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Pope: if we don’t "profess" the faith or trust in God, we become "defeated Christians"...
Asia News ^ | 1/10/2014

Posted on 01/10/2014 3:41:50 AM PST by markomalley

"If we Christians believe professing the faith, even safeguarding it, if we are custodians of the faith , and entrust ourselves to God , the Lord , we will be victorious Christians. And this is the victory that has overcome the world: our faith". Otherwise we would be "half hearted Christians" those "defeated Christians" of which the Church "is full", said Pope Francis during his homily at Mass this morning at Casa Santa Marta.

Vatican Radio reports the Pope's homily focused on the passage from the First Letter of St. John, in which the apostle , "insists " on "that word which for him is as an expression of Christian life" , " remaining in the Lord" to love God and to love our neighbor . This "remaining in love" of God is the work of the Holy Spirit and our faith and has a concrete effect:

"Whoever remains in God, whoever is begotten by God, whoever remains in love wins the world and the victory is our faith. For our part, faith. For God - for this 'remaining' - the Holy Spirit, which carries out this work of grace. For our part, faith. This is really something! And this is the victory that has won over the world: our faith ! Our faith can do anything! This is victory! And it would be good if we repeated this, even just to ourselves, because we are so often defeated Christians. The Church is full of defeated Christians who do not believe in this, that faith is the victory, who do not live this faith, because if you do not live this faith, then there is only defeat and the prince of the world wins over the world".

The Pope recalled that Jesus praised the very faith of the Woman, the Canaanite, the man born blind and said that those who have faith, like a mustard seed can move mountains . "This faith - he says - requires two attitudes of us: to profess and entrust ourselves". First of all "profess".

"Faith is to profess God, but the God who has revealed Himself to us, from the days of our fathers until now, the God of history. And this is what we recite every day in the Creed. It is one thing to recite the Creed from the heart and another like parrots, no? I believe, I believe in God, I believe in Jesus Christ, I believe ... do I believe in what I say ? Is this profession of faith true or am I reciting it off by heart, because I have to? Or do I only half believe in it? Professing the Faith! All of it, not just a part of it! All of it! And safeguarding the faith in its entirety, as it came to us, on the road of tradition: all of the faith ! And ' how do I know if I profess the faith well? There is a sign: those who profess the faith well, all of the faith, are able to worship, worship God".

"We know how to ask God how to thank God - the Pope said - but to worship God, to praise God is something more! Only those who have this strong faith are capable of worship". And Pope Francis added: "I dare say that the thermometer of the life of the Church is a bit ' low in this: the capacity to worship is somewhat scarce, "we do not have a lot , some , yes ... " . And this "is because we are not convinced or only half convinced in the profession of our faith". So - said the Pope - the first attitude is to profess the faith and safeguard it . The other attitude is "entrusting ourselves".

"The man or woman who has faith entrust themselves to God: they entrust themselves! Paul, in a dark time in his life, said: 'I know well to whom I have entrusted myself'. To God! The Lord Jesus! Entrusting ourselves and this leads us to hope. Just as the profession of faith leads us to the worship and praise of God, trust in God leads us to an attitude of hope. There are many Christians who have a watered down hope, not a very strong one: a faint hope . Why? Because they do not have the strength or the courage to trust in the Lord . But if we Christians believe professing the faith, even safeguarding it, if we are custodians of the faith , and entrust ourselves to God , the Lord , we will be victorious Christians. And this is the victory that has overcome the world: our faith. "


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Full title: Pope: if we don’t "profess" the faith or trust in God, we become "defeated Christians" of which the Church "is full"
1 posted on 01/10/2014 3:41:50 AM PST by markomalley
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To: markomalley

We’ve become defeated Christians the moment we started saying that killing children is OK, contraception and homosex is fine, and divorce, and communism, and lying is no big deal, and sending soldiers off to die on suicide missions for political gain, ect.

