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Was John saved when he believed in Christ's resurrection in Jn. 20:8? Cleopas & Peter in Lk. 24:34?
12/30/2013 | Laissez-Faire Capitalist

Posted on 12/30/2013 12:24:18 PM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist

1.) When John went to the tomb with Peter in John chapter 20, was he saved when he went into the tomb and believed (John 20:8)?

2.) Was Cleopas (and the other person who was with him) saved when he (and his traveling companion) returned from his trip to Emmaus back to Jerusalem saying that they had seen the risen savior after Jesus broke bread with them and their eyes were opened (Luke 24:33-35)?

3.) More than that, was Peter saved when Luke 24:33-35 says that Peter also saw the risen savior?

4.) And how about Mary Magdalene? Was she saved when she returned to tell the disciples that she had seen the risen savior in John chapter 20:18? "I have seen THE LORD!"

When a company of individuals stood on a hill and saw Jesus Christ ascend into heaven, were they saved? Surely they were believers...

A well known televison pastor has said:

"At salvation all believers not only become full members of Christ's body, the church, but the Holy Spirit is placed within each of them."


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Charismatic Christian; Evangelical Christian; General Discusssion; History; Mainline Protestant; Ministry/Outreach; Theology
KEYWORDS: salvation

1 posted on 12/30/2013 12:24:18 PM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

How would you (Laissez-faire capitalist) answer these questions?


2 posted on 12/30/2013 12:31:30 PM PST by kosciusko51 (Enough of "Who is John Galt?" Who is Patrick Henry?)
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To: kosciusko51; All

I agree with what the well-known television pastor says!

I believe that they were regenerated then and there.


3 posted on 12/30/2013 12:39:01 PM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Short answer: Acts 2:38 says no.


4 posted on 12/30/2013 12:40:43 PM PST by T-Bird45 (It feels like the seventies, and it shouldn't.)
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To: T-Bird45

Romans 10:9 does not agree with your understanding of Acts 2:38. Also, was the thief on the cross saved when he confessed his belief in Jesus?


5 posted on 12/30/2013 12:47:46 PM PST by kosciusko51 (Enough of "Who is John Galt?" Who is Patrick Henry?)
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To: T-Bird45; All

But the well-known televison pastor would seem to disagree with you. And Acts 2:38 agrees with me and him, too.

They were already regenerated before Acts 2:28, because ALL believe become full members of Christ’s body and the Holy Spirit is placed within each of them at salvation. And thety clearly believed.No doubt about that.

Were they half-way saved before Acts 2:38?

Those presented here clearly were all believers (and thus saved) BEFORE the Day of Pentecost.


6 posted on 12/30/2013 12:54:58 PM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: kosciusko51

Yes, you are right!

The thief was saved.


7 posted on 12/30/2013 12:55:39 PM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

They were saved whenever it was that they belived Jesus was the Messiah.


8 posted on 12/30/2013 12:58:57 PM PST by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

I am too ignorant to know God’s thoughts or actions.


9 posted on 12/30/2013 1:00:32 PM PST by mountainlion (Live well for those that did not make it back.)
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To: smokingfrog

And thus they were full members of the body of Christ, and the Holy Spirit was placed within each of these believers before the Day of Pentecost.


10 posted on 12/30/2013 1:01:36 PM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: mountainlion; All

But we can know His Word.

According to 1 Corinthians, Romans 10:9-10, etc, etc, when one believes, they have the Holy Spirit placed within them, and they become full members of the body of Christ.

Neither John, nor Peter, nor Cleopas, nor Mary Magdalene, nor those assembled on the mountain had to wait until Acts 2:38. They were believers (and thus saved) before that day, as the scripturtes show us!!!


11 posted on 12/30/2013 1:04:59 PM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
The question is, what action is required to be saved?

Romans 10:9-10 King James Version (KJV)

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

That does it for me...

12 posted on 12/30/2013 1:06:58 PM PST by dps.inspect (rage against the Obama machine...)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

This is one of those questions that really cannot be answered with any certainty. If Eph. 1 informs us that they were chosen before the foundation of the earth, then we are not so much trying to determine what moment the individual goes from death to life, but are they among the elect? If they are, they will undoubtedly be raised up on that day.


13 posted on 12/30/2013 1:09:57 PM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Was Abram saved?


14 posted on 12/30/2013 1:10:38 PM PST by dangerdoc (see post #6)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Was Abraham saved?


15 posted on 12/30/2013 1:10:58 PM PST by dangerdoc (see post #6)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

What about faith!?


16 posted on 12/30/2013 1:12:15 PM PST by right way right (What's it gonna take? (guillotines?))
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To: dangerdoc

“Was Abram saved?”

Only with the good pastors approval. s/


17 posted on 12/30/2013 1:14:50 PM PST by right way right (What's it gonna take? (guillotines?))
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist; kosciusko51; T-Bird45
Galatians 3

You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? 2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun y the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? 4 Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5 So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 6 Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness. 7 Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. 8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “All the nations will be blessed in you.” 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.

Romans 4

4 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. 5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: 7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds have been forgiven, And whose sins have been covered. 8 “Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will not take into account.” 9 Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, “Faith was credited to Abraham as righteousness.” 10 How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised; 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised. 13 For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if those who are of the Law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise is nullified; 15 for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, there also is no violation. 16 For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,

Luke 13

Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets’; 27 and He will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you are from; depart from Me, all you evildoers.’ 28 In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but yourselves being thrown out. 29 And they will come from east and west and from north and south, and will recline at the table in the kingdom of God. 30 And behold, some are last who will be first and some are first who will be last.”

