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Catholic Sacraments - Explained without Protestant Bias
Youtube - posted by Jeremy Hochstein ^ | October 11, 2011 | Karlo Broussard

Posted on 12/16/2013 6:05:21 AM PST by vladimir998

Karlo Broussard does a very good job of explaining the sacraments without the distortions or misrepresentations of Protestants who never even walked the earth until more than 14 centuries after Christ established the sacraments.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: catholicism; catholics; christianity; protestantism; protestants; sacraments; theology
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Karlo Broussard is a young man from Crowley, Louisiana who gave up everything to embrace God’s call to be a Catholic Apologist. Broussard, “the Cajun musician turned Catholic apologist,” left a promising musical career in Southern Louisiana to devote himself to the full-time work of winning souls for Christ.

A cradle Catholic by birth, Broussard’s faith, like everyone, needed to be further nurtured through a personal relationship with Christ and by studying the Catholic Faith. Broussard’s amazing success in the Cajun country music scene proved to be a major distraction and even a source of serious temptation. Playing in honky-tonk bars, night clubs, and recording two successful music albums eventually led Broussard to a crossroads as he began to realize that his core Christian beliefs were not in accord with his musician lifestyle. The Holy Spirit eventually led him to acknowledge God’s truth and embrace his calling as a Catholic apologist.

He is the founder and president of the Divine Child Institute for Catechetical Renewal, Inc, which is an institute for adult catechesis based in Wenatchee, WA. He is a skilled apologist and adult catechist with experience in radio and television broadcasting, conference speaking, biblical seminars, audio publications and magazine articles. Karlo is a speaker on Catholic Answers speaker’s bureau and holds a Bachelor of Arts Degree in Theology from Catholic Distance University as well as a Master of Arts in Pastoral Theology with a concentration in catechesis and evangelization from the Augustine Institute in Denver, Colorado.

Broussard is one of the most dynamic and enthusiastic Catholic speakers on the circuit today. To compliment his zealous and energetic style, Broussard’s teachings are incredibly clear and concise, leaving audiences with an unbelievably deeper understanding of the mysteries of faith. Broussard’s talks are able to move one from the shaky ground of doubt and unbelief to the firm foundation of the immoveable Catholic truth.

You can visit his website at divinechildinstitute.com.

1 posted on 12/16/2013 6:05:21 AM PST by vladimir998
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To: vladimir998

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BHpHezhRO8


2 posted on 12/16/2013 6:05:40 AM PST by vladimir998
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To: vladimir998
"A cradle Catholic by birth..."

Is there any other kind?

3 posted on 12/16/2013 6:12:40 AM PST by Albion Wilde ("Remember... the first revolutionary was Satan."--Russian Orthodox Archpriest Dmitry Smirnov)
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To: vladimir998

“without Protestant Bias”

As opposed to anti-scripture bias.

It is one thing to render an opinion on things not clearly addressed by the Bible (and doing so based on consensus and solid historical records are certainly rational), but it is quite another to contradict the plain teachings of the Bible and deny that the Bible can be understood by its direct reading and thus render it moot based on a diabolically vehement desire to subordinate all followers of Christ to nonsensical superstitions and abominable rebellions to the commands of God.


4 posted on 12/16/2013 6:48:49 AM PST by unlearner (You will never come to know that which you do not know until you first know that you do not know it.)
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To: unlearner
… it is quite another to contradict the plain teachings of the Bible and deny that the Bible can be understood by its direct reading …

My direct reading of the Bibles shows that it supports Catholic teachings. The truth is that Protestants are just as bound to their own traditions and mediated interpretations of the Bible as any Catholic.

5 posted on 12/16/2013 7:08:22 AM PST by Petrosius
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To: vladimir998

bump to view later.


6 posted on 12/16/2013 7:11:30 AM PST by sneakers ( Quinn: "Liberty is the solution to the human condition.")
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To: Albion Wilde
"A cradle Catholic by birth..." Is there any other kind?

Wasn't born there but got there as quick as he could? Texas style.