There are a huge number of things as an amoral/immoral society we’ve allowed because Christianity, which means that Jesus’ mission as to save us from the power of Satan and his minions, is inconsequential to our culture.


2 posted on 01/10/2014 3:53:12 AM PST by Bayard
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To: Bayard

The Pope is correct though. God Bless Pope Francis.


3 posted on 01/10/2014 4:05:49 AM PST by Biggirl (Ā“Go, do not be afraid, and serveĀ”-Pope Francis)
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To: Bayard

ALL of us, be professing Christians or not, NEED to repent and believe.


4 posted on 01/10/2014 4:06:57 AM PST by Biggirl (Ā“Go, do not be afraid, and serveĀ”-Pope Francis)
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To: Biggirl
If Western Civilization is to survive, the Pope must call for another crusade against islam, which has all but conquered Europe and grows like a virus in America. There is little time.
5 posted on 01/10/2014 4:21:16 AM PST by Jacquerie (Article V.)
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To: Jacquerie

Better yet, it is much more better that the Gospel of Jesus be preached to ALL. Take a look at the global south, the Christian faith is GROWING by leaps and bounds.

Proclaiming the Gospel of Jesus should be considered the new crusade.


6 posted on 01/10/2014 4:27:11 AM PST by Biggirl (Ā“Go, do not be afraid, and serveĀ”-Pope Francis)
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To: markomalley

What are you trusting Him for?


7 posted on 01/10/2014 9:39:09 AM PST by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7

At least there is a Pope who preaches the Gospel of Jesus.


8 posted on 01/10/2014 11:22:46 AM PST by Biggirl (Ā“Go, do not be afraid, and serveĀ”-Pope Francis)
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To: Biggirl
At least there is a Pope who preaches the Gospel of Jesus.

Oh, really?

Turning to mutual respect in interreligious relations, especially between Christians and Muslims, we are called to respect the religion of the other, its teachings, its symbols, its values. Pope Francis

"We hold the Jewish people in special regard because their covenant with God has never been revoked, for ‘the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable’ (Rom 11:29). The Church, which shares with Jews an important part of the Sacred Scriptures, looks upon the people of the covenant and their faith as one of the sacred roots of her own Christian identity (cf. Rom 11:16-18). As Christians, we cannot consider Judaism as a foreign religion; nor do we include the Jews among those called to turn from idols and to serve the true God (cf. 1 Thes 1:9). With them, we believe in the one God who acts in history, and with them we accept his revealed word.” Pope Francis

Yes, Virginia, there is salvation outside the Catholic Church!

9 posted on 01/10/2014 4:53:10 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide

Your opinion and your opinion only.


10 posted on 01/10/2014 5:10:21 PM PST by Biggirl (Ā“Go, do not be afraid, and serveĀ”-Pope Francis)
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To: ebb tide

Read the main story. It sure does read like Pope Francis is preaching the Gospel.


11 posted on 01/10/2014 5:14:54 PM PST by Biggirl (Ā“Go, do not be afraid, and serveĀ”-Pope Francis)
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To: Biggirl

No kidding?


12 posted on 01/10/2014 5:36:40 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: All

“If we Christians believe professing the faith, even safeguarding it, if we are custodians of the faith , and entrust ourselves to God , the Lord , we will be victorious Christians. And this is the victory that has overcome the world: our faith”. Otherwise we would be “half hearted Christians” those “defeated Christians” of which the Church “is full”, said Pope Francis during his homily at Mass this morning at Casa Santa Marta.”

The first paragraph said it best.


13 posted on 01/10/2014 5:38:10 PM PST by Biggirl (Ā“Go, do not be afraid, and serveĀ”-Pope Francis)
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To: Biggirl

All I did was quote the Pope. What do you think his opinion is about Jews and muslims in lieu of his words?


14 posted on 01/10/2014 5:39:28 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: Biggirl

As opposed to the victorious Muslims and Jews who stick to their own “values” and “covenants”, respectfully?


