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Do John Hagee or Perry Stone support Messianic Jews and/or Messianic Jewish Rabbis?
1/7/2014 | Laissez-Faire Capitalist

Posted on 01/07/2014 1:55:57 PM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist

Just wondering if anyone had any definitive facts on this, as I can't seem to find any.

If Perry Stone has Rabbis that he works with on spiritual matters, are they all Messianic Jewish Rabbis, some, or none?


TOPICS: Charismatic Christian; Evangelical Christian; General Discusssion; History; Judaism; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: hagee; johnhagee; messianicjewishrabbi; messianicjews; perrystone; rabbischneider; schneider
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1 posted on 01/07/2014 1:55:57 PM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist; All

I haven’t seen Messianic Jew, Rabbi Schneider, for example, on Christian television with either of them.

Maybe I just missed it...


2 posted on 01/07/2014 1:58:32 PM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

“Messianic Jew” is an oxymoron.


3 posted on 01/07/2014 2:09:00 PM PST by sf4dubya (I rebelled against my parents by becoming a conservative.)
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To: sf4dubya

Beg to differ.


4 posted on 01/07/2014 2:20:34 PM PST by SkyDancer ("How Can People Ask Forgiveness If They Won't Forgive Others?")
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To: sf4dubya

“Messianic Jew” is an oxymoron

Not to a Messianic Jew.


5 posted on 01/07/2014 2:22:39 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (Truth is hate to those who hate the Truth)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

If they don’t they darn well should


6 posted on 01/07/2014 2:24:18 PM PST by wardaddy (wifey instructed me today to grow chapter president beard back again....i wonder why?)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
I cannot speak for Perry Stone but Hagee does not support Messianic Jews. He holds a dual covenant belief and does not believe the Jews need the gospel.

John Hagee Info
7 posted on 01/07/2014 2:26:41 PM PST by slumber1 (Fortune favors the bold!)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

Problem is that they don’t keep it to themselves. They use that misleading title as a way to lure Jews to abandon their own faith without understanding that this is what they are doing. Nothing wrong with Christians, but when they set out to deceive they are as evil and duplicitous as any other fraudster.


8 posted on 01/07/2014 2:28:48 PM PST by Piranha (Power is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have - Saul Alinsky)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

You mean a Christian.


9 posted on 01/07/2014 2:33:42 PM PST by sf4dubya (I rebelled against my parents by becoming a conservative.)
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To: SkyDancer

Beg on — because they are Christians.


10 posted on 01/07/2014 2:36:39 PM PST by sf4dubya (I rebelled against my parents by becoming a conservative.)
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To: whipitgood; Diego1618; Chris DeWeese; XeniaSt; AnnaZ; Ping-Pong; TXDeb; east_tennessean; SonOfEd; ..
    Hosted for free by: Pixilive

You have been pinged because this may be of interest
to the Sabbatarian/Messianic community. Freepmail
DouglasKC if you want on or off this list.

Add Me Please    Remove Me Please

11 posted on 01/07/2014 2:50:28 PM PST by DouglasKC
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

John Hagee supports John Hagee.

All about the money.


12 posted on 01/07/2014 2:54:47 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Real Messianics do not have Rabbis.

Yeshua said do not be called Rabbi (great one) for only Yehova is great.


13 posted on 01/07/2014 2:56:58 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: sf4dubya

>> ““Messianic Jew” is an oxymoron.” <<

.
Your’s is a nonsensical statement.

Jew simply means of the House of Judah.

In Jerusalem the messianics out-number the foot draggers.


14 posted on 01/07/2014 2:59:57 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: sf4dubya; SkyDancer; aMorePerfectUnion; Piranha
“Messianic Jew” is an oxymoron.

I'm not sure what god you follow.

I follow Yah'shua, who is, was and will always be a
Jewish Priest and Jewish King.

All of the Apostles were Torah observant
messianic Jews.

The wheels came off in 325CE at Nicea.

Have a wonderful journey.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
15 posted on 01/07/2014 3:01:24 PM PST by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your teaching is my delight.)
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To: slumber1
Hagee doesn't believe Yeshua!
Matthew 15:

[24] But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel

16 posted on 01/07/2014 3:08:59 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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i will NOT get sucked into religion threads .. i will NOT get sucked into religion threads .. i will NOT get sucked into religion threads ..

17 posted on 01/07/2014 3:11:12 PM PST by tomkat
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To: Piranha
"Problem is that they don’t keep it to themselves. They use that misleading title as a way to lure Jews to abandon their own faith without understanding that this is what they are doing."

I don't think they use a "misleading title." They are openly followers of Jesus, which you would find out in the first ten minutes of speaking with them. It's not as if they are putting up a false front in order to trick Jews into embracing Christianity. Some Jews object to the "messianic Jews" appellation, but that is THEIR problem.
18 posted on 01/07/2014 3:20:18 PM PST by Steve_Seattle
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To: sf4dubya

The first Christians were all Jews.


19 posted on 01/07/2014 3:22:59 PM PST by Steve_Seattle
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To: Steve_Seattle

It is disingenuous for you to say that some Jews object to the appellation “messianic Jews” but this is the Jews’ problem. The whole reason they took on that name is as part of a marketing strategy to convince Jews that they could continue to Jews while becoming Christians. For Jews this is not true, and therefore this is not the Jews’ problem.

Look at the history of so-called Messianic Jews. They did not exist until the 1960s under a former Jew called Moishe Rosen who evangelized among Jews. To this day they set up centers in Jewish neighborhoods and try to convince Jews that it is okay to be Christian and Jewish at the same time under the name “Messianic Jew.”

This is duplicitous fraud.


20 posted on 01/07/2014 3:29:30 PM PST by Piranha (Power is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have - Saul Alinsky)
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To: Steve_Seattle

I don’t know what religion Muhammad was before he founded his own religion of Islam. If he was a Christian, though, this would not mean to me that a Christians for Islam movement deserves to have any credibility within the Christian faith.

Christianity and Judaism have been separate religions under the understanding of both religions for nearly 1800 years. It is only in the last 40 years that a group of Christians who had converted some Jews (e.g., Moishe Rosen) to their faith set out to adopt a name that they thought would make more Jews comfortable in abandoning their own religion and joining theirs.

It is nothing more than a frontal attack on Judaism and an effort to convert them to the Christian faith.


21 posted on 01/07/2014 3:33:19 PM PST by Piranha (Power is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have - Saul Alinsky)
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To: Piranha; Steve_Seattle
They did not exist until the 1960s under a former Jew called Moishe Rosen who evangelized among Jews.

Okay, so if they're still around in 2060 or 2160 or 20060 one of you is right, if you're not the other one is.

Obviously, if Jews don't consider Messianic Jews Jewish, then they aren't considered Jewish by Jews and protestations to the contrary aren't going to change that.

But if Messianic Jews continue to exist without being assimilated or absorbed by the Christian or back into the Jewish community, some rethinking might be in order.

"Fraud" is pretty harsh in reference to anyone's religious views, though.

22 posted on 01/07/2014 3:40:06 PM PST by x
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To: x

To be clear, I am not calling their religious beliefs fraudulent. Their nomenclature is.

I say this because they are Christians but they don’t call themselves Christians; instead, they call themselves Jews.

They call themselves messianic Jews in order to trick Jews into thinking that they can be Christians and Jews simultaneously, and in the Jewish faith this is impossible (in the Christian faith it has been impossible at least since the Council of Nicea in 325).


23 posted on 01/07/2014 3:43:55 PM PST by Piranha (Power is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have - Saul Alinsky)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Hagee is, or was, of the idea of the “Replacement theory”, teaching that America is the new Israel.

He might just go and teach OT ideas, but he is a strictly NT only preacher.


24 posted on 01/07/2014 4:25:37 PM PST by Terry L Smith
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To: Piranha
Christians and Jews simultaneously, and in the Jewish faith this is impossible (in the Christian faith it has been impossible at least since the Council of Nicea in 325).

LOL, there are those who disagree with that council even today, but history has shown that the punishment for such disagreement is total annihilation, so you're largely correct, because those that disagree are largely dead.

25 posted on 01/07/2014 4:30:54 PM PST by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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To: Piranha

“Problem is that they don’t keep it to themselves.”

Nor should they.

“They use that misleading title”

They believe Jesus is Messiah. TO them it is not misleading in any way. It is their truthful belief. They are correct.

“...as a way to lure Jews to abandon their own faith without understanding that this is what they are doing.”

Again, they believe Messiah is the fulfillment of Jewish faith. They are correct. They identify Jesus as Messiah. They are correct.

“Nothing wrong with Christians, but when they set out to deceive they are as evil and duplicitous as any other fraudster.”

