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Source: Pope Francis Likely to Offer 'Clarification' to Distance Himself from 'Liberation Theology'
Breitbart - Big Peace ^ | December 5, 2013 | Michael Patrick Leahy

Posted on 12/05/2013 9:46:31 AM PST by don-o

A source familiar with the inner workings of the Vatican told Breitbart News on Monday that Pope Francis is likely to offer a "clarification" of his comments on economics contained in his apostolic exhortation released on November 24, Evangelii Guadium (in English, "The Joy of the Gospel"). Though the timing of such a "clarification" is uncertain, it is likely to come in the form of a speech to a group rather than in a formal papal document.

The source told Breitbart News that key figures at the Vatican are already discussing the problems caused by the document's confused and inconsistent forays into economic policy. As Breitbart News has reported, the use of language consistent with Latin American "liberation theology" in that document has had a significant impact on the political dialogue in the United States over the past ten days.

The left has grabbed several passages from the document and described them as a rejection of free market economics and an endorsement of the statist redistributive policies of the Obama administration. Some on the left have used the Pope's word as a justification for the Occupy Wall Street movement.

Among prominent conservatives, Rush Limbaugh has criticized the Pope for appearing to embrace "liberation theology." Many conservatives are wondering why the pope decided to venture beyond the realm of the Gospel into the arena of political and economic theory in the first place.

Defenders of the Pope have pointed out that economics, though it received almost all of the press coverage, was a small part of the document, most of which focused on a new call to evangelization. They portray him not as a "liberation theologist," but a rather as more of a "right wing Peronist" from Argentina

(Excerpt) Read more at breitbart.com ...


TOPICS: Current Events
KEYWORDS: catholic; popefrancis; rushlimbaugh
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1 posted on 12/05/2013 9:46:31 AM PST by don-o
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To: don-o

Rush Limbaugh is not the only one who thinks this way. I am a Catholic and I am getting increasingly agitated about the types of bishops and cardinals who are embracing politics in terms of “social justice”.


2 posted on 12/05/2013 9:50:11 AM PST by Allison_Wonderland
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To: don-o

Being foggy about causes but clear about effects can cause confusion all right. Where is the gospel supposed to get a grip in this picture, and how? It might be the intention to get it in there grass roots rather than as a government dictum, but unless Francis actually says so, it’s going to be taken wrong. That’s the bent of the age.


3 posted on 12/05/2013 9:50:34 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: don-o

Why clarify.
He said what he said, these “clarifications” just mean “you who read this, did not understand what I meant”


4 posted on 12/05/2013 9:54:47 AM PST by svcw (Not 'hope and change' but 'dopes in chains')
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To: don-o

As I’ve said earlier, he has a strong record of opposition to Liberation Theology during his time as a bishop in South America.

But I think it’s true that a lot of bishops could use an education in basic economics. Charitable giving is one thing. Socialist government is quite another.


5 posted on 12/05/2013 9:58:28 AM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: don-o
offer a "clarification" of his comments on economics contained in his apostolic exhortation

Sounds like the Pope doesn't think he was mis-translated, just misunderstood. "I'd ask unanimous consent to revise and extend my remarks."

6 posted on 12/05/2013 9:58:30 AM PST by xone
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To: don-o
A source familiar with the inner workings of the Vatican told Breitbart News on Monday that Pope Francis is likely to offer a "clarification" of his comments on economics contained in his apostolic exhortation released on November 24, Evangelii Guadium (in English, "The Joy of the Gospel"). Though the timing of such a "clarification" is uncertain, it is likely to come in the form of a speech to a group rather than in a formal papal document.

Should we refer to this source as "Deep Throat"?

7 posted on 12/05/2013 10:02:49 AM PST by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: Allison_Wonderland

Basically this comes down to “Render unto Caesar those things which are Caesar’s and unto God those things which are God’s”

The pope should stay out of economic policy unless he desires to serve in a legislature.


