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Rejecting God Because of Hell Is Illogical
Christian Post ^ | 01/09/2014 | BY DAN DELZELL

Posted on 01/09/2014 9:09:07 AM PST by SeekAndFind

"I could never believe in a God who sends people to hell." This common objection, while sincere, is nevertheless untrue and illogical. How can you say it is "untrue" Dan if someone really means it? This is how. Just walk through the reasoning with me if you will.

First of all, think about what the person is saying. He is saying that if the biblical teaching about heaven and hell is correct, then he would never believe in a God who allows people to spend eternity in a place of suffering. This rationale is both illogical and irrational. His objection is based on a premise that the biblical teaching about hell is correct, which is a premise he already rejects.

It's like saying, "I could never believe in a God who sends people to a place which I am convinced doesn't exist." Huh? How do you know you could never believe such a thing when you do not yet even believe in hell, yet alone believe in Christ?

An unbeliever is someone who does not believe in Jesus as Savior. And I have yet to meet an unbeliever who is convinced that hell as described in the Bible is real. So an unbeliever's lack of faith has to do with a lack of faith in Jesus, rather than a lack of faith in hell. He is first an unbeliever in Jesus, and only later an unbeliever in hell.

We can all agree that the following statement is true: "The biblical description regarding hell and those who go there is either true or false." So the objection is that the person would never believe in God if the biblical description is true. I disagree, and I think you will too in a couple minutes. Here is why.

The biblical teaching, as well as the personal experience of Christians, is that a believer is given a new heart and begins to love God because of what Christ has done to save his soul. Millions of Christians believe in God while also believing the difficult doctrine that God sends people to hell. It is not only possible to hold these two positions, but many Christians accept both of them simultaneously.

So it is possible. It does happen. I, for one, believe in Christ as my Savior, and also in the reality of hell as described in the Bible.

It is irrational to say, "I could never believe in a God who sends people to hell." It's like saying, "Even if millions of others claim to believe in both Christ and hell, I could never believe such a thing myself." That is untrue. You could believe it.

Let's say you were convinced that both heaven and hell are real places where people spend eternity. If you were convinced of that fact, it would be absurd for you to say, "I would rather go to hell than believe in God." No you wouldn't. You don't really mean it. Five minutes in hell would convince you otherwise. If you truly believed you were going to spend eternity in the same place of misery and agony where you spent the previous five minutes, you wouldn't stick to your unbelief and your rejection of Christ. You would know at that point that hell is real, and you would want any way out.

There is no way you would choose to stay in hell "just to prove a point." It wouldn't happen. You would become a believer very quickly. And you would see that you can indeed believe in a God who sends people to hell. There is no one who despises his soul so much that he would choose eternal punishment in hell over eternal pleasure with God in heaven.

And there is no one, except Satan, who hates God so much that he would spend five minutes in hell only to say, "I still don't want that new heart, and that new life, and that peace in paradise." It simply isn't logical or rational to say that a person would stick to this flawed position "just to make a point." In that situation, you would swallow your pride, bow your knee to your Creator, and accept Christ as your Savior and your only path to paradise.

If you are going to reject God's love for you as demonstrated in the death of His Son on the cross, it is because you are choosing to reject Jesus as the Messiah and Savior. But it is not because of what the Bible teaches about hell. People only think that is one reason they don't believe in God, but it isn't. It is not a logical position to claim such a thing. It is completely unreasonable. Man loves his personal comfort way too much to stick to that position "just to make a point." It wouldn't happen. If he could get it, man would definitely ask God for a lifeline after just five minutes in hell.

But of course the Bible does not offer a shred of hope that such a lifeline will be available to people after they are sent to hell. Once a person enters hell, reality quickly sinks in. People then see that their perception while on earth was terribly wrong. They see that they could indeed have previously believed in a God who sends people to hell, even though at the time they may have sincerely said they "could never believe in such a God."

Do you know why Jesus spoke at least as much about hell as He did about heaven? Because heaven and hell are actual places where people do exist forever. The biblical teaching about hell is probably the second toughest thing in Scripture to grasp. So what's the first? Here it is: God loved you enough to send His only Son to die in your place on the cross. Seriously, who does that? God did.

