Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

‘FANTASY’ FRANCIS?
The American Spectator ^ | 1/22/14 | George Neumayr

Posted on 01/23/2014 4:54:43 PM PST by ebb tide

While some of the media’s claims about Francis are excessive, at least one is dismayingly real, one which Coppen never allows: that Francis is more liberal than his predecessors. Indeed, not a week passes without some new papal statement or action to puzzle conservatives and embolden liberals.

(Excerpt) Read more at spectator.org ...


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Islam; Theology
KEYWORDS: fantasyfrancis; francis; liberal; pope; romancatholic
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-81 next last

1 posted on 01/23/2014 4:54:43 PM PST by ebb tide
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: ebb tide

So far, claims of Francis’ liberalism are proven false and he shows himself to be a traditionalist, and an ardent one at that.


2 posted on 01/23/2014 4:59:12 PM PST by Olog-hai
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ebb tide

Attempts to pigeonhole Francis are doomed to fail because the voice he follows is not one heard by any of the secular. He simply follows God as he understands Him, and that’s enough.

I like this Pope. I also like the way he confounds people who think they know what he’s thinking.


3 posted on 01/23/2014 5:06:26 PM PST by Ronin (Dumb, dependent and Democrat is no way to go through life - Rep. L. Gohmert, Tex)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Ronin

The author of the article should perhaps not have fallen for the liberal snipping, never mind perpetuating it; he fell right into the liberals’ trap.


4 posted on 01/23/2014 5:18:53 PM PST by Olog-hai
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Ronin

To me, he sounds a lot like his role model, Francis of Assisi, who was definitely different and always thought “outside the box.” Some even said Francis of A. was crazy. But he got things done.


5 posted on 01/23/2014 5:21:34 PM PST by miserare (2014--The Year We Fight Back!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: ebb tide

He’s a JESUIT! What part of that do you NOT UNDERSTAND?

SHEESH, and I’m not EVEN catholic anymore.


6 posted on 01/23/2014 5:36:42 PM PST by ConradofMontferrat ( According to mudslimz, my handle is a HATE CRIME. And I HOPE they don't like it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: miserare

Yo! The only thing Francis of Assisi and this pope share, is the name “Francis.”

Francis of Assisi was NOT a Jesuit. And THAT is a significant difference.


7 posted on 01/23/2014 5:39:53 PM PST by ConradofMontferrat ( According to mudslimz, my handle is a HATE CRIME. And I HOPE they don't like it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Ronin

My friends at church and I are excited about Pope Francis. Not that we didn’t like Pope Benedict - we did, he was a good man and a good Pope - but we’re following all the rules and doing everything we should do and we’re tired. Beaten down and TIRED.

Pope Francis is talking about getting close to Jesus, taking a quantum leap above “doing everything you should do,” and really making Christianity vibrant and life-giving. I think it’s very necessary. How can you invite people to give their lives to Christ when the message is, “You can work your tail off for people and get nothing out of it and feel like a total failure, like me. Oh, what fun!”?

Er, you can’t. The martyrs didn’t die for “Put yourself last until finally you don’t care if you even eat, because you just want it to be over.” They died because Jesus Christ loved them, and they really, REALLY knew it.


8 posted on 01/23/2014 5:41:37 PM PST by Tax-chick (Well, that went badly.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Olog-hai

Hah! Tell that to the Franciscans of the Immaculate. Tell it to Cardinal Burke.


9 posted on 01/23/2014 5:46:44 PM PST by ebb tide
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: miserare

St. Francis converted muslims to Catholicism. Pope Francis does the opposite; he urges muslim children to follow the “faith” of their parents.


10 posted on 01/23/2014 5:48:44 PM PST by ebb tide
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Tax-chick
Pope Francis is talking about getting close to Jesus, taking a quantum leap above “doing everything you should do,” and really making Christianity vibrant and life-giving.

Pope Francis never talks about this to his pro-abortion, pro-homo marriage buddy, Rabbi Skorka.

11 posted on 01/23/2014 5:51:47 PM PST by ebb tide
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: ConradofMontferrat

Francis was about as far away from the Jesuits as possible in lifestyle and theology!

He founded his order (1209) more than 300 years before the Jesuits came into being (1534).


12 posted on 01/23/2014 5:54:41 PM PST by miserare (2014--The Year We Fight Back!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: ebb tide

You mean as the liberal media reports it?

How about Greg Reynolds? You remember what he was excommunicated for, right?

How does the new cardinal of Spain fit into this picture? You know, the fellow who publicly spoke against homosexuality?


13 posted on 01/23/2014 5:55:04 PM PST by Olog-hai
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Ronin
He simply follows God as he understands Him, and that’s enough.

Ain't that the truth! And that's a crying shame.