7 posted on 12/16/2013 7:15:22 AM PST by showme_the_Glory (ILLEGAL: prohibited by law. ALIEN: Owing political allegiance to another country or government)
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To: vladimir998
Karlo Broussard does a very good job of explaining the sacraments without the distortions or misrepresentations of Protestants who never even walked the earth until more than 14 centuries after Christ established the sacraments.

How long has Karlo Broussard walked the earth?

8 posted on 12/16/2013 7:41:47 AM PST by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: Petrosius

Where does the Bible instruct making images of deceased saints, bowing to them, making offerings to these images, or praying toward them?


9 posted on 12/16/2013 7:48:22 AM PST by unlearner (You will never come to know that which you do not know until you first know that you do not know it.)
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To: unlearner

Not what the thread is about. Get a life.


10 posted on 12/16/2013 7:52:06 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Petrosius

So who’s right?

And why?


11 posted on 12/16/2013 7:56:30 AM PST by chesley
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To: Petrosius
>> My direct reading of the Bibles shows that it supports Catholic teachings.<<

Please show it’s support and teaching of the assumption of Mary.

12 posted on 12/16/2013 8:05:55 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: CynicalBear

Off topic bear.

Dogma and Sacrament are different words. This thread concerns the Biblical support for the seven Sacraments of the Catholic Church. Do try and stay on topic, OK dearie?


13 posted on 12/16/2013 8:15:58 AM PST by narses (... unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.)
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To: narses

The “topic” was the post I responded to.


14 posted on 12/16/2013 8:17:27 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: CynicalBear

It’s not about Mary. It’s about the sacraments. Can you read?


15 posted on 12/16/2013 8:25:03 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
>> It’s not about Mary. It’s about the sacraments. Can you read?

Do not “Catholic teachings” include dogma? The poster I was responding to made this claim. “My direct reading of the Bibles shows that it supports Catholic teachings.” “Catholic teachings” include ALL of Catholic teachings. Does not the Catholic Church “teach” about the assumption of Mary? I can read quite well and asked a question in direct response to a statement made. No assumption involved.

16 posted on 12/16/2013 8:52:28 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: unlearner

The Bible is not easy to understand and that’s why we have the Cathecism of the Catholic Church.

No one can figure out the teachings in the Bible by themselves.

Even good ole boy Jimmy Swaggart has his own study Bible.

http://www.valorebooks.com/textbooks/expositors-study-bible-giant-print-edition/9780976953036#utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=PriceGrabberFTP&utm_source=PriceGrabberFTP


17 posted on 12/16/2013 9:21:33 AM PST by NKP_Vet ("God never tires of forgiving us, we are the ones who tire of seeking his mercy" - Pope Francis)
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To: Alex Murphy

Not long, but the faith he holds is almost 2,000 years old.


18 posted on 12/16/2013 9:48:11 AM PST by vladimir998
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To: unlearner

When your salvation is based on a points system, how can you ever know when you have enough? You can never be assured of your salvation, and God speaks (through the Bible) multiple times that you CAN be assured.


19 posted on 12/16/2013 9:48:30 AM PST by Old Yeller
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To: vladimir998
Not long, but the faith he holds is almost 2,000 years old.

Satan's greatest work of deception.
20 posted on 12/16/2013 9:49:31 AM PST by Old Yeller
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To: unlearner
Where does the Bible instruct making images of deceased saints, bowing to them, making offerings to these images, or praying toward them?

Nice attempt at redirection but your post was about "plain teachings of the Bible" that "can be understood by its direct reading", not about teachings or practices beyond the Bible.

EUCHARIST:

Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever.”
(John 6:53-58)

While they were eating, Jesus took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and giving it to his disciples said, “Take and eat; this is my body.” Then he took a cup, gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you, l for this is my blood of the covenant, which will be shed on behalf of many for the forgiveness of sins.
(Matthew 26:26-28)

CONFIRMATION:
Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent them Peter and John, who went down and prayed for them, that they might receive the holy Spirit, for it had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them and they received the holy Spirit.
(Acts 8:14-17)

Paul then said, “John baptized with a baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, in Jesus.” When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul laid [his] hands on them, the holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.
(Acts 19:4-6)