The Lord wants you in heaven forever and not in hell. If you repent of your sins and receive Christ as your Savior, you will be saved and safe forever, period. (see Mark 1:15, John 3:16, John 1:12, 1 Timothy 2:4, 2 Peter 3:9, & 1 John 5:13)

At the same time, if you continue to reject Christ, that's on you. But either way, it is nonsensical for someone to make the illogical statement, "I could never believe in a God who sends people to hell." And I suspect you now see why that premise, albeit sincere, is false and illogical.

Everything just makes more sense when you are trusting Jesus to forgive your sins.

-- Dan Delzell is the pastor of Wellspring Lutheran Church in Papillion, Neb. He is a regular contributor to The Christian Post.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Moral Issues; Skeptics/Seekers; Theology
KEYWORDS: dandezell; dezell; god; hell; lutheran
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1 posted on 01/09/2014 9:09:07 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

The premise is illogical and not just in the “hell” example. What the person is saying is “I could never believe in a God that doesn’t behave exactly how I personally would want God to behave.”


2 posted on 01/09/2014 9:14:23 AM PST by circlecity
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To: SeekAndFind
We can all agree that the following statement is true: "The biblical description regarding hell and those who go there is either true or false."

I disagree. It's not a binary. Different Christians interpret the Bible differently on this point.

3 posted on 01/09/2014 9:14:35 AM PST by DManA
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To: SeekAndFind

I think people who say that really mean, “Any God who would create/allow Hell is not good but evil, and you say God is good.”

The Muslims believe that good is what Allah says it is - and that he could say anything. If he decides to say giving alms is evil and stealing is good, it is so.

Suppose the Muslim concept of God and goodness were true, not the Christian one. I suppose most of us would become Muslims to avoid hell, if we knew that was the only way - but wouldn’t the heart you have now cry out against the teachings of Islam, slavery and conquest and murder, cry out that it was still evil?


4 posted on 01/09/2014 9:17:06 AM PST by heartwood
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To: circlecity
Libtards belong in hell, because everytime they assume political power, they do their utmost to turn life into a living hell for everyone under their control.

Cases in point: Detroit, Venezuela, North Korea.

5 posted on 01/09/2014 9:17:49 AM PST by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: SeekAndFind

Even if God did not make a hell, His mercy and justice would demand such a place.


6 posted on 01/09/2014 9:18:49 AM PST by Slyfox (We want our pre-existing HEALTH INSURANCE back!)
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To: heartwood

The Muslims certainly do not reject Allah because of Jahannam (the Koran’s “Hell”).


7 posted on 01/09/2014 9:19:45 AM PST by Olog-hai
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To: SeekAndFind
"I could never believe in a God who sends people to hell."

God does not send people to hell. People send themselves there because they do not want to be with God for eternity. They would rather be with the alternative.

8 posted on 01/09/2014 9:21:10 AM PST by Slyfox (We want our pre-existing HEALTH INSURANCE back!)
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To: SeekAndFind
"if you continue to reject Christ, that's on you"

Where else is Christ going to put those obstinate folks that don't want to be with Him? The place is called hell.

9 posted on 01/09/2014 9:21:19 AM PST by GonzoII ("If the new crime be, to believe in God, let us all be criminals" -Sheen)
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To: SeekAndFind; NYer; Salvation

I’ve been to Hell, twice. Once in Michigan and once in Norway. Both places are quite logical and do freeze over in the winter.

“Hell” to me is being separated from God. It does not have to be literally “Dante’s Inferno” but it does exist in a form where Satan/Devil has hold of one’s soul and thus keeps a person/soul from believing that their salvation is possible through Jesus.


10 posted on 01/09/2014 9:22:57 AM PST by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: GonzoII

Again and again the Bible tells us the punishment for sin is death.

It is illogical to say death = eternal life, but with agony.


11 posted on 01/09/2014 9:23:14 AM PST by DManA
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To: SeekAndFind

The biblical construct of “hell” is not as tradition has taught.

According to the bible there is a Lake of Fire in which the wicked, the Beast, the False Prophet and the Devil himself are thrown into. (Revelation 20)

The Devil is the only one who will be tormented forever and ever (Revelation 20:10)

The wicked shall be ashes under the feet of the righteous (Malachi 4:1-3)

There is a White Throne Judgement, and those not found in the book of Life are thrown in the lake of fire. The judgment is permanent (forever) - meaning the judgement is final. Similar to when God sealed the door of the ark and the judgment was final on all those who were not in the ark.