8 posted on 12/05/2013 10:03:55 AM PST by cotton1706
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To: Allison_Wonderland

Watch what you say, lol! I posted the same thing on another thread and the Savonarolas were out in the droves telling me to go to confession.


9 posted on 12/05/2013 10:05:14 AM PST by miss marmelstein (Richard Lives Yet!)
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To: don-o
They portray him not as a "liberation theologist," but a rather as more of a "right wing Peronist" from Argentina whose economic views have been formed by a life time spent in a country run by crony-capitalists, dictators, and oligarchs.

Of which Peron was one. Juan and Evita, despite their rhetoric, were most responsible for creating the crony capitalists and oligarchs. Peronism is a form of corporatism with the state getting into bed with the crony-capitalists. Rather unfortunate that Pope Francis and most of Argentina have never that lesson.

10 posted on 12/05/2013 10:06:11 AM PST by C19fan
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To: Allison_Wonderland; onyx

Amen, Allison.

I have never enjoyed bragging rights on our own US Bishops Conference or their forthcoming “forays” into liberal causes and effects.

Certainly this pope has stepped on his mission by wagging with wags, and it hurts. I remain loyal to his kindness and his precious, loving face, but wince at his naivety on freedom and capitalism. His Argentinian experience belies the facts in so many cases.

Maybe the phrase, “bless your heart, Francis dear...” would be useful about now.


11 posted on 12/05/2013 10:06:23 AM PST by RitaOK ( VIVA CHRISTO REY / Public education is the farm team for more Marxists coming.)
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To: xone
I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. A. Greenspan (maybe)
12 posted on 12/05/2013 10:06:41 AM PST by DManA
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To: don-o

How did the Jesuits go from the most conservative to the most left-wing religious order so quickly? Or am I wrong?


13 posted on 12/05/2013 10:06:53 AM PST by 2ndDivisionVet ("Of the 4 wars in my lifetime none came about because the US was too strong." Reagan)
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The source told Breitbart News that key figures at the Vatican are already discussing the problems caused by the document's confused and inconsistent forays into economic policy.

This is getting embarrassing. Can't blame it on the spontentaity of verbal interviews anymore. Now apostolic exhortations are causing problems within the Vatican.

14 posted on 12/05/2013 10:08:05 AM PST by ebb tide
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To: don-o
Obama used part of the Pope's statement in his speech about inequality yesterday.

The fact that Obama is latching onto the Pope's ideas is indicative that the Pope indeed had a socialist leaning in his statement.

They portray him not as a "liberation theologist," but a rather as more of a "right wing Peronist" from Argentina

Why on earth would they elevate Peron? Wow...they seem all mixed up.

15 posted on 12/05/2013 10:09:08 AM PST by what's up
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To: don-o

I wonder if it would be possible for the church to go “political philosophy free”? (Of course such a concept would need to be extensively fleshed out, and likely have different rules for clergy than for laity.)

It is not immediately evident what this involves, other than perhaps that the church interests lie in “ends”, not “means” to those ends.

For example, feeding the poor is an end to itself, but there are many means to accomplish it. Some good and work, some are bad and do not work. What the church would continue to do is endorse the end, not one or more of the possible means to that end.

In recent years, the church has erred in embracing some means and condemning others, based on the *promise* of ends that may or may not be delivered.

Is socialism, or capitalism, the best means to feed the poor? The church should refrain from guessing, investing with one political philosophy or another, and focus on the end of feeding the poor.

This also means that the church must be objective. Continuing to embrace a failed philosophy is just dim-witted, even if it sounds good or looks good on paper. The end results of doing so are people like Nancy Pelosi, who calls herself a Catholic, while rejecting Catholicism, even Christianity itself.


16 posted on 12/05/2013 10:10:30 AM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy (Last Obamacare Promise: "If You Like Your Eternal Soul, You Can Keep It.")
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To: don-o

Poor, ickle Pope is snared in his Liberation Theology.


17 posted on 12/05/2013 10:11:43 AM PST by GladesGuru (Islam Delenda Est - Because of what Islam is and because of what Muslims do.)
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To: svcw

Because people should be able to understand what he stated.