CONFESSION:
[Jesus] said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them,m “Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.”
(John 20:21-23)
ANOINTING OF THE SICK:
Is anyone among you sick* He should summon the presbyters of the church, and they should pray over him and anoint [him] with oil in the name of the Lord, and the prayer of faith will save the sick person, and the Lord will raise him up. If he has committed any sins, he will be forgiven.
(James 5:14-15)
HOLY ORDERS:
This saying is trustworthy:* whoever aspires to the office of bishop desires a noble task. Therefore, a bishop must be irreproachable, married only once, temperate, self-controlled, decent, hospitable, able to teach, not a drunkard, not aggressive, but gentle, not contentious, not a lover of money. Similarly, deacons must be dignified, not deceitful, not addicted to drink, not greedy for sordid gain, holding fast to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience.
(1 Timothy 3:1-3, 8-9)

Do not neglect the gift you have, which was conferred on you through the prophetic word with the imposition of hands of the presbyterate.
(1 Timothy 4:14)

You can use what ever mental gymnastics you want to deny the clear meaning of these passages but the truth of Catholic teachings in them is evident. It is only by bring a preconceived Protestant bias to them that these truths be denied.
21 posted on 12/16/2013 11:20:57 AM PST by Petrosius
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To: Old Yeller

Agreed.


22 posted on 12/16/2013 11:33:36 AM PST by unlearner (You will never come to know that which you do not know until you first know that you do not know it.)
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To: NKP_Vet

“The Bible is not easy to understand and that’s why we have the Cathecism of the Catholic Church. No one can figure out the teachings in the Bible by themselves.”

You greatly err because you do not know what the Bible says.

Matthew 16:17
Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.”

John 16:13
However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.

1 Corinthians 2:10-16
But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

1 John 2:27
But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.

We see from the account of Peter that his understanding of the things of God were revealed to him by God. We understand further from the teachings of Christ, Paul and John that it is the Holy Spirit that gives us understanding of the scriptures rather than man or our own natural abilities (even though they are from God as well).

Human teaching and writing can give believers and unbelievers a natural comprehension of language, history, context, etc. about the scriptures. But only the Spirit of God reveals the spiritual truths of the scriptures. Neither the catechism nor any clergymen can take the place of the Holy Spirit.


23 posted on 12/16/2013 11:54:46 AM PST by unlearner (You will never come to know that which you do not know until you first know that you do not know it.)
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To: Salvation

The title of the thread speaks of “Protestant bias”.

My experience on this forum is that all of the debate over Catholic teaching ultimately comes down to the claim that the so-called Catholic Church is a higher authority than scripture.

There are a number of Catholics here that love to post their offensive idolatry and criticisms of Protestant doctrines and their false gospel which the God calls accursed and then take offense when they are called on it.

If you don’t want to be reproved then quit repeating the same errors.


24 posted on 12/16/2013 11:59:00 AM PST by unlearner (You will never come to know that which you do not know until you first know that you do not know it.)
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To: unlearner

My soul magnifies the Lord,
And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.
For He has regarded the low estate of His handmaiden,
For behold, henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
For He who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is His name. And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation.
He has shown strength with His arm:
He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
He has put down the mighty from their thrones,
and exalted those of low degree.
He has filled the hungry with good things;
and the rich He has sent empty away.
He has helped His servant Israel, in remembrance of His mercy;
As He spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to His posterity forever.

Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit.
As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen

Magníficat ánima mea Dóminum,
et exsultávit spíritus meus
in Deo salvatóre meo,
quia respéxit humilitátem
ancíllæ suæ.

Ecce enim ex hoc beátam
me dicent omnes generatiónes,
quia fecit mihi magna,
qui potens est,
et sanctum nomen eius,
et misericórdia eius in progénies
et progénies timéntibus eum.
Fecit poténtiam in bráchio suo,
dispérsit supérbos mente cordis sui;
depósuit poténtes de sede
et exaltávit húmiles.
Esuriéntes implévit bonis
et dívites dimísit inánes.
Suscépit Ísrael púerum suum,
recordátus misericórdiæ,
sicut locútus est ad patres nostros,
Ábraham et sémini eius in sæcula.

Glória Patri et Fílio
et Spirítui Sancto.
Sicut erat in princípio,
et nunc et semper,
et in sæcula sæculórum.

