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BOMBSHELL! POPE HOLDS UP AS A MODEL CURIALISTS OF PRE-VCII CHURCH AND HOW THEY FUNCTIONED!
Southern Orders ^ | December 20, 2013 | Fr. Allan J. McDonald

Posted on 12/21/2013 1:55:01 PM PST by NYer

(Vatican Radio) Pope Francis issued his Christmas greetings to the Roman Curia on Saturday. In his message, the Pope expressed the three hallmarks of a Curial official: professionalism, service and holiness of life. He urged the Curia to be "conscientious objectors to gossip" and expressed his gratitude for the dedicated service of the retiring members of the Curia.

Read his full message below:

Your Eminences,
Dear Brother Bishops and Priests,
Dear Brothers and Sisters,

Once again the Lord has enabled us to journey through Advent, and all too quickly we have come to these final days before Christmas. They are days marked by a unique spiritual climate made up of emotions, memories and signs, both liturgical and otherwise, such as the crèche. It is in this climate that this traditional meeting takes place with you, the superiors and officials of the Roman Curia, who cooperate daily in the service of the Church. I greet all of you with affection. Allow me to extend a special greeting to Archbishop Pietro Parolin, who recently began his service as Secretary of State, and who needs our prayers!

While our hearts are full of gratitude to God, who so loved us that he gave us his only-begotten Son, it is also good to make room for gratitude to one another. In this, my first Christmas as the Bishop of Rome, I also feel the need to offer sincere thanks to all of you as a community of service, and to each of you individually. I thank you for the work which you do each day: for the care, diligence and creativity which you display; and for your effort – I know it is not always easy – to work together in the office, both to listen to and to challenge one another, and to bring out the best in all your different personalities and gifts, in a spirit of mutual respect.

In a particular way, I want to express my gratitude to those now concluding their service and approaching retirement. As priests and bishops, we know full well that we never really retire, but we do leave the office, and rightly so, not least to devote ourselves more fully to prayer and the care of souls, starting with our own! So a very special and heartfelt “thank you” goes to those of you who have worked here for so many years with immense dedication, hidden from the eyes of the world. This is something truly admirable. I have such high regard for these “Monsignori” who are cut from the same mould as the curiales of olden times, exemplary persons. We need them today, too! People who work with competence, precision and self-sacrifice in the fulfilment of their daily duties. Here I would like to mention some of them by name, as a way of expressing my esteem and my gratitude, but we know that, in any list, the first names people notice are the ones that are missing! Besides, I would also risk overlooking someone and thus committing an injustice and a lack of charity. But I want to say to these brothers of ours that they offer a very important witness in the Church’s journey through history.
This mould and this witness make me think of two hallmarks of the curial official, and even more of curial superiors, which I would like to emphasize: professionalism and service.

Professionalism, by which I mean competence, study, keeping abreast of things. This is a basic requisite for working in the Curia. Naturally, professionalism is something which develops and is in part acquired; but I think that, precisely for it to develop and to be acquired, there has to be a good foundation from the outset.

The second hallmark is service: service to the Pope and to the bishops, to the universal Church and to the particular Churches. In the Roman Curia, one learns – in a real way, “one breathes in” – this twofold aspect of the Church, this interplay of the universal and the particular. I think that this is one of the finest experiences of those who live and work in Rome: “to sense” the Church in this way. When professionalism is lacking, there is a slow drift downwards towards mediocrity.

Dossiers become full of trite and lifeless information and incapable of opening up lofty perspectives. Then, too, when the attitude is no longer one of service to the particular Churches and their bishops, the structure of the Curia turns into a ponderous, bureaucratic customs house, constantly inspecting and questioning, hindering the working of the Holy Spirit and the growth of God’s people.

To these two qualities of professionalism and service, I would also like to add a third, which is holiness of life. We know very well that, in the hierarchy of values, this is the most important.
Indeed, it is basic for the quality of our work, our service. And I want to say here that in the Roman Curia, there have been and there are saints; I have said this in public more than once, to thank the Lord. Holiness means a life immersed in the Spirit, a heart open to God, constant prayer, deep humility and fraternal charity in our relationships with our fellow workers. It also means apostleship, discreet and faithful pastoral service, zealously carried out in direct contact with God’s people. For priests, this is indispensable.

Holiness in the Curia also means conscientious objection to gossip! We rightfully insist on the importance of conscientious objection but perhaps we, too, need to exercise it as a means of defending ourselves from an unwritten law of our surroundings, which unfortunately is that of gossip. So let us all be conscientious objectors; and mind you, I am not simply preaching! Gossip is harmful to people, our work and our surroundings.

Dear brothers and sisters, let us feel close to one another on this final stretch of the road to Bethlehem. We would do well to meditate on Saint Joseph, who was so silent yet so necessary at the side of Our Lady. Let us think about him and his loving concern for his Spouse and for the Baby Jesus. This can tell us a lot about our own service to the Church! So let us experience this Christmas in spiritual closeness to Saint Joseph.

I thank you most heartily for your work and especially for your prayers. Truly I feel “borne aloft” by your prayers and I ask you to continue to support me in this way. I, too, remember you before the Lord, and I impart my blessing as I offer my best wishes for a Christmas filled with light and peace for each of you and for all your dear ones. Happy Christmas!



Text from page http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2013/12/21/pope_extends_christmas_greetings_to_curia/en1-757655
of the Vatican Radio website



TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; History; Ministry/Outreach
KEYWORDS:

1 posted on 12/21/2013 1:55:01 PM PST by NYer
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To: Tax-chick; GregB; Berlin_Freeper; SumProVita; narses; bboop; SevenofNine; Ronaldus Magnus; tiki; ...

Liberal? Conservative? Catholic! Ping


2 posted on 12/21/2013 1:55:46 PM PST by NYer ("The wise man is the one who can save his soul. - St. Nimatullah Al-Hardini)
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To: NYer

???


3 posted on 12/21/2013 1:58:48 PM PST by ZULU (Impeach that Bastard Barrack Hussein Obama the Doctor Mengele of Medical Care)
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To: NYer; Salvation
I have such high regard for these “Monsignori” who are cut from the same mould as the curiales of olden times, exemplary persons, Pope Francis.

He's a hypocrite.

Report: Pope stops naming monsignors

4 posted on 12/21/2013 2:44:42 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: NYer

Yeah, I’m going to need someone to translate this.


5 posted on 12/21/2013 2:52:48 PM PST by piusv
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To: ebb tide; Salvation
He's a hypocrite.

How so? According to the information posted at your link ...

Pope Francis has stopped granting priests the honorary title of "monsignor" in advance of an October meeting ...

Some have criticized the practice, saying it leads to an air of careerism in the church.

The title is honorific and the pope suspended granting it in advance of an October meeting.

Why is this issue so important to you?

6 posted on 12/21/2013 2:53:33 PM PST by NYer ("The wise man is the one who can save his soul. - St. Nimatullah Al-Hardini)
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To: NYer

So I read up on the Roman Curia (Court) whenever a Pope dies or in the case of Pope Benedict retires the entire Curia except the Cardinal Camerlengo and Major Penitentiary resign their office (sede vacante)

I think Pope Francis is utilizing what he knows of serving his entire life in South America. The Pontificial Commission for Latin America is a dicastery of the Roman Curia. Established by Pope Pius XII on April 19, 1958, it is charged with providing assistance to and examining matters pertaining to the Church in Latin America.

I am not Catholic, but what does the Catholic Church in Latin America believe. It was established prior to Vatican Council II in the 1960s.

Just maybe the church will return to its Conservative roots. i will try to dig a little more information.


7 posted on 12/21/2013 2:54:38 PM PST by hondact200 (Candor dat viribos alas (sincerity gives wings to strength) and Nil desperandum (never despair))
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To: NYer
I commented on this that if Pope Francis felt the need to say this to the Curia, secular political folks need it even more. Especially American political folks, on both sides of the aisle.
8 posted on 12/21/2013 2:57:55 PM PST by RichInOC (2013-14 Tiber Swim Team)
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To: NYer
"Pope sends out his blessing and thanks to people who did necessary, but often thankless and seemingly meaningless, work for The Church."

I'm floored!

9 posted on 12/21/2013 3:00:15 PM PST by who_would_fardels_bear
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To: hondact200
Just maybe the church will return to its Conservative roots.

