Skip to comments.There is only ONE WAY to be saved.
Posted on 01/12/2014 5:53:46 AM PST by knarf
You don't need a priest, or sacraments, or a "church", or a denomination, or charismatic 'gifts' or baptism or hierarchal permission, sanction nor absolution ...
“Jesus, I believe you died so I could rape and murder all those women, and get “saved” right before the state fries me”.
Signed: Ted Bundy
Your snarkiness aside, yes, even you, too can be saved throught the redemption offered by Jesus. And Jesus Christ offers his saving grace to all, including the Ted Bundy’s of the world. Dude, if the likes of a Ted Bundy can be saved, through the grace of Jesus Christ, then surely He can welcome you, too, through the narrow gate. God’s grace is beyond human comprehension. Just go with it and believe.
Your ancestors ate the manna in the desert, but they died;
this is the bread that comes down from heaven so that one may eat it and not die.
I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world.”
The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us (his) flesh to eat?”
Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.
For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.
Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me.
This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever.”
These things he said while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum
Then many of his disciples who were listening said, “This saying is hard; who can accept it?”
Since Jesus knew that his disciples were murmuring about this, he said to them, “Does this shock you?
What if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before?
It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
But there are some of you who do not believe.” Jesus knew from the beginning the ones who would not believe and the one who would betray him.
And he said, “For this reason I have told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by my Father.”
As a result of this, many (of) his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him
Jesus then said to the Twelve, “Do you also want to leave?”
Simon Peter answered him, “Master, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.
We have come to believe and are convinced that you are the Holy One of God.”
Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you twelve? Yet is not one of you a devil?”
He was referring to Judas, son of Simon the Iscariot; it was he who would betray him, one of the Twelve. [John 6: 49-71]
I think they KEY phrase in your statement is 'call on HIM'. How one defines that phrase makes all the difference.
Ted Bundy fried like a crispy critter and his soul continues to fry in hell . Same thing with Jeffrey Dalhmer, John Wayne Gacy, and the rest of the death row conversions. Christ is a just God, but stupid he’s not. Different story for Karla Faye Tucker. She turned his life over to God and was indeed a different person when she left this world. Her actions years before her death attest to his faith and saving grace from God.
Several years ago at a “International Association of Near Death Studies” (IANDS) conference in Durham NC a retired military guy told his story of dying on the operating table at Duke Medical Center. He was having a lung removed due to cancer.
It really freaked out the Dr’s as this man was talking while he was flatlined. Ends up that at the moment of his death, he turned to Jesus and asked forgiveness for all the mistakes he had made during his life. His prayers were answered and he was healed. He was told that he had ten more years to live.
He had the letters with him from the surgeons who were working on him at the time of his death.
It moved me so much I think I will go back and get a video of his presentation.
So ... yeah.
How much love does your god have ?
And ... when does He stop loving you enough to save you ?
Repentance is optional?
We may not be in basic disagreement. While being crucified, Jesus turned to the thief next to him and said he would join Him in heaven. Even at the moment of one’s last breath, it is possible for the mercy of God to prevail over our sinful heart and sin filled past. God bless you and your family.
In Deuteronomy 4:19 and Malachi 1:11 God claims everyone can be saved.
“He who has believed and been baptized shall be saved; but he who has not believed shall be condemned.” - Mark 16:16
“Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you - not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience - through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.” 1 Peter 3:21
If I am a theif and I like to steal, I feel no compunction nor academic reason to stop
Repentence is coming to the realization I'm wrong to steal (a change of mind .. direction)
Repentence alone does no good unless you direct your repentent heart and desire(s) towards someone that can help you FROM where you are.
“and moments before he died, he got saved.”
The story is absolutely true - and far less clear than you make it sound. “Paradise” is not necessarily Heaven, and Christ wasn’t going to Heaven on Good Friday. He only went to Heaven (as far as we know) at the Ascension. The Good Thief, known to tradition as St. Dismas, may have gone to a natural paradise rather than the abode of God. He was saved from hell fire - of that there can be no doubt - but exactly where he ended up is unclear.
“even you, too can be saved throught the redemption offered by Jesus.”
That’s what makes the Catholic religion so convent. Do
whatever you want. Kill, drink, have extramarital affairs,
steal, rape and plunder. As long as you make it to
confession your forgiven. /src./.
