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Race, Priesthood and Infallibility [Lds tries to explain away past doctrine as mere 'theories']
DovesandSerpents.org ^ | Dec. 9, 2013 | Brent

Posted on 12/10/2013 5:49:29 PM PST by Colofornian

The church has put up a couple interesting...topic pages recently on LDS.org...

Today, the Church disavows the theories advanced in the past...

Funny, I don’t see the word “theory” used here:

...(2 Nephi 5:21).

...“theory” wasn’t used in this statement on the “negro question”:

The position of the Church regarding the Negro may be understood when another doctrine of the Church is kept in mind, namely, that the conduct of spirits in the premortal existence has some determining effect upon the conditions and circumstances under which these spirits take on mortality (Statement by the First Presidency, August 17, 1949).

Joseph Fielding Smith didn’t use it here:

There were no neutrals in the war in Heaven. All took sides either with Christ or with Satan...The Negro, evidently, is receiving the reward he merits (...Doctrines of Salvation).

Bruce...McConkie didn’t use...“theory” here:

Those...less valiant in pre-existence and...had certain spiritual restrictions impose on them during mortality are known to us as the negroes. Such spirits are sent to earth through the lineage of Cain, the mark put upon him for his rebellion against God, and his murder of Able being a black skin...the negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain spiritual blessings are concerned...(Mormon Doctrine, 1966...).

SNIP

This wasn’t a “cultural” issue. This wasn’t a case of church members making up unauthorized “theories” to explain a problematic policy. This was top-down, from-the-prophet-himself doctrine, and this doctrine is preserved (like an insect in amber) in the historical record. The notion that black skin was a divine curse and ...deserved their state...shows up in official statements from the first presidency...These ideas were preached as doctrine from the pulpit in church-wide conferences...were included in official publications and manuals. And...were perceived (and received) as doctrine by faithful members of the church...

(Excerpt) Read more at dovesandserpents.org ...


TOPICS: Current Events; History; Other Christian; Other non-Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: antichristian; inman; lds; mormonism; priesthood; racism
Please read the blog in its entirety.

From the blog:
Today, the Church disavows the theories advanced in the past...
Funny, I don’t see the word “theory” used here:
...(2 Nephi 5:21).
...“theory” wasn’t used in this statement on the “negro question”: The position of the Church regarding the Negro may be understood when another doctrine of the Church is kept in mind, namely, that the conduct of spirits in the premortal existence has some determining effect upon the conditions and circumstances under which these spirits take on mortality (Statement by the First Presidency, August 17, 1949).
Joseph Fielding Smith didn’t use it here: There were no neutrals in the war in Heaven. All took sides either with Christ or with Satan...The Negro, evidently, is receiving the reward he merits (...Doctrines of Salvation).
Bruce...McConkie didn’t use...“theory” here: Those...less valiant in pre-existence and...had certain spiritual restrictions impose on them during mortality are known to us as the negroes. Such spirits are sent to earth through the lineage of Cain, the mark put upon him for his rebellion against God, and his murder of Able being a black skin...the negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain spiritual blessings are concerned...(Mormon Doctrine, 1966...).

So Brent provides four citations:
* 2 Nephi 5:21 -- from the Book of Mormon. And who, according to Joseph Smith in the Lds "scriptures" Doctrines & Covenants 24:1 wrote the Book of Mormon?

None other than Joseph Smith himself!
1 Behold, thou wast called and chosen to WRITE the Book of Mormon, and to my ministry;
D&C24:1

* He then cites a 1949 Mormon Church statement issued by the highest hierarchy in the Church: The Presidency. And that Presidential statement says its official "position of the Church regarding the negro..." is directly influenced by a "doctrine" of the pre-existent disfavor in pre-mortality being carried out in mortal life.

* Brent goes on to quote Joseph Fielding Smith, who later became the 10th "Prophet" of the Mormon Church;
* and Lds "apostle" Bruce McConkie, whose 1966 Mormon Doctrine book was revised after Lds "Prophet" David McKay had one of his counselors review the book and the other counselor (eventual "prophet" Spencer Kimball) mentor McConkie to ensure changes from the 1958 edition were made. It had the imprimatur of TWO Lds "prophets!"

