Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Book Review: Break Out! by Joel Osteen
9Markd ^ | January 9, 2014 | Bob Johnson

Posted on 01/09/2014 5:36:35 AM PST by Gamecock

FULL TITLE: Book Review: Break Out! by Joel Osteen The chief problem of this book is that Osteen centers life on achieving the American Dream—success, prosperity and health

Joel Osteen, Break Out! 5 Keys to Go Beyond Your Barriers and Live an Extraordinary Life. FaithWords, 2013. 243 pages. $26.00

 

Detroit’s freeways are framed by dozens of billboards featuring happy, young, successful people enjoying a night of games and entertainment at one of the city’s casinos. The sleek, enticing images preach an alluring message: “Greatness awaits you in the casinos.” “You were born to be lucky.” On and on it goes. A closer look reveals the 1-800 number for Gambler’s Anonymous. And if you ever went to a casino, you would find that the reality does not quite match the billboard.

For years, potential casino operators attempted to get gambling legalized in Detroit. On three different occasions, they got an initiative on the ballot, but there was one pastor in the city who stood in their way. He knew what gambling would do to this city. He organized and educated, and each time the initiative was defeated. Then this pastor had a serious heart attack, and the initiative for casinos in Detroit was back in play. This time, the organizers did not have the pesky pastor to contend with. But they did something else. On this fourth attempt, the organizers gathered a number of pastors from Detroit together and offered them stock in the casinos in exchange for their support from the pulpits. They were told to sell this idea to the people as something that will be good for the economy and will save our city. The pastors did, and on the fourth try, the initiative passed.

Today you can visit the casinos. Go to the slot machines and watch the glazed-over faces of old people whose reverse mortgages freed up some money so they could buy tokens for the slot machines. Hour after hour, they pull the one-armed bandit, awaiting the glory the billboards promise. Fear sets in. They think, “If I get up from the machine, the next person will come and win.” So they sit, hour after hour, until their clothes are soiled and their tokens are gone. Next month, after the social security check arrives, some of them will be on the first bus back to try again.

And in case you haven’t heard, Detroit is bankrupt.

The promises of the prosperity gospel are like the billboards of Detroit’s casinos. It looks so good. It seems so appealing. One of its most influential voices is Joel Osteen, the pastor of Lakewood Church in Houston, Texas who recently released a new book called Break Out! If Disneyworld was a church, Joel Osteen would be the pastor. Break Out! is basically a combination of “When You Wish upon a Star” and “A Whole New World.”

The problem is, Joel is a pastor, and his sermons and books are presented as truth, not fairy tales, and thousands of people really believe what he says. Some may be in our churches.

THE MAIN MESSAGE

Break Out! is a collection of twenty-five chapters (presumably sermons) organized into five sections. I could not discern much difference between the first four sections: (1) Believe Bigger; (2) Consider God, Not Circumstances; (3) Pray God-sized Prayers; 4) Keep the Right Perspective. The chapters basically follow the formula of stating the principle, supporting it with a story, inserting a vague reference to the Bible, and closing with a few more stories and exhortations.

Joel’s message is clear: God helps those who help themselves. “Right now, something is looking for you. Something already has your name on it. As long as you’re doing your best to honor God and you have a heart to help others, an explosive blessing will find its way into your hands” (Ch. 4).[1] “If you stay on the high road and just keep being your best, you will see the hand of God at work in amazing ways” (Ch. 9). “But God is saying to you...If you only believe, I will turn the situation around. If you only believe, breakthroughs are headed your way. When you believe, the surpassing greatness of God’s power is released” (Ch. 13) “When God sees you do your part, He will do His part” (Ch. 16).

Faith is the dream in your heart. “God did not create you to be average….He created you to do something amazing. He’s put the seeds of greatness on the inside” (Ch. 25). But Osteen consistently portrays greatness as success in business, wealth, health, and overcoming addictions. Rarely, if ever, is “looking like Jesus” even mentioned.

If you listen carefully, Osteen is telling you that you can be your own Savior. Like the little engine that could, you can do it. You can do it. But the message of the Bible is that you cannot do it. That is why Christ came to this earth. He did what we could not do, dying on the cross to pay for your sins and rising from the grave to give you life if you repent and believe in him. If you keep telling people that they can do something they really can’t, you are not helping people. You are putting them in bondage.