They do not “set out to deceive”. That is your opinion, apparently. If you have facts to demonstrate objectively that they intended to deceive, post them and let’s take a look together.

I support their right to practice their religious beliefs, just as I support your right to reject those same beliefs, if you wish.


26 posted on 01/07/2014 4:40:31 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (Truth is hate to those who hate the Truth)
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To: tomkat

:-) know the force... it is strong on the forum.


27 posted on 01/07/2014 4:41:48 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (Truth is hate to those who hate the Truth)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
oy vey .. lol
28 posted on 01/07/2014 4:51:34 PM PST by tomkat (you'll know when it's time)
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To: sf4dubya

Wholeheartedly agree. Jews for Jesus is an irreconcilable contradiction.


29 posted on 01/07/2014 5:07:39 PM PST by JewishRighter
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To: aMorePerfectUnion; sf4dubya

Including the apostles, among others.


30 posted on 01/07/2014 5:11:11 PM PST by firebrand
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To: Piranha

Piranha, I don’t think you have ever met one in person. I did at, believe it or not, the NYC Conservative Meetup. If they are like the man I met, they on fire like you cannot believe, but quietly, humbly, and reverently, and a startling combination of both traditions.


31 posted on 01/07/2014 5:19:18 PM PST by firebrand
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To: JewishRighter

“Jews for Jesus is an irreconcilable contradiction.”

I’ve met plenty of atheist, agnostic and Buddhist Jews. THAT to me seems a contradiction.

Jews who recognize Jesus as Messiah? Not so much a contradiction as a fulfillment from their point of view. I realize that the majority of Jews who believe in God and practice do not agree. If they did, JFJ wouldn’t have a mission.


32 posted on 01/07/2014 5:27:23 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (Truth is hate to those who hate the Truth)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

I’m not going to argue theology with you, but, for anyone who knows what Judaism is, it is utterly irreconcilable. No amount of word games will ever change that. For Jews who are judaicly ignorant, believing in Jesus doesn’t mean fulfilling Judaism. It means abandoning Judaism for Christianity, no matter what they think or feel or want it to be.


33 posted on 01/07/2014 5:42:42 PM PST by JewishRighter
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To: Piranha

Perfectly correct.


34 posted on 01/07/2014 5:45:14 PM PST by JewishRighter
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To: Piranha

Correct again. “Messianic Judaism “ is just the repackaged missionary scam that used to be called Jews for Jesus


35 posted on 01/07/2014 5:48:45 PM PST by JewishRighter
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To: firebrand; Piranha

Whoopdee frickin’ Doo. Your fascination with someone high on a J4J cocktail means nothing.


36 posted on 01/07/2014 5:58:25 PM PST by JewishRighter
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To: JewishRighter

I support your right to believe as you wish, even though I disagree. And I wish you well.


37 posted on 01/07/2014 6:17:45 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (Truth is hate to those who hate the Truth)
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To: JewishRighter

Hi there “JewishRighter”

I’m a new student at studying Scriptures, so I still have a lot to learn in all these matters, but I’m curious as to what this means when you stated this:
*******
“...For Jews who are judaicly ignorant, believing in Jesus doesn’t mean fulfilling Judaism. It means abandoning Judaism for Christianity...”
*******
I always thought the tribes of Judah and Israel were anticipating the arrival of “ha Mashiach/the Messiah”.

If that is true then, wouldn’t Yahushua ha Mashiach/Yeshua/Jesus the Christ be that fulfillment? ... and also ... wouldn’t that “not be” considered an abandonment at all of Judaism, but an actual fulfillment of, if they did accept Him as the true Messiah?


38 posted on 01/07/2014 6:53:30 PM PST by A child of Yah (I once was lost, but now I'm found, twas grace that set me free ... thank you LORD)
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To: UriĀ’el-2012

I worship YHVH, the ONE and ONLY. Whatever you do or think or whatever is between Him and you.

If one worships Jesus or through him to G-D or thinks flesh is divine or whatever, then that person is Christian and is no longer practicing Judaism. One who is a Jew and does that therefore breaks the covenant with G-D explicitly given to Moshe.

“Messianic Judaism” is just another man-made “religion” that will cease to exist when all know His name. That’s the divine beauty of Torah — it doesn’t change and it’s all there written for everyone to study and read for themselves.

Shalom.


39 posted on 01/07/2014 7:21:24 PM PST by sf4dubya (I rebelled against my parents by becoming a conservative.)
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To: Piranha; Steve_Seattle

>> “Christianity and Judaism have been separate religions under the understanding of both religions for nearly 1800 years” <<

.
Total nonsense!

Yeshua’s Way was Judaism brought to its fulfillment with the perfect sacrifice for all time; the sinless man, Yehova with us, paid the price for all who will believe.

Those who call themselves “Christians” but deny Sinai are just fooling themselves; their ‘worship’ is empty and feckless.

Pleas do not confuse the Catholic church and its spawn with the Way of Yeshua. They are as far apart as night and day.


40 posted on 01/07/2014 7:38:57 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: A child of Yah

“If that is true then, wouldn’t Yahushua ha Mashiach/Yeshua/Jesus the Christ be that fulfillment? ... and also ... wouldn’t that “not be” considered an abandonment at all of Judaism, but an actual fulfillment of, if they did accept Him as the true Messiah?”

Absolutely, positively, and vehemently NO.

Do you know why? Simply put, what you say is considered idolatry in Judaism. Study Torah, and it’s all laid out explicitly.

Oh, His Name is not “Yah” either. One day, all will know His name — and it certainly isn’t Yah or Yeshua or Jesus or Allah. That should be the first readily available clue why your premise is false.


41 posted on 01/07/2014 7:42:51 PM PST by sf4dubya (I rebelled against my parents by becoming a conservative.)
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To: Talisker; Piranha

>> “ there are those who disagree with that council even today, but history has shown that the punishment for such disagreement is total annihilation” <<

.
The punishment for participation in Nicea and its spawn is the Lake that burns! That is what Yeshua called the Synagogue of Satan.


42 posted on 01/07/2014 7:44:38 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: Piranha

Absolutely correct.

The fact it has to be explained disturbs me greatly.


43 posted on 01/07/2014 7:56:17 PM PST by sf4dubya (I rebelled against my parents by becoming a conservative.)
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To: sf4dubya; UriĀ’el-2012

Yeshua (Jesus is a fake name) is the spirit of YHVH born in the body of a sinless man through a virgin, just as Isaiah prophesied.

One cannot get to YHVH except through belief in Yeshua’s perfect sacrifice.

His name is Yeshua because he yoshia his people (Israel)

That is what the angel Gabriel told Meriam.


44 posted on 01/07/2014 7:56:23 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor

“In Jerusalem the messianics out-number the foot draggers.”

More than 75% of Israel’s population is Jewish. There are now more Jews in Israel than were killed in the Holocaust. That’s a miracle. G-d’s work is right before you, and you call Jews “foot draggers.”


45 posted on 01/07/2014 8:09:38 PM PST by sf4dubya (I rebelled against my parents by becoming a conservative.)
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To: editor-surveyor

Keep telling yourself that. Torah says otherwise; there is no intermediary. We’re commanded as it is written.

So stop with the charade — “Messianic Judaism” is not Judaism. It’s Christianity with Hannukah candles and spiritually empty Passover Seders.


46 posted on 01/07/2014 8:20:07 PM PST by sf4dubya (I rebelled against my parents by becoming a conservative.)
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To: firebrand

I actually met one in Chicago at a continuing legal education seminar at the Chicago bar association on litigating religious rights. He was a nice guy, passionate about his faith and soft spoken and polite. I don’t see what that has to do with the history of so-called Messianic Judaism, except that perhaps if his missionaries had been more forthright about who they are he may have remained a Jew. I assume you think it is a goldfish that he did not. For me it is is tragedy.


47 posted on 01/07/2014 8:22:27 PM PST by Piranha (Power is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have - Saul Alinsky)
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To: Piranha

My phone changed “good thing” to “goldfish”. Sort of funny in a nonsensical way.


48 posted on 01/07/2014 8:27:23 PM PST by Piranha (Power is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have - Saul Alinsky)
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To: sf4dubya

No, Torah doesn’t say otherwise!

Moses prophesied Yeashua in Deuteronomy 18.

The feasts are all about Yeshua in every way. They tell Yehova’s plan from Egypt to the new Jerusalem at the end of this millennium.

Your variety of Judaism, with its false ‘oral’ Torah is the charade. Only the Karaites have it correct.


49 posted on 01/07/2014 8:29:59 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: Piranha

You’re lucky. I had one in my family and had to put up with all the BS at family gatherings for years until he finally came back to his senses.


50 posted on 01/07/2014 8:31:34 PM PST by sf4dubya (I rebelled against my parents by becoming a conservative.)
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