Fascination with Francis Stirs Protestant Hearts

The National Catholic Reporter ^ | 1/22/14 | Bill Tammeus

[marshmallow]

What has intrigued me most about Pope Francis is not the way in which Catholics -- well, most of them, anyway -- have embraced him but the way in which countless Protestants have moved into his fan club.

More is at play here than simple celebrity in our overwrought pop culture. At least, I hope so.

The Protestant fascination with him hasn't broken down the many theological, liturgical and structural barriers that still exist between Protestantism and Catholicism, but it has softened them a bit and it has caused some Protestants to want to figure out what makes Francis tick, what Jesuit theology is all about and what ground we Protestants might share in common with Catholics.

My own congregation is a good example of this phenomenon. Our pastor, Paul Rock, recently began a sermon series he's calling "Jesus, the Pope and a Protestant Walk Into a Bar." His sermons, which started Sunday, can be found here [1].

[ScottinVA]

You are always a Catholic because that mark of Baptism is always on your soul —— forever.

In Catholic teaching. I was baptized as an adult... willfully... into a relationship with Christ.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Actually, saswportas and trapped, the Pope is not a "Marxist5" and did not "bash" "capitalism," he just said that the trickle-down theory does not, "por si’ mismo" (Spanish)… "di per se" (Italian)… on other words, "by itself" ... promote economic inclusion for the poor. And that's true.

All Christians know that no "system" can exclude the need for charity and voluntary philanthropy by individuals, families, churches, church-related institutions, non-profits, and other organizations who try to support the elderly and disabled, equip people for the work force, etc. etc.

The important words here were "por si mismo" -- "by itself." Without charity and without the Gospel.

Non-market forces, such as laws to curb the activities of fraudsters and banksters, monetary manipulation, money-laundering, illegal trade in drugs, prostitution, human trafficking, insider trading, ponzi schemes, etc. --- plus the impact of non-market exchanges via charitable giving and philanthropy --- will always be needed, because "trickle down" doesn't produce opportunity and inclusion all . by . itself .

Be careful that you don't accept a Marxist spin on this, which is the one ultimately promoted by the Soros groups

[Mrs. Don-o]

By that particular definiton (Baptism making an indelible mark on the soul), all the Calvinists, Baptists, and Evangelical believers in the FR Religion Forum are Catholics, too.

Which is fine by me, my brethren and sistren.

[Trapped Behind Enemy Lines]

May I then suggest the Vatican hire a new interpretor?

Who were they using? The same guy who did the sign language at Mandela’s funeral?

[sasportas]

I posted this on another thread some time ago. Deserves repeating:

Put a Marxist in charge of the Roman church, the Catholic FReepers cover for him at every step, they do it all the time on the RF. Whatever political conservatism they might have goes out the window it seems, it apparently doesn’t mean diddly to a Catholic.

Taking a look at their history, it is understandable. Catholics were totalitarian tyrants from the day they sold their souls to the Roman emperor Constantine, continuing as Roman empire tyrants until the modern era put an end to it (thank God). Marxism is not such a bad thing to people of such a totalitarian bent. No wonder you have no problem with this Marxist Pope.

[Salvation]

As you well know, many of those Baptisms are accepted by the Catholic Church, and those entering RCIA become candidates rather than catechumens. (I think I have that correct; please correct me if I am in error.)

[Mrs. Don-o]

LOL.

I think it's worse than Mandela's one-man-band arm-waving interpreter. I think it's the "hive" --- the one Joe Sobran used to talk about. It's the the swarm of bien-pensant bees that waggle their little rear ends up or down or diagonally or in figure-8's, and within minutes the whole hive knows whether today's theme is "Republican War on Women" or "Science Says Global Warming Gonna Gitcha" or "We Wuv Pope Fwancis Cuz He's Pwogwessive Like Us."

And don't be calling it a "Conspiracy Theory," because they don't even have to "conspire". They just have to tune into the story line for 5 seconds, and the Narrative has been set: Pope Francis warm, Pope Benedict Cold. Pope Francis' black shows, Pope Benedict's Red Shoes. Pope Francis hates Capitalism, Pope Benedict is one of the Koch Brothers, or at least a Cold-as-Capitalist Cousin.

These are the people who simultaneously, around the world, decide which 15 words out of every 55,000 word papal document will be deemed newsworthy, and will be cropped and framed and put in the headline, the captions, and the lede.

Do you know what I mean?

[Trapped Behind Enemy Lines]

The Catholic leadership (defined as the bishops and the cardinals) at least here in the US comes across generally speaking as very conservative on social issues such as abortion and marriage, yet quite liberal on domestic policy issues most notably immigration, the death penalty, redistribution of wealth, big government, higher taxes, more spending——all nicely couched as “social justice”-—I think Pope Francis falls into this characterization as well from all that I’ve seen and read about him.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Here's a choice assessment of Pope Francis from the actual Catholic Left (and ex-Catholic but still-Left), Andrew O'Hehir and Matthew Fox --- courtesy of Salon:

http://www.salon.com/2013/03/16/is_pope_francis_a_fraud/

"As Fox and many other Catholic and ex-Catholic dissidents see it, Vatican II marked the moment when the church had the chance to reinvent itself as a flexible moral and spiritual force in a rapidly changing world. Indeed, it briefly seemed to do just that – and it’s important to understand that Bergoglio, like Joseph Ratzinger and Karol Wojtyla before him, was part of the right-wing counterrevolution within the church that aggressively rolled back those changes, crushed dissident thought and reasserted the absolute power of the pope and his hierarchy.

"Pope Francis is a longtime ally of Communion and Liberation, a fiercely conservative Catholic organization that insists on “total fidelity and communion” with the church leadership and is devoted, among other things, to battling European socialism and Latin American liberation theology. In Italian politics, CL has been closely tied to the party of Silvio Berlusconi, and its founder was an intimate friend of Cardinal Ratzinger before he became Benedict XVI."

I love to hear sweet, reassuring words like that.. :o)

[Trapped Behind Enemy Lines]

This would all be great if true. I still believe the Pope has issues with free market capitalism, limited government, individual liberty, and private property as do many in the Catholic clergy from top to bottom. Would like to be proven wrong about my current assessment.

[Mrs. Don-o]

The real trouble isn't emanating from Pope Francis, but from the USCCB.

I was just talking about this with a fellow Tea Party Republican lady in my parish. We both have been ignoring the ecclesiastical bafflegab coming out of the USCCB for decades, and take moderate comfort from the realization that probably 99% of us pewsitters ignore them as well.

The trouble with a clerical bureaucracy like USCCB is that the really good bishops' time and energy is entirely consumed by celebrating the Sacraments, preaching the Gospel, studying and teaching the Prophets of Israel and the Fathers of the Church, raising money for the Seminary, preparing lay catechists and evangelizers, knocking DREs' heads together, and so forth --- real pastoral works --- and they have no time for what's going on over there at that buzzing hive on Fourth Street NE.

Consequently, the bishops that ARE attracted to the hub of money and media, take over the various USCCB offices and commandeer the pulpit, styling themselves the Voice of U.S. Catholicism.

The guy at the top --- this season it's Abp Joseph Kurtz of Louisville, a good guy, by the way --- has little to do with it. They rotate too quickly to make a difference. The intramuscular rot is in the permanent apparat, many of them straight-out Obamunists, a petrified middle management of clericalized laity and laicized clerics that never changes, no matter who is elected Preezy Your Eminence.

The USCCB needs to be disbanded.

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