet only now are the media paying attention. Benedict XVI and John Paul II refused to kowtow to the liberal agenda, and so such displays of tenderness were under-covered.

But Francis is beating a retreat for the Catholic Church, and making sure its controversial doctrines are whispered, not yelled – no wonder the New York Times is in love....

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: catholics; obama; popefrancis
Please remember, my name isn't Adam Shaw.
1 posted on 12/05/2013 8:59:37 AM PST by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Ping for later reading...of the PINGS!! LOL!


2 posted on 12/05/2013 9:04:15 AM PST by ExTxMarine (PRAYER: It's the only HOPE for real CHANGE in America!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I really want(ed) to go back to the church of my youth.

I kept imagining that it would cease its swing to the left and get back to religion. ‘Twould seem that boy boinking priests and commie ideology would someday be perceived to be not very good Christian policy.

However, evidently, I’m wrong.

Oh well, thankfully there are other churches.


3 posted on 12/05/2013 9:04:43 AM PST by Da Coyote
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Please remember, my name isn't Adam Shaw.

I take it this is the article complained about in this thread?
Fox News opinion piece BLASTS Pope Francis as “the Catholic Church’s Obama”

4 posted on 12/05/2013 9:06:33 AM PST by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: Da Coyote; Rich21IE; NYer

Find a church with a Tidentine or Maronite Mass. You will not be disappointed.


5 posted on 12/05/2013 9:10:27 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Why is it when we finally get the straight scoop from Pope Francis rather than thru media filters we get a whole different picture?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3098520/posts


6 posted on 12/05/2013 9:10:58 AM PST by Slyfox (Satan's goal is to rub out the image of God he sees in the face of every human.)
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To: Slyfox

How does that link about Lenin, useful idiots and communism have any relation to this thread about the pope, or am I missing something?


7 posted on 12/05/2013 9:14:37 AM PST by 2ndDivisionVet ("Of the 4 wars in my lifetime none came about because the US was too strong." Reagan)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Oh, yeah. The Pope....


8 posted on 12/05/2013 9:19:05 AM PST by onedoug
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

What Fox News (and all the others) don’t get is that Pope Francis, when he speaks (or writes) ... he is speaking universally ... not just about the USA. They don’t get that.

It would do anyone interested in this topic good to actually read what the pope wrote - in context. Word for word ... beginning to end. Draw your own conclusions, not what some talking head on TV says.

I haven’t read this document front to back yet, but I do plan to. That’s the only way to completely understand what the pope is saying.


9 posted on 12/05/2013 9:19:42 AM PST by al_c (Obama's standing in the world has fallen so much that Kenya now claims he was born in America.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Adam Shaw is a relative of mine. I already checked with him.

And, about the article, I was scared as heck when I heard his pronouncements. Although frequently the target of ridicule by the left (at least in recent history), the Catholic Pope has much earthly power and will use it.


10 posted on 12/05/2013 9:20:08 AM PST by LurkedLongEnough
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To: al_c

i see what you are saying, but WHY? why is this necessary now, with this Pope? why does he obfuscate his message so that there are myriad interpretations? What is to be gained from it? There was no such confusion with prior popes at least in MY memory. he has done nothing but give cover to the religious left and confound and unsettle those of us Catholics on the right. i read again and again that he has been mistranslated, that it’s taken out of context etc. why is it a recurring problem with him, but has not been with any other? i am a faithful Catholic, and i am reserving judgement on Pope Francis, but i am more than a little unsettled.


11 posted on 12/05/2013 9:24:05 AM PST by xsmommy
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To: 2ndDivisionVet; All

I wonder if Obama guard dog media is using Pope Francis to divert attention from Obamacare and other Obama follies?


12 posted on 12/05/2013 9:25:14 AM PST by Amendment10
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Not such kind words for the free market, however. In his recent apostolic exhortation he slammed unfettered capitalism, calling it ‘a new tyranny.’

Apart from the fact that there is no major nation practicing unfettered capitalism (like Obama, Francis loves attacking straw men) there is more real tyranny in socialist cesspools like Francis’ home of Argentina than in places where capitalism is predominant.

In the document he rejects the free market and calls for governments to overhaul financial systems so they attack inequality. In doing so he shows himself painfully misguided on economics, failing to see that free markets have consistently lifted the poor out of poverty, while socialism merely entrenches them in it, or kills them outright.

If the above it true i will have to agree, Jesus taught freedom, in the form of capitalism, this is explained very well in Mat 20

15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?

Just a few words but refutes every thing the socialists say against capitalism.

If not for freedom in the form of capitalism no one would have anything of their own.


