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She wanted to convert. She listened to Cardinal Ratzinger and died a Lutheran.
rorate caeli ^ | 2/03/2014 | New Catholic

Posted on 02/03/2014 11:37:02 AM PST by ebb tide

She wanted to convert. She listened to Cardinal Ratzinger and died a Lutheran.

Sigrid Spath was the most famous German translator in Rome. She worked in the Jesuit General House, and then in the Vatican, since the days of Paul VI and translated around 70,000 pages of documents from Italian, French, English, Spanish or Polish into German, as well as several texts by Joseph Ratzinger, as Cardinal or Pope, as he also wrote original texts in Italian. The granddaughter of a Lutheran pastor, Spath was born in Villach, Carinthia (Austria), on August 1, 1939 (that is, just one month before the war), and she died this Sunday, February 2, 2014, in Rome.

May she rest in peace.

Now, the information above comes from the Vatican Radio article on Sigrid Spath, from which we have chosen this remarkable excerpt:

Sigrid Spath translated in these cases [documents written by the Pope in Italian] the German Pope into German. One of her favorite books was Ratzinger's "Introduction to Christianity", dozens of copies of which she gave to Protestant students visiting Rome.

As Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger charged her personally with the German version of particularly sensitive documents, such as his response to the objections of Protestant theologians to the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification of 1999. It was also Cardinal Ratzinger who, according to her own testimony, advised Sigrid Spath to remain a Protestant, and not to convert to the Catholic Church, as she had considered in a moment of crisis. She could do more for both churches if she remained a Protestant, said the Cardinal. The Carinthian remained in the Protestant Christuskirche in Rome [the Evangelical-Lutheran community of Rome] throughout her life.

Note: Life-changing decisions should be avoided, if possible, in moments of distress and personal crisis, when reflection and meditation are impossible. But the justification presented by the Cardinal for why she should permanently remain a Protestant obviously influenced her in a permanent way, so that she felt compelled to declare it to others openly.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Mainline Protestant
KEYWORDS: eens; ratzinger
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1 posted on 02/03/2014 11:37:03 AM PST by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide

What difference would it have made?


2 posted on 02/03/2014 11:44:11 AM PST by Linda Frances (Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness.)
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To: ebb tide
As Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger charged her personally with the German version of particularly sensitive documents, such as his response to the objections of Protestant theologians to the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification of 1999. It was also Cardinal Ratzinger who, according to her own testimony, advised Sigrid Spath to remain a Protestant, and not to convert to the Catholic Church, as she had considered in a moment of crisis. She could do more for both churches if she remained a Protestant, said the Cardinal. The Carinthian remained in the Protestant Christuskirche in Rome [the Evangelical-Lutheran community of Rome] throughout her life.

PFL

3 posted on 02/03/2014 11:45:08 AM PST by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: ebb tide
Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification of 1999

Enough to make one a conservative Lutheran.

4 posted on 02/03/2014 12:05:29 PM PST by xone
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To: Linda Frances

No difference. Follow the example of Jesus in the new testament. Believe his words. You will be saved by forgiveness, grace and faith. Simple enough for a child to understand.


5 posted on 02/03/2014 12:47:04 PM PST by doc maverick
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To: doc maverick
Follow the example of Jesus in the new testament. Believe his words. You will be saved by forgiveness, grace and faith. Simple enough for a child to understand.

If I have to follow His example, how does forgiveness, grace and faith come into the picture? Sounds more like I"ll be saved by works.

6 posted on 02/03/2014 1:04:04 PM PST by Gamecock (Believing the Doctrines of Grace and not sharing is like being Batman and working in a Gas Station)
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To: ebb tide

More proof that it’s not just Francis that thinks no one needs to convert to Catholicism. Remember proselytizing is solemn nonsense. This is ALL the direct result of the false ecumenism put forth at the Vatican II council. This is all the result of the New Religion that is the post Vatican II church.

Uggh. I get sicker and sicker and angrier and angrier the more the scales drop from my eyes.

When will we get a pope that will return the Church to its 1960 year old ways?


7 posted on 02/03/2014 1:24:17 PM PST by piusv
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To: All

We are all united by our common baptism.


8 posted on 02/03/2014 2:02:42 PM PST by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: All

Remember the decision to convert is not just only a calling but a lifetime commitment that must not be done during the middle of a personal crisis, when decisions could be made in haste.


9 posted on 02/03/2014 2:05:26 PM PST by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: Biggirl

Do you think Protestants need to convert?


10 posted on 02/03/2014 2:05:48 PM PST by piusv
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To: Biggirl
Ah but there's this:

She could do more for both churches if she remained a Protestant, said the Cardinal.

11 posted on 02/03/2014 2:07:44 PM PST by piusv
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To: piusv

“Note: Life-changing decisions should be avoided, if possible, in moments of distress and personal crisis, when reflection and meditation are impossible. But the justification presented by the Cardinal for why she should permanently remain a Protestant obviously influenced her in a permanent way, so that she felt compelled to declare it to others openly.”

Major decisions during personal difficulties should not be made. Wise advice.


12 posted on 02/03/2014 2:08:34 PM PST by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: piusv

She was still a Christian though. Common baptism.


13 posted on 02/03/2014 2:09:51 PM PST by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: Biggirl

She was a heretic.


14 posted on 02/03/2014 2:10:32 PM PST by piusv
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To: piusv

No.


15 posted on 02/03/2014 2:11:59 PM PST by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: piusv

——Do you think Protestants need to convert?——

Don’t be silly, many Catholics think Protestants are fallen Catholics...lost little sheep...beguilded by Sola Scripture....

Only half tongue in cheek...


16 posted on 02/03/2014 2:12:49 PM PST by Popman ("Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God" - Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Biggirl

But she was to do so much more for both churches if she didn’t convert has NOTHING to do with any personal crisis. Did he even suggest giving conversion some thought even in the future? It sounds to me that there was no prodding here what-so-ever. Typical VII.


17 posted on 02/03/2014 2:13:10 PM PST by piusv
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To: Biggirl
No.

This explains all.

18 posted on 02/03/2014 2:14:36 PM PST by piusv
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To: piusv

What it comes down to is that, once the crisis passes, she can begin the effort of what is called discernament when it is not clouded.


19 posted on 02/03/2014 2:14:43 PM PST by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: piusv

Did not Jesus command not to “judge” ?


20 posted on 02/03/2014 2:16:46 PM PST by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: Popman

As you can see from Biggirl’s response, most modern day Catholics don’t think other Christians need to convert. Like VII, they believe that Christ’s Church only subsists in the Catholic Church. Other Christians are a part of Christ’s Church, just imperfectly so. They are partially in communion. They just don’t have the “fullness of the Truth”. Christ’s Church lacks unity.


21 posted on 02/03/2014 2:18:47 PM PST by piusv
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To: Biggirl

The “don’t judge” stuff always come out when the truth is spoken. The Church has called non-Catholics heretics, infidels, and the like for hundreds of years. All of a sudden this is no longer true?


22 posted on 02/03/2014 2:20:25 PM PST by piusv
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To: Biggirl; piusv

Do you believe in EENS? It’s a dogma of the Catholic faith.


23 posted on 02/03/2014 2:25:34 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: Biggirl; piusv

No, Jesus Christ said no such thing. He said, “Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.” John 20:23

I think you’ve got Jesus Christ confused with the current Bishop of Rome. Big, big, big difference!


24 posted on 02/03/2014 2:31:38 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: piusv
The Church has called non-Catholics heretics, infidels, and the like for hundreds of years. All of a sudden this is no longer true?

Apparently so, as it is the opinion of the last two Popes. Makes a Catholic wonder what other dogma is invalid.

On the other hand, maybe the dogma 'extra Ecclesiam nulla salus' is still valid but he didn't like her. Which would be worse?

25 posted on 02/03/2014 2:32:20 PM PST by xone
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To: xone

But he didn’t like her? I’m not following.


26 posted on 02/03/2014 2:44:59 PM PST by piusv
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To: piusv
If there is no salvation outside the church....and he didn't like her?

Nasty, but otherwise that dogma doesn't seem operative. Be a little different if he hadn't been a prince of the church.

27 posted on 02/03/2014 2:52:49 PM PST by xone
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To: Linda Frances
In answer to your question:

In response to this question the document recognises that “the wound is still more profound in those ecclesial communities which have not preserved the apostolic succession or the valid celebration of the eucharist”.[13] For this reason they are “not Churches in the proper sense of the word”[14] but rather, as is attested in conciliar and postconciliar teaching, they are “ecclesial Communities”.[15]

Despite the fact that this teaching has created no little distress in the communities concerned and even amongst some Catholics, it is nevertheless difficult to see how the title of “Church” could possibly be attributed to them, given that they do not accept the theological notion of the Church in the Catholic sense and that they lack elements considered essential to the Catholic Church.

COMMENTARY ON THE DOCUMENT RESPONSES TO SOME QUESTIONS REGARDING CERTAIN ASPECTS OF THE DOCTRINE ON THE CHURCH

28 posted on 02/03/2014 2:57:37 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide

What is that?


29 posted on 02/03/2014 2:58:36 PM PST by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: piusv

I am correct though.


30 posted on 02/03/2014 3:00:28 PM PST by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: Biggirl

Correct about what?


31 posted on 02/03/2014 3:02:34 PM PST by piusv
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To: ebb tide

If this is true and there’s not more to the story, it’s very sad. What’s to be said about the deathbed conversion then? Should it not happen because it is during a moment of crisis?


32 posted on 02/03/2014 3:02:45 PM PST by mlizzy ("If people spent an hour a week in Eucharistic Adoration, abortion would be ended." --Mother Teresa)
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To: Biggirl

Why am I not surprised you even had to ask that question?


33 posted on 02/03/2014 3:05:11 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: mlizzy

If she converted at her deathbed, the baptism would be accepted as long as it was done in the name of the Most Blessed Holy Trinity, she would be receieved then into the Church.


34 posted on 02/03/2014 3:06:52 PM PST by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: Biggirl

Wow. You totally missed mlizzy’s point.


35 posted on 02/03/2014 3:10:56 PM PST by piusv
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To: piusv

That is how the Catholic Church receieves new members who were baptized in other churches, the baptism is accepted as legit and as long as they read a formal statement. This is what is done now in RCIA.


36 posted on 02/03/2014 3:18:04 PM PST by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: ebb tide

And what is wrong with asking a question?


37 posted on 02/03/2014 3:18:43 PM PST by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: Biggirl

Nothing. It’s just a question I would not expect from a practicing Catholic.


38 posted on 02/03/2014 3:21:06 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: Biggirl; mlizzy

Mlizzy’s point wasn’t whether the baptism was valid. The point was that if conversion is not a good idea during times of crisis, then what about deathbed conversions? That’s probably the biggest crisis anyone could ever have.


39 posted on 02/03/2014 3:24:17 PM PST by piusv
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To: ebb tide
In saying this, however, it must be remembered that these said ecclesial Communities, by virtue of the diverse elements of sanctification and truth really present in them, undoubtedly possess as such an ecclesial character and consequently a salvific significance.

Oops.

40 posted on 02/03/2014 3:34:37 PM PST by xone
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To: xone
Lord have mercy.

I love how that document which was meant to clarify the VII documents only proved just how VII was a hermeneutic of rupture rather than one of continuity.

41 posted on 02/03/2014 3:42:27 PM PST by piusv
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To: ebb tide

Rather it is better to do the English translation that would really help.


42 posted on 02/03/2014 3:42:34 PM PST by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: xone

“It firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the catholic church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the catholic church before the end of their lives; that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is of such importance that only for those who abide in it do the church’s sacraments contribute to salvation and do fasts, almsgiving and other works of piety and practices of the Christian militia produce eternal rewards; and that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed his blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and the unity of the catholic church.”

http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Councils/ecum17.htm

Oops.


43 posted on 02/03/2014 3:47:47 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: Biggirl

Ok, my apologies. Now do you have an answer to the question, itself?

Do you believe in salvation outside the Catholic Church? Keep in mind this is a dogma of the Church.


44 posted on 02/03/2014 3:52:11 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: piusv

“The Church has called non-Catholics heretics, infidels, and the like for hundreds of years. All of a sudden this is no longer true?”

It really burns me up when Catholics call me a heretic.


45 posted on 02/03/2014 3:59:13 PM PST by RFEngineer
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To: piusv
This is ALL the direct result of the false ecumenism put forth at the Vatican II council.

If they continue along this path, the hierarchy will eventually ecumenicize themselves out of a job. :) That is the logical consequence of all their aimless "dialoguing". Ironically, they have turned "ecumenism" (originally a Protestant concept) into an assortment of job opportunities within the Church. For instance, Cardinal O'Malley employs ecumenism specialists in his " Office for Ecumenical and Interreligious Affairs".

When will we get a pope that will return the Church to its 1960 year old ways?

Perhaps when those who have a personal stake either as instigators or as followers of the destructive "novelties" and are still determinedly working to suppress Catholic Tradition pass away. I have heard that 25% of ordinations in France are now of traditional priests. And a grass roots revival of Tradition is forming among the laity, despite the efforts of the ecumaniacal hierarchy to suppress it.

Ecumaniacs doing their thing:

some_text

46 posted on 02/03/2014 4:00:20 PM PST by BlatherNaut
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To: ebb tide
Overturned by Vat II. again oops. Or as the Romans say, "Unity schmuunity."
47 posted on 02/03/2014 4:07:47 PM PST by xone
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To: xone

Vatican II overturned nothing. It was purely a pastoral council, the first of its kind. It should be ignored by Catholics and Protestants’s alike for it declared no new doctrine but, instead, cast doubt on 2000 years of doctrine.


48 posted on 02/03/2014 4:26:00 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: RFEngineer

LMAO.


49 posted on 02/03/2014 4:32:32 PM PST by piusv
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To: BlatherNaut

Ecumaniacs. I love it.


50 posted on 02/03/2014 4:38:41 PM PST by piusv
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