Race, Priesthood and Infallibility [Lds tries to explain away past doctrine as mere 'theories']

DovesandSerpents.org ^ | Dec. 9, 2013 | Brent

[Colofornian]

The church has put up a couple interesting...topic pages recently on LDS.org...

Today, the Church disavows the theories advanced in the past...

Funny, I don’t see the word “theory” used here:

...(2 Nephi 5:21).

...“theory” wasn’t used in this statement on the “negro question”:

The position of the Church regarding the Negro may be understood when another doctrine of the Church is kept in mind, namely, that the conduct of spirits in the premortal existence has some determining effect upon the conditions and circumstances under which these spirits take on mortality (Statement by the First Presidency, August 17, 1949).

Joseph Fielding Smith didn’t use it here:

There were no neutrals in the war in Heaven. All took sides either with Christ or with Satan...The Negro, evidently, is receiving the reward he merits (...Doctrines of Salvation).

Bruce...McConkie didn’t use...“theory” here:

Those...less valiant in pre-existence and...had certain spiritual restrictions impose on them during mortality are known to us as the negroes. Such spirits are sent to earth through the lineage of Cain, the mark put upon him for his rebellion against God, and his murder of Able being a black skin...the negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain spiritual blessings are concerned...(Mormon Doctrine, 1966...).

SNIP

This wasn’t a “cultural” issue. This wasn’t a case of church members making up unauthorized “theories” to explain a problematic policy. This was top-down, from-the-prophet-himself doctrine, and this doctrine is preserved (like an insect in amber) in the historical record. The notion that black skin was a divine curse and ...deserved their state...shows up in official statements from the first presidency...These ideas were preached as doctrine from the pulpit in church-wide conferences...were included in official publications and manuals. And...were perceived (and received) as doctrine by faithful members of the church...

[Colofornian]

Please read the blog in its entirety.

From the blog:
Today, the Church disavows the theories advanced in the past...
Funny, I don’t see the word “theory” used here:
...(2 Nephi 5:21).
...“theory” wasn’t used in this statement on the “negro question”: The position of the Church regarding the Negro may be understood when another doctrine of the Church is kept in mind, namely, that the conduct of spirits in the premortal existence has some determining effect upon the conditions and circumstances under which these spirits take on mortality (Statement by the First Presidency, August 17, 1949).
Joseph Fielding Smith didn’t use it here: There were no neutrals in the war in Heaven. All took sides either with Christ or with Satan...The Negro, evidently, is receiving the reward he merits (...Doctrines of Salvation).
Bruce...McConkie didn’t use...“theory” here: Those...less valiant in pre-existence and...had certain spiritual restrictions impose on them during mortality are known to us as the negroes. Such spirits are sent to earth through the lineage of Cain, the mark put upon him for his rebellion against God, and his murder of Able being a black skin...the negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain spiritual blessings are concerned...(Mormon Doctrine, 1966...).

So Brent provides four citations:
* 2 Nephi 5:21 -- from the Book of Mormon. And who, according to Joseph Smith in the Lds "scriptures" Doctrines & Covenants 24:1 wrote the Book of Mormon?

None other than Joseph Smith himself!
1 Behold, thou wast called and chosen to WRITE the Book of Mormon, and to my ministry;
D&C24:1

* He then cites a 1949 Mormon Church statement issued by the highest hierarchy in the Church: The Presidency. And that Presidential statement says its official "position of the Church regarding the negro..." is directly influenced by a "doctrine" of the pre-existent disfavor in pre-mortality being carried out in mortal life.

* Brent goes on to quote Joseph Fielding Smith, who later became the 10th "Prophet" of the Mormon Church;
* and Lds "apostle" Bruce McConkie, whose 1966 Mormon Doctrine book was revised after Lds "Prophet" David McKay had one of his counselors review the book and the other counselor (eventual "prophet" Spencer Kimball) mentor McConkie to ensure changes from the 1958 edition were made. It had the imprimatur of TWO Lds "prophets!"

And, after making this case, the blogger brings home an extremely valid point:

This wasn’t a “cultural” issue. This wasn’t a case of church members making up unauthorized “theories” to explain a problematic policy. This was top-down, from-the-prophet-himself doctrine, and this doctrine is preserved (like an insect in amber) in the historical record. The notion that black skin was a divine curse and ...deserved their state...shows up in official statements from the first presidency...These ideas were preached as doctrine from the pulpit in church-wide conferences...were included in official publications and manuals. And...were perceived (and received) as doctrine by faithful members of the church...