15 posted on 01/10/2014 5:41:49 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide

I do not get what you are saying, “victorious Muslims and Jews”.

You realize that the Christian faith cannot be forced. The decision to follow Christ has to be decided freely.


16 posted on 01/10/2014 5:48:01 PM PST by Biggirl (Ā“Go, do not be afraid, and serveĀ”-Pope Francis)
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To: ebb tide

Plus the first priority is for the renewing of the faith among the faithful.


17 posted on 01/10/2014 5:50:00 PM PST by Biggirl (Ā“Go, do not be afraid, and serveĀ”-Pope Francis)
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To: Biggirl
I do not get what you are saying, “victorious Muslims and Jews”.

What I'm saying is: It doesn't really help when a pope preaches the Gospel of Jesus on one day, to one audience, when he goes out the next day and preaches totally heterodox declarations to false religions, without an inkling of urging them to convert.

18 posted on 01/10/2014 5:55:27 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: Biggirl
Plus the first priority is for the renewing of the faith among the faithful.

That kind of hard to do when he's telling other audiences (e.g. atheists, Jews, etc.) they don't need to convert.

19 posted on 01/10/2014 5:59:20 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide

Let us agree to disagree. Okay.


20 posted on 01/10/2014 6:02:48 PM PST by Biggirl (Ā“Go, do not be afraid, and serveĀ”-Pope Francis)
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To: markomalley
A Profession of Faith:

The Creed: A Spiritual Treasure (and its relevance to contemporary society
The Nicene Creed [Catholic Caucus]
On the Mend: The Church in the Early 21st Century
Radio Replies Second Volume - Value of a Creed
The Nicene Creed: Ancient Symbol of the Catholic Faith [Ecumenical]
What's the Point of Creeds?
What’s the Point of Creeds?
Who Needs a Creed? (part 1 of 12)

Creed 7: Ascended Into Heaven
Beginning Catholic: Creeds: Apostles, Nicene, Athanasian [Ecumenical]
Beginning Catholic: Basic Tenets of Catholicism [Ecumenical]
The Catholic Nicene Creed
We Believe in One God...: The Nicene Creed at Mass [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]
I Believe [Apostle's Creed]
Why the Creed Doesn't Mention the Eucharist
The Apostles' Creed in Public and Private Worship
More Than Our Father [The Creed]
The Nicene Creed in Greek and Latin
The Creed - latest revisions proposed by ICEL

21 posted on 01/10/2014 6:53:36 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: ebb tide; Biggirl
839 "Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways."325 The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 "the first to hear the Word of God."327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God's revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews "belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ",328 "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."329

840 and when one considers the future, God's People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.

Catechism of the Catholic Church

It ain't just Pope Francis.

My question to you, ebb tide, is if you have a problem here with Pope Francis or with the Catechism?

22 posted on 01/11/2014 12:34:16 AM PST by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good -- Leo XIII)
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To: markomalley

Thank-you for your help. God Bless.


23 posted on 01/11/2014 3:44:19 AM PST by Biggirl (Ā“Go, do not be afraid, and serveĀ”-Pope Francis)
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To: ebb tide

Please see post number 23. Thank-you.


24 posted on 01/11/2014 3:46:03 AM PST by Biggirl (Ā“Go, do not be afraid, and serveĀ”-Pope Francis)
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To: ebb tide

Correction: Please see post number 22. Thank-you.


25 posted on 01/11/2014 3:47:03 AM PST by Biggirl (Ā“Go, do not be afraid, and serveĀ”-Pope Francis)
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To: markomalley; Biggirl

Yes and yes. I have big problems with JP II’s catechism.


26 posted on 01/11/2014 11:32:29 AM PST by ebb tide
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To: markomalley; Biggirl

Pope St Pius X: “The Jews have not recognized our Lord, therefore we cannot recognize the Jewish people.”

From the Catechism of Pope St Pius X (in regards to the First Commandment):

15 Q: What else does the First Commandment forbid?

A: The First Commandment also forbids all dealings with the devil, and all association with anti-Christian sects.