And, after making this case, the blogger brings home an extremely valid point:

This wasn’t a “cultural” issue. This wasn’t a case of church members making up unauthorized “theories” to explain a problematic policy. This was top-down, from-the-prophet-himself doctrine, and this doctrine is preserved (like an insect in amber) in the historical record. The notion that black skin was a divine curse and ...deserved their state...shows up in official statements from the first presidency...These ideas were preached as doctrine from the pulpit in church-wide conferences...were included in official publications and manuals. And...were perceived (and received) as doctrine by faithful members of the church...


1 posted on 12/10/2013 5:49:29 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian
I wasn't aware that an official declaration and revelation announced by a prophet, recorded as scripture in one of their "four major works", could be considered a "theory":
To Whom It May Concern:

On September 30, 1978, at the 148th Semiannual General Conference of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the following was presented by President N. Eldon Tanner, First Counselor in the First Presidency of the Church:

In early June of this year, the First Presidency announced that a revelation had been received by President Spencer W. Kimball extending priesthood and temple blessings to all worthy male members of the Church. President Kimball has asked that I advise the conference that after he had received this revelation, which came to him after extended meditation and prayer in the sacred rooms of the holy temple, he presented it to his counselors, who accepted it and approved it. It was then presented to the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, who unanimously approved it, and was subsequently presented to all other General Authorities, who likewise approved it unanimously.


2 posted on 12/10/2013 5:59:37 PM PST by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: Colofornian

Theoretically, the LDS Church sometimes considers tithing important ...

3 posted on 12/10/2013 6:05:54 PM PST by Zakeet (If socialists understood economics, they wouldn't be socialists - Friedrich Hayek)
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To: Colofornian

They’re always in denial.


4 posted on 12/10/2013 6:11:12 PM PST by SkyDancer (Live your life in such a way that the Westboro church will want to picket your funeral.)
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To: Alex Murphy; All
I wasn't aware that an official declaration and revelation announced by a prophet, recorded as scripture in one of their "four major works", could be considered a "theory": ... In early June of this year, the First Presidency announced that a revelation had been received by President Spencer W. Kimball extending priesthood and temple blessings to all worthy male members of the Church.

Exactly.

I mean what? It took a 1978 "revelation" from the Mormon gods to trump previous "theories" held by the Mormon divinities?

What? These gods communicate wild immoral theories to their Salt Lake City -based mouthpiece?

5 posted on 12/10/2013 6:17:08 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: Zakeet; Utah Binger; greyfoxx39; All
Theoretically, the LDS Church sometimes considers tithing important ...

And...theoretically...

It might...

...on some planet...

...some day...

...result in ...

...A Utah-based, Lds-Church constructed, upscale mega-$ mall...
...Perhaps something like: LDS Church opens upscale mall...

...or could even...

...theoretically-speaking...

...lead to...

...The Mormon church...

...buying its SECOND percent of Florida land...

...something I envision it to be...

...perhaps...

...theoretically...

...something like...

...Mormon church-owned company buys huge swath of Florida land...

...Oh, why do we just go on day-dreaming 'bout such wild "theories?"

6 posted on 12/10/2013 6:22:38 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: All
And this thread was posted this morning:
Race and the Priesthood [Lds Church attempts to explain its past racist prophets and policies]
7 posted on 12/10/2013 6:24:19 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: Zakeet

So proud to have Mormon neighbors. They are the nicest people in the world. Oh wait.


8 posted on 12/10/2013 6:44:49 PM PST by Utah Binger (Southern Utah where the world comes to see America)
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THX 1138


9 posted on 12/10/2013 7:02:57 PM PST by svcw (Not 'hope and change' but 'dopes in chains')
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Comment #10 Removed by Moderator

To: teppe

Teppe...if the Mormon church could focus on CHRISTmas — as much as they promote SMITHmas — they’d actually start moving away from blasphemous idolatry.


11 posted on 12/10/2013 7:47:58 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: Alex Murphy

Alex,

It’s kind of like your Calvanists relying on the Athenasian Creed for centuries until they discovered it was a forgery in the late 18th Century.

Then the Calvanist response was to denounce the Creed as a forgery but at the same time to double down and maintain the forged Creeds teachings as your main definitionon of Christ.

So Forgery, or Not Forgery? Either accept it all, or discard it all!