18 posted on 12/05/2013 10:12:04 AM PST by dangus
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To: Allison_Wonderland
I am a Catholic and I am getting increasingly agitated about the types of bishops and cardinals who are embracing politics in terms of “social justice”.

Catholic "social justice" has caused trouble for years.

It was one of the reasons for the liberation theology in South American.

Maybe it's finally coming to a head; I'd love to see Catholics in the US finally staunchly in the conservative camp instead of voting majority Dem as I think they often do.

19 posted on 12/05/2013 10:13:40 AM PST by what's up
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To: RitaOK

Yet I love him because he is willing to learn from his missteps.

It does seem like a rather difficult job, doesn’t it? ;-)


20 posted on 12/05/2013 10:14:47 AM PST by dangus
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To: Allison_Wonderland
I am getting increasingly agitated about the types of bishops and cardinals who are embracing politics in terms of “social justice”.

Cardinal Dolan didn't help matters any when he said recently the Catholic church would be among Obamacare's "biggest cheerleaders" were it not for the birth control/abortion provisions.

The Pope can try to distance himself from "liberation theology" all he wants, but extricating that line of thinking from others in the church leadership will take some serious work.

21 posted on 12/05/2013 10:14:48 AM PST by ScottinVA (Obama is so far in over his head, even his ears are beneath the water level.)
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To: don-o

Having now read the portion on economics, what bothered me most was the use of the phrase “trickle down.” Is that an exact translation from the original or the American translator’s phrase? Who did the translation? It’s a politically charged term once leveled against supply-side economics, and therefore the use of it makes the encyclical political and even worldly, and injects it directly into American politics. I doubt that this was the Pope’s intention.


22 posted on 12/05/2013 10:18:08 AM PST by Ge0ffrey
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To: Allison_Wonderland

I agree with you.


23 posted on 12/05/2013 10:19:05 AM PST by b4its2late (A Progressive is a person who will give away everything he doesn't own.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

I do believe this adorable man (Pope Francis) has in the press led with his naivety and based his opinion on his own experience in Argentina.

His innocence has gotten him rolled but good.

I give him time to recover from comments that offend the facts, as pertain to markets and economic philosophies, and lead more with educated reserve on such subjects beyond his expertise.


24 posted on 12/05/2013 10:19:30 AM PST by RitaOK ( VIVA CHRISTO REY / Public education is the farm team for more Marxists coming.)
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To: what's up
I'd love to see Catholics in the US finally staunchly in the conservative camp instead of voting majority Dem as I think they often do.

Ditto

25 posted on 12/05/2013 10:19:43 AM PST by b4its2late (A Progressive is a person who will give away everything he doesn't own.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

You are wrong. They’ve been that way for decades. Their influence in the American labor movement is longstanding. e.g. the Xavier Labor School in NYC (one of many)


26 posted on 12/05/2013 10:20:01 AM PST by Roccus
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To: Allison_Wonderland
re: I am a Catholic and I am getting increasingly agitated about the types of bishops and cardinals who are embracing politics in terms of “social justice”.

I know a student who attended an elite Catholic high-school in my area a few years back. I was dismayed to see that her religion textbooks were full of references to “social justice” that were actually nothing more than your standard Marxist liberation theology.

27 posted on 12/05/2013 10:20:16 AM PST by Nevadan
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To: ScottinVA
Yes, the US Bishops have been pushing socialized medicine in the States for years.

Even the Pope in his latest document said that politicians should push for "guaranteed" health care.

28 posted on 12/05/2013 10:22:45 AM PST by what's up
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To: don-o

About friggin time he made it clear he wasn’t with those sick Marxist Jesuits who have enabled dictators for decades.


29 posted on 12/05/2013 10:23:11 AM PST by montag813 (NO AMNESTY * ENFORCE THE LAW * http://StandWithArizona.com)
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To: don-o

The Pope should stick to subjects he knows about. He’s a very educated man who went into territory about which he plainly knows very little. Socialism/government, or whatever we are comfortable with calling it in this context, is very seductive to those who want to alleviate poverty. Very seductive, almost like it’s a product of forces that are inimical to the Pope’s purpose.