Amen.

She became the Mother of God, in which work so many and such great good things are bestowed on her as pass man’s understanding. For on this there follows all honor, all blessedness, and her unique place in the whole of mankind, among which she has no equal, namely, that she had a child by the Father in heaven, and such a Child . . . Hence men have crowded all her glory into a single word, calling her the Mother of God . . . None can say of her nor announce to her greater things, even though he had as many tongues as the earth possesses flowers and blades of grass: the sky, stars; and the sea, grains of sand. It needs to be pondered in the heart what it means to be the Mother of God.

(Commentary on the Magnificat, 1521; in Luther’s Works, Pelikan et al, vol. 21, 326)


25 posted on 12/16/2013 12:04:51 PM PST by narses (... unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.)
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To: unlearner

26 posted on 12/16/2013 12:08:19 PM PST by narses (... unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.)
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To: CynicalBear

27 posted on 12/16/2013 12:08:53 PM PST by narses (... unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.)
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To: Petrosius

“Nice attempt at redirection”

I think you must mean misdirection as redirection is something a lawyer does when the cross examination of his witness goes poorly or something a web browser does when the page being sought no longer exists. But I was not redirecting, misdirecting or even just changing the subject. My point is the crux of the matter.

We can go on endlessly debating the meaning of these passages and will get nowhere primarily because you apparently regard the entity that identifies itself as the Catholic church, or more particularly the clergy of this entity, as a higher authority than the Bible. You attribute apostolic authority to these men who are in no way qualified by the Biblical requirements and tests of apostleship. You are unwilling to test their apostolic claim and oppose others who seek to follow the Biblical mandate that goes along with such claims.

The authority of Paul, Peter, John and all of the apostles is available for me directly by opening my Bible. These men passed the tests of apostleship and most Protestants fully accept their authority.

I am well aware of high-ranking Catholic clergymen who practice and advocate immorality that Paul said must be put out of the Church, but you are among those who insist that followers of Christ must subject themselves to these men, to make auricular confessions to them, and to seek their counsel and instruction to understand scripture. These men are not, nor ever were true followers of Jesus, let alone people who should be assuming leadership in the Church.

Like the Pharisees of Christ’s earthly advent, these men are not content to go to hell alone; they constantly lead others to follow them there. The message Christ gave to these men is plain and fearful: “Woe to you.”

Christ described them as stubbornly resisting the kingdom of God and of trying to prevent anyone else from entering as well. How could a godly entity attack a man like William Tyndale for trying to bring the Bible to the masses; kidnap, imprison, torture, strangle and burn him at the stake? Where is your so-called sacrament of CONFESSION for this atrocity? Has the Catholic church confessed and repented of this wickedness? I think not. Doing so would upset the fragile (and false) doctrine of apostolic succession.

Do you expect me to accept Pope Paul III as a legitimate holder of the same position you say Peter held in the Church? A man who had affairs and illegitimate children by them? A man who consented to the torture and martyrdom of William Tyndale whose dying prayer was answered by God in giving to the masses the Authorized Version of the Holy Bible?


28 posted on 12/16/2013 1:00:44 PM PST by unlearner (You will never come to know that which you do not know until you first know that you do not know it.)
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To: narses

As imperfect as Luther may have been, I cannot for the life of me imagine anyone who thinks the contemporary pope, Pope Paul III, represented Christ on earth.

At least you just want to mock and ridicule. Pope Paul III consented to William Tyndale’s kidnapping, imprisonment, and murder because he dared to try to give the masses the scriptures in their own language. Pope Paul III was also an adulterer who should have been disqualified for the lowest of offices in the church.

You prefer that I accept that this pope represented Christ?


29 posted on 12/16/2013 1:07:26 PM PST by unlearner (You will never come to know that which you do not know until you first know that you do not know it.)
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To: unlearner
We can go on endlessly debating the meaning of these passages and will get nowhere primarily because you apparently regard the entity that identifies itself as the Catholic church, or more particularly the clergy of this entity, as a higher authority than the Bible.

Rather it is you who regard Protestant ideology as a higher authority than the Bible. The passages I have given show, without any appeal to Catholic authority, a clear Catholic understanding of the sacraments. By their plain meaning the biblical teaching given in these passages is Catholic.