In the fifth section, “Don’t Settle for Good Enough” there are some moments where Joel says some things that could have some value. The problem is that they not only sit in a context of other errors but they blatantly contradict what he says earlier in the book.

THE MAIN PROBLEMS

The chief problem of this book is that Osteen centers life on achieving the American Dream—success, prosperity and health. But the Bible never presents the Christian life like this. Instead, our lives are centered upon Christ and the gospel. This chief problem is reflected in these other serious problems.

1. Break Out! constantly distorts the Bible at a basic, factual level.

First, Break Out! constantly distorts the Bible at a basic, factual level. In chapter 7, Osteen recounts the story of Moses leading the children of Israel out of Egypt, through the desert, in order to get to the Promised Land. He claims that when Moses became discouraged along the way, God asked him what he was holding in his hand. He goes on to tell the story of how Moses threw down his rod, which God turned into a snake. The problem is, this did not happen when Moses was leading the children of Israel out of Egypt, but in Exodus 4 when Moses was at the burning bush.

Also in chapter 7, Osteen retells the story of the lepers who went in search of food from the Syrians in 2 Kings 7. He claims that the Bible says (and he puts this in quotes), “As they marched toward the enemy, God multiplied the sound of their footsteps and caused them to sound like a vast army.”  The text simply does not say this. This twisting of the facts fits Joel’s point of believing in yourself and seeing God do amazing things. But how can you trust Osteen to interpret the text correctly if he cannot get the simple facts of the story right?

There’s plenty more of this, but one of the most egregious examples of twisting Scripture is in chapter 10. Osteen claims that when Job was in the midst of his adversity he said, “God, I know You have granted me favor.” He presents this as a bold declaration of faith in the favor of God upon his life in the midst of a trial. But in Job 10, Job is bitterly complaining to God. Yes, Job does say in verse 12 that, “You have granted me life and steadfast love, and your care has preserved my spirit.” But Job was talking about what God had previously done for him, only to now crush him and destroy him. Job was not declaring a word of faith, he was screaming out at the seeming injustice of God for giving him life and blessing, only to take it all away. In verses 18-19 Job says, “Why did you bring me out from the womb? Would that I had died before any eye had seen me and were as though I had not been, carried from the womb to the grave.” At that moment, Job was not exactly feeling the X-factor.

2. Break Out! is full of bad theology.

Second, Break Out! is full of bad theology. Osteen presents the stories in the Bible as being all about us, instead of about Christ. The great hope of the Bible is in what Christ has done, but in Break Out! the great hope is in all that we can do. If you speak it, it will happen. The still small voice in you is God giving you insider information (Ch. 10).

Additionally, problems are never in our hearts. Instead, our problems come from our failure to believe in ourselves (see Chs. 13 and 15). “You have the seeds of greatness on the inside” (Ch. 20). Fighting the good fight of faith is believing in yourself. Osteen claims in chapter 22 that “these present sufferings” that Paul speaks about in Romans 8:18 are not “accidents, tragedy, cancer, injustice or abuse.” He offers no support for this claim, but just says it. According to Osteen, the good work that God is doing in your life and has promised to complete is seeing your visions of greatness come true. However, in the Bible, God’s good work in us is progressively forming the character of Christ in the life of every one of his children.

Osteen’s theology has no room for sin. In fact, in twenty five chapters, the word “sin” is not even mentioned. Therefore, you should not be surprised that “the cross” of Christ, “gospel,” and “repent” are nowhere to be found either. At the very end of the book, Osteen does encourage his readers to pray a prayer of faith in order to establish a relationship with God through Christ. The prayer that he writes out does mention “sins” and does have the concept of repentance in it. The problem is that for twenty five chapters, we are led to believe that all our problems either are outside of us or result from our failure to believe in our own greatness.

3. Break Out! is marked by blatant contradictions.

Third, Break Out! is marked by blatant contradictions. In chapter 12, “Remind God of What He Said,” Osteen says that prayer is “Not nagging God, not begging God, but in faith going to God and reminding him over and over what He promised you.” But a few lines later, he says “You have to be a pest when it comes to reminding God what he promised you.” So, we are not supposed to be a nag, but we are supposed to be a pest?