So, in other words, maybe you should seek to understand your own religion before you turn hypocrite against others.

Christ didn’t like hypocrites, if you claim to be a Christian, maybe you shouldn’t be one.


12 posted on 12/10/2013 7:53:40 PM PST by teppe (... for my God ... for my Family ... for my Country ....)
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To: Colofornian

That’s good!


13 posted on 12/10/2013 7:59:30 PM PST by VerySadAmerican (".....Barrack, and the horse Mohammed rode in on.")
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Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

To: teppe; Colofornian
It’s kind of like your Calvanists relying on the Athenasian Creed for centuries until they discovered it was a forgery in the late 18th Century. Then the Calvanist response was to denounce the Creed as a forgery but at the same time to double down and maintain the forged Creeds teachings as your main definitionon of Christ. So Forgery, or Not Forgery? Either accept it all, or discard it all!

I have no idea who these Calvanists are that you speak of, or what this Athenasian Creed is, why these Calvanists would claim that it's a forgery, or how someone can be scripturally illiterate enough to trust any late comer's re-definition of holy scripture. Perhaps if you provided some substantiating details and references about this forgery thing, we might be able to have an intelligent conversation on the subject.

So, in other words, maybe you should seek to understand your own religion before you turn hypocrite against others. Christ didn’t like hypocrites, if you claim to be a Christian, maybe you shouldn’t be one.

Do you think Spencer Kimball's revelation, as recorded in Doctrine and Covenants, is holy scripture?

15 posted on 12/10/2013 8:11:13 PM PST by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: teppe

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.


16 posted on 12/10/2013 8:13:55 PM PST by Religion Moderator
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To: teppe

Of course this creed really isn’t utilized in any church for many many years. The Nicene or the Apostle’s creeds are more typical.

But then with your erudition you already knew that right?


17 posted on 12/10/2013 8:41:24 PM PST by Nifster
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To: Colofornian
Today, the Church disavows the theories advanced in the past...

Funny, I don’t see the word “theory” used here:

Of COURSE you don't!

You're a HATER who does not understand the deep secrets of GOD!

--MormonDude(Don't you realize that they can change meanings of words at will?)

18 posted on 12/11/2013 4:05:34 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian; teppe

Ok; what did teppe say at #10?


19 posted on 12/11/2013 4:07:11 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: teppe
So, in other words, maybe you should seek to understand your own religion before you turn hypocrite against others.

Heck of an idea!!!





Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).
Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).
 
 
 
Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).
 
 
 
Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).
 
 
 
Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses
, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).
 
 
President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).
 
 
 
James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).
 
 
 
President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).
 
 
 
More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).
 
 
 
President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).
 
 
President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

20 posted on 12/11/2013 4:09:08 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: teppe
... you should seek to understand your own religion before you turn hypocrite against...

...the most correct Christian (actually, the ONLY) religious organization that has ALL the rules and regulations needed to work your way to heaven.

21 posted on 12/11/2013 4:11:10 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: teppe
Either accept it all, or discard it all!

Oh REALLY?

22 posted on 12/11/2013 4:12:07 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: teppe
Then the Calvanist response was to denounce the Creed as a forgery but at the same time to double down and maintain the forged Creeds teachings as your main definitionon of Christ.

Speaking of CREEDS....


Here is MORMONism's own creed:
 
 

Articles of Faith

The Articles of Faith outline 13 basic points of belief of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
The Prophet Joseph Smith first wrote them in a letter to John Wentworth, a newspaper editor,
in response to Mr. Wentworth's request to know what members of the Church believed.
They were subsequently published in Church periodicals.
They are now regarded as scripture and included in the Pearl of Great Price.

 
THE ARTICLES OF FAITH
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
History of the Church, Vol. 4, pp. 535—541
 
 

  1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
  2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
  3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
  4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
  5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
  6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
  7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
  8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
  9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
  10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
  11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
  12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
  13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Joseph Smith


 

23 posted on 12/11/2013 4:15:09 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: teppe
Speaking of PRECISECREEDS....



24 posted on 12/11/2013 4:18:24 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
(Don't you realize that they can change meanings of words at will?)

 

Here is an alphabetical list of some of the more important terms and their meanings to a Mormon:

AARONIC PRIESTHOOD: This is called the lesser priesthood, and is usually held by young men starting at the age of 12 to the age of about 18. It is also held for a short time by men who have just become members.