30 posted on 12/16/2013 1:10:16 PM PST by Petrosius
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To: narses

A lot of Catholics here seem to be far more take up with Mary than the Son of God who created her and also came to die for her sins as well as ours.


31 posted on 12/16/2013 1:18:46 PM PST by unlearner (You will never come to know that which you do not know until you first know that you do not know it.)
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To: unlearner

So you’re calling Jimmy Swaggart a liar and con-man? LOL.


32 posted on 12/16/2013 1:49:44 PM PST by NKP_Vet ("God never tires of forgiving us, we are the ones who tire of seeking his mercy" - Pope Francis)
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To: Petrosius

Answering every heretical teaching and practice of the Catholic religion would take the hours of several full time jobs. That is just based on what I am currently aware of, not even attempting to explore any in depth. The scriptures you listed have nothing to do with the so-called sacraments (as practiced in the Catholic religion) you correlate with them.

EUCHARIST
The Lord’s supper is a time for believers to remember Christ’s death, renew their commitment to the New Covenant, and to discern the body of Christ. See 1 Corinthians 10-11. Christ had a natural, but incorruptible, human body which experienced death on the cross. He also has transformed His true Church into His spiritual body by means of the personal indwelling of the Holy Spirit in all who believe the gospel. Because you incorrectly attribute to the “Catholic church” the essence of this spiritual body, you do not correctly discern it nor truly ever practice the biblical command of partaking of the Lord’s supper. To do so would require you to first believe the true gospel and receive the Spirit of God in order to become a member of Christ’s spiritual body. The bread and cup do not become Christ’s natural body but His spiritual body.

John 6:63 [from the passage you cited about eating and drinking Christ’s flesh and blood]
It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

CONFIRMATION
The Holy Spirit fell in Acts to several distinct groups of people confirming that the gospel of the apostles was the true message of God. It is the Holy Spirit who confirms the believers, not the church nor even the apostles themselves. Yet the Apostles did have power to bestow the Holy Spirit which is something wicked Simon the sorcerer coveted and the Catholic religion falsely holds to possess. You ignored my question about apostolic succession. Was Pope Paul III a legitimate example of this doctrine? Do you expect me to accept that he represented Christ on earth and not William Tyndale who is primarily responsible for me being able to read scripture for myself?

CONFESSION
When people confessed their sins to the apostles and others who preached the gospel and were baptized; they did so publicly, they did not elaborate and describe their sins, they named them using the names that the Bible ascribes to those sins, and believers were encouraged to make confessions to “one another” and pray “one another” rather than to a clergyman in private. Again, was Pope Paul III, an unrepentant adulterer and murderer, heir to this apostolic authority?

ANOINTING OF THE SICK
Representatives of the church, typically elders (or bishops as some call them), were instructed to anoint the sick with oil. This is still practiced today.

HOLY ORDERS
There are leaders in the church appointed by God. Whether these are accountable to Rome is the subject of debate. Whether the leaders in Rome qualify to represent Christ is also subject to debate. Again, do you think William Tyndale should have recanted his pursuit of translating scripture into the common language against the wishes of Rome? Should he have submitted to Pope Paul III and avoided his deserved punishments of imprisonment and execution? Is that what you want me to believe?


33 posted on 12/16/2013 2:07:30 PM PST by unlearner (You will never come to know that which you do not know until you first know that you do not know it.)
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To: unlearner

Everything that you have posted is nothing more than your private interpretation of Scripture, most of which is contrary to the “plain teachings of the Bible” that I and my fellow Catholics understand it “by its direct reading”. To give your opinion any more authority is to place it, and yourself, over the authority of the Bible.


34 posted on 12/16/2013 2:16:30 PM PST by Petrosius
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To: NKP_Vet

You are the one who brought up Jimmy Swaggart. Here is a man who got caught in adultery. A lot of people rejected his ministry after that. My opinion is that anyone who does something like this in the ministry should leave and never be allowed to have any leadership. But since I never followed him or had anything to do with his ministry, it is not something I feel particularly exercised to address.

