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Pope says its “absurd to love Christ without the Church, to listen to Christ but not the Church"
AsiaNews ^ | 01/30/2014

Posted on 01/30/2014 2:50:42 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM

» 01/30/2014 11:57
VATICAN
Pope says its “absurd to love Christ without the Church, to listen to Christ but not the Church, to be with Christ at the margins of the Church"

Vatican City ( AsiaNews) - "It's absurd to love Christ without the Church, to listen to Christ but not the Church" , because the "first fruit of Baptism is to make you belong to the Church" and that "membership " has three pillars : humility , faithfulness and prayer for the Church.  This is what Pope Francis said today during his homily at Mass celebrated at Casa Santa Marta.

The Pope, Vatican Radio reports, was speaking about King David, as presented by the readings of the day: a man who speaks with the Lord as a son speaks with his father and even if his requests meet with a "no", he accepts this with joy. David had "a strong feeling of belonging to the people of God." And this makes us wonder about our sense of belonging to the Church, our feeling with the Church and in the Church.

"The Christian is not a baptized who receives baptism and then goes on his way. The first fruit of Baptism is to make you belong to the Church, the People of God. You cannot understand a Christian without the Church. This is why the great Paul VI said that it is an absurd dichotomy to love Christ without the Church, to listen to Christ but not the Church, to be with Christ at the margins of the Church. It's not possible. It is an absurd dichotomy. We receive the Gospel message in the Church and we carry out our holiness in the Church, our path in the Church. The other is a fantasy, or, as he said, an absurd dichotomy".

The "sensus ecclesiae" is "precisely to feel, think, want, within the Church". There are " three pillars of this belonging, this feeling with the Church . The first is humility" in the awareness of the great grace of being "inserted in a community":

"A person who is not humble, can not hear the Church, they can only hear what they like. We see this humility in David, ' Who am I , O Lord God , and what is my home?'. That realization that the story of salvation did not begin with me and will not end with me when I die. No, it's a whole history of salvation : I come, the Lord will take you, will help go onwards and then calls you and the story continues. The history of the Church began before us and will continue after us. Humility: we are a small part of a great people, that walks the path of the Lord".

The second pillar is fidelity, "that is linked to obedience". "Fidelity to the Church, fidelity to its teaching; fidelity to the Creed; fidelity to the doctrine, safeguarding this doctrine. Humility and fidelity. Even Paul VI reminded us that we receive the message of the Gospel as a gift and we need to transmit it as a gift, but not as a something of ours: it is a gift that we received. And be faithful in this transmission . Because we have received and we have to gift a Gospel that is not ours, that is Jesus', and we must not - he would say - become masters of the Gospel, masters of the doctrine we have received, to use it as we please".
 
The third pillar is a special service "to pray for the Church." "How is our prayer for the Church? Do we pray for the Church? Every day at Mass, but at home? When do we say our prayers?".  "Do we pray for the entire Church, all over the world?". May the Lord - the Pope concluded - help us to go down this path to deepen our belonging to the Church and our feeling with the Church".


TOPICS: Catholic; General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: catholic
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1 posted on 01/30/2014 2:50:42 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Brian Kopp DPM

“The Christian is not a baptized who receives baptism and then goes on his way.”

I think something was lost in translation.


2 posted on 01/30/2014 2:54:11 PM PST by ifinnegan
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To: Brian Kopp DPM

Funny, I don’t remember needing “man” to ensure my salvation.

Sure seems there’s a good chunk of that erroneous assumption going on here.


3 posted on 01/30/2014 2:59:02 PM PST by TheZMan (Buy more ammo.)
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To: ifinnegan

The translation is in the next text. We don’t go off into the atmosphere with our baptism.

We begin the work of our baptism in the mystical body of Christ, His Church.

That is so understood that many protestants are baptized everytime someone finds a different church.


4 posted on 01/30/2014 3:03:48 PM PST by RitaOK ( VIVA CHRISTO REY / Public education is the farm team for more Marxists coming.)
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To: Brian Kopp DPM

He doesn’t know a thing about Christ’s true church. For anyone to believe he actually speaks for Christ...well, THAT’s absurd. It’s also very sad.


5 posted on 01/30/2014 3:05:12 PM PST by .45 Long Colt
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To: TheZMan

You would have little use for Noah, for Joseph (Israel), probably the Apostles too. Instruments of salvation have been appointed/annointed, by God, throughout Bible history.