AFTERLIFE: The Mormon afterlife is divided up into four levels. From the lowest to the highest they are: hell, and then three levels of heaven: the telestial, the terrestrial, and the place where God dwells, the celestial (also called the kingdom of God). The celestial is also divided, the highest level being "exaltation," or becoming a God.

APOSTLES: The Mormon Church claims to have the same organization as the primitive church that Jesus set up. They also have twelve apostles and sometimes use this as a proof of their divine appointment as the one true church. But they actually have fifteen or more most of the time. The general practice has been for a new president, who is also an apostle, to appoint counselors from the Quorum of the Twelve; then the openings left by the president and his counselors are filled, resulting in a total of fifteen.

CELESTIAL KINGDOM: See Heaven.

ELOHIM: The name of God the Father.

EXALTATION: This is becoming a God in the highest level of the celestial kingdom.

ETERNAL PROGRESSION: The teaching that each of us has the potential to become a God just like God the Father did. He was once a man capable of physical death, was resurrected and progressed to become a God. We can take a similar path and get all the power, glory, dominion, and knowledge the Father and Jesus Christ has. We then will be able to procreate spirit children who will worship us as we do God the Father.

GOD: Usually means God the Father. He was once a man like us capable of physical death and he progressed until he became a God. He has a body of flesh and bones, but no blood. Within Mormonism, Gods, angels, people and devils all have the same nature or substance but are at different stages along the line of progression to Godhood.

GRACE - The Mormon concept of grace means making oneself worthy of the grace of God by doing good works in the church, temple, and community.

HEAVEN-The Mormon church teaches there are three levels of heaven (three "degrees of glory"):

HELL: A place of torment from which the worst of sinners are resurrected (if they repent) into the Telestial kingdom; only a limited number remain in hell forever, - the devil and the demons and apostates who consciously reject and work against Mormonism.

HOLY GHOST: The third member of the Godhead, a personage of spirit, unlike the Father and Son who have bodies of flesh and bones.

JEHOVAH: The pre-incarnate name for Jesus Christ.

JESUS CHRIST: The spirit of Jesus Christ was the first spirit born to God the Father and his wife (Heavenly Mother). He progressed to become a God under the Father. (The Father is also the literal father of Jesus' body in the exact same way we were begotten by our earthly parents.) He now has a body of flesh and bones, but no blood. He is the spirit brother of Satan whose spirit was procreated in the same way as Jesus'. To Mormons, even the atonement of his shed blood is not enough to provide forgiveness of sin and bring eternal life. Stripped of his Deity and demoted to a partial Savior, the Jesus of Mormonism has been robbed of his power and authority. Not only is the Mormon Jesus one who had struggled to achieve his own salvation, he also failed to establish his church. Both in Jerusalem and in the America's where Jesus was supposed to have visited, he attempted to build a group of followers. But in each case, truth was overcome by the alleged early church apostasy into false teaching.

MARRIAGE: The Mormon Church teaches two types of marriage. One ends at death. The other is for "time and eternity." If the couple is married in a Mormon temple by someone with authority it is believed they will stay married in the next life. This kind of marriage is needed if they are to progress, not only as husband and wife, but as God and Goddess.

MELCHIZEDEK PRIESTHOOD: The higher of two categories of ministry in the LDS Church, assigned primarily to seasoned members over the age of 18, males only.

POLYGAMY: The practice of men having more than one wife was started by Joseph Smith in the early/mid 1830's and ostensibly ended in 1890. It is not now sanctioned by the LDS church headquartered in Salt Lake City. Members found practicing it are excommunicated. While the practice was ended, the revelation teaching it is still in Mormon scripture (Doctrine & Covenants 132). Some Mormon splinter groups believe the teaching was for eternity and still practice it. These modern-day polygamists (called fundamentalists) number in the 30,000-50,000 range.

PRE-EXISTENCE: The Mormon teaching that our spirits (Mormons and non-Mormons) were procreated in a premortal life by God the Father and our Mother in Heaven, that our spirits were born and raised to maturity before coming to earth to obtain physical bodies, and that the spirit of Jesus Christ was the first one born to our Heavenly parents.