But Pope Paul III not only committed adultery and fathered illegitimate children, he opposed men like William Tyndale even to the point of having them arrested, imprisoned and killed because Tyndale wanted to help the common people have access to the Bible in their own language. So tell me if Pope Paul III represents the true authority of the Catholic church. Do you assert that Pope Paul III was the “vicar of Christ” on earth?


35 posted on 12/16/2013 2:19:03 PM PST by unlearner (You will never come to know that which you do not know until you first know that you do not know it.)
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To: Petrosius

“I and my fellow Catholics understand it ‘by its direct reading’.”

Really? Some Catholics are saying on this very thread that it is too hard to understand directly. Maybe you should straighten them out on this topic. Meanwhile, back in reality, most priests in the Catholic church and the nuns rarely study the Bible and hardly know it at all. The Catholic church has a long history of attacking people who tried to promote the reading of scripture.

Do you practice CONFESSION? Then confess whether Pope Paul III was a man of God or whether he was a murderer and adulterer. Daniel in the Bible confessed his sins and the sin of his people. Is Pope Paul III your people? Or do you deny him?

If I had someone in my family tree that was a murderer, I would denounce him and acknowledge his action to be evil. You on the other hand prefer to ignore your religion’s darker history.

If the highest leader of my church had someone tortured and murdered for trying to spread the scriptures I would not just leave and denounce him, I would never try to convince those blessed by the person who had been tortured and murdered that they should subject themselves to the authority, the religion, and the doctrines of the murderer.

I can trace my beliefs to men like William Tyndale. You can trace yours to men like Pope Paul III. Tyndale regarded the authority of scripture and loved God’s word. He exemplified in his day the same spirit and conduct of the apostles and martyrs like Stephen. Pope Paul III demonstrated the evil of corrupt religion and was no different than the religious leaders of Christ’s day who wanted to kill Him because He was a threat to their position as religious leaders.

Who knows if at some point God might reach your stubborn, hardened heart just as he did Paul before he turned from his persecution of believers; but right now that is the path you are on. All I can say is you have been warned.


36 posted on 12/16/2013 2:45:55 PM PST by unlearner (You will never come to know that which you do not know until you first know that you do not know it.)
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To: vladimir998

Most humans want to have the freedom, to be right or wrong.
Some people in this world don’t want us to have that freedom, such as
Liberals, Democrats, dictators, and popes.
Few victims of the popes:
Waldensians.
Cathars.
John Wycliff/Lollards.
Jan Hus/Hussites.
....just to name a few million
Has anyone heard of any aplogies from “the spokesman for Christ”
so called?
Boniface VIII was the norm.
Unam Sanctum B.S.
How could anybody be a Roman Catholic knowing history?
By being born into it from the cradle.
Beware of wolves in shepherds clothing.

The Word of God is the only rule for faith and practice.


37 posted on 12/16/2013 2:56:09 PM PST by Doulos1 (Bitter Clinger Forever!)
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To: unlearner
Meanwhile, back in reality, most priests in the Catholic church and the nuns rarely study the Bible and hardly know it at all.

You should really limit yourself to topics of which you are knowledgeable. All priests have studied the Scriptures for four years at the graduate level in the seminary. Many go on to advanced degrees.

The Catholic church has a long history of attacking people who tried to promote the reading of scripture.

I was under the impression that "thou shalt not bear false witness" was included in the Protestant Ten Commandments. It is time to put this lie to rest. The fact is that the Catholic Church encourages the faithful to read the Bible by granting an indulgence (let us not get sidetrack on the question of indulgences) for doing so.

I can trace my beliefs to men like William Tyndale.

And there you have it. You do not trace your beliefs directly to the Bible but to how Tyndale and other Protestants have interpreted it for you.

It is interesting how you constantly try to change the subject rather than address the fact that you do not, in deed, follow the plain teaching of the Bible when it comes in conflict with your Protestant ideology.

38 posted on 12/16/2013 3:05:19 PM PST by Petrosius
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To: CynicalBear
Please show it’s support and teaching of the assumption of Mary.

Revelation 12

39 posted on 12/16/2013 3:51:02 PM PST by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: Old Yeller
When your salvation is based on a points system, how can you ever know when you have enough?

