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Does Francis have a Marxism problem?
Crisis Magazine ^ | 1/10/14 | David Byrne

Posted on 01/12/2014 11:54:16 AM PST by DavidThomas

Last November Pope Francis issued his apostolic exhortation Evangelii Gaudium (The Joy of the Gospel) and it immediately met resistance from some conservatives who charged Francis with Marxism. Francis denied the accusations, insisting there was nothing in the exhortation that contradicted the Church’s teaching on social doctrine. The attention brought to Marxism in the Catholic world provides an opportunity to explain what Marxism is before determining if Francis adopted Marxist positions. The term has become pejorative, but I want to be as fair as possible when describing the most powerful intellectual system since Christianity.

Marxism as an Economic System Marx’s descriptions of capitalism are the deepest and most profound part of his voluminous writings. For Marx, the capitalist system is based on free trade and it is ruled by the bourgeoisie class, or those in Marxist lingo those who control the modes of production. The modes of production include labor (workers), capital (money) and the instruments of production (technology). The bourgeoisie uses these modes of production to coerce the proletariat, the working class. Society is dominated by the struggle between these two antagonistic classes, or the dialectic. In Marx’s times, the bourgeoisie were the factory owners and the proletariat the factory workers, but today, Marx’s ideas are easily applied to the rich and poor, irrespective of their labor.

For Marx, capitalism is a malignant economic system based on exploitation. The dehumanized worker exists merely so he can increase the profits of the bourgeoisie. The worker is alienated from his labor since he has no control over the commodities he produces. Capitalism breeds social alienation, too, since class stratification alienates us from each other. We merely exist as economic units. Contrary to what those living in capitalist societies are taught to believe, there is little freedom in capitalism. This naivety to the true nature of capitalism Marx calls false consciousness.

Capitalism is so powerful, it is the root of all realty. Philosophers call the study of reality metaphysics and Marx’s metaphysics can be defined in two words: Economic determinism. All history, political systems, ideas, morality, religion, elections, laws, war and vast amounts of other human behavior are guided by economics. In twenty-first century American political discourse, this means wars are fought for oil, the wealthy create laws in their interests and corporations give us the news they want us to hear. We are all slaves to the economic interests of the wealthy. Maybe the best way to understand economic determinism is to realize it is merely the idea that God controls most events turned on its head. Economics is providential, argues Marx, guiding all reality.

Economics even provides the foundation for religion. Marx, an atheist, believed religion is foisted on society by the wealthy in an effort to propagate false consciousness. He called religion the opium of the masses because it distracts us from the harsh realities of life. In one of his earliest works, On the Jewish Question, Marx declared that money had become the jealous God of Israel, before whom no other God was allowed. Christianity is no better. The ruling classes propagate Christianity, rationalizing that the hardships of this world as merely preparation for the next one. Christianity condones capitalism and exploitation by promising us something better in the next world.

But there is good news for Marx: Despite its apparent strength, the capitalist system is inherently self-destructive. Latent contradictions will undermine this capitalist superstructure, the social consequences of the capitalist system. Laws, religion, education and all social phenomena result from the doomed capitalist superstructure. Why doomed? Because the bourgeoisie, in an effort to maximize profits, will consistently invest in technology since it’s cheaper than human labor in the long-run. Even today, corporations rely on machines as substitutes for workers because machines don’t require wages, healthcare and can work twenty-four hours a day. This has a human cost, however. Marx predicts rising unemployment and a growing gap between the rich and the poor. As capitalism intensifies, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

Eventually the workers will gain class consciousness (as opposed to false consciousness) and recognize their mutual interest. They will unify, revolt and bring down the entire capitalism behemoth. Revolution! The capitalist superstructure will surrender to a socialist one, or a worker dominated economic system. This is not the final stage of economic history (and here Marx gets notoriously vague) but socialism will finally transform into communism, a world without classes, a world where:

The proletariat … will thereby have abolished its own supremacy as a class. In place of the old bourgeois society, with its classes and class antagonisms, we shall have an association in which the free development of each is the condition for the free development of all.

True freedom exists when people collectively organize society without private property.

Marxism as a Political System Marx prophesized a violent transition from capitalism to socialism since the bourgeoisie would not surrender easily. Apocalypse looms as the class struggle reaches an Armageddon-esque climax:

[The workers] direct their attacks not against the bourgeois conditions of production, but against the instruments of production themselves; they destroy imported wares that compete with their labor, they smash to pieces machinery, they set factories ablaze, they seek to restore by force the vanished status of the workman of the Middle Age.