18 posted on 12/30/2013 1:20:34 PM PST by mountn man (The Pleasure You Get From Life Is Equal To The Attitude You Put Into It)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Define “saved.”


19 posted on 12/30/2013 1:47:05 PM PST by Buggman (returnofbenjamin.com - Baruch haBa b'Shem ADONAI!)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

What must I do to be saved??? Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. so simple No door to door, no Hail Mary’s no giving money to anyone, not even Baptism, simply believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. I doubt if any Catholics will get this but then they get their doctrine for Rome, not the Bible (I hear INCOMING!!!)


20 posted on 12/30/2013 2:26:18 PM PST by fish hawk (no tyrant can remain in power without the consent and cooperation of his victims.)
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To: fish hawk

Are you saved forever - until your death - no matter what you do, think, say or believe between now and then?


21 posted on 12/30/2013 2:53:03 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

I have been a theology technician a lot in the 45 years after my second birth. I finally decided that I and everyone around me was happier when I stopped talking so much and focused instead on being and doing. Otherwise it is mostly angels on the head of a pin.


22 posted on 12/30/2013 3:19:00 PM PST by Tom Bombadil
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To: D-fendr

yep. Paraphrase: neither height nor depth, nor powers or principalities can take me from his hands. Not even if I committed suicide. (contrary to a lot of peoples beliefs)


23 posted on 12/30/2013 3:28:10 PM PST by fish hawk (no tyrant can remain in power without the consent and cooperation of his victims.)
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To: T-Bird45

The Gospel of John says “yes.”


24 posted on 12/30/2013 3:44:09 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

And why do you believe a television pastor? LOL!


25 posted on 12/30/2013 3:45:12 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: dps.inspect

John was at the foot of the cross. Don’t actions speak loudly?


26 posted on 12/30/2013 3:46:19 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: fish hawk
can take me from his hands

What if no one took you, but you left His hands?

27 posted on 12/30/2013 6:07:41 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: dps.inspect

I believe all who knew Jesus and believed his message were saved and reside in Heaven. Those who were witnesses to his resurection were specially blessed. But that is just me.


28 posted on 12/30/2013 8:57:39 PM PST by Forward the Light Brigade (Into the Jaws of H*ll)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Hebrews Chapter 11


29 posted on 12/30/2013 9:21:50 PM PST by ThisLittleLightofMine
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To: D-fendr

are you asking me these questions to see what I think or how far along I am, like a test? Or, do you not know and are being serious as you don’t know yourself? What are your views on this, you haven’t stated any?


30 posted on 12/31/2013 11:06:38 AM PST by fish hawk (no tyrant can remain in power without the consent and cooperation of his victims.)
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To: fish hawk

Thanks for your reply.

Asking these questions are, I hope, a way to show my beliefs and why they are what they are.

For example, in the last one, I believe we can choose to leave His hands, and possibly, therefore, not persevere to the end.

What’s your view?


31 posted on 12/31/2013 7:10:37 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
I believe that they were regenerated then and there.

The issue is what you mean by "saved." Where OT saints saved, such as Simeon the devout priest was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him, even though Christ had not died, and the Spirit poured out on all flesh?

What of a man like his faith after the resurrection who had not heard of Christ?

Would the devout Jews of Abrahamic faith on the day of Pentecost have been damned if they had died before they heard of Christ?

Would the followers of John the Baptist been damned if they had died before the heard and believed on Christ in Acts 19, even though they prepared for Him?

In what way were the apostles saved after the resurrection that they were not before it?

Or was it impossible that such seekers would not be enlightened about Christ?

I submit that if the latter is possible, then they would have been saved as men in the OT, but would not have known in this life the removal of their sins or necessarily the reception of the Spirit of God.

NT salvation is not simply being saved from Hell, which OT believers were but could not go to be with the Lord in glory till the resurrection, but NT salvation is "so great salvation" (Heb. 3:2) as it is "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost." (Titus 3:5)

Believers in this life are "are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God." (1 Corinthians 6:11)

Meaning not just having sins forgiven under the rubric of the atonement to comes as in the OT,. but their sins put away, and declared righteousness, and receiving the Spirit.

32 posted on 12/31/2013 7:35:26 PM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: D-fendr

Well , He has given us free will. I have confusion about this particular question because of the verses that say and at least insinuate that we can’t lose our salvation. I could only think that it possible a person like that was not really “saved” to begin with. Then again, even then we may not lose salvation by turning away but expect to be taken to the wood shed. You got me on this one but overall, I have no qualms about my own salvation so will not lose sleep over whether some one else can reject his. Happy New Year and big Aloha from Maui.


33 posted on 12/31/2013 10:29:21 PM PST by fish hawk (no tyrant can remain in power without the consent and cooperation of his victims.)
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To: fish hawk

Well, we agree on free will so that eliminates a lot of disagreement such as double predestination, etc.

I think “not really saved to begin with” allows a really big fudge factor and also the fact that we can be wrong.

In general, I think of salvation as integral to what occurs at death - this is, after all, what we are saved from: being saved is being one “who endures to the end.” Finishing the race as Paul refers to it. We cannot presume to have endured that which we have not yet faced or finishing a race we have not run.

But there is still the life and salvation prior - the process being completed at death. We do not know what we will face before then, what sins we will fall to, what harmful actions we will commit, whether we will repent of them and so on. But we are saved by grace through faith in the present moment and the next moment...

I think it more accurate for Christians to say: I am saved, I am being saved, with faith and hope that I will be saved when I enter heaven.

Thanks for your thoughtful post, Happy New Year, and a big Howdy from Texas.


34 posted on 01/01/2014 10:26:29 AM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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