In chapter 13, “Power of Believing,” Osteen talks about all of the great things that will happen if you only believe. According to Osteen, God says, “If you only believe I will turn the situation around. If you only believe, breakthroughs are headed your way.” But in chapter 24 Osteen claims that believing is not enough. You have to “put actions behind your faith.” For example, “...when He sees you bypass the cookie jar because you’ve been believing you’ll lose weight—that is when extraordinary things will happen.” But then in chapter 25 Osteen claims that if we give up on a dream, that does not mean God gives up on it. In fact, “You will not go to your grave without seeing your dreams come to pass—even the secret petitions of your heart.”

So let’s get this straight. All we have to do is believe. Everything happens when you believe. Except that you have to put action to your belief. But, don’t worry, if you stop believing, God won’t stop believing in you, and he will make it all happen anyway. So, does the “break out” happen because of my faith, my action, or neither, because God was going to do it anyway?

WHY THIS MATTERS

In Break Out!, God is not glorious in majesty; he is your personal genie and your voice inside. The real power belongs to you. When you speak, things happen. When you believe, things come true.

Osteen’s twisting of Scripture to encourage and inspire greatness comes at a great cost, the cost of truth. The truth is, I cannot be my best. If I cannot be my best, and therefore do my part, what hope can I have that God will do his part?

These present sufferings do include abuse, rape, terminal disease, tragedy, accidents, personal bankruptcy, miscarriages, corrupt officials, and being persecuted for the faith. Joel has no message of hope or comfort for people in these. His principles and exhortations create more laws and commands that are rooted in our determination, but have nothing to do with the gospel of grace. In the end, we are left to save ourselves from our unfulfilled dreams.

For the faithful pastor who does not have an audience the size of a stadium, or the believer who never makes it to CEO, Osteen’s message of “hope” is actually one of condemnation. Either you do not dream enough or something is wrong with your faith.

While his message is popular because you are your own savior, it simply is not true. Pastor, some of your people may like what he has to say and may feel that he is a nice guy with a positive message in a negative world. The problem is, when we accept his horrible theology, our entire understanding of Scripture is warped.

Joel probably is America’s pastor. Sadly, Break Out! pastors people to be narcissistic, biblically illiterate, and theologically confused. In other words, Break Out! tells you to suspend biblical discernment and enjoy your day at Disneyworld.

So just keep putting in your tokens. Keep believing and declaring that you have already won. The machine just hasn’t realized it yet.

Bob Johnson is senior pastor of Cornerstone Baptist Church in Roseville, Michigan.

[1] I read the book on my phone, so I’ll provide chapter instead of page references. 


TOPICS: Current Events
KEYWORDS: ybpdln
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-54 next last

1 posted on 01/09/2014 5:36:35 AM PST by Gamecock
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: markomalley; DocRock; del4hope; Alex Murphy; Gamecock; Dr. Eckleburg; jude24; Ottofire; fishtank; ..
YBPDLN* Ping List Ping!

The YBPDLN Ping List is generally published infrequently, but based on the exploits of the megachurch pastors posts can spike for a season. If you would like on or off of this list please FReepmail me.

Because 18,000 People Can’t be wrong!

*YBPDLN=Your Best Purpose Driven Life Now

2 posted on 01/09/2014 5:39:07 AM PST by Gamecock (Celebrating 20,000 posts of dubious quality.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Gamecock

That’s a nice graphic you’ve got there, Gamecock!


3 posted on 01/09/2014 5:43:57 AM PST by Ken522
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Gamecock
....For the faithful pastor who does not have an audience the size of a stadium, or the believer who never makes it to CEO, Osteen’s message of “hope” is actually one of condemnation. Either you do not dream enough or something is wrong with your faith. While his message is popular because you are your own savior, it simply is not true. Pastor, some of your people may like what he has to say and may feel that he is a nice guy with a positive message in a negative world. The problem is, when we accept his horrible theology, our entire understanding of Scripture is warped.