Whose mind are you trying to read here? I don't know any Catholics who are knowledgeable about their faith who think their salvation is "based on a points system". Not a single one.

40 posted on 12/16/2013 3:52:06 PM PST by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: Petrosius

“All priests have studied the Scriptures for four years at the graduate level in the seminary.”

It does not show at all.

“It is time to put this lie to rest. The fact is that the Catholic Church encourages the faithful to read the Bible”

Go ahead and call me a liar. I take it as a complement when it comes from a person of your persuasion. Christ’s opponents called Him a lunatic and demon possessed. So calling me names is not really going to make me feel bad.

It is not a lie that the Catholic church HAS A LONG HISTORY as I said earlier of opposing the spread of scriptures.

You conveniently twist what I said and then call your own version of my comments a lie.

“You do not trace your beliefs directly to the Bible but to how Tyndale and other Protestants have interpreted it for you.”

That’s the thing, Tyndale did ACTUALLY translate it. Obviously you think this was a wicked thing for him to do since you refuse to denounce those who murdered him. In so doing you show plainly that you consent to their deeds.

“It is interesting how you constantly try to change the subject rather than address the fact that you do not, in deed, follow the plain teaching of the Bible when it comes in conflict with your Protestant ideology.”

I really have no idea what you are referring to. Protestants don’t have a catechism. I never studied a “Protestant ideology”. I only studied the Bible. I did not study the teachings of William Tyndale either. I just know from history if it was not for men like him I would not have the freedom to own a Bible and read it for myself.

My point with Tyndale is not that his interpretation is better than someone else’s. The Bible does not need an interpreter when it is correctly translated into a language the reader understands. It is a living book, the book that reads you. The whole idea of “private interpretation” that Peter warns of is EXACTLY what Catholics do when they claim to have the exclusive ability to interpret it. No, God has revealed His word openly rather than in private.

Deuteronomy 30:11-14
For this commandment which I command you today is not too mysterious for you, nor is it far off. It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will ascend into heaven for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may do it.

Paul says in Romans 10:8 that this is the word of faith which the apostles were preaching.

He also taught that if someone spoke in tongues in a church meeting that there needed to be an interpreter so that everyone would understand and benefit, but if someone prophesied there did not need to be an interpreter because the message is plain. (See 1 Corinthians 14.)

The Bible was written in a different language (i.e. tongue) and had to be interpreted (i.e. translated) into my language for me to understand it for myself. This is not a “private interpretation” because scripture never came by the means of a “private interpretation”.

But you and the Catholic religion twist Peter’s words to mean the opposite of what he said. The Gnostics believed they had private interpretation. They claimed to have secret knowledge that could only be learned through them. There are a number of groups claiming to be Christian today who hold this same doctrine that they are the exclusive keepers of truth rather than God having made it publicly proclaimed for all to hear. Among those groups who hold this false doctrine, the Catholic religion is the largest.

Tyndale insured that people like me would not need to rely on the private interpretation of the Catholic religion but would be able to read the Bible for myself. It is no longer in a foreign tongue but has been publicly interpreted and translated into a language I can read and understand because it speaks for itself.


41 posted on 12/16/2013 3:57:30 PM PST by unlearner (You will never come to know that which you do not know until you first know that you do not know it.)
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To: Campion

The woman in Revelation 12 is Israel.


42 posted on 12/16/2013 4:03:05 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: unlearner

There have been good pope and bad popes. They are human.


43 posted on 12/16/2013 4:36:18 PM PST by NKP_Vet ("God never tires of forgiving us, we are the ones who tire of seeking his mercy" - Pope Francis)
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To: Petrosius
You should really limit yourself to topics of which you are knowledgeable. All priests have studied the Scriptures for four years at the graduate level in the seminary. Many go on to advanced degrees.

I'd say that applies to you, and more so...

Go to Seminary or Complete Graduate Work
Aspiring Catholic priests may attend a seminary before ordination. Some churches, like the Roman Catholic Church, may require candidates to go to seminary for four years. A seminary program offers graduate-level coursework in subjects like Biblical studies, liturgy, ethics, pastoral studies, church history and preaching. Aspiring priests may obtain a Master of Divinity or another related degree. Other churches may not strictly require their priests to receive training at a seminary. Future priests may be required to earn a graduate degree in any field, though some churches prefer candidates with a degree related to theology or religious studies.