PRIESTHOOD: A category of ministry in the LDS Church open to all worthy males 12 years of age or older, empowering them to act in God's name. Non-Mormons cannot hold the priesthood, hence they have no authority. Men of African descent have only recently (by special correction of the original revelations) been allowed to hold these offices.

PROPHET: The top leader of the Mormon Church is considered not only a prophet but is also a seer and revelator. He has the title "president." He is the only one who can speak for the whole church and receive new revelation for the whole church. When the current prophet dies, the most senior (time as an apostle, not age) of the twelve apostles, the president of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, becomes the new president. He can appoint counselors, who receive their authority from him.

SALVATION: A word that Mormons qualify in one of three ways: unconditional or general salvation is simply resurrection from the dead, granted to all through Christ's atonement; conditional or individual salvation involves entering the celestial kingdom through works of Mormonism; full salvation means exaltation to become a God as a result of temple ceremonies and other works. The word 'salvation' can have a two-fold meaning: a) forgiveness of sins and b) universal resurrection:

The Mormons have several different levels of "salvation".

SATAN: One of the spirit children of God. As a consequence of their rebellion Satan and his angels cannot have mortal bodies - hence cannot progress.

SCRIPTURES: The Mormon Church has four documents it calls canonized scriptures: the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price, and the King James Version of the Holy Bible.

SON OF GOD: Along with Jesus Christ, all of us are viewed as the children of God, his literal spirit children. This makes us all - Mormons, non-Mormons, Jesus Christ and Satan - spirit brothers.

SPIRITS: Nonmaterial beings allegedly procreated in the pre-existence by God the Father and his wife. Jesus Christ, and even we ourselves, were supposedly born and raised to maturity as spirits before coming into bodies on this earth. The spirit of Satan was also procreated in this way. This makes Satan and Jesus Christ spirit brothers. Jesus selected a righteous path; Satan selected the opposite.

STANDARD WORKS: The four canonized scriptures (see Scripture above) used by the Mormon Church are called the Standard Works.

TEMPLE: One of about four dozen special (for LDS) buildings around the world in which sacred (to LDS) ceremonies are performed for the living and the dead; off limits to nonmembers and even to Mormons who lack a "temple recommend" from their leaders. Only about 20% of the Mormons qualify to go.

TRINITY: This word is used by Christians to summarize the Biblical teaching that within the one true God is three persons: God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost. They share the same nature or substance so that there are not three Gods, but three persons in the one God. Mormons say they also believe in the Trinitarian concept of God. But really what they mean are that God the Father is a God, God the Son is another God, and God the Holy Ghost is a third God and they are "one God" because they are "one in purpose." Mormons often have an incorrect understanding of what Christians mean by the "Trinity." They say Christians believe that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are one person (i.e., Monophysiteism) or that God shows himself as the Father or the Son or the Holy Ghost (i.e. Modalism).

VIRGIN BIRTH: A concept negated by the view that God, a resurrected man with flesh and bones according to Mormon teachings, literally fathered Jesus in the flesh in the same way in which earthly men father their children. Despite the documented position of previous Mormon prophets, presidents, and apostles about the nature of Christ's conception, modern LDS apologists maintain that "Christ was born of a virgin". How can they? By changing the definition of the word "virgin". The reasoning goes like this: since Mary had sexual relations with an immortal man, not a mortal man, the phrase "virgin birth" still applies.

WORD OF WISDOM: The name for the Mormon Church's teaching requiring abstinence from tobacco, alcohol, and hot drinks (tea and coffee).



25 posted on 12/11/2013 4:20:03 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
...the ONLY) religious organization that has ALL the rules and regulations needed to work your way to heaven.


Celestial - for Mormons who have kept ALL of the laws and ordinances of their church.

26 posted on 12/11/2013 4:23:16 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: teppe

Hey teppe!

You got a TR??


27 posted on 12/11/2013 4:23:52 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: teppe
Having a TR is really simple.


I have NO idea why only about 15% of all MORMONs have one...


 

Temple Recommend Questions



1 Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost?

2 Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer?

3 Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?

4 Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

5 Do you live the law of chastity?

6 Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?

7 Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

8 Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?

9 Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?

10 Are you a full-tithe payer?

11 Do you keep the Word of Wisdom?

12 Do you have financial or other obligations to a former spouse or children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations?