27 posted on 01/11/2014 11:52:05 AM PST by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide; Biggirl
Quoting the Pope: we are called to respect the religion of the other, its teachings, its symbols, its values

We hold the Jewish people in special regard because their covenant with God has never been revoked

And concluding: Yes, Virginia, there is salvation outside the Catholic Church!

Respect for other religions and the belief that the covenant of the Jews is fulfilled in Catholic Christianity (and therefore is not revoked) are valid Catholic beliefs of all ages. They -- nor the John Paul's Catechism, -- do not deny that salvation comes solely from the Catholic Church.

I am troubled by the ecumenical urges of many modern Catholics. It is possible that this pope shares them. But let us read and understand what we read before we start another anti-papist rant, please.

28 posted on 01/11/2014 12:08:17 PM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex
Respect for other religions and the belief that the covenant of the Jews is fulfilled in Catholic Christianity (and therefore is not revoked) are valid Catholic beliefs of all ages.

The above is not true and that lie has only been taught since the Second Vatican Council.

I am not a anit-papist and EENS is dogma.

29 posted on 01/11/2014 12:19:46 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: markomalley; Biggirl; annalex
Pope Francis and the Old Covenant
30 posted on 01/11/2014 5:29:06 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: annalex

Thank-you and God Bless.


31 posted on 01/12/2014 2:54:02 AM PST by Biggirl (Ā“Go, do not be afraid, and serveĀ”-Pope Francis)
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To: ebb tide

....Yet Blessed John Paul II with Blessed John XXIII will both be declared saints this coming April. What say you?


32 posted on 01/12/2014 10:19:27 AM PST by Biggirl (Ā“Go, do not be afraid, and serveĀ”-Pope Francis)
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To: Biggirl

Crossing threads now, are we? Cat got you tongue?


33 posted on 01/12/2014 10:21:35 AM PST by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide
The above [Respect for other religions is Catholic belief] is not true

Seriously?

EENS [Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus] is dogma.

I know. No one is negating it.

34 posted on 01/12/2014 12:20:59 PM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex

Francis is. Did you not read Vennari’s article?


35 posted on 01/12/2014 1:01:32 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide

I have not read it. Got a link?


36 posted on 01/12/2014 1:19:33 PM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex

Yes, I have a link. I posted it to you in Post 30.


37 posted on 01/12/2014 6:01:02 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide
Ah, thank you. Yes, I agree with the article in its positive part. I, too, find Nostra Aetate intentionally vague, and really inviting error.

My only disagreement is with this syllogism:

The Old Covenant … has never been revoked. This means that the goal of the conversion of the Jews is abandoned, and that their salvation as a people is embraced, setting aside forever the notion that their baptism is required.

This indeed allows some people to come down on Pope Francis as a ton of bricks each time he mentions that "never been revoked" or asks for plain civility with people of different religions. But the phrase in itself is true. The covenant with the Jews has not been revoked precisely because it has been fulfilled in the Church. We are the Israel; we have the covenant and they, the Jews should come to us.

It could be that Pope Francis is a "man of Nostra Aetate"; it could be that he is not; and it could be that he is somewhere in between. Judging by a few warm words toward the Jews, and a chance photograph in the vicinity of a menorah, -- which is our Christian obligation of charity, -- it is impossible to tell.

I also wholly agree that with the Pope his warm and loving personality tends to bubble over the top and I am sure that with time he will find a way to remain on clean doctrinal ground in his teaching.

38 posted on 01/12/2014 6:22:16 PM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex; Biggirl
It could be that Pope Francis is a "man of Nostra Aetate"; it could be that he is not; and it could be that he is somewhere in between. Judging by a few warm words toward the Jews, and a chance photograph in the vicinity of a menorah, -- which is our Christian obligation of charity, -- it is impossible to tell.