We could complain to Him, I suppose.


6 posted on 01/30/2014 3:10:11 PM PST by RitaOK ( VIVA CHRISTO REY / Public education is the farm team for more Marxists coming.)
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To: Brian Kopp DPM

The RCC has totally corrupted what the Greek word ekklesia really means. The concept they promote didn’t even exist in the apostles lives.


7 posted on 01/30/2014 3:10:12 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: CynicalBear

Frankly, I could do with a little less ekklesia, if it means watering down the Catholic faith and Catholic faith practices, in the West, any more than they already have been. Nearly unrecognizable.


8 posted on 01/30/2014 3:14:58 PM PST by RitaOK ( VIVA CHRISTO REY / Public education is the farm team for more Marxists coming.)
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To: CynicalBear
"The RCC has totally corrupted what the Greek word ekklesia really means. The concept they promote didn’t even exist in the apostles lives."

Absolutely dead on the mark. Great post. Tragic, but great post.

9 posted on 01/30/2014 3:16:17 PM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: Brian Kopp DPM

Ruh roh. Il Papa might lose a few of his Protestant and atheist groupies over this.


10 posted on 01/30/2014 3:18:16 PM PST by Jeff Chandler (Obamacare: You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.)
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To: Brian Kopp DPM

IB4TPWM


11 posted on 01/30/2014 3:18:32 PM PST by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: CynicalBear

I believe we both need to learn to spell, “ecclesiae”, before we assert the Greek meaning of the word. :)


12 posted on 01/30/2014 3:19:08 PM PST by RitaOK ( VIVA CHRISTO REY / Public education is the farm team for more Marxists coming.)
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To: Jeff Chandler

:)


13 posted on 01/30/2014 3:20:02 PM PST by RitaOK ( VIVA CHRISTO REY / Public education is the farm team for more Marxists coming.)
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To: CynicalBear; RitaOK

Yes.. they had no idea of ‘Church.’

If it were today, Paul would be addressing his letters to the “Church on CynicalBear’s Neighborhood.”

And it would be delivered of course.


14 posted on 01/30/2014 3:25:27 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: Brian Kopp DPM

In my opinion, the [c]hurch hasn’t listened to God very much since Abraham’s covenant. Thank God he has given us the Word, the Word mad flesh and the Holy Spirit. Just add brokeness.


15 posted on 01/30/2014 3:25:52 PM PST by WorkingClassFilth
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To: Brian Kopp DPM

AMEN. God Bless Pope Francis!


16 posted on 01/30/2014 3:32:28 PM PST by Biggirl (Ā“Go, do not be afraid, and serveĀ”-Pope Francis)
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To: RitaOK
You would have little use for Noah

Catholics have no need of Noah, just a 'nice story with a good message'. Like a lot of things in the Bible, not required for Catholics.

17 posted on 01/30/2014 3:33:01 PM PST by xone
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To: RitaOK
You would have little use for Noah

Catholics have no need of Noah, just a 'nice story with a good message'. Like a lot of things in the Bible, not required for Catholics.

18 posted on 01/30/2014 3:33:32 PM PST by xone
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To: .45 Long Colt

“He doesn’t know a thing about Christ’s true church”

No, he’s only the leader of the world’s largest Christian denomination, which happens to be 2,000 years old. But what would he know. “Who am I to judge”. LOL.


19 posted on 01/30/2014 3:33:53 PM PST by NKP_Vet ("I got a good Christian raisin', and 8th grade education, aint no need ya'll treatin' me this way")
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To: RitaOK

Btw, Jacob was Israel, not Joseph. Striiiiike two.


20 posted on 01/30/2014 3:34:46 PM PST by xone
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To: xone; RitaOK; TheZMan

Somehow, I think you missed the point of the reply..


21 posted on 01/30/2014 3:36:06 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: NKP_Vet

He is the leader of the RCC, but Christ’s church isn’t an institution. It’s the elect, the body of all believers.


22 posted on 01/30/2014 3:38:27 PM PST by .45 Long Colt
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To: .45 Long Colt
He doesn’t know a thing about Christ’s true church. For anyone to believe he actually speaks for Christ...well, THAT’s absurd. It’s also very sad.

Pope says its “absurd to love Christ without the Church, to listen to Christ but not the Church, to be with Christ at the margins of the Church"

I wouldn't expect the POPE to say anything less. It's HIS church after all. He's not going to bite the hand that feeds him.

