Skip to comments.Do John Hagee or Perry Stone support Messianic Jews and/or Messianic Jewish Rabbis?
Posted on 01/07/2014 1:55:57 PM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
Just wondering if anyone had any definitive facts on this, as I can't seem to find any.
If Perry Stone has Rabbis that he works with on spiritual matters, are they all Messianic Jewish Rabbis, some, or none?
I haven’t seen Messianic Jew, Rabbi Schneider, for example, on Christian television with either of them.
Maybe I just missed it...
“Messianic Jew” is an oxymoron.
Beg to differ.
Messianic Jew is an oxymoron
Not to a Messianic Jew.
If they don’t they darn well should
Problem is that they don’t keep it to themselves. They use that misleading title as a way to lure Jews to abandon their own faith without understanding that this is what they are doing. Nothing wrong with Christians, but when they set out to deceive they are as evil and duplicitous as any other fraudster.
You mean a Christian.
Beg on — because they are Christians.
You have been pinged because this may be of interest
to the Sabbatarian/Messianic community. Freepmail
DouglasKC if you want on or off this list.
John Hagee supports John Hagee.
All about the money.
Real Messianics do not have Rabbis.
Yeshua said do not be called Rabbi (great one) for only Yehova is great.
>> “Messianic Jew is an oxymoron.” <<
Your’s is a nonsensical statement.
Jew simply means of the House of Judah.
In Jerusalem the messianics out-number the foot draggers.
I follow Yah'shua, who is, was and will always be a All of the Apostles were Torah observant The wheels came off in 325CE at Nicea. Have a wonderful journey.
I'm not sure what god you follow. shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
Jewish Priest and Jewish King.
I follow Yah'shua, who is, was and will always be a
All of the Apostles were Torah observant
The wheels came off in 325CE at Nicea.
Have a wonderful journey.
 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel
The first Christians were all Jews.
It is disingenuous for you to say that some Jews object to the appellation “messianic Jews” but this is the Jews’ problem. The whole reason they took on that name is as part of a marketing strategy to convince Jews that they could continue to Jews while becoming Christians. For Jews this is not true, and therefore this is not the Jews’ problem.
Look at the history of so-called Messianic Jews. They did not exist until the 1960s under a former Jew called Moishe Rosen who evangelized among Jews. To this day they set up centers in Jewish neighborhoods and try to convince Jews that it is okay to be Christian and Jewish at the same time under the name “Messianic Jew.”
This is duplicitous fraud.
I don’t know what religion Muhammad was before he founded his own religion of Islam. If he was a Christian, though, this would not mean to me that a Christians for Islam movement deserves to have any credibility within the Christian faith.
Christianity and Judaism have been separate religions under the understanding of both religions for nearly 1800 years. It is only in the last 40 years that a group of Christians who had converted some Jews (e.g., Moishe Rosen) to their faith set out to adopt a name that they thought would make more Jews comfortable in abandoning their own religion and joining theirs.
It is nothing more than a frontal attack on Judaism and an effort to convert them to the Christian faith.
Okay, so if they're still around in 2060 or 2160 or 20060 one of you is right, if you're not the other one is.
Obviously, if Jews don't consider Messianic Jews Jewish, then they aren't considered Jewish by Jews and protestations to the contrary aren't going to change that.
But if Messianic Jews continue to exist without being assimilated or absorbed by the Christian or back into the Jewish community, some rethinking might be in order.
"Fraud" is pretty harsh in reference to anyone's religious views, though.
To be clear, I am not calling their religious beliefs fraudulent. Their nomenclature is.
I say this because they are Christians but they don’t call themselves Christians; instead, they call themselves Jews.
They call themselves messianic Jews in order to trick Jews into thinking that they can be Christians and Jews simultaneously, and in the Jewish faith this is impossible (in the Christian faith it has been impossible at least since the Council of Nicea in 325).
Hagee is, or was, of the idea of the “Replacement theory”, teaching that America is the new Israel.
He might just go and teach OT ideas, but he is a strictly NT only preacher.
LOL, there are those who disagree with that council even today, but history has shown that the punishment for such disagreement is total annihilation, so you're largely correct, because those that disagree are largely dead.
“Problem is that they dont keep it to themselves.”
Nor should they.
“They use that misleading title”
They believe Jesus is Messiah. TO them it is not misleading in any way. It is their truthful belief. They are correct.
“...as a way to lure Jews to abandon their own faith without understanding that this is what they are doing.”
Again, they believe Messiah is the fulfillment of Jewish faith. They are correct. They identify Jesus as Messiah. They are correct.
“Nothing wrong with Christians, but when they set out to deceive they are as evil and duplicitous as any other fraudster.”
They do not “set out to deceive”. That is your opinion, apparently. If you have facts to demonstrate objectively that they intended to deceive, post them and let’s take a look together.
I support their right to practice their religious beliefs, just as I support your right to reject those same beliefs, if you wish.
:-) know the force... it is strong on the forum.
Wholeheartedly agree. Jews for Jesus is an irreconcilable contradiction.
Including the apostles, among others.
Piranha, I don’t think you have ever met one in person. I did at, believe it or not, the NYC Conservative Meetup. If they are like the man I met, they on fire like you cannot believe, but quietly, humbly, and reverently, and a startling combination of both traditions.
“Jews for Jesus is an irreconcilable contradiction.”
I’ve met plenty of atheist, agnostic and Buddhist Jews. THAT to me seems a contradiction.
Jews who recognize Jesus as Messiah? Not so much a contradiction as a fulfillment from their point of view. I realize that the majority of Jews who believe in God and practice do not agree. If they did, JFJ wouldn’t have a mission.
I’m not going to argue theology with you, but, for anyone who knows what Judaism is, it is utterly irreconcilable. No amount of word games will ever change that. For Jews who are judaicly ignorant, believing in Jesus doesn’t mean fulfilling Judaism. It means abandoning Judaism for Christianity, no matter what they think or feel or want it to be.
Correct again. “Messianic Judaism “ is just the repackaged missionary scam that used to be called Jews for Jesus
Whoopdee frickin’ Doo. Your fascination with someone high on a J4J cocktail means nothing.
I support your right to believe as you wish, even though I disagree. And I wish you well.
Hi there “JewishRighter”
I’m a new student at studying Scriptures, so I still have a lot to learn in all these matters, but I’m curious as to what this means when you stated this:
“...For Jews who are judaicly ignorant, believing in Jesus doesnt mean fulfilling Judaism. It means abandoning Judaism for Christianity...”
I always thought the tribes of Judah and Israel were anticipating the arrival of “ha Mashiach/the Messiah”.
If that is true then, wouldn’t Yahushua ha Mashiach/Yeshua/Jesus the Christ be that fulfillment? ... and also ... wouldn’t that “not be” considered an abandonment at all of Judaism, but an actual fulfillment of, if they did accept Him as the true Messiah?
I worship YHVH, the ONE and ONLY. Whatever you do or think or whatever is between Him and you.
If one worships Jesus or through him to G-D or thinks flesh is divine or whatever, then that person is Christian and is no longer practicing Judaism. One who is a Jew and does that therefore breaks the covenant with G-D explicitly given to Moshe.
“Messianic Judaism” is just another man-made “religion” that will cease to exist when all know His name. That’s the divine beauty of Torah — it doesn’t change and it’s all there written for everyone to study and read for themselves.
>> “Christianity and Judaism have been separate religions under the understanding of both religions for nearly 1800 years” <<
Yeshua’s Way was Judaism brought to its fulfillment with the perfect sacrifice for all time; the sinless man, Yehova with us, paid the price for all who will believe.
Those who call themselves “Christians” but deny Sinai are just fooling themselves; their ‘worship’ is empty and feckless.
Pleas do not confuse the Catholic church and its spawn with the Way of Yeshua. They are as far apart as night and day.
“If that is true then, wouldnt Yahushua ha Mashiach/Yeshua/Jesus the Christ be that fulfillment? ... and also ... wouldnt that not be considered an abandonment at all of Judaism, but an actual fulfillment of, if they did accept Him as the true Messiah?”
Absolutely, positively, and vehemently NO.
Do you know why? Simply put, what you say is considered idolatry in Judaism. Study Torah, and it’s all laid out explicitly.
Oh, His Name is not “Yah” either. One day, all will know His name — and it certainly isn’t Yah or Yeshua or Jesus or Allah. That should be the first readily available clue why your premise is false.
>> “ there are those who disagree with that council even today, but history has shown that the punishment for such disagreement is total annihilation” <<
The punishment for participation in Nicea and its spawn is the Lake that burns! That is what Yeshua called the Synagogue of Satan.
The fact it has to be explained disturbs me greatly.
Yeshua (Jesus is a fake name) is the spirit of YHVH born in the body of a sinless man through a virgin, just as Isaiah prophesied.
One cannot get to YHVH except through belief in Yeshua’s perfect sacrifice.
His name is Yeshua because he yoshia his people (Israel)
That is what the angel Gabriel told Meriam.
“In Jerusalem the messianics out-number the foot draggers.”
More than 75% of Israel’s population is Jewish. There are now more Jews in Israel than were killed in the Holocaust. That’s a miracle. G-d’s work is right before you, and you call Jews “foot draggers.”
Keep telling yourself that. Torah says otherwise; there is no intermediary. We’re commanded as it is written.
So stop with the charade — “Messianic Judaism” is not Judaism. It’s Christianity with Hannukah candles and spiritually empty Passover Seders.
I actually met one in Chicago at a continuing legal education seminar at the Chicago bar association on litigating religious rights. He was a nice guy, passionate about his faith and soft spoken and polite. I don’t see what that has to do with the history of so-called Messianic Judaism, except that perhaps if his missionaries had been more forthright about who they are he may have remained a Jew. I assume you think it is a goldfish that he did not. For me it is is tragedy.
My phone changed “good thing” to “goldfish”. Sort of funny in a nonsensical way.
No, Torah doesn’t say otherwise!
Moses prophesied Yeashua in Deuteronomy 18.
The feasts are all about Yeshua in every way. They tell Yehova’s plan from Egypt to the new Jerusalem at the end of this millennium.
Your variety of Judaism, with its false ‘oral’ Torah is the charade. Only the Karaites have it correct.
You’re lucky. I had one in my family and had to put up with all the BS at family gatherings for years until he finally came back to his senses.