Modern American Churchianity has no balance. They are rushing from one erroneous tradition (hell) into another false tradition (no judgment). There is a Judgement upon all - even the Angels themselves. There is a penalty for sin - which is DEATH. Eternal death, the Second Death.

Belief in hell is not a Salvation issue. Believing on Him who can save us from the Second Death, and His death for our sins and resurrection into His life is the Gospel.

That said - scaring people into faith does not produce an anchor as powerful as a people rooted in faith looking forward to the resurrection that Christ is bringing with Him as our reward.


12 posted on 01/09/2014 9:26:15 AM PST by INVAR ("Fart for liberty, fart for freedom and fart proudly!" - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: SeekAndFind

They are not rejecting “God”. Rather, they are rejecting the message. They are saying they don’t believe such a God exists and is a fairy tale.

Interestingly, the New Testament has many clear messages. One of them is the message to willingly come to the Lord. Yet the “eternal torture in Hell” message is clear coersion. It is the equivalent, in human terms, of telling someone to sign the contract or you will blow their brains out. It is called coersion. It is also illegal.

But more importantly, it flies in the face of Jesus’ teachings. I did not become a follower of Christ because he threatened to torture me for all eternity. I became a follower of Jesus because I want to spend eternity in the presence of my creator.

I came to the Lord through desire, not fear. And fear is the opposite of faith.


13 posted on 01/09/2014 9:26:17 AM PST by cuban leaf
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To: SeekAndFind

When was Hell created?


14 posted on 01/09/2014 9:26:28 AM PST by DBrow
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To: Slyfox

Even if God did not make a hell, His mercy and justice would demand such a place.


I would say it demands that those that do not accept the blood of Christ will not receive eternal life. Beyond that, it’s no small source of debate.


15 posted on 01/09/2014 9:28:00 AM PST by cuban leaf
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To: Olog-hai

You’re missing my point.

God permitting hell is a moral scandal to some people. To them, if that God existed he would be an evil God. People stand up to worldly dictators sometimes and are tortured and killed for it but most lay low and appease them. Suppose the dictator were eternal and all-powerful - that still wouldn’t make him good, would it? You could not gain anything by opposing him, not even non-existence.


16 posted on 01/09/2014 9:28:21 AM PST by heartwood
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To: SeekAndFind
"I could never believe in a God who sends people to hell."

I don't think God 'sends' people to hell, I'm pretty sure they drive themselves there.

God set up the rules, and gave us 'free will' to choose our path. Many choose this path.


17 posted on 01/09/2014 9:28:39 AM PST by UCANSEE2 (I forgot what my tagline was supposed to say)
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To: SeekAndFind; All

Enjoy!

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2240648/posts


18 posted on 01/09/2014 9:29:03 AM PST by cuban leaf
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To: circlecity

The problem of of hell is that it assigns infinite torture as punishment for a finite number of evil deeds committed during a finite life.


19 posted on 01/09/2014 9:31:28 AM PST by Gloss
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To: heartwood

It’s only a “moral scandal” to those that hate the idea of the existence of an all-powerful god, evidently.

As for God’s law as Christians know it, that brings freedom rather than slavery. The freedoms that the USA brought are evidence of that; the Founding Fathers wanted the country to be biblically-based in terms of law.


20 posted on 01/09/2014 9:31:49 AM PST by Olog-hai
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To: DBrow
When was Hell created?

Right after Eve ate the Apple. We know this because afterwards, she gave Adam hell.

21 posted on 01/09/2014 9:32:05 AM PST by UCANSEE2 (I forgot what my tagline was supposed to say)
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To: Gloss

Not if you read the original text. Remember, there are four different words in the Bible translated “hell” with different meanings, and the word “hell” itself is borrowed from Norse religion.


22 posted on 01/09/2014 9:32:53 AM PST by Olog-hai
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To: DManA
"Again and again the Bible tells us the punishment for sin is death.

It is illogical to say death = eternal life, but with agony.

I wouldn't want to be on record calling God's Word illogical.

Think of "death" as life without the sun, what would it be? Its form would still exist but it wouldn't have the life it was intended to have. We could call it dead.

