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'Duck Dynasty,' meet Pope Francis
Washington Post ^ | 12/22/2013 | E. J. Dionne Jr.

Posted on 12/23/2013 8:32:21 PM PST by Belteshazzar

If any given religion and its holy writings can be used to support diametrically opposed conclusions about how to live life and how to approach politics, why should religious faith be taken seriously?

Please forgive such a stark question in Christmas week, when we tend to file away hard issues in the name of joy, warmth, family and, yes, commerce. And let’s stipulate that this is a healthy impulse in light of the meanness that characterizes many of our debates.

But the defrocking of a Methodist minister for performing a gay wedding service and the “Duck Dynasty” controversy remind us that the appearance of a savior whose ministry led to the creation of one of the world’s most durable religions did not end our battles with each other over what God demands.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Current Events; General Discusssion; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: duckdynasty; homosexuality; marriage; popefrancis
I have read E. J. Dionne Jr. for years, not because I find him profound or perceptive, but because I find him to be such a reliable example of progressive group think on nearly every topic imaginable.

This article is a perfect example of liberal group think about Christianity. It is at once shallow, vacuous, condescending, and judgmental (the last, of course, in a very culturally-acceptable way). I read it and pity first, Dionne that he probably thinks he has written something incisive and penetrating, and second, his readers whose understanding of Christianity has been lessened as a result of reading it.

1 posted on 12/23/2013 8:32:21 PM PST by Belteshazzar
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To: Belteshazzar

Maybe also the writer realizes that this year has been a BUSY one for the Christian faith in so many ways.


2 posted on 12/23/2013 8:34:48 PM PST by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: Belteshazzar

bttt


3 posted on 12/23/2013 8:36:38 PM PST by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life :o)
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To: Biggirl

EJ Dionne needs to get his head examined. Pope Francis has called gay marriage demoniacal and child adoption by gays as child abuse.

http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/breaking-new-pope-francis-from-argentina-has-called-gay-marriage-of-the-devil/politics/2013/03/13/62495


4 posted on 12/23/2013 8:40:55 PM PST by Steelfish (ui)
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To: Belteshazzar

“end our battles with each other over what God demands.”

There is no battle. There is only the Word, those who follow it, and those who don’t. That’s it. End of story. I really hate when theological amateurs write articles on theology.


5 posted on 12/23/2013 8:44:16 PM PST by Viennacon
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To: Viennacon

AMEN!


6 posted on 12/23/2013 8:45:51 PM PST by doc1019 (Inside every older person is a younger person wondering what happened!)
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To: Viennacon

No kidding. Morality isn’t something you just make up as you go along. Oh and it’s not really supposed to be easy either. If it were, then what would be the big deal if someone were to live an upright, moral life?


7 posted on 12/23/2013 8:49:02 PM PST by Edward Teach
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To: Steelfish

Dionne reads only the liberal take on Francis. You expect him to go to the source?


8 posted on 12/23/2013 8:52:14 PM PST by Mach9
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To: Mach9

Or when it comes to the issues of helping the poor.


9 posted on 12/23/2013 8:57:10 PM PST by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: Belteshazzar

Don’t care what Dionnne, the Pope or Robertson have to say. If it agrees with the Word of God it is right, if not, get thee behind me Satan (but not too close behind as Phil would attest).


10 posted on 12/23/2013 9:00:05 PM PST by Starstruck (If my reply offends, you probably don't understand sarcasm or criticism...or do.)
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To: Edward Teach

That’s what these idiots think. They’re moral relativists, but funnily enough when a conservative says Uganda’s sodomy law is just a cultural difference that the left should accept, they denounce moral relativism!

Let us take the sickeningly smug and greasy Piers Morgan. Morgan states, “I am a Christian (Catholic), but I recognize that a lot of the stuff in the Bible is insane.”

This in itself is insane. A Christian may have doctrinal differences about murky areas, but he cannot denounce clear areas of the Bible (the parts about carnal sexual acts for instance) as ‘insane’. He is in effect calling God ‘insane’, which is of course blasphemy. Not to mention this view essentially frees idiots like Piers to simply pick and choose which parts of the Bible qualify as ‘sane’ to them.
You cannot take 5 of the 10 Commandments. You take it all, or take nothing.
I am not a theologian. I could not name you all the popes, or all of the people in attendance at the Council of Nicaea, but I could make Piers Morgan look like an idiot by asking him very basic questions that would force him to admit he is not a Christian at all. He’s a man who picks and chooses which parts of the Bible he agrees with, but no doubt accuses his opponents of doing exactly that!

You’re absolutely right, they want it to be easy. Everything has to come without struggle or sacrifice. They so desperately want it to just be a case of “don’t murder anyone and you’re a good guy”. Unless the bar is on the floor, they’ll call it too high to cross.
I’d ask Piers and co. why did God send his Son to die in the first place if it was so easy to be a good person? Where is the need for redemption if all I need to do is not be a Hitler?