I’m not Catholic, but I have admired the resolve of the last two Popes, as they have faced down Communism, and the rot of our culture. The Catholic Church is an important rampart against the foes of Western Civilization. I hope this Pope is up to the task.


30 posted on 12/05/2013 10:23:15 AM PST by cdcdawg (Be seeing you...)
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To: don-o

I don’t know why he has been so naïve about what the press would do with his statements, but be that as it may, while he seems to be learning, he’s got a ways to go.

He is actually very opposed to “Liberation Theology,” has said so a number of times and actually suspended or silenced priests preaching it, but his general statements are so conversational in tone and so guileless that the press can do what they want.

Also, bear in mind that this exhortation was first published, not in Latin, but in Spanish, because he writes in Spanish or Italian. Since Spanish is a modern language, there are many nuances you wouldn’t get in ecclesiastical Latin. For example, in at least one case (when he was talking about the trickle-down theory), he said in Spanish that it was “not enough in itself” to help the poor. In the English translation, it came out simply that it would not help the poor.

The other thing that Pope Francis doesn’t seem to want to believe is that there genuinely are people out to get him. It’s not just gossip or rumor. He’s got to be more prudent.


31 posted on 12/05/2013 10:23:32 AM PST by livius
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To: don-o
FRANKIE FRANKIE FRANKIE...WHAT NEXT YOU COMIN OUT WITH A 'NASTY LIVING WAGE' PROCLAMATION THIS I RA....HE NEEDS TO FILL UP HIS HEAD WITH THE WORDS OF RUSH LIMBAUGH'S SHOW AND THE BOOKS OF ANN COULTER ...AND GIT HIS MIND RIGHT....ANY BODY WIF CONTACTS IN THE VATICAN AND PASS THIS ON SO AS TO HELP HIM FORM A SUITABLE FRAME OF MIND MOVING...FORWARD. SEE THESE TWO FRANK YOU'LL BE BETTER FOR IT...AS IS YER KIND OF EMBARASSING..



ANN COULTER SUPER WOMAN




32 posted on 12/05/2013 10:25:29 AM PST by jimsin
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To: All
I really don't care what Jorge Mario Bergoglio thinks about economic theories and I don't know why anybody else should either. He is certainly no scholar in this area. He shows his arrogance and ignorance by pontificating about it. He is just a a man like any other and to cling to every word or pronouncement he makes indicates a type of worship of the man which is not Biblically allowed. If anyone deigns to bring Apostolic Succession, please show the Bible references that explains and justifies it.
33 posted on 12/05/2013 10:26:16 AM PST by BipolarBob
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To: don-o

**Many conservatives are wondering why the pope decided to venture beyond the realm of the Gospel into the arena of political and economic theory in the first place. **

Jesus had a lot to say about money, got example, overturning the money changers tables in the outside rooms of the temple, the widow who gave of her substinence — two coins only, calling Matthew the tax collector, the steward to whom he gave 10, 5, and 1 talent, “man cannot serve God and money.”


34 posted on 12/05/2013 10:27:51 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Nevadan

Common Core has been picked up in 100 US dioceses.

A letter of protest exposing the goals, practices and materials of Common Core has very recently been sent to every bishop. Signers are numerous and i mean numerous, and by by powerfully experienced, expert educators from renown universities and institutions. .

Source: news column via newadvent.org.


35 posted on 12/05/2013 10:32:22 AM PST by RitaOK ( VIVA CHRISTO REY / Public education is the farm team for more Marxists coming.)
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To: Allison_Wonderland

You seem not to be aware about what is happening with the Bishops in the U. S. The Bernardin Boys and Jadot Jots, as I call them, were liberals and are either retiring or being asked to retire.

They are being replaced by orthodox and conserbative Bishops nominated by Pope John Paul II, Pope Benedict XVI and Pope Francis.

We even got a conservative Bishop in western Oregon! Hooray.