You can even openly practice homosexuality and the church
will embrace you and forgive you and let you continue to
be a priest. /nonsarc/.
” Jesus turned to the thief next to him and said he would join Him in heaven.”
No, Jesus said “Paradise”. He did not say Heaven and Jesus did not go to Heaven that day. And he said to him, Truly, I say to you, TODAY you will be with me in PARADISE (Luke 23:32-43).
Words are important. ALL mankind has been redeemed through Christ taking on the punishment for the sins of the world. Salvation is the gift offered that people can choose to accept, or not.
Redemption <> salvation.
“You don’t need a priest, or sacraments, or a “church”, or a denomination, or charismatic ‘gifts’ or baptism or hierarchal permission, sanction nor absolution ...”
“Jesus said to them again, Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you. When he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.
The question is not “why do Catholics confess to priests”? The question is why do non Catholics NOT confess to priests.
“the thief on the cross did SOMEthing to get capital punishment”
You have no idea why he was hanging on that cross. Could have been for stealing a piece of bread.
Someone wrote to me at FR once and asked 'if he/she names this Jesus as his/her savior, will the God of Jesus have his her back?' Sadly, the reason for being born again is still not understood, for someone to ask such a question. God is not a man's/woman's servant that He should 'have your back'. If this were the meaning of Salvation, God would be reduced to countering the evil, making God reactive, not Creative. God has a plan to continue His Creation through The Grace of God in Christ. 'Having your back' would halt His creating and render God an assistant. THAT is not the nature of God.
The Grace of God in Christ makes one a new creation in a 'place/way' where satan cannot destroy you and God does not have to 'have your back'. If you meet a professing Christian who is caught in a 'sin-spiral' you may conclude one of two things: either the person is not faithing (action word, daily walk) in Christ, or satan sees that one as a mighty enemy in the making and is trying to blunt the God-use of that one ahead.
Amen ... but too many have no idea whom Karla Faye is.
So the questions must be asked which RCs ignore:
1. Consistent with your literal interpretation here, no one can have spiritual life in them and eternal if they do not believe in the Catholic real presence, correct ?
2. Where in Scripture (even though that is not your real basis for assurance) did the apostles preach taking part in the Lord's supper in order to gain spiritual life in them? Or where does it show believers being ? Or show souls not being born again, thus having spiritual life in them, until they took part in the Lord's supper?
3. Where in all the aspects which John writes of in 1 John so that souls may know they have eternal life (cf. 5:13) does he teach that receiving the Catholic real presence is that means?
4. Where are the verses in John 6 that you listed infallibly interpreted, or is this something you can disagree refers to the Catholic real presence (i say "Catholic," because evidently it was the Anglicans that first began using the phrase)
Anyone on your list can fill in for you. But if you respond, this time refrain from resorting to your perfunctory images as a substitute for an argument.
Jesus said to them again, Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you. And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.
Maybe you should read up on the life of Paul(Saul)before his conversion on the road to Damascus if you are in question of the scope of God’s salvation. In my experience, people who immediately bring up mass murders in a discussion of salvation are gambling on the misconception that since they didn’t commit “those” sins they are good to go.
Besides RC priests being mostly lost via a false gospel, one reason is that hiereus is never used for NT pastors, nor does it mean presbuteros or episkopeō , despite entomology based on imposed functional equivalence (and all believers offer sacrifice and make up the general priesthood" (1Pt. 2:5,9)).
And Peter told Simon to ask God himself for forgiveness, (Acts 8:22) though intercession by the church elders can be efficacious (not as in the Last Rites), (Ja. 5:14-16) as well as by others. And binding and loosing is seen in exercising judgement in discipline. (1Cor. 5)
Very well said. Amen.
I don’t think you should (I don’t know the word for it) mock pray? for NKP, that seems very wrong.
I have no idea where Ted Bundy’s soul is and I don’t claim to be less than a sinner than he was, but I can see where NKP is coming from. It seems like a little game that a lot feel they can play with the almighty by having a deathbed conversion. I’ll leave it to God who’s forgiven and who’s not, but you are bordering on preaching cheap grace if you are out saying you can outsmart God and his system.
What does NKP stand for?
People's seeming confidence to speak on these things always astounds me.
I too am thankful to God for the Sacrament of Confession.
This, to me, is an example of standing before men as a sinner to confess God, and this means something— it means by so doing that He will not deny me unto salvation.
It is much more UNcomfortable than going forward in a revival setting with a coliseum full of happy supporters, loud music, on an emotional high.
It was "today," but he would be with Jesus, and Paul said paradise was the third Heaven, (2Cor. 2,4) not a natural one, while the Lord first descended first into the lower parts of the earth," before He ascended. (Ephesians 4:8-9) And which it is supposed that OT saints went, as they could not go directly into glory, not due to a lack on their part, but bcz "the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing," (Hebrews 9:8) "for it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. " (Hebrews 10:4)
But when Christ made the perfect atonement, "the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom" when Christ made the atonement for our sins, (Mt. 27:51) then descended first into the lower parts of the earth? " (Ephesians 4:8-9) and then behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. " (Matthew 27:51-53)
Thus "paradise" would be the third Heaven, the thief being with Christ who set the OT free and ascended to glory. And thus as affirmed in the NT when specifically speaking of the postmortem place of the elect, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. (2Cor. 5:8; Phil. 1:21-23; Acts 7:59) And thus living believers would go to be with the Lord if He returns in their lifetime. (1Ths. 4:7)
Some here is speculation, but it is a reasonable conclusion.
True, (Acts 16:31) but the kind of faith that is efficacious is one that comes out of a contrite heart that God has opened,
The Lord is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit. (Psalms 34:18)
And the faith is that in the risen Lord Jesus to save you as a damned+destitute sinner, who thus confesses Christ, though the confession of Christ, which baptism is, does not save or earn one salvation. But which obedience manifests true faith, and includes repentance when convicted of not obeying.
Repentance is implicit in Biblical believing, as you can no more believe in the Lord Jesus and not have it effect your conduct, than one can believe in Muhammad and not effect changes.
Which is why i added my comment. But while RCs (if not you) are prone to charge sola fide with preaching a cheap grace, "easy believism" is what Rome most examples, as her faith as manifest by her works, is that even notorious liberal RCs are to be treated as members in life and in death.
Moreover, rather than the easy believism Rome associates with sola fide, in Puritan Protestantism there was often a tendency to make the way to the cross too narrow, perhaps in reaction against the Antinomian controversy as described in an account (http://www.the-highway.com/Early_American_Bauckham.html) of Puritans during the early American period that notes,
They had, like most preachers of the Gospel, a certain difficulty in determining what we might call the conversion level, the level of difficulty above which the preacher may be said to be erecting barriers to the Gospel and below which he may be said to be encouraging men to enter too easily into a mere delusion of salvation. Contemporary critics, however, agree that the New England pastors set the level high. Nathaniel Ward, who was step-son to Richard Rogers and a distinguished Puritan preacher himself, is recorded as responding to Thomas Hookers sermons on preparation for receiving Christ in conversion with, Mr. Hooker, you make as good Christians before men are in Christ as ever they are after, and wishing, Would I were but as good a Christian now as you make men while they are preparing for Christ.
Isn't that the Catholic position??? As long as you get baptized by the time you hit the deathbed you're good to go???
When Jesus went out into the highways and byways to save souls, he excluded older people because they have sinned for too long???
Old sinners can't become Catholics??? Just young sinners???
What kind of unbiblical religion you got going on there???
If you have put enough faith in Jesus that you believe he has the power to save you, that is repentance enough...
Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you - not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience - through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. 1 Peter 3:21
YOu might want to read that again...In the first verse if you remove the believe, but still get baptized, you are condemned...
The second verse eliminates any kind of baby baptism so that illegitimizes baby baptism for all Catholics baptized as babies...
So he didn't end up in Hell, but he may not have made it to heaven...HaHaHa...Didn't realize there was a 3rd option...That must be a Catholic thing cuz it's certainly not a bible thing...
We have a part to do also. Yes, Jesus died for our sins, but that doesn't mean we can go off committing adultery, murder, having abortions, not caring about our parents, not going to church on Saturday or Sunday. We MUST do our part too.
Can We Lose Our Salvation?