And what’s more, their view of Christianity is so warped, they have an Islamic view of God’s justice, that if you outweigh your bad deeds with good deeds, 51/49, then the Kingdom awaits. No, Piers. When we display our righteous deeds, they are nothing but filthy rags. That is why Christ is needed. That is why we ask for God’s mercy rather than his judgement, because on his judgement, we ALL fail. So why do we keep his commands as best we can? Because we love Him, and though we know that every man is a sinner, we wish to do all that is within our power to please Him. That is loving God with all your heart.

When I do good deeds, and avoid temptation, I’m not doing it on some misguided belief it earns me ‘Heaven points’. No, the Son has already given me the keys to the Kingdom through HIM! I do good deeds and avoid temptation as tribute, in thanks to God, who has redeemed me already, thousands of years ago.

Praise God.


11 posted on 12/23/2013 9:21:12 PM PST by Viennacon
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To: Steelfish

I think you filled in some words that Francis didn’t use, for instance he called homosexual adoption discrimination against children’s right to two sexes of parents, he didn’t use the word “abuse”.


12 posted on 12/23/2013 9:58:38 PM PST by ansel12 ( Ben Bradlee -- JFK told me that "he was all for people's solving their problems by abortion".)
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To: ansel12

Depends which version one uses:
http://www.gcn.ie/New_Pope_Describes_Gay_Adoption_As_Child_Abuse


13 posted on 12/23/2013 10:10:25 PM PST by Steelfish (ui)
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To: Viennacon

“end our battles with each other over what God demands.”

Yeah. Kind of breath taking isn’t’ it? A little confusion here about who is going to be answering to whom on judgment day.


14 posted on 12/23/2013 10:20:32 PM PST by Belteshazzar (We are not justified by our works but by faith - De Jacob et vita beata 2 +Ambrose of Milan)
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To: Steelfish

I used the version that you posted for us, which was wiki, this new gay link that you just posted doesn’t seem like an actual source, and they aren’t very convincing.


15 posted on 12/23/2013 10:23:22 PM PST by ansel12 ( Ben Bradlee -- JFK told me that "he was all for people's solving their problems by abortion".)
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To: Belteshazzar
What EJ doesn't seem to understand is that Pope Francis and Phil Robertson believe the very same thing, with regard to the PERSON involved in the homosexual lifestyle. Neither Phil nor the Pope seek to discriminate against the person, and know that each person is a child of God, and only God can ultimately judge. However they both still believe that the ACTIONS of homosexuals are sinful, according to the teachings of the Bible.

Liberals are trying to make Pope Francis out to be one of them, because he talks compassionately, and in the process they hope to denigrate Pope Benedict, who they thought was the Big White Meanie. It is liberals who are completely ignoring the fact that the Pope has repeatedly said he has no wish to, nor could he if he wanted to do so, change Church teachings on sexual matters.

16 posted on 12/23/2013 11:45:14 PM PST by SuziQ
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To: Belteshazzar
Pope Francis on Gay Marriage:

Dear Sisters,


I write this letter to each one of you in the four Monasteries of Buenos Aires. The Argentine people must face, in the next few weeks, a situation whose result may gravely harm the family. It is the bill on matrimony of persons of the same sex.

The identity of the family, and its survival, are in jeopardy here: father, mother, and children. The life of so many children who will be discriminated beforehand due to the lack of human maturity that God willed them to have with a father and a mother is in jeopardy. A clear rejection of the law of God, engraved in our hearts, is in jeopardy.

I recall words of Saint Thérèse when she speaks of the infirmity of her childhood. She says that the envy of the Devil tried to extort her family after her older sister joined the Carmel. Here, the envy of the Devil, through which sin entered the world, is also present, and deceitfully intends to destroy the image of God: man and woman, who receive the mandate to grow, multiply, and conquer the earth. Let us not be naive: it is not a simple political struggle; it is an intention [which is] destructive of the plan of God. It is not a mere legislative project (this is a mere instrument), but rather a "move" of the father of lies who wishes to confuse and deceive the children of God.

Jesus tells us that, in order to defend us from this lying accuser, he will send us the Spirit of Truth. Today, the Nation [patria], before this situation, needs the special assistance of the Holy Ghost that may place the light of Truth amid the shadows of error; it needs this Advocate who may defend us from the enchantment of so many sophisms with which this bill is being justified, and which confuse and deceive even people of good will.

That is why I turn to you and ask from you prayer and sacrifice, the two invincible weapons which Saint Thérèse confessed to have. Cry out to the Lord that he may send his Spirit to the Senators who are to place their votes. That they may not do it moved by error or by circumstantial matters, but rather according to what the natural law and the law of God tell them. Pray for them, for their families; that the Lord may visit, strengthen, and console them. Pray that they may do great good for the Nation.

This bill will be discussed in the Senate after July 13. Let us look towards Saint Joseph, to Mary, the Child, and let us ask with fervor that they will defend the Argentine family in this moment. Let us recall what God himself told his people in a time of great anguish: "this war is not yours, but God's". That they may succour, defend, and accompany us in this war of God.

Thank you for what you will do in this struggle for the Nation. And, please, I beg you, pray for me also. May Jesus bless you, and may the Blessed Virgin protect you.

Affectionately,

Card. Jorge Mario Bergoglio s.j., Archbishop of Buenos Aires

Seems to me that Phil Robertson would be completely down with the Holy Father on this issue.

17 posted on 12/24/2013 3:34:39 AM PST by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good -- Leo XIII)
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To: Belteshazzar
I have never heard of E. J. Dionne Jr. but one of the statements below show that he is not seeing it from scriptural doctrine but from liberal idealism. <<>> This is what is meant by judging. Leviticus 20:13 13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. 2 Peter 2 1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. 3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. 4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; 6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; Christians are under a different law, they are given a chance to repent and turn to god, if you read 2 peter 1,2 and 3 again you can see who the preachers are that peter is referring to. peter 4 For the time is, that judgment should begin at the house of God. And if first at us, what shall be the end of them that believe not the gospel of God? 18 And if the just man shall scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 1 Corinthians 5 1 It is absolutely heard, that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as the like is not among the heathens; that one should have his father's wife. Many preachers call this incest, they are just full of bull, it does not say the wife is his own mother, but most likely what we would call a step mother. 5 To deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. What is Paul saying? Get the S.O.B. out of the Church. 6 Your glorying is not good. Know you not that a little leaven corrupteth the whole lump? What are they glorying about? their love, and their godliness in not judging. If you have one rotten apple in a barrel it will rotten the whole barrel of apples. A preacher who is corrupting the Church needs to be gotten out of the Church. Sure a Church has no right to condemn any one to death but they do have a right to kick a member who is not doing the work out of the Church. Why don,t these dreamers who want to be part of a Church read just what it means to be a member of the Church? acts ch 5 1 through 16 will give people a hint of the seriousness of becoming a member of the Church. There is nothing about having to become a member of the Church to be saved or even to go to Church but those who became members were expected to take it very serious. 1 Tim 5 v 9 through 16 also point out what a Church member is or should be, though it is plain they were already having problems at that time.
18 posted on 12/24/2013 9:00:23 AM PST by ravenwolf
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To: Viennacon
That’s what these idiots think. They’re moral relativists, but funnily enough when a conservative says Uganda’s sodomy law is just a cultural difference that the left should accept, they denounce moral relativism!

This.

Let us take the sickeningly smug and greasy Piers Morgan. Morgan states, “I am a Christian (Catholic), but I recognize that a lot of the stuff in the Bible is insane.”

So . . . he's a mainstream "conservative" post-VII Catholic, then?

19 posted on 12/24/2013 9:16:15 AM PST by Zionist Conspirator (The Left: speaking power to truth since Shevirat HaKelim.)
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To: SuziQ
What EJ doesn't seem to understand is that Pope Francis and Phil Robertson believe the very same thing

Only on this issue.

20 posted on 12/24/2013 9:18:07 AM PST by Zionist Conspirator (The Left: speaking power to truth since Shevirat HaKelim.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

He’s a mainstream scumbag is about all I’ll say


21 posted on 12/24/2013 9:21:27 AM PST by Viennacon
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To: ravenwolf

Don,t know what happened, i spaced everything but it did not come out spaced.


22 posted on 12/24/2013 9:21:32 AM PST by ravenwolf
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To: Viennacon

The word of God is not ‘theology.’

Theology is man’s invention to twist God’s word.


23 posted on 12/24/2013 11:24:20 AM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: Belteshazzar

I rarely read EJ Dionne’s columns. He is reliably liberal and is a typical leftist who embraces the love part of the Christian Gospel while avoiding the cross, sin, and the call to conversion.

Enough said.


24 posted on 12/24/2013 2:31:06 PM PST by Gumdrop
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To: Viennacon

A nice read; and it couldn’t have come at a nicer time––Christmas Eve. Thank you.


25 posted on 12/24/2013 6:18:58 PM PST by tomsbartoo (St Pius X watch over us)
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To: Steelfish

Pope Francis and Phil Robertson have the exact same views on practicing homosexuals. The Obama-loving EJ Cafeteria Catholic Dionne needs to start abiding by Catholic teachings or find himself another faith.


26 posted on 12/24/2013 8:11:57 PM PST by NKP_Vet ("Rather than love, than money, than fame, then give truth" ~ Henry David Thoreau)
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To: NKP_Vet

Well said.


27 posted on 12/25/2013 10:18:52 AM PST by Steelfish (ui)
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