23 posted on 01/30/2014 3:39:19 PM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: D-fendr

No, I got the point, I also got the irony of a Catholic referencing Noah considering the Catholic stance, and the misapplication of Joseph as Israel when lecturing about scripture. Points well taken.


24 posted on 01/30/2014 3:40:11 PM PST by xone
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To: xone; RitaOK; TheZMan

If you got the point, your disagreement is with Zman, and you’re agreeing with Rita.


25 posted on 01/30/2014 3:42:01 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: RitaOK

>> I believe we both need to learn to spell, “ecclesiae”, before we assert the Greek meaning of the word. :)<<

ekklésia: an assembly, a (religious) congregation

http://biblehub.com/greek/1577.htm

Seems we are in good company with ekklesia.


26 posted on 01/30/2014 3:43:13 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: RitaOK

Here we go with the bashing.


27 posted on 01/30/2014 3:45:21 PM PST by Biggirl (Ā“Go, do not be afraid, and serveĀ”-Pope Francis)
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To: D-fendr
>>If it were today, Paul would be addressing his letters to the “Church on CynicalBear’s Neighborhood.”<<

As a matter of fact yes he would. Just as he did when he wrote to the local “assemblies” in each local areas.

28 posted on 01/30/2014 3:47:12 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: Brian Kopp DPM
VATICAN Pope says its “absurd to love Christ without the Church, to listen to Christ but not the Church, to be with Christ at the margins of the Church"

Hey Mr. Pope...I do not need the Catholic "Church" to believe in my Savior. I don't need you either.

FMCDH(BITS)

29 posted on 01/30/2014 3:49:00 PM PST by nothingnew (I fear for my Republic due to marxist influence in our government. Open eyes/see)
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To: .45 Long Colt
>>It’s the elect, the body of all believers.<<

If only people would begin to understand that. A lot of eyes would be opened and the RCC would be much less the size it is now.

30 posted on 01/30/2014 3:49:37 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: D-fendr; TheZMan; RitaOK

I agree with ZMan, the people God used could have been anyone, Christ saves alone. Rita just teed up the ball.


31 posted on 01/30/2014 3:52:18 PM PST by xone
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To: All

If ALL Christians from all the churches would take to heart John 17, it would open the eyes of all and help bring that much needed UNITY.


32 posted on 01/30/2014 3:53:21 PM PST by Biggirl (Ā“Go, do not be afraid, and serveĀ”-Pope Francis)
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To: Jeff Chandler
Ruh roh. Il Papa might lose a few of his Protestant and atheist groupies over this.

Yeah, proclaiming the Truth does have a way of separating the wheat from the chaff, eh?

33 posted on 01/30/2014 3:54:14 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Brian Kopp DPM

Indeed it does.


34 posted on 01/30/2014 3:56:42 PM PST by Jeff Chandler (Obamacare: You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.)
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To: metmom

True enough. I suppose he has to keep up appearances. I just wonder if he believes anything he says.


35 posted on 01/30/2014 4:04:21 PM PST by .45 Long Colt
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To: CynicalBear
As a matter of fact yes he would. Just as he did when he wrote to the local “assemblies” in each local areas.

It is good that you do see there is a visible Church. Some on here don't.

Now how would Paul know your assembly to address? How many "assemblies" would he be writing to in your neighborhood? In your zip code? In your city? In your state?

36 posted on 01/30/2014 4:04:47 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: Brian Kopp DPM

B.S.! Salvation comes through a personal relationship and not a group relationship with Christ. And I think that going into a divided off box to confess and be absolved of my sins to a priest is absurd.


37 posted on 01/30/2014 4:04:47 PM PST by diverteach (If I find liberals in heaven after my death.....I WILL BE PISSED!!!)
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To: xone

Then you didn’t get the point.


38 posted on 01/30/2014 4:05:28 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: D-fendr

I don’t identify my location. It really doesn’t matter does it. “Wherever two or three are gathered in my name” becomes and assembly where Christ is present. All believers are after all “called out” in His name.


39 posted on 01/30/2014 4:11:52 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: Biggirl
It is a beautiful prayer. In it Jesus relays how He gave His followers the words His Father gave Him. He prays that they might be sanctified in the Truth. He confirms His Word is Truth.

22 The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, 23 I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me.

The only Unity for Christians is in His Word/Truth. The only earthly location for that Word is in Scripture.