13 If you have previously received your temple endowment:

Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple?
Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?

14 Have there been any sins or misdeeds in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but have not been?

15 Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord's house and participate in temple ordinances?

28 posted on 12/11/2013 4:26:25 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian
This was top-down, from-the-prophet-himself doctrine, and this doctrine is preserved (like an insect in amber) in the historical record.





"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind.

The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings.

This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race--that they should be the 'servant of servants', and they will be, until that curse is removed."

Brigham Young-President and second 'Prophet' of the Mormon Church, 1844-1877- Extract from Journal of Discourses.



Here are two examples from their 'other testament', the Book of Mormon.

2 Nephi 5: 21 'And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people, the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.'

Alma 3: 6 'And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.'



August 27, 1954 in an address at Brigham Young University (BYU), Mormon Elder, Mark E Peterson, in speaking to a convention of teachers of religion at the college level, said:

"The discussion on civil rights, especially over the last 20 years, has drawn some very sharp lines. It has blinded the thinking of some of our own people, I believe. They have allowed their political affiliations to color their thinking to some extent.I think I have read enough to give you an idea of what the Negro is after."

"He is not just seeking the opportunity of sitting down in a cafe where white people eat. He isn't just trying to ride on the same streetcar or the same Pullman car with white people. It isn't that he just desires to go to the same theater as the white people. From this, and other interviews I have read, it appears that the Negro seeks absorption with the white race. He will not be satisfied until he achieves it by intermarriage."

"That is his objective and we must face it. We must not allow our feelings to carry us away, nor must we feel so sorry for Negroes that we will open our arms and embrace them with everything we have. Remember the little statement that we used to say about sin, 'First we pity, then endure, then embrace'...."

(Rosa Parks would have probably told Petersen under which wheel of the bus he should go sit.)



1967, (then) Mormon President Ezra Taft Benson said,

"The Communist program for revolution in America has been in progress for many years and is far advanced. First of all, we must not place the blame upon Negroes. They are merely the unfortunate group that has been selected by professional Communist agitators to be used as the primary source of cannon fodder."



We are told that on June 8, 1978, it was 'revealed' to the then president, Spencer Kimball, that people of color could now gain entry into the priesthood.

According to the church, Kimball spent many long hours petitioning God, begging him to give worthy black people the priesthood. God finally relented.



Sometime before the 'revelation' came to chief 'Prophet' Spencer Kimball in June 1978, General Authority, Bruce R McConkie had said:

"The Blacks are denied the Priesthood; under no circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty.

The Negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain blessings are concerned, particularly the priesthood and the temple blessings that flow there from, but this inequality is not of man's origin, it is the Lord's doings."

(Mormon Doctrine, pp. 526-527).



When Mormon 'Apostle' Mark E Petersen spoke on 'Race Problems- As they affect the Church' at the BYU campus in 1954, the following was also said:

"...if the negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get celestial glory."



When Mormon 'Prophet' and second President of the Church, Brigham Young, spoke in 1863 the following was also said:

"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God is death on the spot. This will always be so."

(Journal of Discourses, Vo. 10, p. 110)





Yeah; Native Americans are althroughout the Book of MORMON; too.

 

“I saw a striking contrast in the progress of the Indian people today ... they are fast becoming a white and delightsome people.... For years they have been growing delightsome, and they are now becoming white and delightsome, as they were promised.... The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation.

At one meeting a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter were present, the little member girl-sixteen-sitting between the dark father and mother, and it was evident she was several shades lighter than her parents—on the same reservation, in the same hogan, subject to the same sun and wind and weather.... These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness.

One white elder jokingly said that he and his companion were donating blood regularly to the hospital in the hope that the process might be accelerated.

 

(Improvement Era, December 1960, pp.922-23). (p. 209)

 



 

29 posted on 12/11/2013 4:29:38 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Alex Murphy

WHY should it take a REVELATION from GOD to change a THEORY?


30 posted on 12/11/2013 4:35:54 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Alex Murphy; teppe; Normandy; StormPrepper; restornu
It was then presented to the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, who unanimously approved it, and was subsequently presented to all other General Authorities, who likewise approved it unanimously.