After Armageddon, a new world order emerges as government is guided by the proletariat. The meek will inherit the Earth. Marx describes a dictatorship of the proletariat when the working classes rule society under socialist auspices. During this era, new ways of thinking and living occur as the superstructure shifts from capitalism to socialism. As described above, socialism is a temporary measure as ultimately the state will wither away leading to glorious communism (Marx is vague how long this takes to happen). Communism is a political system without government and classes, a world void of free-trade, private property, classes and exploitation. It is the end of history, the end of all human progress.

For Marx, capitalist nations are not democracies. They are oligarchies created for the rich, by the rich. America’s founding fathers were hardly economically impoverished, after all. George Washington’s wealth rivaled that of the Kennedy’s. John Hancock was the richest man in Boston. The Adams and Jefferson’s were the Donald Trumps of their day. Naturally, they established political systems which favor them, Marxists insist. Characteristics of this bourgeoisie political system include: voting, a chief executive, equal rights, parliament, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, constitutions and what Marx calls the most unconscionable of all freedoms, free trade. For Marx, these are merely hallmarks of bourgeoisie oligarchy.

True democracy—a political system for the masses—exists in socialism. This explains why East Germany called itself the German Democratic Republic. Marxists contend Americans have been brainwashed by the wealthy. Real democracy exists in a socialist society, a society not controlled by the economic elites.

Marxism and Liberation Theology These ideas that socialism promotes freedom more than capitalism seems oxymoronic to most Americans, but they guide Liberation Theology, a movement aimed at enriching the poor by “liberating” them from existing social structures. Particularly popular in Latin America, it was founded by Peruvian Dominican Father Gustavo Gutierrez. He contends his theology liberates the poor from unjust economic conditions by making profound changes to the entire social order, even changes in the way people think because they are shaped by material conditions. Class struggle and economic determinism are so central to Gutierrez, he argues economics shapes people’s spiritual life. In other words, our spiritual health is economically determined.

Another leading Liberation Theologian, Brazilian and former Franciscan Leonardo Boff, alleged the Catholic Church is analogous to the capitalist class who controls the modes of production. The whole hierarchy needs reformation, he argued in Church: Charism and Power. Some of his ideas about Liberation Theology can be found in the January 1989 issue of Crisis. And Marxist language dominates the essay:

The Kingdom [of God] should always be considered dialectically. It builds on contradiction. This contradiction does not exist in its interior (in the heart) or in the exterior (in society) since it realizes both dimensions, but it exists in its frontal antagonism, the anti-Kingdom. The Kingdom, as we see in the practice of Jesus, builds itself against the anti-Kingdom. The goods of the Kingdom are the attitudes and their structures that produce more justice, more life, more possibility for freedom, for human beings and the forms of their interaction.

In a work published in 1987, he insisted that communist regimes in Eastern Europe promoted Gospel-living more so than Western capitalist ones since they have more economic equality. Again, economic conditions determine spiritual beliefs.

In 1984, Cardinal Ratzinger (later Pope Benedict) called Liberation Theology a “fundamental threat to the faith of the Church.” Ratzinger argued Marxists had infiltrated Catholic teachings by introducing some of the concepts described above, like class struggle and economic determinism. He reminds the faithful that God, not economics, guides history. He condemned the Liberation Theology tendency to subordinate Catholic teachings in favor of class-struggle. Liberation theologians focus so heavily on the poor, Ratzinger argued, they ignored the wealthy, thereby rejecting the universalness of Christ’s teachings. Yes, the poor will inherit the Earth, but that doesn’t mean God’s Kingdom is closed to those with power. As Cardinal, he sanctioned Boff, prompting Boff to later accuse Ratzinger of “religious terrorism.” (Boff left the clergy in the 1990s.)

I believe Liberation Theology is fundamentally an attempt to do what had previously been reserved for God: bringing about a new world order where the poor will be rewarded. Liberation Theology is the result of changing cultural and intellectual conditions over the past five hundred years: The first five thousand years of Western history were theo-centered times, when God (or gods) controlled all events, but our modern era is dominated by an anthro-centered view which sees humans as the main agents of change. Modern Western culture—even among some devout Christians—grants human beings tremendous amounts of agency in the world. Consequently Liberation Theologians want to establish a world where the last are first by employing human means, specifically those prescribed by Marxists. They lack patience.

How does this relate to Pope Francis? Some speculated that Cardinal Bergoglio’s election could pave the way for Liberation Theology to play a more powerful role in the Church. After all, Bergoglio hailed from South America and gained prominence in the Church for his work with the poor. The aforementioned Boff contended, “With this pope, a Jesuit and a pope from the Third World, we can breathe happiness. Pope Francis has both the vigor and tenderness that we need to create a new spiritual world.” And as pope, Francis met privately with Gutierrez in September, two months before the publication of his Evangelii Gaudium. But all of this doesn’t add up to Marxism or even Liberation Theology. The most immediate evidence his accusers have against him come from several passes in Evangelii Gaudium and. Francis declares in EG 202,

The need to resolve the structural causes of poverty cannot be delayed…. As long as the problems of the poor are not radically resolved by rejecting the absolute autonomy of markets and financial speculation and by attacking the structural causes of inequality, no solution will be found for the world’s problems or, for that matter, to any problems. Inequality is the root of social ills.

As an opponent of Liberation Theology, I slightly cringe when hearing terms like (super?) “structural causes” of poverty and the contention that economic factors by themselves are the root of the social ills, but Francis must know that social problems are not merely the result of economic inequality.

He continues in EG 204,

We can no longer trust in the unseen forces and the invisible hand of the market. Growth in justice requires more than economic growth, while presupposing such growth: it requires decisions, programs, mechanisms and processes specifically geared to a better distribution of income, the creation of sources of employment and an integral promotion of the poor which goes beyond a simple welfare mentality. I am far from proposing an irresponsible populism, but the economy can no longer turn to remedies that are a new poison, such as attempting to increase profits by reducing the work force and thereby adding to the ranks of the excluded.

What riled some conservatives was Francis’ critique of Adam Smith’s “invisible hand” and in EG 54, he questions “trickle-down” economics. Translations also matter and despite the fact that these translations come from the Vatican’s website, some maintain these passages have been mistranslated in English. Regardless and more importantly, none of this makes Francis a Marxist. However, if Francis wants to completely disassociate himself from Liberation Theology, I would advise against suggesting profits lead to some sort of exclusion (alienation?). This language slightly concerns me, but I say this cautiously because again, translation may be an issue. (We historians of thought recognize the thorny task of interpreting the ideas of someone else. Language is just one obstacle.)

Of course Francis is not a Marxist. Those who claim otherwise focus only on specific parts of a broader message and mistakenly associate Marxism with anti-Capitalism. I hope the first half of this essay showed Marxism is more than a criticism of capitalism. Francis does not preach revolution, a communist political system or atheism. In reality, the above-cited passages are just a few paragraphs from an eighty-four page document. And the Catholic Church, long before Marx, long before Liberation Theologians, dedicated itself to serving the poor. In another essay, I showed that Marx was shaped by Christian doctrine, so concordance between Marx and Francis are symptomatic of Christian influence on Marx, not vice versa. Even if I don’t like some of the concepts he employs, Francis’ ends are consistent with the Gospel and his means are not Marxist.

Attempting to alleviate poverty is noble, but I would caution anyone from arguing the capitalist system leads to poverty and that our spiritual health increases as we mitigate capitalism, like Liberation Theologians do. We live in a more materialistic time than Christ, but we can’t forget that His message was fundamentally spiritual. In the Sermon on the Mount He proclaims we do not increase our spiritual wealth by improving our material conditions, rather we improve our material conditions by seeking spiritual wealth:

Therefore do not worry, saying, “What will we eat?” or “What will we drink?” or “What will we wear?’”For it is the Gentiles who strive for all these things; and indeed your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. But strive first for the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.


TOPICS: Current Events; History; Religion & Culture; Theology
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1 posted on 01/12/2014 11:54:16 AM PST by DavidThomas
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To: DavidThomas

IMO yes and he will only turn on the ignorant. Makes it tough to be Catholic right now.


2 posted on 01/12/2014 11:57:52 AM PST by A CA Guy ( God Bless America, God Bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: DavidThomas

Yes, Captain Obvious. He most certainly does.


3 posted on 01/12/2014 11:58:39 AM PST by MIchaelTArchangel (Have a wonderful day!)
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To: DavidThomas

The more that governments and society take care of the needy, the less the church has to expend on those obligations.

It’s the reverse side of capitalism. Save your money by having government do the work.


4 posted on 01/12/2014 11:59:08 AM PST by gortklattu (God knows who is best, everybody else is making guesses - Tony Snow)
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To: DavidThomas

Yes, Captain Obvious. He most certainly does.

Next question, please.


5 posted on 01/12/2014 12:03:06 PM PST by MIchaelTArchangel (Have a wonderful day!)
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To: DavidThomas
the most powerful intellectual system since Christianity

Shaking my head. Since when did envy merit being called an intellectual system, much less a powerful one.

6 posted on 01/12/2014 12:05:38 PM PST by vbmoneyspender
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To: DavidThomas; Salvation

bookmark & ping ...


7 posted on 01/12/2014 12:10:38 PM PST by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free)
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To: DavidThomas
A friend of my mom was a nun In Brazil. Oh yeh....pure Marxist.

We are supposed to sell what we have and give it to the wanting...

Of course, Catholics have been supporting her all her life.

8 posted on 01/12/2014 12:12:14 PM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: DavidThomas

It’s a mistake to criticize a Pope’s pronouncements. It’s sort of like Bill O’Reilly challenging the Pope to “come on the Factor” and defend himself.


9 posted on 01/12/2014 12:14:31 PM PST by Tau Food (Never give a sword to a man who can't dance.)
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To: DavidThomas

Does Francis have a Marxism problem?

No, he does not.

“Ultimately, many believed Jesus was the one who had come to deliver them from the Roman oppressors. And yet others said, “Isn’t this the son of a carpenter?”

So too, many have misunderstood who this bouncer-turned-cardinal-turned-pope is. Some believe he has come to “at last” set the Church free from the patriarchal oppression of past popes. Others say he is the new champion of Liberation Theology.

Some say a conservative, others a liberal, still others a Marxist or one of the Communists.

But when Jesus asked who do you say that I am? Peter replied, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the Living God.”2

Who, really, is Pope Francis? In his own words, “I am a son of the Church.”

PREPARING FOR PASSION

After Jesus entered Jerusalem and the din of praise simmered, His true mission began to be revealed—to the dismay of the people. His first act was to cleanse the temple, overturning the tables of the money-changers and seats of the sellers. The very next thing?

The blind and the lame approached him in the temple area, and he cured them. (Matt 21:14)

After being elected, Pope Francis set about preparing his first Apostolic Exhortation, Evangelii Gaudium. In it, the Holy Father likewise began turning over the tables of the money-changers, attacking “an economy [that] kills” and the “dictatorship of an impersonal economy lacking a truly human purpose.”4 His words, based on the Church’s social doctrine, were an indictment particularly of “unbridled consumerism” and a corrupt stock exchange system that has created “a new tyranny” and a “deified market”, “a new idolatry of money” where “ethics has come to be viewed with a certain scornful derision.”5

His accurate and stinging depiction of the imbalance in wealth and power immediately (and predictably) drew the anger and ire of those who had only applauded him weeks before.

As for the Pope, he continued to shun opulence, choosing instead to be with the people.

I prefer a Church which is bruised, hurting and dirty because it has been out on the streets, rather than a Church which is unhealthy from being confined and from clinging to its own security. —POPE FRANCIS, Evangelii Gaudium, n. 49

It was after His entry into Jerusalem, also, that Jesus taught the “greatest commandment”: to “love the Lord, your God, with all your heart… and your neighbour as yourself.”6 Likewise, the Holy Father made “love of neighbour” through service to the poor and evangelization central themes of his Exhortation.

But after exhorting the people to live the great commandments, Jesus did something else seemingly out of character: he publicly denounced the Scribes and Pharisees in no uncertain terms calling them “hypocrites… blind guides… whitewashed tombs…” and took them to task for seeking titles,7 keeping silent,8 and self-indulgence.9

Likewise, the gentle Pope Francis has also boldly challenged those who have lost the meaning of authentic Christian love, most especially the clergy. He has admonished those who are “obsessed with the transmission of a disjointed multitude of doctrines to be imposed insistently.”10 He has criticized religious and clergy for buying new vehicles encouraging them to “choose a more humble one.”11 He has lamented those who take “over the space of the Church” for “programmes of self-help and self-realization” and12 churchmen with a “business mentality, caught up with management, statistics, plans and evaluations whose principal beneficiary is not God’s people but the Church as an institution.”13 He has called out the “worldliness” of the Church that leads to “complacency and self-indulgence.”14 He has framed homilists who do not properly prepare their sermons as being “dishonest and irresponsible” and even “a false prophet, a fraud, a shallow impostor.”15 He described those who promote and imbibe clericalism as “little monsters.”16 And, as for titles, Francis, in an effort to curb careerism in the Church, has abolished the honor of “Monsignor” for secular priests under the age of 65.17 Last, the Holy Father is planning to renovate the Curia, which no doubt, will upset the balance of power that has built-up over years among many “career Catholics.”

http://www.markmallett.com/blog/francis-and-the-coming-passion-of-the-church

The entire article is well worth the read. ;-)


10 posted on 01/12/2014 12:21:27 PM PST by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
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To: SumProVita

Thanks for that.


11 posted on 01/12/2014 12:26:58 PM PST by St_Thomas_Aquinas ( Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
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To: DavidThomas

Capitalism without God is just as bad as Socialism without God.

This is the root cause of many of our problems since the cultural revolution of the 1960’s.

The Pope is speaking on this just as JP2 called out Communism for its failures.


12 posted on 01/12/2014 12:28:02 PM PST by crusher2013
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To: DavidThomas

This is the first article I have read where the author has some idea of what Marxism was and is. All the others especially those who won’t read the article and respond to the headline and especially that much worshipped radio blabbermouth who declared that what the Pope expressed is “pure Marxism” speak out of nothing more or less but pure ignorance.


13 posted on 01/12/2014 12:30:49 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: DavidThomas

Somehow “income” is like the money on a collection plate, no one knows exactly where it comes from or what it took to produce it. The only question is how/who to “redistribute” this strange stuff called “income”.


14 posted on 01/12/2014 12:37:52 PM PST by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
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To: DavidThomas
Capitalism is so powerful, it is the root of all realty. Philosophers call the study of reality metaphysics and Marx’s metaphysics can be defined in two words: Economic determinism. All history, political systems, ideas, morality, religion, elections, laws, war and vast amounts of other human behavior are guided by economics.

Statements like this mean the writer s a philosophical quack. Capitalism is not God.

Capitalism is an economic system. It is not the root of reality. Saying otherwise proves you don't know what metaphysics is.

15 posted on 01/12/2014 12:43:00 PM PST by Bayard
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas

You are most welcome. It becomes more and more important to understand our times from a more spiritual perspective. :-)


16 posted on 01/12/2014 12:51:06 PM PST by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
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To: SumProVita

What a magnificent post!


17 posted on 01/12/2014 1:04:33 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated)
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To: DavidThomas

Capitalism is a political philosophy that privileges and promotes policies which benefit capital. Why anyone would worship that is mind-boggling to me.


18 posted on 01/12/2014 1:05:45 PM PST by Trailerpark Badass (There should be a whole lot more going on than throwing bleach, said one woman.)
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To: Trailerpark Badass

-— Why anyone would worship that is mind-boggling to me. -—

Capitalism is a pejorative Marxist term. What conservatives uphold is private property and the free market, which is simply people freely trading goods and services. Its part of the natural order.


19 posted on 01/12/2014 1:10:21 PM PST by St_Thomas_Aquinas ( Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas

Exactly, and it leads to the frightening concept of human “capital,” rather than free individuals making free moral choices.


20 posted on 01/12/2014 1:20:27 PM PST by Trailerpark Badass (There should be a whole lot more going on than throwing bleach, said one woman.)
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To: DavidThomas

No, there have been many articles that this assertion is incorrect.


21 posted on 01/12/2014 1:35:23 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: DavidThomas

No. He’s heavily influenced by Communion & Liberation, an Italian movement made up mostly of older academics and wealthy leftists, so he’s probably heavily skewed left - but he’s not a Marxist.

The thing that bothers me most about him is that he seems very government friendly. That is, most of the theft he complains about is done by governments in league with companies or wealthy individuals, such as Michelle Obama, who contracted her college buddy for the “Obamacare” website - a woman whose Canadian company had already been excluded from doing business with the Canadian government because of their screw-ups and overbilling. But the Pope will never notice that.

His problem is not that he’s a Marxist, but that he’s firmly stuck in the late 80s. This was a recovering time for the Church, after VII, but not a good time. He needs to move on.


22 posted on 01/12/2014 1:56:26 PM PST by livius
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To: Revolting cat!; DavidThomas
the author has some idea of what Marxism was and is

Yes. Hint: "sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have everlasting life" is not marxism.

It would also help if people understood what capitalism is. Hint 2: close a factory in Ohio and instead open one in China where communist government ensures low wage and no pollution laws, -- something nearly impossible without heavy involvement by both US and Chinese governments negotiating taxes and manipulating exchange rates, -- that systematic sale of our industrial base is not capitalism, not free market and not private enterprise.

23 posted on 01/12/2014 2:02:34 PM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: crusher2013; DavidThomas
Hey crusher, I think that's a key concept, that godless capitalism and godless communism are two rival systems of atheist materialism.

The "godless" part is the troublesome part, since any "system" will become a terrible engine of injustice if people are not converted, if they do not confess, repent their sins, and turn to God with all their hearts.

Of course, what we have now, at the top, all over the world, is "crony capitalism," the incestuous relationship between big business and big government. The government picks the winners and the losers, and the Fobes 500 line up at the government teats.

You've got favoritism in the distribution of legal permits, government grants, special tax breaks; government-funded research being privately and selectively appropriated; you've got "regulatory capture," in which businesses throttle the competition by entangling them in custom-made government-created obstacles; political donors are subsidized, awarded no-bid contracts, "stimulused" and bailed out, while political critics are tortured by the IRS and subjected to regulatory extermination.

This --- corporate welfare passing itself off as "capitalism" --- is a worldwide phenomenon.

24 posted on 01/12/2014 2:07:25 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (God's people want pastors, not clergy acting like bureaucrats or government officials. -Pope Francis)
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To: A CA Guy; MIchaelTArchangel

Not a soul had the mettle to read past the headline. Nice try.

The column deserved more than pop offs, to get the point that neither the Church nor the Pope are Marxist or Liberation Theology purveyors.


25 posted on 01/12/2014 2:35:21 PM PST by RitaOK ( VIVA CHRISTO REY / Public education is the farm team for more Marxists coming.)
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To: DavidThomas
There are two errors in this article.

1)Materialist philosophy is not the creation of the "proletariat," who historically have been too busy just making a living to engage in such intellectual abstraction. It is the creation of middle class or even wealthy intellectuals who have never had to worry about making a living.

2)The idea of the non-owning laboring classes being the force of teleological progress in history has long since given way to a sort of racial mysticism, in which the more melanin one possesses, the higher one's place in the hierarchy of the oppressed. Regardless of wealth or poverty, Asians are thus considered to the left of whites, Hispanics to the left of Asians, and Blacks as the absolute pinnacle of revolutionary action. Even illiterate Biblical Fundamentalists who are Black are considered to the left of Marx, to the left of Castro, to the left of Mao, to the left of Enver Hoxha. There is certainly no ridicule of Black religiosity on the Left, though granted, the Black clergy for the past few decades has shown no evidence of still believing in supernatural realities to begin with.

26 posted on 01/12/2014 2:44:15 PM PST by Zionist Conspirator (The Left: speaking power to truth since Shevirat HaKelim.)
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To: DavidThomas
In my opinion and mine alone, the Pope promulgates Liberation Theology that replaces the conviction of the Holy Spirit to move one to donate above and beyond the tithe in favor of forced redistribution. Now I'm not the brightest crayon in the box but that sounds pretty Marxist to me. Even those who have no religious or training in morality can be drawn into this anticapitalism. Take Barrack for example. Christian in name only [Having a form of godliness but denying the power there of, in other words a pretender) but decidedly very Marxist and suffers from either Che or Fidel envy. He learned his Liberation Theology and racism from Jeremiah Wright. Jeremiah Wright correctly teaches racism and class warfare since these are rooted in Liberation Theology and teaches nothing more than hate, envy and victim hood. Barrack eats this stuff for every meal. As a man thinks in his heart, so is he for where your heart is there is your treasure ( the most important motivation in your life).
27 posted on 01/12/2014 3:15:54 PM PST by cashless (Obama told us he would side with Muslims if the political winds shifted in an ugly direction. Ready?)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Mrs. Don-o,

I head that concept once from a radio minister, so it certainly is not original with me. But I do think it helps explain things a bit.

Most Business people I know are good hardworking Americans who love their country.

But plenty at the top of multi-nationals do not put American or the American people first. That is clear.

I’m all for a free market, but despise crony capitalism.


28 posted on 01/12/2014 3:39:40 PM PST by crusher2013
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To: DavidThomas; Colonel_Flagg
What riled some conservatives was Francis’ critique of Adam Smith’s “invisible hand” and in EG 54, he questions “trickle-down” economics. Translations also matter and despite the fact that these translations come from the Vatican’s website, some maintain these passages have been mistranslated in English. Regardless and more importantly, none of this makes Francis a Marxist. However, if Francis wants to completely disassociate himself from Liberation Theology, I would advise against suggesting profits lead to some sort of exclusion (alienation?). This language slightly concerns me, but I say this cautiously because again, translation may be an issue. (We historians of thought recognize the thorny task of interpreting the ideas of someone else. Language is just one obstacle.)

Of course Francis is not a Marxist. Those who claim otherwise focus only on specific parts of a broader message and mistakenly associate Marxism with anti-Capitalism. I hope the first half of this essay showed Marxism is more than a criticism of capitalism. Francis does not preach revolution, a communist political system or atheism. In reality, the above-cited passages are just a few paragraphs from an eighty-four page document. And the Catholic Church, long before Marx, long before Liberation Theologians, dedicated itself to serving the poor. In another essay, I showed that Marx was shaped by Christian doctrine, so concordance between Marx and Francis are symptomatic of Christian influence on Marx, not vice versa. Even if I don’t like some of the concepts he employs, Francis’ ends are consistent with the Gospel and his means are not Marxist.

IBTPWM

29 posted on 01/12/2014 3:46:10 PM PST by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: DavidThomas

France has a French problem.


30 posted on 01/12/2014 4:01:02 PM PST by Noumenon (Resistance. Restoration. Retribution.)
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To: DavidThomas

So, the pope is against “unbridled capitalism” and he is not impressed with trickle-down economics, but that does not make him a Marxist or even a believer in Liberation Theology.


31 posted on 01/12/2014 4:03:01 PM PST by Fishing-guy
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To: DavidThomas

Yes, Pope Francis has adopted the Marxist “liberation theology” heresy. And he will use the power of the Vatican to spread it far and wide.


32 posted on 01/12/2014 4:45:26 PM PST by MasterGunner01
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To: SumProVita

God Bless You! The ones bashing the Pope are the same ones bashing the Catholic Church even before the Pope. It is so frustrating to see such ignorance on Free Republic.


33 posted on 01/12/2014 4:50:39 PM PST by napscoordinator ( Santorum-Bachmann 2016 for the future of the country!)
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To: Bayard

Capitalism isn’t really an ism.

Capitalism is what happens when people are free.

Which means the Catholic Church SHOULD support it.

Unfortunately, there is a long tradition of bishops and priests having absolutely no clue when it comes to economic activity or human freedom.


34 posted on 01/12/2014 6:47:50 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: Bayard

Capitalism isn’t really an ism.

Capitalism is what happens when people are free.

Which means the Catholic Church SHOULD support it.

Unfortunately, there is a long tradition of bishops and priests having absolutely no clue when it comes to economic activity or human freedom.


35 posted on 01/12/2014 6:47:50 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: DavidThomas

I think Francis is a Marxist with a Catholic problem.


36 posted on 01/12/2014 7:41:11 PM PST by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Arthur McGowan

I agree there is a lot to be said for ignorance, especially in the clergy. saying capitalism is not an “ism” is however, a syncretization of separated ideas. These things may compliment each other, but economics is certainly not metaphysics, or politics, or morality, or anthropology.

What you claim to be capitalism is another philosophy.


37 posted on 01/12/2014 8:37:55 PM PST by Bayard
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To: Bayard

Capitalism is not an ideology cooked up by an academic. It is, precisely as I said, what happens when people are free to engage in labor, industry, and trade.

Why people make the economic decisions they make, when they are free, has been studied and subjected to rigorous rational analysis. The result is Austrian economics.

And Austrian economics is not an ideology. It is a true science, unlike the ideologies of statism and collectivism, which are merely expressions of the will, on the part of some, to steal and to kill.