"Eternal life but with agony"

I think that's theologically correct.

23 posted on 01/09/2014 9:35:31 AM PST by GonzoII ("If the new crime be, to believe in God, let us all be criminals" -Sheen)
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To: GonzoII

I’ll go on record and stand before the Lord saying I disagree with your interpretation of God’s word on this point.


24 posted on 01/09/2014 9:36:50 AM PST by DManA
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To: Gloss
"The problem of of hell is that it assigns infinite torture as punishment for a finite number of evil deeds committed during a finite life."

All sins are sins against an infinite God. Thus, I'm not sure there are any "finite" sins.

25 posted on 01/09/2014 9:38:34 AM PST by circlecity
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To: cuban leaf

Isn’t it amazing, though, that even if the only motivztion for following Christ is abject fear, God will accept that and work with it.


26 posted on 01/09/2014 9:38:56 AM PST by PA BOOKENDS
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To: SeekAndFind

“...it would be absurd for you to say, “I would rather go to hell than believe in God.” No you wouldn’t. You don’t really mean it.”

Yes. But pride is a powerful thing.


27 posted on 01/09/2014 9:39:25 AM PST by ModelBreaker
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To: SeekAndFind

I think we need more convincing and simpler arguments than this. I understand where he is going but the explanation can be much simpler.

Christ only allows people to live with Him eternally if they knock on the door and request to come in. This first requires the person to recognize that God exists. Why would God allow someone in His home if the person doesn’t even acknowledge God exists?

It’s the person’s choice. The default condition is that they remain outside God’s house (hell condition) unless they knock and request to come in. Each person actually gets what they want.


28 posted on 01/09/2014 9:43:21 AM PST by plain talk
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To: PA BOOKENDS

Is such a person “following God”?


29 posted on 01/09/2014 9:49:03 AM PST by cuban leaf
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To: circlecity

God does not send people to Hell, they condemn themselves by their actions in this life.

We all make multiple choices in life, some are life-affirming, others are an election for death of the spirit. We have all made an election, sometime or another, for the spirit to die, yet, here we are (most of us, anyway), for whom that wrong decision has been forgiven, and the opportunity was afforded yet again to make the life-affirming choice.

Hell exists, in the metaphysical sense, because Man was given free will, and has endless opportunities to make the wrong choice, sometimes over and over, at which point, the path to redemption gets harder and harder to regain. Not impossible, never was and never shall be, but much more difficult. First comes admission of the lapses, to both yourself and to the Deity, then the task of discipline that atones for the lapse, and lastly, the surrender to the Grace given without reservation.

The message of Christ has this little hidden barb - it is up to the individual to ASK for redemption, it is by no means automatic or preordained in any way.


30 posted on 01/09/2014 9:50:13 AM PST by alloysteel (Those who deny natural climate change are forever doomed to stupidity. AGW is a LIE.)
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To: cuban leaf

I became a Christian at eight through fear of hell and the apocalypse (neigbor’s Bible study). I could not have stayed a Christian without a great deal more than that.

To my father, it was a dreadful scandal that God would burn up a little girl. He was raised Christian, and I wasn’t.


31 posted on 01/09/2014 9:53:18 AM PST by heartwood
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To: DManA
Most Christians, much less non-Christians, don't realize the absurdity of the premise for the argument. People will not spend eternity in Heaven or Hell. They will spend eternity on the New Earth (and New Heavens, space travel?) or in the Lake of Fire!

Hell = Hades = abode of the dead (conscious?)

Gehenna = Lake of Fire = destination of Death, Hell and those whose names are not written on the book of life (Rev 20), aka the Second Death.

The Bible is plain that the Lake of Fire is everlasting, permanent, eternal, non-reversable, to which we all agree. What most Christians explain away is that the Lake of Fire is described with words like "punishement" "perish" "destroyed" and "second death". It is the annihilation of the person! "Worm shall not die" and "fire not quenched" notwithstanding, the Bible is very plain. The Lake of Fire is NOT conscious torment for all eternity.

32 posted on 01/09/2014 9:56:55 AM PST by jimmyray
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To: GonzoII
QUOTE: "...Think of "death" as life without the sun..."

Poor analogy, for life without the sun won't be life for very long. Without photosynthesis, plants die, animals die, people die. But perhaps you prove the point. How long will it take the Lake of Fire to extinguish a soul? The elapsed time may be commiserate with the sins commited.