Did ANY of these lapdogs do ANYTHING other than mew, "Yes, Bossman"?


Any extended meditation and prayer at ALL???

31 posted on 12/11/2013 4:38:48 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian

It seems to me that either they can believe that their “living prophets” are infallible, or that they are just spouting “theories”. You can’t believe both and be consistent.


32 posted on 12/11/2013 6:42:35 AM PST by Boogieman
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To: Boogieman
You can’t believe both and be consistent.

However...

You CAN believe both and be MORMON!

33 posted on 12/11/2013 9:17:05 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Boogieman
It seems to me that either they can believe that their “living prophets” are infallible, or that they are just spouting “theories”. You can’t believe both and be consistent.

IIRC, the current wisdom is that only the words of the standing LDS prophet are binding. Once that prophet dies and another takes his place, the dead prophet's words are no longer binding on Mormons. The new prophet is permitted to countermand if not outright contradict anything a previous prophet said.

Call it "Simon says".

34 posted on 12/11/2013 9:29:11 AM PST by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: Alex Murphy

Lunacy. If their words won’t be true five years from now, then they aren’t true today. A small child should be able to grasp that.


35 posted on 12/11/2013 10:29:07 AM PST by Boogieman
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To: Boogieman
Lunacy. If their words won’t be true five years from now, then they aren’t true today.

"Thus sayeth the Lord (if the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles unanimously approve it, and if the General Authorities unanimously approve it)!"

36 posted on 12/11/2013 10:35:44 AM PST by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: Alex Murphy

Prophecy by committee :)


37 posted on 12/11/2013 10:41:53 AM PST by Boogieman
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To: Boogieman
And convenience...
38 posted on 12/11/2013 12:08:08 PM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: Boogieman; Alex Murphy; All
Lunacy. If their words won’t be true five years from now, then they aren’t true today. A small child should be able to grasp that.

Yeah, of all the Lds "apostles" the only one possibly more racist than Bruce McConkie was Mark E. Petersen, who took the initiative (or was assigned) to wade into it out in the open with his "Race Problems --as they affect the Church" piece in August, 1954.

McConkie's Mormon Doctrine had the Cain racist rhetoric (see p. 109).

Then, after Kimball's "revelation"...McConkie was forced to eat crow...and did so publicly:

(1) "Forget everything that I have said, or what President Brigham Young or President George Q. Cannon or whoever has said in days past that is contrary to the present revelation. We spoke with a limited understanding and without the light and knowledge that has now come into the world." (Sermons and Writings of Bruce R. McConkie, pp. 164-165)

(2) "...the Lord has now given the revelation that sheds light out into the world on this subject. As to any slivers of light or any particles of darkness of the past, we forget about them." (Ibid, p. 165)

So...see ANYTHING these hierarchy-guys utter now -- will simply be written off...dismissed due to a "limited understanding and without the light and knowledge" that will supposedly flood the next "prophet."

39 posted on 12/11/2013 1:57:30 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: Alex Murphy; Boogieman; All
The new prophet is permitted to countermand if not outright contradict anything a previous prophet said. Call it "Simon says".

Or call it "King Cultist Commandeers"

40 posted on 12/11/2013 3:49:06 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: All; Elsie
From the Mormon church apologetic:

"Toward the end of his life, Church founder Joseph Smith openly opposed slavery."

Yeah, that must have been mixed in with Jos. Smith's other public policy...stated in January 1843 -- less than 18 mos. before his death...of...

Had I anything to do with the negro, I would confine them by strict law to their own species, and put them on a national equalization.

Source: (Lds) History of the Church, Volume 5, pp. 217-218 Copyright page reads:

History of Joseph Smith, the Prophet. By Himself. Volume V. An Introduction and Notes by B.H. Roberts. Published by the Church. By Deseret Book Company Salt Lake City, Utah 1978

Funny...how something republished by the Church 35 years ago...the EXACT same year of the so-called Kimball "revelation" on blacks -- and written by Joseph Smith himself -- gets totally ignored for "study" by their members (& investigators).

41 posted on 12/11/2013 4:49:29 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: Alex Murphy
IIRC, the current wisdom is that only the words of the standing LDS prophet are binding. Once that prophet dies and another takes his place, the dead prophet's words are no longer binding on Mormons. The new prophet is permitted to countermand if not outright contradict anything a previous prophet said.