Most of what passes for “Catholic Social Teaching,” in the realm of economic activity, amounts mostly to whining about the presence of poverty and suffering in the world, in language that is increasingly apt for exploitation by...plunderers and killers—i.e., statists and collectivist.

If the Church, especially Popes, would anchor their “social teaching” firmly in the Commandments—i.e., in sound principles regarding prohibited and praiseworthy actions—rather than painting pictures of DESIRED OUTCOMES, a “better future,” they would be teaching something of great value. What one usually encounters nowadays when the topic is “social teaching” and “social justice” is elaborate Utopian visions, consisting either of Marxism with all the corpses papered over, or nostalgia for everything from the “guild system” to the First New Deal.


38 posted on 01/12/2014 9:17:36 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: Bayard

BTW: Yes. Francis DOES have a “Marxism Problem.”

The problem is that he fails to condemn Marxism in all its variants and manifestations every time he opens his mouth.

He should never utter a syllable about helping the poor without in the same breath condemning Marxism and all other forms of statism. That he fails to do so renders everything he says fodder for the statists. I do not expect him to understand this. He shows very little, if any, foresight concerning the exploitation of his words by the pro-abortionists, the collectivists, the statists, etc., etc.


39 posted on 01/12/2014 9:21:32 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: Tau Food

Tenth Commandment: Do not covet. This pope evidently sees covetousness as a virtue. Or he’s incredibly naïve relative to human nature.


40 posted on 01/13/2014 7:44:40 AM PST by onedoug
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To: DavidThomas

Quite soon, I’m sure, the liberal Catholics of this land will struggle to see what is actually wrong with Marxism––after all, they will tell us, Karl Marx did care for the poor. And besides, he was for Socialism, and what’s wrong with Socialism they will ask. This pope is actually already there; he’s really just waiting for his supporters to catch up with him.

The Catholic Church that many of us once knew as children has been overshadowed by the Modernist teachings growing out of the Second Vatican Council. No longer do our popes and bishops teach the children of God to rely on God for their needs; they are taught to depend on government and the good offices of the Catholic community for all their wants and needs.

The popes and bishops proudly boast of the resources they have redistributed to the “government-defined poor” that they have gathered from the faithful in the pews. They tell the media that the Church should be “measured’ by how much “good” that they have done in “feeding the poor”. The faithful are encouraged to believe that their salvation will depend largely on their participation in the Churches effort to redistribute wealth.

Anyone who is unable to see that there is little difference between the liberals of our society (the media or the politicians) and the Modernist bishops of the Catholic Church, is simply in denial.

There once was a day when the popes, bishops and priests saw the mission of the Catholic Church as being that of leading all mankind to salvation. They taught the faithful to keep the Commandments; to love the Lord with all of their heart, mind and soul, and to love their neighbor as themselves. Today they teach them to get on board with the various politicly correct policies such as supporting Obamacare; granting amnesty for illegals; believing in man-made global warming; demanding more welfare for the government-defined poor, and so forth.

But they say not a word about the sinfulness of homosexual behavior; living together without the benefit of marriage; practicing artificial birth control; attending weekly Mass; believing in the Real Presence; confessing their sins at Confession on a regular basis. And one could go on and on. I say this with great sadness, but this pope and most of our bishops are a disgrace.

Many people, I realize, will be fooled by them and as a result, a great number of souls will be lost. But in the end, God will demanding an accounting from all.


41 posted on 01/13/2014 10:38:28 AM PST by tomsbartoo (St Pius X watch over us)
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To: DavidThomas

It’s possible to criticize the excesses of cutthroat capitalism and at the same time condemn liberation theology because John Paul did it. Does anyone remember in Brazil John Paul shaking his finger at Fr. Leonardo Boff who was a proponent of liberation theology? It kind of surprises me that any criticism of capitalism is so often immediately met with the term “Marxism”. I’m a capitalist, but we can’t have an idolatry of the capitalistic system to the point that it’s “Marxism” to criticize its shortcomings. We can’t make an idol of capitalism.


42 posted on 01/13/2014 2:32:39 PM PST by MDLION ("Trust in the Lord with all your heart" -Proverbs 3:5)
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To: DavidThomas

bkmk


43 posted on 01/14/2014 11:01:19 AM PST by AllAmericanGirl44
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