And I repeat it here. Everyone has his own idea of good and evil and must choose to follow the good and fight evil as he conceives them. That would be enough to make the world a better place", Pope Francis.

14 posted on 01/23/2014 6:01:59 PM PST by ebb tide
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: ebb tide

How do you know what Pope Francis talks about to anyone, other than what’s published? I read the sermons posted here, links from Vatican Radio.


15 posted on 01/23/2014 6:02:48 PM PST by Tax-chick (Well, that went badly.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Olog-hai

How about Monsignor Battista Ricca? You remember who promoted him to his current position, right?


16 posted on 01/23/2014 6:04:12 PM PST by ebb tide
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: ConradofMontferrat

If you are a baptized Catholic, you will always be a Catholic, because that indelible Baptismal mark on your soul does not go away.

Sit down with a priest and get your questions answered.


17 posted on 01/23/2014 6:08:08 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Tax-chick

I doubt you’ve ever read a full sermon of Pope Francis. Every one I’ve seen has been heavily redacted and editorialized. Do you have a source to his full sermons? If so, could you share it?

As far as the relationship between Francis and Skorka, read the book the two co-wrote together. “Two paths up the same mountain” comes to mind.


18 posted on 01/23/2014 6:08:34 PM PST by ebb tide
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: ebb tide

I’ve read what’s available from the daily Mass comments - it seems there is not a stenographer or publication of every word - as well as full texts of documents. I think I read the book with Skorka, too. I’ve read several books about/with Pope Francis since he was elected. They’re on the shelves in the county library.

Do you not think we and the Jewish people are in a relationship with the one God?


19 posted on 01/23/2014 6:13:17 PM PST by Tax-chick (Well, that went badly.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: ebb tide

How about him? Again, do liberal media insinuations become the be all and end all?

I seem to recall that Cardinal Burke is still president of the Apostolic Signatura.


20 posted on 01/23/2014 6:19:42 PM PST by Olog-hai
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Tax-chick

What do you mean by you think you read the book? Did you or didn’t you? Do you remember Francis urging Skorka to convert to Catholicism in the book? If you do, you’re mistaken.


21 posted on 01/23/2014 6:21:46 PM PST by ebb tide
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: ebb tide
What do you mean by you think you read the book?

I mean that I read a lot of books, and they don't all stick in my mind. It's not unknown for me to check out a book, start reading, and realize partway through that I've read it before.

I'm not a young woman.

22 posted on 01/23/2014 6:25:17 PM PST by Tax-chick (Well, that went badly.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Olog-hai

You are absolutely right.


23 posted on 01/23/2014 6:37:33 PM PST by NKP_Vet ("We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office" ~ Aesop)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Olog-hai

American Spectator is liberal media? You have not addressed one point in the posted article; you have just posted your own personal opinions about Fantasy Francis, regardless of the facts in the article.


24 posted on 01/23/2014 6:41:56 PM PST by ebb tide
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Olog-hai
I seem to recall that Cardinal Burke is still president of the Apostolic Signatura.

Unfortunately he was replaced by Wuerl in the Congregation of Bishops.

25 posted on 01/23/2014 6:49:15 PM PST by BlatherNaut
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Tax-chick
Do you not think we and the Jewish people are in a relationship with the one God?

I'm really disappointed that you would ask such a question. Do you think St. Stephen, the first martyr, and Caiphas were in the same relationship the one "God"?

26 posted on 01/23/2014 6:53:50 PM PST by ebb tide
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: ebb tide

When a Spectator contributor collects several snippets from the liberal media and thus behave in the same manner as the liberal media, they turn the vehicle that publishes their material into a de-facto liberal media outlet, do they not? That therefore is the problem with uninformed editorializing. (Of course, some people would never imagine that Fox News turned liberal, but they absolutely did.)

One typical example is the “who am I to judge” quote taken out of context all the time w.r.t. homosexuals. That was uttered in the context of homosexuals repenting of their behavior; it’s not hard to find online.


27 posted on 01/23/2014 6:57:53 PM PST by Olog-hai
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: ebb tide
Everyone has his own idea of good and evil and must choose to follow the good and fight evil as he conceives them. That would be enough to make the world a better place", Pope Francis.

Relativism run riot.

28 posted on 01/23/2014 6:58:37 PM PST by BlatherNaut
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: ebb tide

That’s informative, thanks.


29 posted on 01/23/2014 7:02:38 PM PST by Tax-chick (Well, that went badly.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: ebb tide

You equating Caiaphas with all of the Jewish religion and Jews that subscribe thereof?