Joel probably is America’s pastor. Sadly, Break Out! pastors people to be narcissistic, biblically illiterate, and theologically confused. In other words, Break Out! tells you to suspend biblical discernment and enjoy your day at Disneyworld. So just keep putting in your tokens. Keep believing and declaring that you have already won. The machine just hasn’t realized it yet.

Excellent review - thanks for the ping!

4 posted on 01/09/2014 5:48:05 AM PST by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Gamecock

Great article about those “mega-pastors” who want to create people who are “narcissistic, biblically illiterate, and theologically confused.” LOL


5 posted on 01/09/2014 6:04:24 AM PST by savagesusie (Right Reason According to Nature = Just Law)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Gamecock
4) Keep the Right Perspective

Does this section include the "right perspective" for Mrs. Osteen's temper tantrum in first class on a flight to Aspen that got her kicked off the plane? How dare they make her late to the ski slopes?

Like most mega-churches, this one is a sham that dupes well-intentioned people into donating to support the minister's affluent lifestyle.

It's fleecing the flock in the name of God.


 

6 posted on 01/09/2014 6:19:25 AM PST by peyton randolph (Proverbs 13:20)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Gamecock

Smile. Just smile, regardless how ridiculous you seem, just keep smiling.


7 posted on 01/09/2014 6:24:24 AM PST by onedoug
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Gamecock

for later


8 posted on 01/09/2014 6:26:07 AM PST by Doctor 2Brains
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: peyton randolph
Does this section [4) Keep the Right Perspective] include the "right perspective" for Mrs. Osteen's temper tantrum in first class on a flight to Aspen that got her kicked off the plane? How dare they make her late to the ski slopes?

VICTORIA OSTEEN: FLIGHT RISK
Pastor's (Joel Osteen's)wife involved in flight disturbance
Wife of Joel Osteen Asked to Leave Plane
Osteen family leaves plane after dispute (pastor's wife didn't follow a fa's instructions)
Wife of Joel Osteen Asked to Leave Plane
Motion filed in suit against Osteen's wife
Lawyer asks judge to reveal Osteens' wealth
Victoria Osteen: Mother First, Pastor Second
Osteen's Wife on Trial for Temper Tantrum
Trial to Begin in Suit Against Prominent Pastor's Wife
Victoria Osteen defended as "excitable and expressive"
Pastor's Wife Embroiled in Civil Trial Addresses Lakewood Church Members [Vicky Osteen Watch]

9 posted on 01/09/2014 6:28:06 AM PST by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Gamecock
"In Break Out!, God is not glorious in majesty; he is your personal genie and your voice inside. The real power belongs to you. When you speak, things happen. When you believe, things come true."

Which is exactly the way half the Independent churches in this country present the doctrine of "Faith Alone", not really anything all that different.

10 posted on 01/09/2014 6:35:23 AM PST by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Alex Murphy
You have to be a pest when it comes to reminding God what he promised you.

1 Kings 18:25 Then Elijah said to the prophets of Baal, “Choose for yourselves one bull and prepare it first, for you are many, and call upon the name of your god, but put no fire to it.” 26 And they took the bull that was given them, and they prepared it and called upon the name of Baal from morning until noon, saying, “O Baal, answer us!” But there was no voice, and no one answered. And they limped around the altar that they had made. 27 And at noon Elijah mocked them, saying, “Cry aloud, for he is a god. Either he is musing, or he is relieving himself, or he is on a journey, or perhaps he is asleep and must be awakened.” 28 And they cried aloud and cut themselves after their custom with swords and lances, until the blood gushed out upon them. 29 And as midday passed, they raved on until the time of the offering of the oblation, but there was no voice. No one answered; no one paid attention.
Yup. Ya gotta be a pest.
11 posted on 01/09/2014 6:38:10 AM PST by Gamecock (Celebrating 20,000 posts of dubious quality.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Rashputin

The Reformed formulation of Faith Alone does not mean faith that is alone. It is the subject of the faith, Jesus, that saves us.

Sadly many churches don’t connect the dots on that one.


12 posted on 01/09/2014 6:40:36 AM PST by Gamecock (Celebrating 20,000 posts of dubious quality.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Alex Murphy

I wonder if she gets special attention from the TSA these days?


13 posted on 01/09/2014 6:41:18 AM PST by Gamecock (Celebrating 20,000 posts of dubious quality.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Gamecock
"Sadly many churches don’t connect the dots on that one."

You got that right and I think that's why nitwit false teachers like Olsteen get so big. They know that a whole lot of churches don't "connect the dots" and realize that they can mix in a lot of feel good self-help language and ideas to draw the people exposed to misinformation to them with promises and glitz.

14 posted on 01/09/2014 6:50:38 AM PST by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Gamecock

The Bible is clear “the love of money is the root of all evil”...that love of money is called greed. Joel Osteen is a great encourager of the positive and I like him a lot. Money in and of itself is not evil, just the greed of it. Osteen is promoting a positive outlook and encouraging his people to look to God as their source, and that is Biblical!

God says in many places that he will ‘meet all of your needs according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus’, and he also says ‘be it to you according to your faith’. God also says if you use a talent it will develop into ten more, etc....learn what the Bible says and quit going off half-cocked like a demonic nutcase.

Now, if you want a pessimistic outlook the devil will be happy to accommodate you...in fact, you are promoting that pessimistic outlook that life is ‘woe is me’, and God will not bless you, BULLCRAP.

And as for Mrs. Osteen, we all have faults and the Bible says “no one is without sin” (paraphrased). Of course the damning evil ones will always condemn the Christian for having a bad day or losing their temper. GET A LIFE...you obviously have never read the Bible. God has already forgiven her, but obviously you can’t and isn’t that the way with all self-righteous idiots.

As for CONDEMNERS...YOU ARE THE WORST, at least Joel Osteen uplifts his congregation, and watchers....I do hold issue with some televangelists, but not an encourager who is helping many to look up ‘our salvation draws nigh’. God is looking for happy givers not whiners and complainers...in fact, the Israelites did NOT enter the Promise Land, because of their WHINING AND COMPLAINING! That’s the message Osteen is trying to get across, but you are looking for something to complain about, too bad for you and no wonder you are so unhappy about everyone who doesn’t meet your perverted view of Christianity.


15 posted on 01/09/2014 6:54:50 AM PST by Kackikat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Kackikat

You don’t mind if I just do not like the man do you? I have listened to him and there is just something that I find about him that causes me to avoid him.

LLS


16 posted on 01/09/2014 7:29:28 AM PST by LibLieSlayer (FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS! BETTER DEAD THAN RED!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Kackikat

Sure he uplifts them.

They don’t hear about sin and the Christ’s shed blood.

Instead he is a Peid Piper of fluff.

Satan rejoiced when Osteen denied Jesus on national TV and he rejoices when a poor lost soul forks over money for a “spiritual” book than fails to clearly lay out redemption through Jesus.


17 posted on 01/09/2014 8:46:15 AM PST by Gamecock (Celebrating 20,000 posts of dubious quality.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: LibLieSlayer

Freedom is the right to dislike any one you want, however it is evil to lie about someone, and with that I will take issue, my right.


18 posted on 01/09/2014 12:49:58 PM PST by Kackikat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Gamecock

The pied piper is the liar who spreds untrue gossip...you.

Joel Osteen has never denied Jesus Christ, and gives an offer at the end of every broadcast for listeners to accept Jesus for Salvation.

How many of Osteen’s books have you actually read cover to cover, or is some fire and brimstone liar preaching like Obama’s Pastor, who ends up condemning anyone who doesn’t agree with him/her.

Joel Osteen has brought more people to the Lord through a positive message than most Pastors do in their entire life.


19 posted on 01/09/2014 12:53:04 PM PST by Kackikat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Kackikat; Gamecock; Aquinasfan
Joel Osteen has never denied Jesus Christ, and gives an offer at the end of every broadcast for listeners to accept Jesus for Salvation....Joel Osteen has brought more people to the Lord through a positive message than most Pastors do in their entire life.