Shirley; you MUST be kidding!!




In conclusion let us summarize this grand key, these “Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet”, for our salvation depends on them.


1. The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.
2. The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.
3. The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.
4. The prophet will never lead the church astray.
5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.
6. The prophet does not have to say “Thus Saith the Lord,” to give us scripture.
7. The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.
8. The prophet is not limited by men’s reasoning.
9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual.
10. The prophet may advise on civic matters.
11. The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.
12. The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.
13. The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidency—the highest quorum in the Church.
14. The prophet and the presidency—the living prophet and the First Presidency—follow them and be blessed—reject them and suffer.

I testify that these fourteen fundamentals in following the living prophet are true. If we want to know how well we stand with the Lord then let us ask ourselves how well we stand with His mortal captain—how close do our lives harmonize with the Lord’s anointed—the living Prophet—President of the Church, and with the Quorum of the First Presidency.

Ezra Taft Benson

(Address given Tuesday, February 26, 1980 at Brigham Young University)     http://www.lds.org/liahona/1981/06/fourteen-fundamentals-in-following-the-prophet?lang=eng

42 posted on 12/11/2013 8:46:57 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Alex Murphy
IIRC, the current wisdom is that only the words of the standing LDS prophet are binding. Once that prophet dies and another takes his place, the dead prophet's words are no longer binding on Mormons. The new prophet is permitted to countermand if not outright contradict anything a previous prophet said.

Shirley; you MUST be right; for I've had ZERO Mormons comment on whether they are truly damned or not - words from the mouth of #2 Living Prophet© himself - in the last few months.

43 posted on 12/11/2013 8:48:41 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Alex Murphy; Boogieman; StormPrepper; Normandy; teppe

It seems to me that either they can believe that their “living prophets” are infallible, or that they are just spouting “theories”. You can’t believe both and be consistent.
IIRC, the current wisdom is that only the words of the standing LDS prophet are binding. Once that prophet dies and another takes his place, the dead prophet’s words are no longer binding on Mormons. The new prophet is permitted to countermand if not outright contradict anything a previous prophet said.

Call it “Simon says”.

****

Those remarks made are not totally accurate doctrine does not change but times we live in does constantly change we no longer live in a horse & buggy age or what ever else is going on which different from the core of the doctrine which always remains the same.

But circumstances is always changing...

the blue prints to the minefields we are walking through are always changing and the LDS believe we have living prophet to guild us through these latter days.

So the council give at another time might not be the one need for the era we go going through.

Also the Lord’s children are always growing and new lessons are to be added on and learn.

Line upon line, precept upon percept here a little there a little.

Isaiah 28

9 ¶Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

13 But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

D&C 98

8 I, the Lord God, make you free, therefore ye are free indeed; and the law also maketh you free.

9 Nevertheless, when the wicked rule the people mourn.

10 Wherefore, honest men and wise men should be sought for diligently, and good men and wise men ye should observe to uphold; otherwise whatsoever is less than these cometh of evil.

11 And I give unto you a commandment, that ye shall forsake all evil and cleave unto all good, that ye shall live by every word which proceedeth forth out of the mouth of God.

12 For he will give unto the faithful line upon line, precept upon precept; and I will try you and prove you herewith.

13 And whoso layeth down his life in my cause, for my name’s sake, shall find it again, even life eternal.

14 Therefore, be not afraid of your enemies, for I have decreed in my heart, saith the Lord, that I will prove you in all things, whether you will abide in my covenant, even unto death, that you may be found worthy.

15 For if ye will not abide in my covenant ye are not worthy of me.


44 posted on 12/21/2013 6:51:04 AM PST by restornu (Love One Another)
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To: Alex Murphy; Boogieman; StormPrepper; Normandy; teppe

BTW I have covered this topic years ago

Blacks in the Scriptures Audio
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2211180/posts


45 posted on 12/21/2013 6:54:29 AM PST by restornu (Love One Another)
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To: restornu

History of Blacks and the Mormon Priesthood (by Darius Grey, co-founder of the Genesis Group)
http://www.mormonstories.org/blacksandtheldspriesthood/


46 posted on 12/21/2013 7:45:47 AM PST by restornu (Love One Another)
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