33 posted on 01/09/2014 10:00:36 AM PST by jimmyray
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To: PA BOOKENDS
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; all those who practice it have a good understanding.
Psalm 111:10

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.
Prov 9:10

34 posted on 01/09/2014 10:01:01 AM PST by GBA (Here in the Matrix, life is but a dream.)
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To: heartwood
I often wonder about that. People find it scandalous that God would burn up a little girl, so to speak, but what about the question of mortality? Is it not equally, perhaps even more scandalous that God causes us (little girl or old woman [or man]) to die in the first place?

I've read Samuel Clemons rejected the Bible and Christianity because the question of the flood, and the destruction of so many (thousands, millions, billions?) "innocents".

35 posted on 01/09/2014 10:04:52 AM PST by jimmyray
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To: SeekAndFind
"I could never believe in a God who sends people to hell." This common objection,

This is dumb, I have never heard anyone ever say this

Sure I've heard a long the lines of "Even if I did believe in God, I could never worship a God who sends people to hell" but that is not the same.

Atheist don't believe in God because they don't believe he is real and they think the Bible is a work of fiction, it's no more, no less than this.

It's not because of what the Bible says God's nature is. Sure they will use the contradictory characteristics of God in the Bible as evidence that the Bible is fiction, but if there was evidence that the God in the Bible was real Atheist would believe in him whether they worshipped him or not.

36 posted on 01/09/2014 10:05:37 AM PST by qam1 (There's been a huge party. All plates and the bottles are empty, all that's left is the bill to pay)
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To: DManA
It is a binary. Hell either exists, or does not. there is nothing else.

Given that it exists, it is either as the Bible describes, let me rephrase that, as the writer interprets it. Let's call that an eternal, burning Hell.

So, given that Hell exists is some form, or another, it is either an eternal, burning Hell, or it is something else. I doesn't matter what else that it is, or how many other something elses it might possibly be. It is either an eternal burning Hell, or it is not.

tha's as binary as it gets. And if it is something else, you can pick them off one by one. Or, you can start with one of the something elses. Assuming there actually is a burning Hell, and that you can accurately eliminate each one that is not an eternal burning Hell. Or alternatively, recognize the true Hell when you consider it, sooner or later you will get to the position that there is a burning Hell. Of course, that's a lot of assumptions

37 posted on 01/09/2014 10:08:19 AM PST by chesley
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To: Gloss

The problem of of hell is that it assigns infinite torture as punishment for a finite number of evil deeds committed during a finite life.


You are wrong. It has nothing to do with deeds. It’s solely based on faith, or lack of, in Christ as your savior.


38 posted on 01/09/2014 10:09:10 AM PST by bramps (Mark Levin: Would Christie, McConnell, and Boehner repeal obamacare? Not a chance!)
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To: heartwood

Evil is what God says, but He says it for a reason, unlike the arbitrary Allah


39 posted on 01/09/2014 10:09:48 AM PST by chesley
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To: INVAR
QUOTE: The Devil is the only one who will be tormented forever and ever (Revelation 20:10)

You are mostly correct, to wit:

Rev 20:10And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

40 posted on 01/09/2014 10:09:58 AM PST by jimmyray
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To: jimmyray

My son is going through a crisis of faith right now because of God’s orders in the Old Testament through His prophets to destroy the enemies of Israel, down to the last baby.

I went through the same crisis years ago - and never resolved it, except that I have come to trust God enough to wait for answers in heaven.


41 posted on 01/09/2014 10:10:50 AM PST by heartwood
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To: Gloss
The problem of hell is that it assigns infinite torture as punishment for a finite number of evil deeds committed during a finite life.

A couple of quick points. First, nowhere in the Bible is hell ever said to be punishment; rather, it is torment (Gk. basanos). If hell were punishment, it would not fit the crime. Sin's punishment is death (Romans 6:23), which is why Jesus' death paid the price for our sin. Moreover, when Jesus speaks of "the thief," evidently meaning the devil, in John 10:10, He says that Satan steals, kills, and destroys--except that the word for "destroy" is apolese from apollymi, the word in John 3:16 translated "perish," and also referenced as the name of the "angel of the bottomless pit" in Revelation 9:10, apollyon. Death is not the same as hell, and hell is not a punishment for sin.