13 posted on 12/05/2013 9:31:15 AM PST by ravenwolf
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To: al_c

I agree. When the Pope says we need to have compassion for the poor, liberals hear “We should take care of welfare queens and baby boomers who haven’t been able to leverage their two Phd’s into a good occupation”.

They don’t understand that the Pope’s definition of poor is impoverished, hungry, under the thumb of a narco-corrupt government, and without hope or opportunity.

They are projecting their own twisted beliefs on him.


14 posted on 12/05/2013 9:35:04 AM PST by lacrew (Mr. Soetoro, we regret to inform you that your race card is over the credit limit.)
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To: al_c

I have zero interest in what a Pope says, I only care about what the word of God says.


15 posted on 12/05/2013 9:39:06 AM PST by Bulwyf
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Christ is the head of His Church. Christ alone. Not any man - pope, bishop, priest, pastor, whatever.

If you pray to anyone or anything except God, you are imputing god-status to them. You are stating that they have the power of God to know all things. Prayer is worship. Don't worship people.

"And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve." - Luke 4:8

16 posted on 12/05/2013 9:44:50 AM PST by Dr. Thorne ("How long, O Lord, holy and true?" - Rev. 6:10)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Oh sure you tell us that now. The headline tells me all I need to know and that is that Adam Shaw is talking out the end of his digestive tract. That tells me that you are indeed NOT Adam Shaw.


17 posted on 12/05/2013 9:46:18 AM PST by lastchance ("Nisi credideritis, non intelligetis" St. Augustine)
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To: Salvation

Amen to that! :)


18 posted on 12/05/2013 9:59:15 AM PST by MotorCityBuck ( Keep the change, you filthy animal! ,)
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To: lacrew; al_c; xsmommy

Some of us have already read the document.

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/francesco/apost_exhortations/documents/papa-francesco_esortazione-ap_20131124_evangelii-gaudium_en.html

The very existence of the subtitle, “The economy and the distribution of income” is disturbing. The contents confirm what one would expect to find under such drivel.


19 posted on 12/05/2013 10:03:52 AM PST by cizinec ("Brother, your best friend ain't your Momma, it's the Field Artillery.")
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To: cizinec

thanks for the link.


20 posted on 12/05/2013 10:09:33 AM PST by xsmommy
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To: al_c
What Fox News (and all the others) don’t get is that Pope Francis, when he speaks (or writes) ... he is speaking universally ... not just about the USA. They don’t get that.

I have seen a couple of people say this around here and I still don't get what it means. I can accept that we may be misreading him, though I am equally inclined to think he is likely misspeaking, but how does universality change anything? If a man says that free markets and economic growth are not going to bring about greater justice and inclusiveness, how is that meliorated by saying it isn't about the US but everybody? I can't possibly understand a difference in that. Either a person recognizes that economic prosperity gives people opportunities, jobs and the dignity they provide, food on their table, and shelter over their heads, or they don't. Whether I dislike capitalism in this country or everywhere hardly changes what my opinion represents and means in regard to prosperity and freedom. A universal authoritarian is also a local authoritarian.

21 posted on 12/05/2013 10:09:42 AM PST by cothrige
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
I would suggest that Adam Shaw read up on subsidiarity. It starts at the lowest form of help -- church community and then trickles up.

Repeat After Me: Subsidiarity & Solidarity
Subsidiarity and Human Dignity
Does the USCCB Understand Subsidiarity?
[CATHOLIC CAUCUS] The Principle of Subsidiarity
[CATHOLIC/ORTHODOX CAUCUS] Subsidiarity Over Social Justice
What is the USCCB’s problem with subsidiarity?
Subsidiarity: Where Justice and Freedom Coexist
Health reform still full of thorny problems for Catholics (Vasa comes out for subsidiarity)
What You [Catholics] Need to Know: Subsidiarity, [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]
Catholic Word of the Day: SUBSIDIARITY, 06-11-09

22 posted on 12/05/2013 10:12:58 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: cothrige; al_c
Regarding post #21...

I have the same questions. You stated your points so well, cothrige, there's no need for me to repeat ;-)

23 posted on 12/05/2013 10:13:43 AM PST by Jane Long (While Marxists continue the fundamental transformation of the USA, progressive RINOs assist!)
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To: cothrige

bttt


24 posted on 12/05/2013 10:18:05 AM PST by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life :o)
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To: Slyfox

Why is it when we finally get the straight scoop from Pope Francis rather than thru media filters we get a whole different picture?


I believe the Pope is against communism but if he is talking about unfettered Capitalism that would be just the same as Obama talking about the same thing.

Any one who believes Capitalism is unfettered should try going into business for themselves.

It is said that approximately 50 percent of businesses fail in the first year. the numbers go way up after that.

I have been there and the biggest reason is Government regulations, the main purpose of the regulation is for the many dollars the government get for selling you the regulation, permits for every thing under the sun.

The other part is that if you follow the regulation blindly you will be more apt to go broke.

Note, i was not talking about running a lemonade stand but from what i have heard it is hard for kids to do that any more.

Unfettered capitalism? just a dammed big lie except for the ones who support the socialist agenda.

America,s problem is not unfettered Capitalism but watered down Capitalism.


25 posted on 12/05/2013 10:25:11 AM PST by ravenwolf
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To: Slyfox

Why is it when we finally get the straight scoop from Pope Francis rather than thru media filters we get a whole different picture?


I believe the Pope is against communism but if he is talking about unfettered Capitalism that would be just the same as Obama talking about the same thing.

Any one who believes Capitalism is unfettered should try going into business for themselves.

It is said that approximately 50 percent of businesses fail in the first year. the numbers go way up after that.

I have been there and the biggest reason is Government regulations, the main purpose of the regulation is for the many dollars the government get for selling you the regulation, permits for every thing under the sun.

The other part is that if you follow the regulation blindly you will be more apt to go broke.

Note, i was not talking about running a lemonade stand but from what i have heard it is hard for kids to do that any more.

Unfettered capitalism? just a dammed big lie except for the ones who support the socialist agenda.

America,s problem is not unfettered Capitalism but watered down Capitalism.


26 posted on 12/05/2013 10:26:28 AM PST by ravenwolf
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To: Salvation

I would suggest that Adam Shaw read up on subsidiarity. It starts at the lowest form of help — church community and then trickles up.


I believe as far as the Government subsidiarity is concerned when the socialists are in power is for it to first pour up out of the pockets of the tax payers and then trickle down to the old people and people who can not support them selves.

But most of it pours into liberal organizations and every other place where it should not go, too numerous to mention.


27 posted on 12/05/2013 10:53:50 AM PST by ravenwolf
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

St. Peter and the disciples were unfettered capitalists:

Unfettered means “unshackled, liberated” [Webster 1887]

John21:3 ff
“3 Simon Peter said to them, “I am going fishing.” They said to him, “We will also come with you.” They went out and got into the boat; and that night they caught nothing.
4But when the day was now breaking, Jesus stood on the beach; yet the disciples did not know that it was Jesus. 5So Jesus said to them, “Children, you do not have any fish, do you?” They answered Him, “No.” 6And He said to them, “Cast the net on the right-hand side of the boat and you will find a catch.” So they cast, and then they were not able to haul it in because of the great number of fish.”


28 posted on 12/05/2013 11:36:47 AM PST by bunkerhill7 ("The Second Amendment has no limits on firepower"-NY State Senator Kathleen A. Marchione.")
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
The first time the media came out with a supposed expose about Francis I, the world was absolutely shocked that the Church had a madman at it's helm.

Then the truth came out and it was discovered that we didn't have a madman at the helm.

Now he speaks on the economy and the powers-that-be have equated him with Marx and Obama.

I am sorry, but I don't believe the media. I am going to wait for the proper explanation.

I posted what I did just because.

29 posted on 12/05/2013 12:03:39 PM PST by Slyfox (Satan's goal is to rub out the image of God he sees in the face of every human.)
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To: ravenwolf
I believe the Pope is against communism but if he is talking about unfettered Capitalism...

That is my very point. Most of the people who are reporting on the whole subject are using every opportunity they can find to marginalize the work of this Pope. And then there are the conservatives who do not have a large enough historical and philosophical background to understand what he is really talking about.

The Leftists hate him, his guts and all of us who are real Catholics. I will not take the word of any leftist or any other person who does not know the real scoop.

30 posted on 12/05/2013 12:21:12 PM PST by Slyfox (Satan's goal is to rub out the image of God he sees in the face of every human.)
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To: Salvation
Find a church with a Tidentine or Maronite Mass. You will not be disappointed.

At least a Maronite Mass would keep someone from sleeping.


31 posted on 12/05/2013 12:28:55 PM PST by Old Yeller (America: Under Iranian hostage since Jan. 20, 2008.)
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To: Slyfox

I will not take the word of any leftist or any other person who does not know the real scoop.


That is about the way i see it, i don,t believe hardly anything i hear and only half of what i think i see.


32 posted on 12/05/2013 1:31:21 PM PST by ravenwolf
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To: xsmommy
i see what you are saying, but WHY?

Why? I don't know. But I think what he's getting at with all of these messages he's been telling the world since he was chosen as pope is that we need to live in a Christ-like manner. Help the needy. Forgive the sinner. Pray for our enemies. The very things that Christ spoke about.

33 posted on 12/05/2013 2:02:42 PM PST by al_c (Obama's standing in the world has fallen so much that Kenya now claims he was born in America.)
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To: lacrew

My point exactly. Thank you.