[Alex Murphy]

I wasn't aware that an official declaration and revelation announced by a prophet, recorded as scripture in one of their "four major works", could be considered a "theory":

To Whom It May Concern:

On September 30, 1978, at the 148th Semiannual General Conference of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the following was presented by President N. Eldon Tanner, First Counselor in the First Presidency of the Church:

In early June of this year, the First Presidency announced that a revelation had been received by President Spencer W. Kimball extending priesthood and temple blessings to all worthy male members of the Church. President Kimball has asked that I advise the conference that after he had received this revelation, which came to him after extended meditation and prayer in the sacred rooms of the holy temple, he presented it to his counselors, who accepted it and approved it. It was then presented to the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, who unanimously approved it, and was subsequently presented to all other General Authorities, who likewise approved it unanimously.

[Zakeet]

Theoretically, the LDS Church sometimes considers tithing important ...

[SkyDancer]

They’re always in denial.

[Colofornian]

I wasn't aware that an official declaration and revelation announced by a prophet, recorded as scripture in one of their "four major works", could be considered a "theory": ... In early June of this year, the First Presidency announced that a revelation had been received by President Spencer W. Kimball extending priesthood and temple blessings to all worthy male members of the Church.

Exactly.

I mean what? It took a 1978 "revelation" from the Mormon gods to trump previous "theories" held by the Mormon divinities?

What? These gods communicate wild immoral theories to their Salt Lake City -based mouthpiece?

[Colofornian]

Theoretically, the LDS Church sometimes considers tithing important ...

And...theoretically...

It might...

...on some planet...

...some day...

...result in ...

...A Utah-based, Lds-Church constructed, upscale mega-$ mall...
...Perhaps something like: LDS Church opens upscale mall...

...or could even...

...theoretically-speaking...

...lead to...

...The Mormon church...

...buying its SECOND percent of Florida land...

...something I envision it to be...

...perhaps...

...theoretically...

...something like...

...Mormon church-owned company buys huge swath of Florida land...

...Oh, why do we just go on day-dreaming 'bout such wild "theories?"

[Colofornian]

And this thread was posted this morning:
Race and the Priesthood [Lds Church attempts to explain its past racist prophets and policies]

[Utah Binger]

So proud to have Mormon neighbors. They are the nicest people in the world. Oh wait.

[svcw]

THX 1138

[Colofornian]

Teppe...if the Mormon church could focus on CHRISTmas — as much as they promote SMITHmas — they’d actually start moving away from blasphemous idolatry.

[teppe]

Alex,

It’s kind of like your Calvanists relying on the Athenasian Creed for centuries until they discovered it was a forgery in the late 18th Century.

Then the Calvanist response was to denounce the Creed as a forgery but at the same time to double down and maintain the forged Creeds teachings as your main definitionon of Christ.

So Forgery, or Not Forgery? Either accept it all, or discard it all!

So, in other words, maybe you should seek to understand your own religion before you turn hypocrite against others.

Christ didn’t like hypocrites, if you claim to be a Christian, maybe you shouldn’t be one.

[VerySadAmerican]

That’s good!

[Alex Murphy]

It’s kind of like your Calvanists relying on the Athenasian Creed for centuries until they discovered it was a forgery in the late 18th Century. Then the Calvanist response was to denounce the Creed as a forgery but at the same time to double down and maintain the forged Creeds teachings as your main definitionon of Christ. So Forgery, or Not Forgery? Either accept it all, or discard it all!

I have no idea who these Calvanists are that you speak of, or what this Athenasian Creed is, why these Calvanists would claim that it's a forgery, or how someone can be scripturally illiterate enough to trust any late comer's re-definition of holy scripture. Perhaps if you provided some substantiating details and references about this forgery thing, we might be able to have an intelligent conversation on the subject.

So, in other words, maybe you should seek to understand your own religion before you turn hypocrite against others. Christ didn’t like hypocrites, if you claim to be a Christian, maybe you shouldn’t be one.

Do you think Spencer Kimball's revelation, as recorded in Doctrine and Covenants, is holy scripture?

[Religion Moderator]

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

[Nifster]

Of course this creed really isn’t utilized in any church for many many years. The Nicene or the Apostle’s creeds are more typical.

But then with your erudition you already knew that right?

[Elsie]

Today, the Church disavows the theories advanced in the past...

Funny, I don’t see the word “theory” used here:

Of COURSE you don't!

You're a HATER who does not understand the deep secrets of GOD!

--MormonDude(Don't you realize that they can change meanings of words at will?)

[Elsie]

Ok; what did teppe say at #10?

[Elsie]

So, in other words, maybe you should seek to understand your own religion before you turn hypocrite against others.

Heck of an idea!!!

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Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).

Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).

 

 

 

Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).

 

 

 

Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).

 

 

 

Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses

, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).

 

 

President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).

 

 

 

James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).

 

 

 

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).

 

 

 

More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).

 

 

 

President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).

 

 

President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).