So if hell is torment rather than punishment, what is the torment? It can only be the lack of the experience of the presence of God, whereas the "heaven" of heaven is the perpetual complete experience of the presence of God--and this life is the perpetual but only partial experience of the presence of God, with unbelievers only experiencing God's presence indirectly via nature, and believers experiencing God's presence directly, and to the extent that they ask, seek, and knock. We experience some torment in this life because we experience our "aloneness," our separation from God, and we either attempt to overcome that aloneness by seeking God's presence in our lives, or by substituting psycho-physical pleasures, which are always eventually unsuccessful. In hell, however, those who rejected God's offer of reconciliation obtain the separation from God that they wanted, just as in heaven, those who accepted God's offer of reconciliation obtain the re-connection to God that they wanted.

42 posted on 01/09/2014 10:12:20 AM PST by chajin ("There is no other name under heaven given among people by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12)
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To: Gloss

-— The problem of of hell is that it assigns infinite torture as punishment for a finite number of evil deeds committed during a finite life.-—

A single mortal (grave) sin against an infinitely good God is deserving of infinite punishment, simply on a logical level. Fortunately, we know from divine revelation that God is merciful, as long as we “repent and believe.’


43 posted on 01/09/2014 10:13:43 AM PST by St_Thomas_Aquinas ( Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
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To: chesley

Well, yes, I believe God’s nature to be good, and that He is not arbitrary, but there are accounts in the Bible, and matters of creation that are hard for me to reconcile with the Good as I understand it. I still have faith, without everything being reconciled.

Some people find no moral conflicts and have faith, and others are brought up short by moral conflicts and lose faith or cannot come to faith, even when they desire it.


44 posted on 01/09/2014 10:15:40 AM PST by heartwood
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To: GonzoII

I do believe that those that are not written in the book of Life will not spend eternity in the presence of God. This begs the question, can one live outside the presence of God?


45 posted on 01/09/2014 10:19:00 AM PST by cuban leaf
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To: heartwood

Well, you are not alone in this.


46 posted on 01/09/2014 10:31:15 AM PST by chesley
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To: jimmyray
"How long will it take the Lake of Fire to extinguish a soul?"

If God keeps it in existence for all eternity then it couldn't, which is shown from Scripture:

Mt 25: 41, 46; Dan 12:22; 2 Thess 1:7-9 etc.

47 posted on 01/09/2014 10:31:16 AM PST by GonzoII ("If the new crime be, to believe in God, let us all be criminals" -Sheen)
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To: SeekAndFind

1. Hell is eternal because it’s cast into the lake of fire, which is also eternal:

2Th 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

The Holy Spirit didn’t say “temporary” destruction. That’s the Greek “aionios” meaning “perpetual, eternal, everlasting.” And “destruction” is the Greek “olethros” meaning “death, destruction, punishment, ruin.”

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

2. God is who casts people into hell:

Luk 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

3. The author also fails to recognize that the spiritually dead can’t do spiritually logical things:

Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Here’s people who see the wrath of God with their own eyes, and yet don’t repent. They’d rather have rocks and mountains fall on them to hide them from God, rather than repent. They’re obviously completely reprobate, damned with no hope of salvation.

This is part of the reason:

1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The other part includes such passages as Romans 9.


48 posted on 01/09/2014 10:33:55 AM PST by afsnco
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To: cuban leaf
"This begs the question, can one live outside the presence of God?"

The Scriptures claim the damned will: Post #47.

49 posted on 01/09/2014 10:34:48 AM PST by GonzoII ("If the new crime be, to believe in God, let us all be criminals" -Sheen)
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To: chesley

Actually, Hell is thrown into the lake of fire. And the lake of fire is an object in Revelation, the most steeped in symbolism book in the bible. There is no way I believe it is a literal lake of fire. The surface of the Sun would maybe be called a lake of fire to some.

Also, when dealing with eternity we must be careful about ascribing it to a length of time, even if infinite. The linear time in which we live is a part of creation and this creation will be destroyed. So whenever I see phrases in the bible like “eternity”, forever and ever, etc. I see it as trying to explain the color “red” to a person that only sees in grayscale.


50 posted on 01/09/2014 10:35:49 AM PST by cuban leaf
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