34 posted on 12/05/2013 2:03:17 PM PST by al_c (Obama's standing in the world has fallen so much that Kenya now claims he was born in America.)
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To: cothrige
I have seen a couple of people say this around here and I still don't get what it means. I can accept that we may be misreading him, though I am equally inclined to think he is likely misspeaking, but how does universality change anything? If a man says that free markets and economic growth are not going to bring about greater justice and inclusiveness, how is that meliorated by saying it isn't about the US but everybody? I can't possibly understand a difference in that. Either a person recognizes that economic prosperity gives people opportunities, jobs and the dignity they provide, food on their table, and shelter over their heads, or they don't. Whether I dislike capitalism in this country or everywhere hardly changes what my opinion represents and means in regard to prosperity and freedom. A universal authoritarian is also a local authoritarian.

Good questions ... understandable. I think my point with Fox and the other news stations ... especially these blow-hard talk show hosts that seem to enjoy hearing themselves speak ... tend to hear what the pope is saying based on their political leanings ... leanings that are found mostly in our country. That said, I think that the pope is intending for this message to be for the people, not necessarily the leaders to hear. I believe, as I'm sure you do too, that charity best belongs in the hands of the people, not the government. We are the ones that need to take our capitalist dollars ... which God has blessed us with ... and use what we can to help those that are in need.

But as I said, I haven't read this document cover to cover yet. I may learn more as I read it ... maybe I'm just not seeing what these others are seeing in it. If I do, I'll be sure to post it here.

35 posted on 12/05/2013 2:10:59 PM PST by al_c (Obama's standing in the world has fallen so much that Kenya now claims he was born in America.)
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To: cothrige

Have you read this yet?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/3098569/posts


36 posted on 12/05/2013 2:11:58 PM PST by al_c (Obama's standing in the world has fallen so much that Kenya now claims he was born in America.)
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To: All

Ha, getting my Catholic news from FoxNews, thanks but no thanks. American media is singularly incapable of understanding the Church.


37 posted on 12/05/2013 4:28:13 PM PST by escapefromboston (manny ortez: mvp)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

They have a popular prophet


38 posted on 12/05/2013 5:40:25 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: al_c
No, I hadn't seen that yet. I wonder, though, why such a "clarification" should be necessary for a document of more than 50,000 words. That wasn't enough space to be clear in?

I am also detecting a pattern from the pope in these things which makes me rather uncomfortable. He starts out saying disconcerting things which just happen to be very popular among those who dislike Catholic social doctrine very much, and then he "clarifies" this in a much less publicised way that only those desperately seeking something less frightening to hold onto will go in search of. This allows the pope to get the support of the left and the anti-traditional, and yet still gives those who are more orthodox an out that they can use to assuage their doubts about him. A win/win, but a bit too political and convenient, as well as being confusing and contradictory if actually looked at closely. I am reminded a bit of the governor in The Best Little W***ehouse in Texas when he keeps saying contradictory things about whether he is going to close down the Chicken Ranch, and we in the pews are like the reporters trying to figure out if what he said meant yes or no. So, is homosexuality a sin? Are atheists saved? Are capitalism and free market economics evil? Well, that's a possible maybe.

39 posted on 12/05/2013 7:16:49 PM PST by cothrige
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To: xsmommy; SoothingDave; hobbes1

oh, boy......you can’t miss this thread.


40 posted on 12/05/2013 7:18:05 PM PST by tioga (Wise men still seek Him.)
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To: Old Yeller

Please go back and re-read that — it says Maronite, not marionette.


41 posted on 12/05/2013 7:20:13 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: cothrige

I share your concern for the very same reason.


42 posted on 12/06/2013 4:49:38 AM PST by xsmommy
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To: xsmommy

A long way from “Father Smith Instructs Jackson”.


43 posted on 12/07/2013 4:02:06 AM PST by onedoug
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To: bunkerhill7

The question left unanswered is how were the fish redistributed after the EPA confiscated them and fined the Apostles for fishing in protected waters?


44 posted on 12/10/2013 12:12:07 PM PST by JediJones (The #1 Must-see Filibuster of the Year: TEXAS TED AND THE CONSERVATIVE CRUZ-ADE)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet; Da Coyote; LurkedLongEnough; xsmommy; ravenwolf; Bulwyf; cizinec; cothrige; ...

Update bump...

The writer of the article has been fired from his job as an entertainment critic for the church’s Catholic News Service. It appears criticizing the Pope is the one unforgivable sin.

http://freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3099442/posts?page=31


45 posted on 12/10/2013 12:12:11 PM PST by JediJones (The #1 Must-see Filibuster of the Year: TEXAS TED AND THE CONSERVATIVE CRUZ-ADE)
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