Well, the "chance" photograph actually shows him lighting a menorah.

And from the Catechism of Pope St Pius X (in regards to the First Commandment):

15 Q: What else does the First Commandment forbid?

A: The First Commandment also forbids all dealings with the devil, and all association with anti-Christian sects.

Now please keep in mind that I'm quoting the last Pope who has been raised to the altars, before you again accuse of me being on a anti-papist rant.

39 posted on 01/12/2014 6:56:56 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: annalex

Tell the Franciscans of the Immaculate about “warm and loving”.


40 posted on 01/12/2014 7:00:00 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: annalex
We are the Israel; we have the covenant and they, the Jews should come to us.

Agreed, but what Pope has preached this in the last 50 years?

41 posted on 01/12/2014 7:05:59 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: annalex
The covenant with the Jews has not been revoked precisely because it has been fulfilled in the Church. We are the Israel; we have the covenant and they, the Jews should come to us.

I think your apostle addressed this already: For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: [14] If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. [15] For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? [16] For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. [17] And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; [18] Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. [19] Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. [20] Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: [21] For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. [22] Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. [23] And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. [24] For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? [25] For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. [26] And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: [27] For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. [28] As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. [29] For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. [30] For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: [31] Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. [32] For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. [33] O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! [34] For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counseller? [35] Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? [36] For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

42 posted on 01/12/2014 7:33:16 PM PST by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began,)
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To: ebb tide

Lighting a menorah is not common prayer; it is a festival activity.

In the past 50 years, the papal teaching was that we should not view the Jews as an “anti-Christian sect”.

Of course you are on an anti-papist rant. The pope today is St. Francis; that’s whom you accuse of apostasy based on virtually anything he does. You are anti-papist.


43 posted on 01/13/2014 5:18:29 AM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: af_vet_1981
because of unbelief they were broken off

You are correct; at this point those subscribing to the religion of rabbinical Judaism have to convert and be re-grafted to the covenant that was originally their own and at this point is with the Catholic Church.

44 posted on 01/13/2014 5:21:10 AM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex

Pope Saint Pius’ catechism did not mention common prayer. It stated:

>>15 Q: What else does the First Commandment forbid?

A: The First Commandment also forbids all dealings with the devil, and all association with anti-Christian sect’s.<<

Please don’t twist a saint’s word; it’s not charitable to do so.


45 posted on 01/13/2014 7:47:39 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: annalex
In the past 50 years, the papal teaching was that we should not view the Jews as an “anti-Christian sect”.

So they're a pro-Christian sect then? And what happened fifty years ago to come to this new "ruling"?

46 posted on 01/13/2014 7:51:40 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide
I made a reference to Apostolic Canon 45, prohibiting prayer with heretics and schismatics.

Pope Pius X is not the only source of reference, you know.

The re-examination of the Church vis-a-vis the Jewry occurred in the wake of the Second World War and creation of the state of Israel, when it became clear that the Jews have an distinct role in the fabric of the Western Civilization and as a whole do not bear hostility to Christians, whereas often the hostility of the Christians toward the Jews is a gross failure of Christian charity. The Church therefore in her pastoral duty to the Christian world, undertook to ensure that the Jews as a group not be treated as anti-Christian religious community.

47 posted on 01/14/2014 5:45:58 AM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex
A better reference is to both canons 45 and 65, see Holy Canons Related to Ecumenism

The source is Orthodox but the canons themselves are from the Undivided Church.

48 posted on 01/14/2014 5:49:35 AM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex

Actually the new covenant is with, and between, the Holy One of Israel and any Jew or Gentile whom he calls.


49 posted on 01/15/2014 8:23:50 AM PST by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began,)
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To: af_vet_1981
Prophetically, and literally, the new covenant is between the LORD and the houses of Israel and Judah. Romans clearly teaches it is extended to all nations (the Gentiles), but naturally belongs to Israel.
50 posted on 01/15/2014 8:32:41 AM PST by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began,)
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