Posted on 12/30/2013 12:24:18 PM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
1.) When John went to the tomb with Peter in John chapter 20, was he saved when he went into the tomb and believed (John 20:8)?
2.) Was Cleopas (and the other person who was with him) saved when he (and his traveling companion) returned from his trip to Emmaus back to Jerusalem saying that they had seen the risen savior after Jesus broke bread with them and their eyes were opened (Luke 24:33-35)?
3.) More than that, was Peter saved when Luke 24:33-35 says that Peter also saw the risen savior?
4.) And how about Mary Magdalene? Was she saved when she returned to tell the disciples that she had seen the risen savior in John chapter 20:18? "I have seen THE LORD!"
When a company of individuals stood on a hill and saw Jesus Christ ascend into heaven, were they saved? Surely they were believers...
A well known televison pastor has said:
"At salvation all believers not only become full members of Christ's body, the church, but the Holy Spirit is placed within each of them."
Are you saved forever - until your death - no matter what you do, think, say or believe between now and then?
I have been a theology technician a lot in the 45 years after my second birth. I finally decided that I and everyone around me was happier when I stopped talking so much and focused instead on being and doing. Otherwise it is mostly angels on the head of a pin.
yep. Paraphrase: neither height nor depth, nor powers or principalities can take me from his hands. Not even if I committed suicide. (contrary to a lot of peoples beliefs)
The Gospel of John says “yes.”
And why do you believe a television pastor? LOL!
John was at the foot of the cross. Don’t actions speak loudly?
What if no one took you, but you left His hands?
I believe all who knew Jesus and believed his message were saved and reside in Heaven. Those who were witnesses to his resurection were specially blessed. But that is just me.
Hebrews Chapter 11
are you asking me these questions to see what I think or how far along I am, like a test? Or, do you not know and are being serious as you don’t know yourself? What are your views on this, you haven’t stated any?
Thanks for your reply.
Asking these questions are, I hope, a way to show my beliefs and why they are what they are.
For example, in the last one, I believe we can choose to leave His hands, and possibly, therefore, not persevere to the end.
What’s your view?
The issue is what you mean by "saved." Where OT saints saved, such as Simeon the devout priest was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him, even though Christ had not died, and the Spirit poured out on all flesh?
What of a man like his faith after the resurrection who had not heard of Christ?
Would the devout Jews of Abrahamic faith on the day of Pentecost have been damned if they had died before they heard of Christ?
Would the followers of John the Baptist been damned if they had died before the heard and believed on Christ in Acts 19, even though they prepared for Him?
In what way were the apostles saved after the resurrection that they were not before it?
Or was it impossible that such seekers would not be enlightened about Christ?
I submit that if the latter is possible, then they would have been saved as men in the OT, but would not have known in this life the removal of their sins or necessarily the reception of the Spirit of God.
NT salvation is not simply being saved from Hell, which OT believers were but could not go to be with the Lord in glory till the resurrection, but NT salvation is "so great salvation" (Heb. 3:2) as it is "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost." (Titus 3:5)
Believers in this life are "are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God." (1 Corinthians 6:11)
Meaning not just having sins forgiven under the rubric of the atonement to comes as in the OT,. but their sins put away, and declared righteousness, and receiving the Spirit.
Well , He has given us free will. I have confusion about this particular question because of the verses that say and at least insinuate that we can’t lose our salvation. I could only think that it possible a person like that was not really “saved” to begin with. Then again, even then we may not lose salvation by turning away but expect to be taken to the wood shed. You got me on this one but overall, I have no qualms about my own salvation so will not lose sleep over whether some one else can reject his. Happy New Year and big Aloha from Maui.
Well, we agree on free will so that eliminates a lot of disagreement such as double predestination, etc.
I think “not really saved to begin with” allows a really big fudge factor and also the fact that we can be wrong.
In general, I think of salvation as integral to what occurs at death - this is, after all, what we are saved from: being saved is being one “who endures to the end.” Finishing the race as Paul refers to it. We cannot presume to have endured that which we have not yet faced or finishing a race we have not run.
But there is still the life and salvation prior - the process being completed at death. We do not know what we will face before then, what sins we will fall to, what harmful actions we will commit, whether we will repent of them and so on. But we are saved by grace through faith in the present moment and the next moment...
I think it more accurate for Christians to say: I am saved, I am being saved, with faith and hope that I will be saved when I enter heaven.
Thanks for your thoughtful post, Happy New Year, and a big Howdy from Texas.
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