LARRY KING: If you believe you have to believe in Christ? They're wrong, aren't they?
JOEL OSTEEN: Well, I don't know if I believe they're wrong. I believe here's what the Bible teaches and from the Christian faith this is what I believe. But I just think that only God with judge a person's heart. I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don't know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don't know. I've seen their sincerity. So I don't know. I know for me, and what the Bible teaches, I want to have a relationship with Jesus.
-- Larry King Live, June 20, 2005
Aquinasfan: Can someone tell me what Joel is about in 20 words or less?
Alex Murphy: Sheesh - that's easy. The real challenge is to tell what Joel is about in 21 words or more.
-- Nov 5, 2007 exchange, on the thread Joel Olsteen Joins With Catholics To Convert Confused Protestants
JOEL OSTEEN: THEOLOGICAL GIANT
Does Joel Osteen Not Know, or Does He Not Care? [On Mormonism]
Joel Osteen says Lakewood is evangelical, not political
Joel Osteen blesses Houston's new (gay) mayor Annise Parker
Joel Osteen Heresy Gauge
Depart From Me! I Never Knew You, Eaters of Bacon!
Become a Better You: Reflections on Joel Osteen's Latest Book
The Gospel according to Joel Osteen
Joel Osteen and Why Theology Matters, Again
Joel Olsteen Joins With Catholics To Convert Confused Protestants
Joel Osteen Heresy Gauge
Joel Osteen converts to MORMONISM?
Christian Author Defends Joel Osteen's New Book 'Become A Better You'
For Joel Osteen, Theology is Optional
Joel Osteen and “Joel-Likeness”
Faith & The Gospel [Michael Horton Takes On Osteen With Link To 60 Minutes Clip of Horton)
Joel Osteen Answers His Critics - Tells Byron Pitts "We're Not Perfect"
Your Best Life Now: a review of Joel Osteen's best-seller
Controversial Author to Sue Streaming Faith for Dropping Show [Long, Osteen, Dollar, Jakes]
Interview: Joel Osteen - Called to Give Hope
Osteen inspires, draws crowds
America's 'Most Watched Pastor' Osteen Hits Big on iTunes
Interview: Joel Osteen on the Future of America's Churches and Him Pastoring One
Joel Osteen Tops Most Influential Christians in America
Donors provide a 'Better Christmas' for more than 25 [via Osteen's "Best Life Now" book]
Play a game with Joel Osteen
Does God want you to be rich? [TIME cover story re megachurches and prosperity gospels]
Rev-ved up over Joel: Country's hottest preacher hits Hub
Linked laugh for the weekend: Joel Osteen's comments on suffering
Joel Osteen's Journey to the Troops [Request came from the Pentagon}
JOEL OSTEEN ISSUES APOLOGY
CNN LARRY KING LIVE Interview With Joel Osteen Transcript
Simple tips on vastly improving your personal relationship with God.

20 posted on 01/09/2014 1:08:50 PM PST by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Gamecock

Wow... I had no idea.


21 posted on 01/09/2014 1:11:32 PM PST by LibLieSlayer (FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS! BETTER DEAD THAN RED!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Kackikat

No problem with me... I just don’t like the man... something... just can’t put my finger on it.


22 posted on 01/09/2014 1:12:11 PM PST by LibLieSlayer (FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS! BETTER DEAD THAN RED!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Kackikat

Did so.


23 posted on 01/09/2014 1:15:24 PM PST by Gamecock (Celebrating 20,000 posts of dubious quality.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Alex Murphy

“I believe here’s what the Bible teaches and from the Christian faith this is what I believe.” was in Joel Osteen’s answer to Larry King (2005) Your quote.

Now, he left judgment up to God from a person’s heart, so what’s your beef? I see no conflict in his belief and his preaching...as he noted that he believes the Bible, and that Jesus Christ is what the Bible Teaches. God allows us to ask Jesus into our heart without a preacher, a catechism, or a walk down the aisle. And yes, Baptism is necessary, but other than that, the person is saved for believing that Jesus is the son of God and shed his blood for our sins, and asking forgiveness, it’s simple, not complicated.


24 posted on 01/09/2014 1:20:21 PM PST by Kackikat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Rashputin

“Which is exactly the way half the Independent churches in this country present the doctrine of “Faith Alone”, not really anything all that different.”

Wow.


25 posted on 01/09/2014 1:26:15 PM PST by right way right (What's it gonna take? (guillotines?))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: LibLieSlayer

He’s a snake oil salesman.
That’s what you have your finger on.

His books are snake oil.


26 posted on 01/09/2014 1:28:20 PM PST by right way right (What's it gonna take? (guillotines?))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Gamecock

You may want to consider reading the book of JAMES, both Chapters one, two, and three...And speaking of the tongue, and learning what real religion (Christianity) is; as God sees it, so don’t forget to read James 1:26,27 “ watching your tongue, and visiting the widows and orphans in their distress”(paraphrased), so how many have you visited today?. We already know how you use your tongue.
God bless you with wisdom for the time is short.


27 posted on 01/09/2014 1:30:51 PM PST by Kackikat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Kackikat; Gamecock
...the person is saved for believing that Jesus is the son of God and shed his blood for our sins, and asking forgiveness, it’s simple, not complicated.

It's simple, yes. It's what you wrote? Uh, no.

28 posted on 01/09/2014 1:50:08 PM PST by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Gamecock

29 posted on 01/09/2014 2:35:53 PM PST by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kackikat; Alex Murphy
You may want to consider reading the book of JAMES, both Chapters one, two, and three...

I've done so.

And speaking of the tongue, and learning what real religion (Christianity) is; as God sees it, so don’t forget to read James 1:26,27 “ watching your tongue, and visiting the widows and orphans in their distress”(paraphrased), so how many have you visited today?.

Actually, that classified. What I do is between me and God.

Matthew 6:2 Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 3But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

We already know how you use your tongue.

That's right. To call out those who deny Christ.

God bless you with wisdom for the time is short.

Speaking of which, Joel seems to think the time is short, cause he is trying to rake in as much money as possible!

osteen photo Presentation1_zps63936a80.jpg

I remember when Billy Graham went out on crusades her didn't charge a dime. But hey, there's no business like show soul business!

30 posted on 01/09/2014 3:07:54 PM PST by Gamecock (Celebrating 20,000 posts of dubious quality.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Gamecock

bump


31 posted on 01/09/2014 3:08:57 PM PST by GeronL (Extra Large Cheesy Over-Stuffed Hobbit)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Gamecock

I went to a Jehovah’s Witness convention once. Pretty entertaining sometimes, boring in other places. They had sack lunches for cheap at intermission, the guy who invited me paid for mine.

and no I am not JW


32 posted on 01/09/2014 3:10:19 PM PST by GeronL (Extra Large Cheesy Over-Stuffed Hobbit)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: GeronL

I haven’t met a whole bunch of JWs. There was a married couple I once knew however, and they were stand-up folks.


33 posted on 01/09/2014 5:54:36 PM PST by Gamecock (Celebrating 20,000 posts of dubious quality.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Gamecock

They all seemed meek and kind, except they used the regional convention to let loose a bit, a little bit of fire and brimstone stuff and they even had a bit of a play.


34 posted on 01/09/2014 6:12:46 PM PST by GeronL (Extra Large Cheesy Over-Stuffed Hobbit)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Gamecock

Where are all the Joel Osteen apologists at? The poster who posts the daily Osteen email does not want debate on his posts. I guess that bunch likes the prosperity/feel good gospel but not enough to debate it.


35 posted on 01/09/2014 8:06:25 PM PST by longhorn too
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Gamecock; a fool in paradise; Slings and Arrows
. “God did not create you to be average….He created you to do something amazing."

Only amazing? Not awesome or unbelievable?

36 posted on 01/09/2014 8:08:59 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: fishtank

Dupping or duping?


37 posted on 01/09/2014 8:11:25 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Revolting cat!

haha....

... not my graphic, though


38 posted on 01/10/2014 7:36:24 AM PST by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: Gamecock

Time spent in prayer can save souls. Time spent complaining accomplishes nothing.
No more comments, as the Bible says ‘cast not your pearls before swine lest they turn and rend you’, and so I will say no more to you from here on.


39 posted on 01/10/2014 12:49:25 PM PST by Kackikat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Kackikat
Pointing out heretical teachers can save souls. Why do you defend someone who denies Christ?


40 posted on 01/10/2014 1:12:03 PM PST by Gamecock (Celebrating 20,000 posts of dubious quality.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: Kackikat
"Time spent in prayer can save souls"

Nope...That is man-centered doctrine and is misleading. Jesus Christ saves souls - not what man may or may not do. Christ alone through faith alone, and that is a gift from God.

