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Pope says he is not a "Marxist" and it is not time to start "clericalizing" women
Vatican Insider ^ | December 14, 2013 | ANDREA TORNIELLI

Posted on 12/15/2013 9:14:52 AM PST by NYer

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1 posted on 12/15/2013 9:14:52 AM PST by NYer
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To: Tax-chick; GregB; Berlin_Freeper; SumProVita; narses; bboop; SevenofNine; Ronaldus Magnus; tiki; ...

Ping!


2 posted on 12/15/2013 9:15:16 AM PST by NYer ("The wise man is the one who can save his soul. - St. Nimatullah Al-Hardini)
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To: NYer

It has repeatedly become clear...

1 either El Joffe has no real idea what Marxist economics are, or
2 the Vatican is absolutely lousy at communication.


3 posted on 12/15/2013 9:17:15 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (I grew up in America. I now live in the United States..)
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To: NYer

I believe him. But there are definitely Marxists with access to the Vatican word processors.


4 posted on 12/15/2013 9:19:28 AM PST by DManA
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To: NYer

Jesus is about the story of a man foretold. Why would we revise history and make him a woman. If people do not like the story, they can find their own story, and not make everything gay. And Catholic is catholic. Any other change, for better or for worth, from a plagiarized bastardized version of the Cathechism and its dispension is of another religion. Being priest is not being a government bureaucrat robot without gender.


5 posted on 12/15/2013 9:19:47 AM PST by lavaroise
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To: NYer

But…he insists he’s met many Marxists who are “good people.”

How does that work exactly? What is a good Marxist? WHO is a good Marxist? I think some names are in order here.


6 posted on 12/15/2013 9:20:44 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright (Tokyo Rove is more than a name, it's a GREAT WEBSITE)
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To: NYer
I've never understood why Leftists who aren't Catholics have such a problem with the Catholic Church not ordaining women as priests. Given that I'm not Catholic, the Pope could say that only left-handed Lithuanians could be priests for all I care. Since I'm not a member, why could it possibly matter to me?
7 posted on 12/15/2013 9:26:07 AM PST by Kip Russell (Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors -- and miss. ---Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: NYer
I wish I could say what I wanted to...

But I won't.

8 posted on 12/15/2013 9:27:25 AM PST by real saxophonist (The revolution will not be televised. Everything else will.)
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To: Kip Russell

Because leftists are by nature busy body control freaks……..in pursuit of their fantasized utopia…..


9 posted on 12/15/2013 9:27:31 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright (Tokyo Rove is more than a name, it's a GREAT WEBSITE)
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To: C. Edmund Wright
Because leftists are by nature busy body control freaks……..in pursuit of their fantasized utopia…..

“Political tags — such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth — are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. The former are idealists acting from highest motives for the greatest good of the greatest number. The latter are surly curmudgeons, suspicious and lacking in altruism. But they are more comfortable neighbors than the other sort.”

― Robert A. Heinlein

10 posted on 12/15/2013 9:28:21 AM PST by Kip Russell (Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors -- and miss. ---Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: Kip Russell
The former are idealists acting from highest motives for the greatest good of the greatest number.

So, do you really buy this notion of leftists? Really?

11 posted on 12/15/2013 9:30:12 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright (Tokyo Rove is more than a name, it's a GREAT WEBSITE)
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To: NYer

Bookmark!


12 posted on 12/15/2013 9:32:05 AM PST by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free)
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To: Kip Russell

Speaking as a Protestant who’s a layman in a denomination that ordains men only(PCA), the reason why leftists want the RCC(and any other religious entity) to ordain females is that they’re totalitarian “do-gooders” who are so “correct”, they have a “human right” in their mindset to enforce their views on everyone.

C.S. Lewis’ quote describes leftists to a T:

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”


13 posted on 12/15/2013 9:32:55 AM PST by ReformationFan
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To: NYer
Anti-Catholicism

Anti-Catholicism in the United States

How to confront anti-Catholicism

14 posted on 12/15/2013 9:44:33 AM PST by Berlin_Freeper (Obamacare - Get used to dying.)
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To: NYer

This should calm down the traditionists very fast.


15 posted on 12/15/2013 9:53:11 AM PST by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: C. Edmund Wright
What is a good Marxist?

I could answer your question, but my answer would get me banned.

16 posted on 12/15/2013 9:54:38 AM PST by Hardastarboard (The question of our age is whether a majority of Americans can and will vote us all into slavery.)
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To: miele man

later read


17 posted on 12/15/2013 9:55:01 AM PST by miele man
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To: C. Edmund Wright
So, do you really buy this notion of leftists? Really?

I believe you're mis-reading the quote. Heinlein is pointing out that people of any political stripe who wish to control others might well believe that they're doing good for society as a whole, but that the results are very uncomfortable when they start controlling you.

18 posted on 12/15/2013 9:59:38 AM PST by Kip Russell (Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors -- and miss. ---Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: Kip Russell
Heinlein is pointing out that people of any political stripe who wish to control others might well believe that they're doing good for society as a whole, but that the results are very uncomfortable when they start controlling you

But that's a false argument…..people of "any polticial stripe" do not wish to control others - that is almost, not totally, but almost confined only to the liberal statist. And I'm ready for your anticipated response too……but I stand by my point here….and I think Heinlein is wrong, even while being pithy.

19 posted on 12/15/2013 10:02:06 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright (Tokyo Rove is more than a name, it's a GREAT WEBSITE)
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To: NYer

Uh-oh another interview.

Can’t wait to read it all......


20 posted on 12/15/2013 10:06:49 AM PST by piusv
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To: NYer

21 posted on 12/15/2013 10:08:15 AM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: piusv
I didn't have to go far:

During the interview the Pope also speaks about relations with other Christian denominations and about the “ecumenism of blood” which unites them in persecution

Um, wut? Some more false ecumenism. Francis needs to read Mortalium Animos and Cantate Domino.

22 posted on 12/15/2013 10:10:16 AM PST by piusv
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To: NYer
This one fact should not escape anyone. The leftist media spends most of its time trying to find holes in which to dig and implant doubt into the minds of the faithful and unfaithful alike.

La Stampa and the American Lamestream Media probably have staff rooms set up into which they have daily meetings where they decide what sentence or phrasing used by the Pope they will exploit this week.

John Paul II always gave speeches during his Wednesday audiences that would be printed up and I would read by Friday. I read most of them throughout his papacy. So, I feel as though I was in an excellent position to know what he was really saying and how badly the media worked to pervert what he was saying.

They are doing the exact same thing right now with this Pope.

23 posted on 12/15/2013 10:15:45 AM PST by Slyfox (Satan's goal is to rub out the image of God he sees in the face of every human.)
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To: NYer

Well he says he isn’t a Capitalist...so then he’s socialist, Marxist or some other economical-whacko group. Too bad he can’t stick to being a Christian...you would think that would be enough for a Pope.


24 posted on 12/15/2013 10:19:57 AM PST by ThePatriotsFlag (...and to the Republic for which it stood.)
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To: Slyfox

Yes, it’s always the media.

Please just stop insulting many of us.


25 posted on 12/15/2013 10:20:11 AM PST by piusv
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To: NYer
Marxists in my life who are good people,

Were they already dead? The only 'good' Marxist.

26 posted on 12/15/2013 10:22:11 AM PST by xone
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To: NYer

Methinks he doth protest too much.


27 posted on 12/15/2013 10:34:07 AM PST by Flintlock ( islam is a LIE, mohammed was a CRIMINAL, shira is POISON.)
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To: C. Edmund Wright

Personally, as a traditional Catholic this doesn’t bother me as much as his apparent contradictions with Traditional Catholic teaching. I believe to answer your question though, a “good” Marxist to Francis is probably a person, who though not Catholic, follows his conscience. So all’s good.

YWIA.


28 posted on 12/15/2013 10:45:41 AM PST by piusv
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To: C. Edmund Wright; Kip Russell

A strong force of controlling others, I detect in you grasshopper.


29 posted on 12/15/2013 10:49:34 AM PST by Paladin2
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To: C. Edmund Wright
How does that work exactly? What is a good Marxist? WHO is a good Marxist? I think some names are in order here.

Groucho, Harpo, Zippo and Karl, {not in your request for order}.


30 posted on 12/15/2013 10:49:51 AM PST by USS Alaska (If I could...I would.)
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To: Paladin2

You need to adjust your detector, and your reading comp…..


31 posted on 12/15/2013 10:51:13 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright (Tokyo Rove is more than a name, it's a GREAT WEBSITE)
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To: C. Edmund Wright

Well, we’re always hearing what a nice guy Bob Beckel is.


32 posted on 12/15/2013 10:52:34 AM PST by Viennacon
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To: piusv
I believe to answer your question though, a “good” Marxist to Francis is probably a person, who though not Catholic, follows his conscience. So all’s good.

So let me get this straight…if a person's conscience leads him to believe in something immoral, unworkable, and evil like Marxism, it's okay as long as it was reached through his conscience? Sorry, I do not agree……that only indicates a flawed conscience….or perhaps a lack of understanding of what Marxism is and who Marxists are.

33 posted on 12/15/2013 10:53:53 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright (Tokyo Rove is more than a name, it's a GREAT WEBSITE)
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To: USS Alaska
Groucho, Harpo, Zippo and Karl,

Zeppo.

34 posted on 12/15/2013 10:54:44 AM PST by Kip Russell (Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors -- and miss. ---Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: Kip Russell

I’ve observed this as well. In a recent radio show I listened to, some British people who were clearly atheists were saying how they wanted the Anglican church to have women priests. It’s just the control-freak mentality.


35 posted on 12/15/2013 10:55:03 AM PST by Viennacon
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To: USS Alaska

Nicely played!!! :)


36 posted on 12/15/2013 10:55:31 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright (Tokyo Rove is more than a name, it's a GREAT WEBSITE)
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To: Viennacon
I’ve observed this as well. In a recent radio show I listened to, some British people who were clearly atheists were saying how they wanted the Anglican church to have women priests. It’s just the control-freak mentality.

Exactly. I'm an atheist myself, and I couldn't care less what doctrines the Catholic (or any other) Church has, as long as those doctrines don't intervene in the affairs of non-members.

37 posted on 12/15/2013 10:59:19 AM PST by Kip Russell (Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors -- and miss. ---Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: NYer

Bump.


38 posted on 12/15/2013 11:06:44 AM PST by GonzoII (Ted Cruz/Susana Martinez 2016)
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To: ThePatriotsFlag

Catholic church doctrine is to reject socialism and lassiez faire capitalism. The position has been called distributism, most famously by G.K. Chesterton (The Man Who Was Thursday, Father Brown stories) and Hilaire Belloc (The Servile State), and more recently by E.F. Schumacher (Small is Beautiful) and Kirkpatrick Sale (Human Scale).

Many conservatives would, I believe, see distributism as an authentic capitalist economic system.

I do not consider myself distributist, but I have been influenced by distributist thought.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributism


39 posted on 12/15/2013 11:10:37 AM PST by oblomov
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To: C. Edmund Wright

He knows “good Marxists”, so the label doesn’t bother him so much.

Wow.


40 posted on 12/15/2013 11:13:46 AM PST by WhistlingPastTheGraveyard (If you don't stand up, you don't stand a chance.)
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To: WhistlingPastTheGraveyard

That doesn’t do a lot to refute what Rush said, now does it…….


41 posted on 12/15/2013 11:16:59 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright (Tokyo Rove is more than a name, it's a GREAT WEBSITE)
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To: C. Edmund Wright

My little cousin describes herself as a Marxist. She is young, socially awkward, book-smart but very sheltered, naive and very little experience of the real world. Naturally, her political Outlook irritated me, but she is family and I love her. I put her down as ignorant rather than malevolent.


42 posted on 12/15/2013 11:18:03 AM PST by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: oblomov

Which does not excuse, nor explain, how one could be so misguided as to talk about capitalism as if laissez faire exists anywhere in the world……which is exactly what happened in context.


43 posted on 12/15/2013 11:18:21 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright (Tokyo Rove is more than a name, it's a GREAT WEBSITE)
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To: oblomov

And FTR, distributism is a phony theoretical but euphimisitc way of saying command and control…..and I do reject it out of hand.


44 posted on 12/15/2013 11:19:49 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright (Tokyo Rove is more than a name, it's a GREAT WEBSITE)
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan

Wth due respect, the Pope is not talking about 8 year old kids….and you know it.

context matters….


45 posted on 12/15/2013 11:20:44 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright (Tokyo Rove is more than a name, it's a GREAT WEBSITE)
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To: C. Edmund Wright

Oh, and she is Catholic. Funny enough, all that do-gooding and elevating the poor as morally superior to the rich does seem to predispose a lot of Catholics I know to believe in leftist bollocks for some reason...


46 posted on 12/15/2013 11:21:53 AM PST by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: C. Edmund Wright

She is 18 and has been like this since she was about 14.


47 posted on 12/15/2013 11:23:33 AM PST by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: C. Edmund Wright

Agreed. In my experience, the giveaway that someone is a Marxist (or Marxian, if you prefer) is that they refer to the status quo system (subsidies, bailouts, anti-competitive regs, licensing requirements, etc.) as laissez faire capitalism, sometimes using the terms “neo-liberalism” or “cultural capitalism”.


48 posted on 12/15/2013 11:24:50 AM PST by oblomov
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To: C. Edmund Wright
Something like one third of Italians voted for the Communist Party.

In some parts of the country a third still vote for the successor party, and at times the post-communist party has been in the governing coalition.

So I guess what the pope is trying to say is that somebody who just happened to vote for the party isn't necessarily totally evil.

I don't know how seriously to take Francis's comment. It may just be a "some of my best friends are _____" reflex that he's using to temper and take the edge off his remarks.

49 posted on 12/15/2013 11:27:23 AM PST by x
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To: Slyfox

This one fact should not escape anyone. The leftist media spends most of its time trying to find holes in which to dig and implant doubt into the minds of the faithful and unfaithful alike.

________________________________

Bingo!

...and their inspiration for this work comes from below.


50 posted on 12/15/2013 11:27:39 AM PST by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
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