Baptism and Salvation
A Summary of our Salvation A Meditation on the Readings from the 4th Sunday of Advent
On the Beauty of God's Plan of Salvation
GOP's salvation lies in being more 'Catholic'
Catholic Bishop: Voting for Obama, Dems Could Place Salvation of Your Own Soul in Serious Jeopardy
On Infant Baptism and the Complete Gratuity of Salvation
Essays for Lent/Easter: Salvation Outside the Church?
The Question of Universal Salvation: Will All Be Saved?
"There Can Be No Rupture in Salvation History" [Benedict XVI to Jewish Community in Germany]
The Catholic Teaching on Salvation by Faith Alone (Catholic / Orthodox Caucus)
Promising Salvation to Non-Catholics: A Sin against Charity
On Being Sober and Serious in Seeking Salvation
[CATHOLIC CAUCUS] Benedict XVI at Angelus: Mary's mission of salvation and intercession continues..
Finders Keepers? - The Evangelical notion that Christians can't lose their salvation is unbiblical.
Fresh Embrace of Everlasting Salvation [New Mass Translation Does Away With "Barbecue Talk"]
Marriage is instrument of salvation for society, declares Benedict XVI
Catholic and Protestant "Similarities" on Faith, Faith Alone, Salvation...
Radio Replies Second Volume - Salvation of the Soul
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Salvation: A Biblical Portrait
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Salvation: "Being Saved"
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Catholic Response to "Are You Saved?"
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Knowledge of Salvation
A note from Roy Schoeman... (author of 'Salvation is from the Jews')
Radio Replies First Volume - Grace and salvation
Radio Replies First Volume - "Outside the Church no salvation"
Salvation - Are You Saved?
No Salvation Outside the Church
Prayer the Great Means of Salvation: Ch.1: The Necessity of Prayer, Sect. 3 Invocation of the Saints
Prayer the Great Means of Salvation: Chapter 1: The Necessity of Prayer, Section 2
Prayer: The Great Means of Salvation and of Perfection Ch. 1: The Necessity of Prayer, Section 1
What does the Catholic Church mean by the phrase, "Outside the Church there is no salvation"
Christian, I Presume? (Salvation) [Ecumenical]
Rock Solid: The Salvation History of the Catholic Church [Ecumenical]
Who Can Be Saved?
Grace, Faith, and Works
Getting in Touch With Reality (good character and behavior as a ticket to Heaven)
My Personal Savior
The Early Church Fathers on Salvation Outside the Church [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]
Extra ecclesiam - Outside the Church there is no salvation.M.a
Is Faith Necessary for Salvation? (Part 2)
Good Will Equals Salvation? (Did the pope say non christians could be saved - part 1)
The Experience of the Salvation of Christ Today
Nonbelievers Too Can Be Saved, Says Pope
Worthy Is the Lamb?
Limbo and the Hope of Salvation
But the thief on the Cross did something.
First, he rebuked his fellow criminal — a good thing to do.
Secondly, he asked for Jesus to remember him when he came into his kingdom that day.
He didn’t just hang there and do nothing.....he did two very important things.
In other words, Jesus can’t do all your work for you!
Repentance is an act. It means getting down on your knees and asking forgiveness. Haven’t you ever asked for forgiveness from your spouse? Parent? Friend?
For Catholic repentance means getting down on our knees too and confessing our sins to another human being. We have a better deal than you do, for the priest is acting as Christ, alter Christus, the power five to him at his ordination that goes all the way back to Christ breathing on the Apostles and telling them that they can forgive or hold bound sins.
Catechism of the Catholic Church
1449 The formula of absolution used in the Latin Church expresses the essential elements of this sacrament: the Father of mercies is the source of all forgiveness. He effects the reconciliation of sinners through the Passover of his Son and the gift of his Spirit, through the prayer and ministry of the Church:
God, the Father of mercies,
” Even at the moment of ones last breath, it is possible for the mercy of God to prevail over our sinful heart and sin filled past.”
If true contrition is in the heart of the sinner when asking for forgiveness.
Otherwise, its just words and gets you nowhere.
A non-Catholic CAN go in and talk with the priest, but the full benefits of the Sacrament will not be available to him. I’ve known several non-Catholics at retreats who have gone in and talked with the priest during the Confession time. (Usually on Saturday night.)
And paradise was where all the souls of the faithful from the Old Testament were waiting. Catholics call this waiting place Purgatory, correct?
Yes, it is a Bible thing, because Christ was the first one into heaven.