Before attributing the label conservative, may I suggest you visit this thread.

TWO WORDS THAT CATHOLICS NEED TO STOP USING…LIKE NOW

10 posted on 12/21/2013 3:05:28 PM PST by NYer ("The wise man is the one who can save his soul. - St. Nimatullah Al-Hardini)
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To: NYer
Why is this issue so important to you?

The issue is not what is important to me. The issue is why does the pope now praise those who hold an "honorific" title, the same title he has suspended granting.

11 posted on 12/21/2013 3:14:49 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: hondact200
I am not Catholic, but what does the Catholic Church in Latin America believe. It was established prior to Vatican Council II in the 1960s.

The Catholic Church is universal, and has been in place since soon after Jesus's Death and Resurrection. What the Church teaches in Rome, she teaches in Latin America, and in North America, Asia, Europe and Africa. If Bishops in one place seem to disregard some teaching or other, it doesn't mean the Church in that area is different.

Each Catholic is responsible to God for his or her own soul, and needs to learn what the teachings are, in addition to what they may have learned in Sunday School. It is very easy to get a Catechism of the Catholic Church and read up on what the Church teaches on any subject, and the Scripture on which the teaching is based.

12 posted on 12/21/2013 3:25:04 PM PST by SuziQ
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To: ebb tide

I see your point. I don’t think that’s hypocrisy. I think it comes off as being disingenuous.


13 posted on 12/21/2013 3:30:30 PM PST by piusv
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To: ZULU

Gossip is, of course, the biting issue of our time.


14 posted on 12/21/2013 3:35:56 PM PST by GeronL (Extra Large Cheesy Over-Stuffed Hobbit)
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To: ebb tide
Well, you are pretty quick on the trigger with the word "hypocrite."

He can say he admires the monsigniori of old, but refrain from giving anyone that title, just as he could say he admires the pious kings and emperors of old, but refrain from giving anyone courtly rank today.

In other words, he could admire those men but judge that the title or office is not appropriate or not needed. Or would you have him crown a new Holy Roman Emperor?

Saying he's a hypocrite is uncalled-for, and shows a hastiness which is truly wince-worthy.

15 posted on 12/21/2013 3:39:42 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Come, Holy Spirit, fill the hearts of Thy faithful, and kindle in them the fire of Thy love.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Being a Monarchist, I would say “yes”.


16 posted on 12/21/2013 3:45:32 PM PST by AceMineral (Some people are slaves of their own stupidity.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o; NYer; Salvation

You’re throwing out a bunch of suppositions. I’ve merely stated facts. And the facts point to hypocrisy.


17 posted on 12/21/2013 3:53:41 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: AceMineral

+{{{|:o)


18 posted on 12/21/2013 3:56:29 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Come, Holy Spirit, fill the hearts of Thy faithful, and kindle in them the fire of Thy love.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
He can say he admires the monsigniori of old, ...

I really don't think this pope admires anything of "old", especially the traditional Latin Mass, the Holy Crusaders, etc.

19 posted on 12/21/2013 3:57:26 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide

So let’s get this straight for a minute. The current Pope no longer confers the title of Monsignor to priest as an honorary title because he feels it’s an unnecessary honor. ,But when he thanks retiring clergy for years of dedicated service they deserve, and another Pope conferred the title, he’s a hypocrite? You guys need to take a step back and think about this a bit more. He’s trying to simplify the church, eliminating the title of Monsignor, but isn’t supposed to thank the old monsignori for their life’s devotion. I’d say you need to find another fault with this guy. This isn’t hypocrisy or disingenuousness.


20 posted on 12/21/2013 3:59:27 PM PST by irish guard
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To: ebb tide
What Pope Francis said is that he admires those men, not that he admires those men's titles.

Look again.

Kindly refrain from calling people hypocrites when they don't see and say things exactly the way you do. It presumes an insight into their interior intentions which you do not have.

It would be more clear and objective to say "that's an apparent contradiction," or "that looks like an inconsistency to me," or "there's a paradox here" or, better yet, "I don't quite understand what he means."

That's a phrase I could --- probably should ---use more frequently, myself.