41 posted on 01/11/2014 7:03:09 AM PST by lupie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: lupie

Evidently you skipped Ephesians Ch 6 in your reading of ‘pray in the spirit always’ sheesh...Pleas do not try to tell me about Jesus, because obviously he is not your guide.


42 posted on 01/11/2014 7:26:20 AM PST by Kackikat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: lupie

Oh and you may want to ask the “Holy Spirit” for some understanding of the Word for it says “He will teach us the deep things of God”...Prayer and Praise work, but of course you would not understand that, being the all seeing God you think you are...sad. Just another self-righteous know it all. READ, STUDY, PRAY. It gets rid of ignorance.


43 posted on 01/11/2014 7:29:25 AM PST by Kackikat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: Gamecock; lupie

Ephesians Ch 6:10-20 gives a glimpse into the Spiritual Warfare needed to keep your soul, and help others to find Jesus for theirs in this spiritual battle.

The KJV is not the original Scriptures so try to keep an open mind, those were written in the Greek and Hebrew, and the NIV was translated directly from those for clarity.

Although most versions say the same thing, the KJV is more poetic due to it’s Old English:

Ephesians 6:10-20: quoted below

“10 Finally, be strong in the Lord, and in the strength of His might. 11 Put on the full armor of God, that you may be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore, take up the full armor of God, that you may be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.

14 Stand firm therefore, having girded your loins with truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 in addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming missiles of the evil one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. 18 With all prayer and petition pray at all times in the Spirit, and with this in view, be on the alert with all perseverance and petition for all the saints, 19 and pray on my behalf, that utterance may be given to me in the opening of my mouth, to make known with boldness the mystery of the gospel, 20 for which I am an ambassador in chains; that in proclaiming it I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.”

PRAYER IS SPIRITUAL WARFARE.

Now, you should spend more time studying the Word and learning what it really says, than trying to convince others about who is saved and who is not....I see nothing in any of your conversations that contain GRACE and LOVE, or even godly admonition, it’s mostly demonic, and we know that God is Love not hate.

God loves all of us...so be careful what you say about those trying to spread that love and truth. I place you both at the foot of the cross in prayer for God’s blessings. I pray for my enemies, and you know what the Bible says about that, right?


44 posted on 01/11/2014 7:54:59 AM PST by Kackikat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: Kackikat

Let’s stay on subject.

Why are you supporting a guy who goes on national TV and denies the exclusivity of Jesus?


45 posted on 01/11/2014 8:17:25 AM PST by Gamecock (Celebrating 20,000 posts of dubious quality.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: Kackikat
God loves all of us

Malachi 2 “I have loved you,” says the Lord. bBut you say, “How have you loved us?” “Is not Esau cJacob’s brother?” declares the Lord. “Yet I have loved Jacob 3 but Esau I have hated. I have laid waste his hill country and left his heritage to jackals of the desert.”

Ooops! Evidently He hates some people.

46 posted on 01/11/2014 8:25:01 AM PST by Gamecock (Celebrating 20,000 posts of dubious quality.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: Gamecock

We are now under the NEW Testament, and John 3:16 explains it to you.


47 posted on 01/11/2014 11:35:10 AM PST by Kackikat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: Gamecock

Maybe you should read your own links that you post:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1434686/posts


48 posted on 01/11/2014 11:38:55 AM PST by Kackikat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: Kackikat

An apology?

HE. DENIED. JESUS.

Any preacher who ever appeared on Larry King was asked the same question. This was no surprise. Any Christian should answer the question with certainty. And here the “pastor” of the largest “church” in America waffled.


49 posted on 01/11/2014 12:32:09 PM PST by Gamecock (Celebrating 20,000 posts of dubious quality.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: Kackikat
No, John 3:16 does not prove God loves all. If you keep reading it unfolds that God loves those who ever believes.

Plus if you want to fracture the canon of Scripture, we can still find God hates some in Romans.

BTW, the Old Testament Saints were saved the same way as we are. Just as described in John 3.

50 posted on 01/11/2014 12:41:48 PM PST by Gamecock (Celebrating 20,000 posts of dubious quality.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-54 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson