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Scientists Claim That Quantum Theory Proves Consciousness Moves To Another Universe At Death
Spirit, Science and Metaphysics ^

Posted on 01/17/2014 7:43:11 PM PST by DaveMSmith

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To: spirited irish
As you are endowed with will (which options 1 & 2 deny as there is no source for will), the choice is yours to make.

If I am endowed with will, I don't see any reason why I have to choose only the options you give me.

151 posted on 01/20/2014 9:36:58 AM PST by tacticalogic
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To: tacticalogic

If it were only Spirited ‘giving’ those options then you would be correct. Many of us here at FR ascribe to the belief that it is God Who gives those options and gives you the sovereign right to choose, thus He is Just.


152 posted on 01/20/2014 9:39:54 AM PST by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: MHGinTN
If it were only Spirited ‘giving’ those options then you would be correct. Many of us here at FR ascribe to the belief that it is God Who gives those options and gives you the sovereign right to choose, thus He is Just.

He pinged me to the thread, and replied to the post. How should I address the reply to be appropriately inclusive?

153 posted on 01/20/2014 9:51:00 AM PST by tacticalogic
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To: DaveMSmith

Not sure if this is the right place for it... But here’s my theory.

The Universe teems with life. The physical manifestation we experience is all of that Spirit life taking physical form. If the physical form is damaged, that connection from Spirit to Flesh can get garbled or broken entirely.

Take into consideration modern neuroscience. When our physical selves are damaged, it can lead to everything from aberrant behavior to various types of aphasia, dysarthria, or various types of synesthesia. Remapping those damaged areas, or even bridging them, restores normal function as our “connection” with the flesh is repaired.

It’s like the old saying, “the lights are on, but no ones home.” With damage/mutation to our physical selves, it’s like we’re trying to get in the house, but our keys no longer work.

From what we know of information at the quantum level, it’s to all intents and purposes infinitely dense. More than enough space for us all to experience as “heaven”, or “hell” in all its forms.

Not sure I explained that as elegantly as I could have, but there it is...


154 posted on 01/20/2014 9:53:14 AM PST by Dead Corpse (I will not comply.)
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To: tacticalogic

If I am endowed with will, I don’t see any reason why I have to choose only the options you give me.

Spirited: Playing the victim is so very obviously your favorite role. Have you awarded yourself an Oscar for it as yet?


155 posted on 01/20/2014 10:01:04 AM PST by spirited irish
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To: spirited irish

Do you really want to start with the personal attacks here?


156 posted on 01/20/2014 10:02:48 AM PST by tacticalogic
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To: tacticalogic

The impersonal ones should be sufficient.

This entire thread is based on unmeasurables that are also undefinable.


157 posted on 01/20/2014 10:29:09 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
The impersonal ones should be sufficient.

Sufficient for what?

158 posted on 01/20/2014 11:16:24 AM PST by tacticalogic
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To: YHAOS
Yes. My only point is that most everyone accepts the idea that some things are non-materialistic so long as those things are not “God related” (especially in the Judeo-Christian Tradition).
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Wonder what the non-materialists do with .........

1) art...
2) prose....
3) poetry(haiku)...
4) music.... and singing...
5) fictional images... (legend) (stories).. even sci-fi..
6) love, emotion, hate.... forgiveness... gratitude..
7) marriage...

Note: things animals cannot do... or are even aware of..
things of a "spiritual nature"..
***

159 posted on 01/20/2014 12:33:40 PM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
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To: Candor7

Scientists talk about it practitioners do it. It is always fun to see “new” discoveries in science, like sub-atomic particles, that were well described centuries ago.


160 posted on 01/20/2014 1:46:41 PM PST by TigersEye (Stupid is a Progressive disease.)
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To: tacticalogic

yes


161 posted on 01/20/2014 1:46:54 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: hosepipe
things animals cannot do... or are even aware of.. things of a "spiritual nature"..

MAybe they DO know and ARE aware; but are withholding the information from us...?

162 posted on 01/20/2014 1:48:32 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: tacticalogic; spirited irish
If I am endowed with will, I don't see any reason why I have to choose only the options you give me.

OK. Propose your own alternatives.

163 posted on 01/20/2014 1:50:36 PM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: hosepipe
Wonder what the non-materialists do with .........

Exactly. Don’t know what to tell them.
Let them sort it out . . . I guess.

164 posted on 01/20/2014 3:57:42 PM PST by YHAOS
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To: metmom
OK. Propose your own alternatives.

Why, thank you.

165 posted on 01/20/2014 5:30:50 PM PST by tacticalogic
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To: Elsie

Had to sidedstep that one?


166 posted on 01/20/2014 5:31:36 PM PST by tacticalogic
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To: FredZarguna

Very clever! Kehlog Albran indeed.


167 posted on 01/20/2014 5:43:54 PM PST by wildandcrazyrussian
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To: tacticalogic

yes


168 posted on 01/20/2014 5:49:20 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

Probably wise, I suspect.


169 posted on 01/20/2014 5:51:59 PM PST by tacticalogic
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To: tacticalogic

So, what are they?


170 posted on 01/20/2014 7:23:19 PM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: tacticalogic; Elsie
Had to sidedstep that one?

THAT'S funny, coming from the master of the sidestep.

171 posted on 01/20/2014 7:24:19 PM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: TigersEye

Well, there has to be some sensationalism, or science would not get any research grant money, LOL.

So much that is supposedly new has already been explored in the most minute detail, very comprehensively.


172 posted on 01/20/2014 8:36:27 PM PST by Candor7 (Obama fascism article:(http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/barack_obama_the_quintessentia_1.html))
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To: metmom

That’s personal.


173 posted on 01/21/2014 3:11:40 AM PST by tacticalogic
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To: metmom

I’m glad you’re feeling better.


174 posted on 01/21/2014 3:12:04 AM PST by tacticalogic
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To: tacticalogic

Yes


175 posted on 01/21/2014 6:06:43 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Candor7
Well, there has to be some sensationalism, or science would not get any research grant money, LOL.

True; but hasn't it ALWAYS been this way; for the most part?

176 posted on 01/21/2014 6:07:49 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

Was this a trap?


177 posted on 01/21/2014 6:28:13 AM PST by tacticalogic
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To: ETL
Hi!!!
My name is
Lothar Schafer


This is my
Distinguished Professor Emeritus
shirt that I like SO much!
 
 
(I used to be spokesboy for Smucker’s)

178 posted on 01/21/2014 6:29:04 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: ETL
On the Foundations of Metaphysics in the Mind-like Background of Physical Reality

As defined by: Lyndon LaRouche

 
http://larouchepac.com/node/22549

179 posted on 01/21/2014 6:37:22 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

The guy is very down to earth. He puts on no pretense or carries himself around like some aloft elitist. In any case, I doubt you have the intelligence or knowledge to even begin to understand what he’s saying, despite the fact that he typically breaks it down to the most intermediate level.


180 posted on 01/21/2014 6:38:50 AM PST by ETL (ALL (most?) of the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: Elsie; restornu
Maharishi Vedic Science (If only Joseph Smith had translated Reformed Hindi©.....)

Entrance to the Maharishi University of Management and Maharishi Vedic University campus in Vlodrop, Holland Maharishi Vedic Science (MVS) is based on the Maharishi's interpretation of the ancient Vedic texts based on his master, Brahmananda Saraswati's teachings. MVS aims to put forward traditional Vedic literature in the light of Western traditions of knowledge and understanding. According to Roy Ascott, MVS also explains the potential for every human being to experience the infinite nature of transcendental consciousness, also defined as Being or Self, while engaged in normal activities of daily life.

181 posted on 01/21/2014 6:46:34 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: ETL
I doubt you have the intelligence or knowledge to even begin to understand what he’s saying...

I might be a backwoods Hoosier; but at LEAST I ain't from Illinois!!
 
 
 
 
In March 1973, the Maharishi addressed the legislature of the state of Illinois.
That same year, the legislature passed a resolution in support of the use of Maharishi’s Science of Creative Intelligence in Illinois public schools.[26][126][127]          
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maharishi_Mahesh_Yogi
 

182 posted on 01/21/2014 6:47:54 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
"Nothing exists without a conscious observer. Existence of the universe would require a conscious entity to bring it into existence."

That's one interpretation of Quantum Mechanics. Not the correct one.

183 posted on 01/21/2014 6:52:02 AM PST by mlo
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To: Elsie
Lothar Schafer:

“Mind-stuff, in a part of reality behind the mechanistic foreground of the world of space-time energy sensibility, as Sherrington called it, is not restricted to Einstein locality.

I doubt you have the intelligence or knowledge to even begin to understand what he’s saying...

Uh...

You are correct again.

184 posted on 01/21/2014 6:55:29 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: ETL

I’m just SURE there is an intermediate level in here SOMEWHERE!


185 posted on 01/21/2014 6:57:52 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: mlo
"Nothing exists without a conscious observer.

The old tree falling in forest: repackaged.

186 posted on 01/21/2014 6:59:06 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
Lol. I just listened to that ridiculously stupid video you linked to. It hadn't a thing to do with what Lothar Schafer is saying. It was just a rambling incoherent mumbo jumbo by someone who obviously has no knowledge whatsoever of quantum mechanics, or I would say even basic science.

Anyway, it prompted me to look up whatever "thoughts" that lunatic LaRouche has on the subject and found this:

LAROUCHE/BASEMENT DIALOGUE
Mind Is the Principle of the Universe

Here's an excerpt...
(and, btw, if you can seriously compare this gibberish to what Lothar Schafer, an accomplished, award winning professor of quantum mechanics and physical chemistry, is saying, you're even more scientifically ignorant than LaRouche and his kooky supporters. The only thing in common are the words "mind" and "universe". Schafer gives people of faith reason to hope that a REAL connection exists between the physical universe and the human mind. Brain functions, including consciousness, lies within the realm of quantum mechanics)

Excerpt begins...