21 posted on 12/21/2013 4:01:20 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Come, Holy Spirit, fill the hearts of Thy faithful, and kindle in them the fire of Thy love.)
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To: NYer

I read the How the first Latin American Pope is Reshaping the Catholic Church - Council on Hemispheric Affairs
Pope Francis formerly Archbishop of Buoneos Aires
Latin America 425 million Catholic (the largest Catholic Population in the World)
Pope is reforming the controversial bank of the Vatican Institute for the Works of religion - transparency and honesty in the bank’s operations including publishing the bank’s budget.
chastisement of the priests regarding personal advancement and worldly ambition
by taking the namesake of Francis (St Francis of Assisi) he wants the church to focus on the poor, the sick, the orphans, the homeless and the marginalized (based on his ministry in the slums of Buenos Aires.
he disagrees with the Liberation theology, but wants a church theology ‘founded on the culture and religious devotion of the common people, of the poor in the first place, with their traditional spiritually and their sense of justice.
As Cardinal - opposed gay marriage and supported legislation more in line with Conservative Catholic social principles.

I understand that the pope desires the church to be more of serving than be served.

I will give you an example of the church denomination i belong too. A Conservative Lutheran Church
own schools preschool through secondary education,
own college for its teachers
and its own seminary for ministers.
Serves the church and the public through
Bethseda Homes for People with Developmental Disabilities
bethseda Thrift Stores
Lutheran Counseling Centers
Service Organizations
Kingdom Builders for building churches, homes.

I do not know everything about this Pope, I have reservations too. But I am optimistic that he desires to clean up some of the worldliness that has encroached in the Catholic Church. Wait and see what happens.


22 posted on 12/21/2013 4:02:56 PM PST by hondact200 (Candor dat viribos alas (sincerity gives wings to strength) and Nil desperandum (never despair))
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To: irish guard
He only refers to himself as the bishop of Rome, not the Vicar of Christ. Is that simplyfying the Church enough for you?
23 posted on 12/21/2013 4:06:38 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide

He is a humble man, trying to impress more humility on the church. What is your point here? Pope Francis is a decent man trying to do decent hints. He grew up in a world of misfortune, where many poor people struggle. If he chooses to merely call himself the bishop of Rome, I see no harm. The Pope is, after all, the bishop of Rome is he not?


24 posted on 12/21/2013 4:12:28 PM PST by irish guard
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To: irish guard

Further, from Stephen I, to Leo, to Gregory, they all referred to themselves as the Bishop of Rome. Further, the term Vicar of Christ and Bishop of Rome are interchangeable.


25 posted on 12/21/2013 4:18:54 PM PST by irish guard
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To: Mrs. Don-o

So are you saying he now admires none of his priests?


26 posted on 12/21/2013 4:20:58 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: irish guard

None of the popes you have mentioned above has forbidden a priestly order from offering the TLM.

None of them has said atheists can go to Heaven.

None of them has said everyone has their own idea of “good” and “evil” and as far they follow their own idea of “good”, the world will be a better place.


27 posted on 12/21/2013 4:28:08 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide

Then at Christmas time feel free to hate the Pope. I’ll go the other way and love what he’s trying to do for the poor and downtrodden. I’m no liberal by any stretch but if you want to assume I’m some kind of hypocrite then be my guest as well. You and I will have to disagree.


28 posted on 12/21/2013 4:35:34 PM PST by irish guard
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To: irish guard

Maybe I’m making too much of a leap on the hate comment. I will apologize there’s no way to delete posts. But it is clear you dislike the man. So I’ll modify my comment to dislike


29 posted on 12/21/2013 4:37:11 PM PST by irish guard
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To: ebb tide

Stop being silly with sophomoric insults like “hypocrite” to the successor of St. Peter.


30 posted on 12/21/2013 4:38:56 PM PST by Steelfish (ui)
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To: irish guard
He is a humble man, trying to impress more humility on the church.

Humble man? You bet he is! And he'll be the first to tell you.

“The Council Fathers knew that being open to modern culture meant religious ecumenism and dialogue with non-believers. But afterwards very little was done [!] in that direction….“I have the humility and ambition to want to do something.”

31 posted on 12/21/2013 4:40:14 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide

So ebb...was I right. Is it hate or just dislike. You really have issues with this man.