40 posted on 01/30/2014 4:13:31 PM PST by xone
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To: D-fendr

Whatever you say.


41 posted on 01/30/2014 4:14:26 PM PST by xone
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To: RitaOK
That is so understood that many protestants are baptized everytime someone finds a different church.

First time I have ever heard that one. I was baptized ONCE. AFTER I accepted Christ as my Savior. I accept Him and Him alone. I don't ask any man to forgive me of my sins each day, I ask Jesus Christ. Man cannot do a thing for me, only Jesus Christ.

42 posted on 01/30/2014 4:17:22 PM PST by RetiredArmy (All that call upon His name shall be saved! HE is the ONLY way to heaven. Only HIM!!)
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To: CynicalBear
I don’t identify my location. It really doesn’t matter does it. “Wherever two or three..

So Paul would address his epistle: "To Wherever..."

You have an invisible epistle to an invisible church at an invisible address.

As a matter of fact yes he would. Just as he did when he wrote to the local “assemblies” in each local areas.

It seems your previous statement is no longer operative.

43 posted on 01/30/2014 4:17:45 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: Biggirl

All true believers having been indwelt by the Holy Spirit understand John 17. It’s exactly what we have been trying to impress on those who follow the errors of the Catholic Church. It’s time for those believers to leave that apostate organization lest they partake in her plagues.


44 posted on 01/30/2014 4:21:58 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: D-fendr
>> So Paul would address his epistle: "To Wherever..."<<

How preposterous. Do you honestly think Jesus doesn’t know where each of His followers are and when they meet in His name?

>> It seems your previous statement is no longer operative.<<

I suppose to a carnal mind that would be true.

45 posted on 01/30/2014 4:27:00 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: CynicalBear

Rather, it is time for those who have been as I call, my seperated brothers and sisters in the Lord to come home to the orginal megachurch.


46 posted on 01/30/2014 4:27:59 PM PST by Biggirl (Ā“Go, do not be afraid, and serveĀ”-Pope Francis)
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To: CynicalBear

Let’s try that again - with a response that addresses the question:

>> So Paul would address his epistle: “To Wherever...”<<?


47 posted on 01/30/2014 4:32:27 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: Biggirl
come home to the orginal megachurch.

The one that regards His Word, His Truth as an addendum? You called the scripture passage then ignore that the unity in Christ comes through His Word which Catholic here have referred to as 'a source of information'. Bitter clingers those Catholics, to the word of man and their traditions. Notice Jesus didn't say "sanctify them in the Roman Catholic Church" but in the Truth. Although, since John wrote the book, and I hear around here that he is a Catholic, I wonder how he missed that.

48 posted on 01/30/2014 4:35:05 PM PST by xone
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To: Biggirl
>> Rather, it is time for those who have been as I call, my seperated brothers and sisters in the Lord to come home to the orginal megachurch.<<

With it’s self admitted paganism? I think not.

Deuteronomy 12:30 Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. 31 Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God

Notice how God says not to use the way of the pagans to serve Him? Even the RCC itself says they have incorporated pagan practices into their “religion”.

“We need not shrink from admitting that candles, like incense and lustral water, were commonly employed in pagan worship and the rites paid to the dead. But the Church from a very early period took them into her service, just as she adopted many other things indifferent in themselves, which seemed proper to enhance the splendor of religious ceremonial. We must not forget that most of these adjuncts to worship, like music, lights, perfumes, ablutions, floral decorations, canopies, fans, screens, bells, vestments etc. were not identified with any idolatrous cult in particular; but they were common to almost all cults” (Catholic Encyclopedia, III, 246.)

“When we give or receive Christmas gifts; or hang green wreaths in our homes and churches, how many of us know that we are probably observing pagan customs...the god, Woden, in Norse Mythology, descends upon the earth yearly between December 25th and January 6th to bless mankind...But pagan though they be, they are beautiful customs. They help inspire us with the spirit of 'good will to men', even as the sublime service of our Church reminds us of the ‘peace on earth’ which the babe of Bethlehem came to bestow” (Externals of the Catholic Church, 140).

I would never, ever be associated with a self admitted pagan practicing organization that goes against God’s commands.

49 posted on 01/30/2014 4:35:45 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: D-fendr

They forget that Paul wrote mostly to church communities.


50 posted on 01/30/2014 4:37:06 PM PST by Biggirl (Ā“Go, do not be afraid, and serveĀ”-Pope Francis)
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