There is very little actual bible study for priests...The education is mostly human philosophy... The rest is Catholic church history, theology, ritual, apologetics...Very little actual bible study...

And there you have it. You do not trace your beliefs directly to the Bible but to how Tyndale and other Protestants have interpreted it for you.

Apparently you don't know much about that either...Tyndale was not an interpreter...Tyndale was a translator...A translator who put the bible in language of the native people, Protestant and Catholic alike...

44 posted on 12/16/2013 4:53:56 PM PST by Iscool
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To: Campion
Please show it’s support and teaching of the assumption of Mary.

Revelation 12

You couldn't find the mother of Jesus in Revelation 12 if you used the Hubbell Telescope...

45 posted on 12/16/2013 4:55:52 PM PST by Iscool
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To: unlearner
It is not a lie that the Catholic church HAS A LONG HISTORY as I said earlier of opposing the spread of scriptures.

While comforting to Protestants it is completely untrue. In fact, contrary to the mythology of Protestantism, there were multiple vernacular translations of the Bible before Luther and Tyndale. In German there were 18 editions of the complete Bible, 90 editions of the Gospels and the readings for Sundays and Holy Days, and 14 editions of the Psalter before Luther. English was admittedly not so lucky but there were partial translations. The fact is that before the invention of the printing press in the 15th century Bibles were so expensive that few could afford one and those who could were able to read it in Latin. English Catholics produced their own translation in 1582(NT)/1609(OT) which all Catholics were free to read.

That’s the thing, Tyndale did ACTUALLY translate it. Obviously you think this was a wicked thing for him to do since you refuse to denounce those who murdered him. In so doing you show plainly that you consent to their deeds.

As did many other before him. Let us have some honesty here. Tyndale was not condemned for translating the Bible but for mistranslating it. It should be noted that Tyndale's translation was so notorious that even King Henry VIII, after his break with Rome, ordered all copies to be burned. Nor was he condemned by Pope Paul III but by the secular court of Emperor Charles V. But if we are to reject a religion for the burning of heretics will you also condemn Calvin for the burning of Servetus and reject his spiritual heirs?

Protestants don’t have a catechism.

Learn some history:


Luther's Catechism
Of course I could also list innumerable commentaries from which Protestants get their understanding of the Bible.

I never studied a “Protestant ideology”. I only studied the Bible.

Do you want me to believe that you never read a word of Protestant commentary on the Bible or heard a Protestant sermon? If so you would be unique.

46 posted on 12/16/2013 5:13:43 PM PST by Petrosius
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To: Iscool
Go to Seminary or Complete Graduate Work

I do have a Masters degree. What is your training? There is very little actual bible study for priests...The education is mostly human philosophy... The rest is Catholic church history, theology, ritual, apologetics...Very little actual bible study..

The study of Scripture is one of the subjects that is indeed one of the subjects that is taught in the seminary and is covered each of the four years. Many priest graduate with a Masters degree in Scripture in addition to their M.Div. Put away your Protestant ignorance.

Apparently you don't know much about that either...Tyndale was not an interpreter...Tyndale was a translator...A translator who put the bible in language of the native people, Protestant and Catholic alike...

More of a mistranslator. His translation was deliberately polemical. He also introduced commentary within his translation promoting Protestant beliefs. Even the Protestant King Henry VIII ordered all copies of his translation to be burned. Nor was he the first to offer a vernacular translation. There were many such translations in various languages before either Tyndale or Luther.

47 posted on 12/16/2013 5:24:09 PM PST by Petrosius
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Comment #48 Removed by Moderator

To: Iscool

49 posted on 12/16/2013 9:14:48 PM PST by narses (... unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.)
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To: Old Yeller

“Satan’s greatest work of deception.”

No, there’s no deception in the founding of the Catholic Church more than 1900 years ago. Satan’s greatest deceptions are in fooling people into believing he doesn’t exist and in the spread of heresies and schisms like Protestantism.


50 posted on 12/16/2013 9:51:20 PM PST by vladimir998
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