32 posted on 12/21/2013 4:43:30 PM PST by irish guard
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To: Steelfish

St Peter denied Christ three times after promising Him he never would. What do you call that?


33 posted on 12/21/2013 4:45:32 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide; irish guard
"I really don't think this pope admires anything of "old"...

Amazing. Reading the Pope's mind again, ebb tide, what a gift you have for clairvoyance. And finding there only what you expected to find: Aha! Universal, global faults! And papal motivations? Always the worst!

As far as the Pope goes, apparently for some people no judgment is too quick, or too extreme.

I hope so very much that I have misunderstood you.

Please pray for me --- I ask, even, sacrifice for me --- that I can avoid the sin of rash judgment. I will do the same for you.

34 posted on 12/21/2013 5:13:44 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (“Ideas create idols; only wonder leads to knowing.” Saint Gregory of Nyssa)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

I told you what I think. Is that a sin?


35 posted on 12/21/2013 6:02:01 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide

At. Peter was a dinner just like me. I have many faults and sin. From time to time I say one thing and do another, yet I pray for God’s grace that I might one day find heaven. Are you suggesting now that Peter, the first Pope is not a good person because he denied Christ? I hope you find mercy in your heart and hope you pray that I find mercy as well. Merry Christmas


36 posted on 12/21/2013 6:03:30 PM PST by irish guard
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To: Mrs. Don-o
As far as the Pope goes, apparently for some people no judgment is too quick, or too extreme.

"Judgement", you say? The Pope refuses to judge homosexual priests, but he does have his little Book of Insults" for other people.

The Pope Francis Little Book of Insults

37 posted on 12/21/2013 6:13:45 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: Mrs. Don-o; ebb tide
Amazing. Reading the Pope's mind again, ebb tide, what a gift you have for clairvoyance.

I will not speak for ebb tide, but I find this above rather a strange assertion. Why is what has been said above an indication of supposed clairvoyance? Many people have said he is a humble man. Many have said he cares for the poor. Why are those statements not mind reading? They are no different than criticising him for his positions on tradition, which are anything but supportive or sympathetic. The reality is that this pope has clearly evinced a strong disrespect for tradition and an overriding desire for modernism. I will agree with ebb tide in saying that I have strong doubts that Pope Francis admires anything of "old."

38 posted on 12/21/2013 6:21:07 PM PST by cothrige
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To: ebb tide

my bishop stopped naming them, why? our diocese can’t afford the raise in salary to pay them.


39 posted on 12/21/2013 6:29:59 PM PST by Coleus (Vivat Jesus)
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To: NYer

I have known a few monsignors over the years. They typically prefer to be called “Father” and consider the “monsignor” too fancy a term for a guy who merely has been around the block a few times. I don’t think too many priests would care if the term were no longer used.


40 posted on 12/21/2013 9:11:57 PM PST by married21 ( As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.)
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To: cothrige

I agree. His actions and words show otherwise.


41 posted on 12/22/2013 6:44:40 AM PST by piusv
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To: Coleus

The local priest must have gotten in just under the wire. Knowing what I know of that priest, it sickens me that he was honored with the title of “Monsignor”. But it is par for the course for post-Vatican II moves. I wouldn’t be surprised if Francis (and his liberal Congregation of Bishops) has a hand in making him bishop one day.

I need a shower.


42 posted on 12/22/2013 6:49:03 AM PST by piusv
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To: NYer

**To these two qualities of professionalism and service, I would also like to add a third, which is holiness of life.**

BTTT!


43 posted on 12/22/2013 7:06:15 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: ebb tide

Yes, and this is why Christ bestowed upon him the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven after His resurrection.


44 posted on 12/22/2013 9:51:38 AM PST by Steelfish (ui)
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To: Steelfish

Why is that some popes are recognized as saints in Heaven and some are not?


45 posted on 12/22/2013 9:54:50 AM PST by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide

Because some are not saintly. Not all of Christ’s disciples led saintly lives. The Church does not create saints. The Church simply affirms those whose holy lives on earth are manifest by miraculous intercessions and their saintly lives are now in Heaven.


46 posted on 12/22/2013 4:24:03 PM PST by Steelfish (ui)
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