"On Oct. 12, after the release of "Our Extraterrestrial Imperative, Part 2," the LaRouche "Basement Team" of young scientists and political organizers was discussing the issue of the galaxy's spiral arms. Lyndon LaRouche joined the conversation.

LaRouche: The arms are not fixed. When you go to the galactic arms, you're not fixed. Because the whole process itself is undergoing an evolution in the process, so that the successive rate is not in an orderable series.

You have to start from the top; you can't take it piecemeal, and take one slice of it, and try to determine how the whole thing is functioning. So, you're looking at the galactic function.

I think we have to emphasize more emphatically, now that we have this approach, we have to start with the galaxy; the galactic functions are the things we have to deal with as a whole. Not a galactic arm, or this arm, or that arm—because they're changing! You've got a thing like the Crab Nebula that comes in there, which is in a finite time, in terms of our human existence on Earth. And a lot of similar things are happening to change everything in the galaxy; so therefore, you need a function for the galaxy as a whole, not a comparison of arms as such. The only function of looking at the comparison of arms is to find the differences. And we have to start from the galaxy, as we did, in this function: That's the genius of it! We start from the galaxy, we don't try to build up from inside the Solar System into the galaxy. We go the other way around. The best thing we have now is the galaxy. You take the galaxy as a whole, and this entire function, and start from there. ..."

http://www.larouchepub.com/lar/2010/3741lar_dial_basement_universe.html

187 posted on 01/21/2014 7:15:09 AM PST by ETL (ALL (most?) of the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: mlo
Finally! Someone who can explain what consciousness is!

Please enlighten me!

188 posted on 01/21/2014 7:20:45 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Who knew that one day professional wrestling would be less fake than professional journalism?)
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To: Elsie
Re: “Mind-stuff, in a part of reality behind the mechanistic foreground of the world of space-time energy sensibility, as Sherrington called it, is not restricted to Einstein locality."

That just means an instantaneous connection has been found (decades ago) to exist between quantum entities, no matter how far apart they are. It is an experimentally proven fact. Here's a link to an earlier post of mine that describes the phenomenon:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3112961/posts?page=143#143

189 posted on 01/21/2014 7:24:18 AM PST by ETL (ALL (most?) of the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: ETL
It was just a rambling incoherent mumbo jumbo...

BINGO!

We have a winner!

190 posted on 01/21/2014 7:27:21 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: ETL

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then...


191 posted on 01/21/2014 7:28:12 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: ETL
...no matter how far apart they are. It is an experimentally proven fact.

O...
K...


I doubt, however, that your link will be Dick and Jane enough for me to grasp.

192 posted on 01/21/2014 7:30:11 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

Me too.


193 posted on 01/21/2014 7:31:19 AM PST by ETL (ALL (most?) of the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: Elsie
Re: "...no matter how far apart they are. It is an experimentally proven fact."

O... K...

It is called the EPR Paradox. aka, Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen Paradox

And, sorry, I didn't mean to insult you (although you insulted me), but you can't just automatically discount stuff you really have no idea about.

194 posted on 01/21/2014 7:37:35 AM PST by ETL (ALL (most?) of the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: Elsie; TigersEye

Well, there has to be some sensationalism, or science would not get any research grant money, LOL.>>>>>>>>>>>
True; but hasn’t it ALWAYS been this way; for the most part?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

LOL. But if you look into the future, how will it be when science establishes a gateway to heaven ( or hell for that matter), will you pay the toll?

Yes, that has always been the way. And we pay the toll now
but not with money, but with good deeds that do not create suffering.

But paying cash would be a whole lot easier!


195 posted on 01/21/2014 7:38:21 AM PST by Candor7 (Obama fascism article:(http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/barack_obama_the_quintessentia_1.html))
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To: Elsie
The old tree falling in forest

This old thing comes up all the time as if it is so profound. A "sound" is basically a disturbance in the air that is picked up by a receiver of some sort. And if there aren't any receivers around to pick it up, no sound is made. In either case, the air disturbance still occurs.

196 posted on 01/21/2014 7:58:20 AM PST by ETL (ALL (most?) of the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: ETL
And, sorry, I didn't mean to insult you (although you insulted me), but you can't just automatically discount stuff you really have no idea about.

I may only have tougher skin.

Genetics (or something like that)

197 posted on 01/21/2014 12:45:21 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: ETL
And, sorry, I didn't mean to insult you (although you insulted me), but you can't just automatically discount stuff you really have no idea about.

I may have walked into the wrong TED symposium.

I was looking for the Robotic Underwater Weaving by Distributed Autonomous Networks one.

198 posted on 01/21/2014 12:47:55 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

Don’t you take anything seriously?


199 posted on 01/21/2014 12:51:06 PM PST by ETL (ALL (most?) of the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: Candor7
LOL. But if you look into the future, how will it be when science establishes a gateway to heaven ( or hell for that matter), will you pay the toll?

I'm trusting that Jesus has already paid it forward for me.

200 posted on 01/21/2014 12:51:30 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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