Now tell me again why you are bad-mouthing Bishops??? Time for Confession for you?

Priests take a vow to obey their Bishops, and we, by being Catholic, take an unspoken vow to obey our priest.

Why say something negative when you can find at least one positive thing to say?


36 posted on 12/05/2013 10:33:50 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Ge0ffrey

What encyclical? This document was not an encyclical.


37 posted on 12/05/2013 10:35:26 AM PST by impimp
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To: Salvation

Jesus also said the poor will always be with us.


38 posted on 12/05/2013 10:35:27 AM PST by ebb tide
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To: BipolarBob
please show the Bible references that explains and justifies it.

Please show the reference in the Bible that states that henceforth only references in the Bible are admissible.

39 posted on 12/05/2013 10:37:44 AM PST by steve86 (Some things aren't really true but you wouldn't be half surprised if they were.)
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To: don-o

They get EIB in Rome?


40 posted on 12/05/2013 10:38:04 AM PST by Sybeck1
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The Jesuits were extreme leftists when I was a freshman at a Jesuit High school in 1967. I remember one Jesuit priest who might have been a conservative, but he has been dead for a long time.


41 posted on 12/05/2013 10:38:08 AM PST by forgotten man
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To: Salvation; Allison_Wonderland
Time for Confession for you?

Getting a little personal, huh? How do you know the last time anyone went to Confessions, let alone tell them it's time to go?

42 posted on 12/05/2013 10:39:26 AM PST by ebb tide
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To: cotton1706

That is my understanding of THE WORD.


43 posted on 12/05/2013 10:39:59 AM PST by LibLieSlayer (FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS! BETTER DEAD THAN RED!)
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Comment #44 Removed by Moderator

To: don-o

When the Pope stars talking about “chickens coming home to roost” you know that the chickens are coming home to roost.


45 posted on 12/05/2013 10:43:41 AM PST by spokeshave (OMG.......Schadenfreude overload is not covered under Obamacare :-()
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I attended a Jesuit university decades ago and the Jesuits were worldly and rather left-leaning even back in those days. Their left-wing views are not a recent development, sorry to say.


46 posted on 12/05/2013 10:43:51 AM PST by july4thfreedomfoundation (The Second Amendment makes all the other amendments possible)
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To: steve86
Please show the reference in the Bible that states that henceforth only references in the Bible are admissible.

So you're still having trouble with the Sola Scriptura thing? Well what else have we to reliably go by? Your churchs traditions? They have been proven to be unreliable. What did Jesus practice? When confronted by the devil himself, He fought back with "It is written . . . " and defeated him. What does the Word of God say? 2Tim. 3:16,17 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness; that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished into all good works".

47 posted on 12/05/2013 10:50:14 AM PST by BipolarBob
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To: Ge0ffrey; dangus

Ge0ffrey, I know few on this thread bothered with reading through the article posted, but your question was answered in the column.

I know, dangus, my friend, there is truly a translation problem to be tackled, according to Father Z., but never mind, Obama is flogging it and the anti Catholics are enjoying a field day all based on a new pope’s naivety and convenient flaws in translation. ;!


48 posted on 12/05/2013 10:52:25 AM PST by RitaOK ( VIVA CHRISTO REY / Public education is the farm team for more Marxists coming.)
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To: Allison_Wonderland
Rush Limbaugh is not the only one who thinks this way. I am a Catholic and I am getting increasingly agitated about the types of bishops and cardinals who are embracing politics in terms of “social justice

I'm so bothered by our priest & his Hispanic issues that it's become best for me not to participate in the church things. I'll take my issues straight to the heavens & avoid the middleman.

49 posted on 12/05/2013 10:52:48 AM PST by Digger
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To: what's up

If you claim the name of Christ yet vote for socialism (ie, Democrats),
what you’re doing is trying to transfer your personal,
individual obligation to care for the widows and orphans
onto the collective so that you won’t have to make any personal sacrifice to do so.


50 posted on 12/05/2013 10:57:16 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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