30 posted on 01/23/2014 7:03:32 PM PST by Olog-hai
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Tax-chick
If you read the book. You would have read this:

“There is a phrase from the Second Vatican Council that is essential: it says that God showed Himself to all men and rescues, first of all, the Chosen People. Since God is faithful to his Promise, He did not reject them. The Church officially recognizes that the People of Israel continue to be the Chosen People. Nowhere does it say, ‘You lost the game, now it is our turn’. It is a recognition of the people of Israel. That, I think, is the most courageous things from Vatican II on the subject.”

I recommend you read the article below by John Vennari to see how wrong the above statement is:

Pope Francis and the Old Covenant

31 posted on 01/23/2014 7:03:47 PM PST by ebb tide
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Olog-hai

Caiphas, Foxman, Skorka: take your pick.


32 posted on 01/23/2014 7:05:33 PM PST by ebb tide
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: ebb tide

They represent all of Judaism to you?


33 posted on 01/23/2014 7:06:49 PM PST by Olog-hai
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: ebb tide

Whoever John Vennari is, bless his heart, I’m not going to have anything to do with anti-Semitism. One thing an observant person notices about all the Wrong People is that they have a gripe on about the Jews.


34 posted on 01/23/2014 7:06:54 PM PST by Tax-chick (Well, that went badly.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Tax-chick

“Wrong People” - cute term. Did you learn that from Obama? Resort to insults when you have no logical rebuttal.


35 posted on 01/23/2014 7:14:03 PM PST by ebb tide
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: ebb tide
There is no mention of any need for conversion to Christ and His Church …
Someone is looking for another Charlemagne, methinks?
36 posted on 01/23/2014 7:17:29 PM PST by Olog-hai
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Olog-hai; Tax-chick
No, I can name many more. And they all have one thing in common: they all reject Jesus Christ as the Son of God.

The same Jesus Christ who said, "[6] Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me." John; Chapter 14

What part of this Gospel do you all not understand?

37 posted on 01/23/2014 7:25:15 PM PST by ebb tide
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Tax-chick

Venarri is not an anti-Semite. I challenge you to prove your accusation.; otherwise please retract it.


38 posted on 01/23/2014 7:28:25 PM PST by ebb tide
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: ebb tide
There is also Matthew 22:14, For many are called, but few are chosen. There is a significance to the Second Coming, and prior to it, what is described in Matthew 10:34 has to come to pass.

The devil’s work has to be allowed to finish too, such as described in Revelation 12:9; if he did not get to deceive the whole world, then a great purpose God has set in motion cannot be fulfilled.

Furthermore, even rejection of Jesus as Messiah will be forgiven; there is only one sin that cannot be forgiven, and that is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which is described particularly in the case of those that were indeed converted but then vehemently turned away.
39 posted on 01/23/2014 7:31:56 PM PST by Olog-hai
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: Olog-hai
Furthermore, even rejection of Jesus as Messiah will be forgiven;

That's not true. Who taught you that nonsense?

40 posted on 01/23/2014 7:38:58 PM PST by ebb tide
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: Olog-hai

How do you think Lucifer ended up in Hell? Do you think he’ll be forgiven?


41 posted on 01/23/2014 7:40:57 PM PST by ebb tide
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: ebb tide

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.


42 posted on 01/23/2014 7:43:41 PM PST by Religion Moderator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Olog-hai

So far, claims of Francis’ liberalism are proven false and he shows himself to be a traditionalist, and an ardent one at that.

__________________________________

AMEN! :-)


43 posted on 01/23/2014 7:44:07 PM PST by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: ebb tide

Lucifer is not a human. He isn’t capable of repentance like humans are. Jesus did not die for him, remember.


44 posted on 01/23/2014 7:46:18 PM PST by Olog-hai
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: ebb tide

Caiphas, Foxman, Skorka: take your pick.

____________________________

Horribly broad brush, which is, of course, illogical.


45 posted on 01/23/2014 7:48:14 PM PST by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: SumProVita

Okay. Find the finest brush you can and show me a Jew that believes Jesus Christ is the Son of God.


46 posted on 01/23/2014 7:50:48 PM PST by ebb tide
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: Olog-hai
Jesus did not die for him, remember.

Nor was Jesus' Blood shed for "all". Remember?

47 posted on 01/23/2014 7:53:08 PM PST by ebb tide
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: ebb tide

Ever hear of a completed Jew? AND...even if the person is not a completed Jew and is a good Jew, then he believes in the same God as we do despite his lack of understanding.


48 posted on 01/23/2014 7:55:41 PM PST by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: SumProVita
Ever hear of a completed Jew?

Yes, St. Peter comes to mind.

49 posted on 01/23/2014 7:57:41 PM PST by ebb tide
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: SumProVita

Will he go the Heaven?


50 posted on 01/23/2014 7:58:45 PM PST by ebb tide
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-81 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson