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For Growing Numbers of Baptists, Pope Francis is Drawing Admiration
Associated Baptist Press ^ | 2/7/14 | Jeff Brumley

Posted on 02/14/2014 7:17:17 AM PST by marshmallow

Atlanta Pastor Barrett Owen said months of continuous news about Pope Francis I and his concern for “the least of these” inspired him to go public with his growing admiration for the Roman Catholic leader. He’s not the only evangelical who values the new pontiff’s approach.

A Baptist preacher in Georgia said months of exposure to television and online news reports about Pope Francis I just finally got to him.

And that’s a good thing, said Barrett Owen, pastor of National Heights Baptist Church in Atlanta.

“It seemed like he had a critical mass of news stories that just resonated with me,” Owen said. “He consistently overwhelms me how determined he is to give such a positive face to Christianity.”

Contributing to that media mass were articles and blogs published by agencies like Religion News Service and Christianity Today, often extolling the humility and least-of-these approach to ministry of the world’s most visible Christian leader.

So what did Owen do? He added to the deluge of evangelicals-who-love-the-pope commentary by penning a Feb. 7 blog on the topic for ABPnews/Herald.

Titled “#popecrush” after the trending Twitter hashtag for social media users infatuated with Pope Francis, the blog starts right off with a list of 10 things Barrett said he admires about the pontiff.

They include Francis choosing to ride in compact cars instead of limos, sneaking out of the Vatican to secretly visit homeless people and refusing to condemn homosexuals.

“The 10 items I listed in just seconds,” he said in a telephone interview. “They just came off the top of my head.”

(Excerpt) Read more at abpnews.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Ecumenism; Evangelical Christian
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1 posted on 02/14/2014 7:17:17 AM PST by marshmallow
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To: marshmallow

As long as the Pope follows the Word he’s OK with this ex-Catholic Baptist......but I haven’t heard of anyone having leg tingles over him.


2 posted on 02/14/2014 7:22:34 AM PST by Some Fat Guy in L.A. (Still bitterly clinging to rational thought despite it's unfashionability)
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To: marshmallow

Something tells me these are the fake, liberal, black, social justice “baptists.”


3 posted on 02/14/2014 7:26:14 AM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: Some Fat Guy in L.A.

May I ask - what compelled you leave the Catholic Church and become a Baptist?


4 posted on 02/14/2014 7:26:57 AM PST by MichaelCorleone (Jesus Christ is not a religion. He's the Truth.)
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To: Some Fat Guy in L.A.

“He consistently overwhelms me how determined he is to give such a positive face to Christianity.”

As if this is a problem to begin with. Hmmm.


5 posted on 02/14/2014 7:28:28 AM PST by Augustinian monk
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To: marshmallow

In other news, Jesse Jackson now admires Ronald Reagan, and Captain Hook is BFF with Peter Pan.

I’ve got no problem with Catholics, but some of the pro-Catholic propaganda on this board is a bit rich. Less is more, fellas.


6 posted on 02/14/2014 7:36:52 AM PST by stinkerpot65 (Global warming is a Marxist lie.)
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To: fwdude

From their website:

Bible Freedom is the belief in the centrality of scripture. We teach that every human being has the capacity and the freedom to read and interpret the Bible as she or he sees fit.

Yikes


7 posted on 02/14/2014 7:37:09 AM PST by Augustinian monk
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To: marshmallow

This saddens me, but I’m not shocked. Our Baptist forefathers wouldn’t recognize this generation of Baptists. Thankfully there are some traditional Baptists left, but they are the exception.

Here is what Charles Spurgeon, the great 19th century Baptist, had to say on the matter of the pope of Rome:

“It is the bounden duty of every Christian to pray against Antichrist, and as to what Antichrist is no sane man ought to raise a question. If it be not the popery in the Church of Rome there is nothing in the world that can be called by that name. If there were to be issued a hue and cry for Antichrist, we should certainly take up this church on suspicion, and it would certainly not be let loose again, for it so exactly answers the description.”

“Popery is contrary to Christ’s Gospel, and is the Antichrist, and we ought to pray against it. It should be the daily prayer of every believer that Antichrist might be hurled like a millstone into the flood and for Christ, because it wounds Christ, because it robs Christ of His glory, because it puts sacramental efficacy in the place of His atonement, and lifts a piece of bread into the place of the Saviour, and a few drops of water into the place of the Holy Ghost, and puts a mere fallible man like ourselves up as the vicar of Christ on earth; if we pray against it, because it is against Him, we shall love the persons though we hate their errors: we shall love their souls though we loath and detest their dogmas, and so the breath of our prayers will be sweetened, because we turn our faces towards Christ when we pray.”


8 posted on 02/14/2014 7:37:40 AM PST by .45 Long Colt
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To: marshmallow
There seems to be an almost psychotic need in RCs to parade the Romanist organization around. This is, of course, in sharp distinction to those believers who, along with Paul, know only Christ and Him crucified, buried, risen again.

Keep waving your banners of Rome. But, let it be said here, plainly, by the believers in Jesus, alone, that the Romanist organization is lost in its own self-aggrandizement and errant doctrines. There is no hope for it, there is no admiration of it or any of its bathrobed men, there is no light in its words.

Hopefully, this will clear up any possible false hopes RCs around here may have that this constant self-promotion will result in folks swimming the Tiber.

9 posted on 02/14/2014 7:37:50 AM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: Augustinian monk

Yep. Fake “baptists.”


10 posted on 02/14/2014 7:42:36 AM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: .45 Long Colt

“Our Baptist forefathers wouldn’t recognize this generation of Baptists.”

Correct. In our church back in the ‘50s and ‘60s, the youth groups were taught the history of the Baptist church, apologetics, etc. Now, most Baptist churches are quasi-religious but are primarily social clubs and entertainment centers. Would I love to find a preacher who teaches in-depth Theology! Even here in TN where there are five Baptist churches within a couple miles of every home, they’re mostly fluff.

As for the pope, no true Baptist would admire him or his position. Baptists and cults do not, and should not, mix.


11 posted on 02/14/2014 7:50:59 AM PST by MayflowerMadam
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Comment #12 Removed by Moderator

To: marshmallow

Been listening to some of these sermons from John MacArthur on Catholicism on and off. Good stuff

http://www.gty.org/search/Catholic


13 posted on 02/14/2014 7:54:54 AM PST by Craigon
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To: Dutchboy88

It is starting to become obvious why Pope Benedict resigned for “health reasons”. The Vaticans PR was taking a beating in the western press because of his hardline tone. Now the “good cop” takes the reigns.


14 posted on 02/14/2014 8:07:33 AM PST by Augustinian monk
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To: Dr. Ursus; Dutchboy88
Exactly what is Dutchboy88's "group", Dr. Ursus, that so offends you? He is a member of the church the body of Christ and as a member, he is called to "Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine." (2 Tim. 4:2). Which is exactly what he does. That offends you? The only person who would be offended by that would be a person who is lost, and in need of the gospel of the grace of God and the correct doctrine for this age of grace and reconciliation with God.

It speaks more to your need than to Dutchboy88's responses on these threads. He is doing what God asks every member of His body to do. Are you?

15 posted on 02/14/2014 8:09:08 AM PST by smvoice (There are no prizes given for defending the indefensible.)
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To: Augustinian monk; fwdude; .45 Long Colt; Dutchboy88
From their website:

Bible Freedom is the belief in the centrality of scripture. We teach that every human being has the capacity and the freedom to read and interpret the Bible as she or he sees fit.

Yikes

Good catch. Reminds me of these threads, wherein the uber-liberal PC(USA) praises the pope:
Fascination with Francis stirs Protestant hearts
Fascination with Francis stirs Protestant hearts

16 posted on 02/14/2014 8:11:03 AM PST by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: smvoice

Yes,as a Catholic!


17 posted on 02/14/2014 8:13:30 AM PST by Dr. Ursus
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To: fwdude
"Something tells me these are the fake, liberal, black, social justice 'baptists.'"

"Make snap judgments about people when you don't even know who they are."
Matthew 7:1
Reversed Standard Version

18 posted on 02/14/2014 8:29:44 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Sanity is the adequate response of the mind to the real thing: adaequatio mentis ad rem.)
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To: Alex Murphy

A homosexual friend of mine has also praised the pope for various things he’s said/done. Tells me a lot.


19 posted on 02/14/2014 8:31:39 AM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o; fwdude

Actually, he was pretty close except for the black description. They are “progressive” and “moderate” by their own words. See their website.


20 posted on 02/14/2014 8:32:10 AM PST by Augustinian monk
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Reversed Standard Version

LOL!! Good one.

21 posted on 02/14/2014 8:33:10 AM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: marshmallow

Sadly, some Baptist churches (and other denominations) are getting caught up in the “Seeker Friendly” movement. You have church growth a mile wide and an inch deep. Watered down messages, praise band only music, stages with large screens, but no alter.

This is why we recently left our Church. The Pastor began by removing the word “Baptist” from the churches name. Then he had a Church growth consultant come in. Then he got rid of the orchestra and choir, then he told the congregation (Paraphrased): “If you’re not ‘all in’ with these changes, you’re not concerned for the lost...”

The seeker friendly movement is a dangerous trend many churches are adopting. Doubt me? Just take a listen to Rick Warren or Joel Osteen.


22 posted on 02/14/2014 8:33:37 AM PST by Artcore
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To: Augustinian monk

It seems that the Southern Baptists are the only ones worthy of the heritage attached to that name anymore.


23 posted on 02/14/2014 8:34:20 AM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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Comment #24 Removed by Moderator

To: Artcore
Indeed, the Great Apostasy is in full swing now, but we are not even in the middle of it. Expect it to get a LOT worse, and very quickly.

I had to leave a very large, independent Bible church in my city for the same reasons. It was becoming seeker-sensitive entertainment to fill the coffers. And they almost had to, with the multi-million dollar building operation budget they had to meet each month. And people condemn the Catholic churches for gaudy opulence.

The last straw was on "Student Sunday" when the youth basically take over conducting services for the day. It's bad enough to have segregated traditional/contemporary "worship," but on this day, the contemporary fully eclipsed even the traditional. And by contemporary, I'm talking 100 dB screeching, drums, and electric guitar. The singing sounded like dry heaves, and the message was oh, so squishy, shallow and non-offensive.

I wrote a very extensive "dear John" e-mail to the pastor that day.

25 posted on 02/14/2014 8:44:40 AM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: Augustinian monk; fwdude
I see they're linked with the "Cooperative Baptist Fellowship," which was (correct me if I'm wrong) the "middle group" when the SBC had a 3-way split about 20 years ago: SBC being most conservative, CBF being middle, and Alliance of Baptists, like the American Baptist Church (ABC) being liberal.

Every one of them, from right to left, believes in that item which made you, monk, say "Yikes": "We teach that every human being has the capacity and the freedom to read and interpret the Bible as she or he sees fit."

That's basic Baptist theology.

Once again, somebody straighten me out if I've got any kinks in this.

26 posted on 02/14/2014 9:08:29 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Sanity is the adequate response of the mind to the real thing: adaequatio mentis ad rem.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
"We teach that every human being has the capacity and the freedom to read and interpret the Bible as she or he sees fit."

That's basic Baptist theology.

Once again, somebody straighten me out if I've got any kinks in this.

If that is "basic Baptist theology," then the SBC would not have disfellowshipped (excommunicated) at least two entire congregations in Texas within the past decade for "interpreting the Bible as they saw fit."

There is a difference between reading the Bible for yourself, asking the Holy Spirit to make the passages meanings perspicuous to you, and imprinting your own desired interpretation onto it. The Scriptures are unambiguous and very plain on the essential doctrines of the faith. Any departure from them is heresy.

27 posted on 02/14/2014 9:16:59 AM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Interpreting the “bible as you see fit” is treating the bible as subjective. Therefore, it can be interpreted in different ways by different people in different ages. That’s relativism. I think you are confusing the issue with something else.


28 posted on 02/14/2014 9:22:05 AM PST by Augustinian monk
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To: fwdude
I agree that any departure from the plain meaning of Scripture is heresy. But I do not believe that each person has an equal authority to interpret Scripture, and if I did believe such a thing, I couldn't justify disfellowshipping anybody.

I'd bet good money that the disfellowshipped churches claimed very sincerely that their Scriptural interpretations were the fruit of the insight vouchsafed to them by the Holy Spirit. 'Cause people rarely or never say, "Now, this isn't the Holy Spirit, it's just me."

29 posted on 02/14/2014 9:38:53 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Sanity is the adequate response of the mind to the real thing: adaequatio mentis ad rem.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Who interprets Scripture for you, Mrs. Don-o?


30 posted on 02/14/2014 9:41:07 AM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: Augustinian monk
See #29. I do not agree with the idea that each person can interpret Scripture for himself. That is subjective, and leads to relativism. But the Baptist view, as I understand it, is that each believer has the capacity to determine, between himself and God, what the meaning of Scripture is. They recognize no other authority.

If I am wrong (and I could be!) I will appreciate being corrected.

31 posted on 02/14/2014 9:45:51 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Sanity is the adequate response of the mind to the real thing: adaequatio mentis ad rem.)
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To: fwdude

The Magisterium of the Catholic Church.


32 posted on 02/14/2014 9:47:02 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Sanity is the adequate response of the mind to the real thing: adaequatio mentis ad rem.)
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To: fwdude

I hear exactly what you’re saying!

Our church was turning into a huge Starbucks with a little religion thrown in. The music has turned into anything but praise music. It was nothing more than a Sunday morning Christian rock concert. Our pastor (probably about a 50 years old) and his associate pastors attempting to dress like they’re 20 year olds. Embarrassing!

Our pastor never, and I mean never gave any messages on any of the controversial (evil) things taking place in our society. His great goal is to reach the lost young people, but remained silent on the evils of homosexual marriage which, BTW is a huge topic hear in Utah. His stated philosophy is: “We have to tell them what we’re for, not what we’re against.” I guess our Pastor was not familiar with how Jesus and the Apostles dealt with sin!

Our Church views people in the following categories (and yes I’m serious!): 1) visitors, 2) regular attendees, 3) members, and 4) All In. Becoming very cultish to me!

I’m glad we left when we did!

Want a laugh (or cry), check this video out that makes fun of this seeker-sensitive movement. It really nails it!:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RJBd8zE48A

I know it’s none of my business, but I would love to read the letter you sent to your church!


33 posted on 02/14/2014 9:48:16 AM PST by Artcore
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To: Mrs. Don-o
The Magisterium of the Catholic Church.

Even when they're wrong?

Oh, that's right. They're never wrong.

34 posted on 02/14/2014 9:49:47 AM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: MichaelCorleone

Eternity.


35 posted on 02/14/2014 9:50:32 AM PST by Resolute Conservative
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To: Artcore
I'll send you the letter in a personal e-mail later.

I'm still searching for a church in my area, and am heartsick that everywhere I go I find virtually the same thing. I'm leaning toward the Missionary Alliance Church groups (A.W. Tozer's chosen affiliation); most of them seem to be of foreign extraction, which is not a problem. They seem to have a keener sense of what's really Christian than native-born Americans.

What really irks me is the proliferation of these "themed" churches: Cowboy churches seem to be in vogue in my area. There should never be any theme but Christ, and Him crucified.

36 posted on 02/14/2014 9:57:15 AM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: Artcore
Our pastor never, and I mean never gave any messages on any of the controversial (evil) things taking place in our society. His great goal is to reach the lost young people, but remained silent on the evils of homosexual marriage which, BTW is a huge topic hear in Utah.

Same with the mega-church I mentioned, other than with a passing reference occasionally, and toned down at that. You know why they don't? They are cowards. If activist homosexuals got wind that an entire sermon was devoted to the wickedness of homosexuality, they would protest in front of the Church, and possibly invade the services as has been done several times.

That wouldn't be good for "business."

37 posted on 02/14/2014 10:03:21 AM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

“But the Baptist view, as I understand it, is that each believer has the capacity to determine, between himself and God, what the meaning of Scripture is.” Never heard that before. Link?


38 posted on 02/14/2014 10:20:23 AM PST by Augustinian monk
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To: Artcore

Rick Warren and Joel Osteen are false prophets and hopefully not indicative of the direction of Christ’s church.


39 posted on 02/14/2014 10:29:17 AM PST by Bulwyf
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To: fwdude
Same with the mega-church I mentioned, other than with a passing reference occasionally, and toned down at that. You know why they don't? They are cowards. If activist homosexuals got wind that an entire sermon was devoted to the wickedness of homosexuality, they would protest in front of the Church, and possibly invade the services as has been done several times.

That wouldn't be good for "business."

I couldn't agree more! We expect political correctness, tolerance, and non-judgmental squishiness from politicians, but NOT from our Pastors! Best wishes and prayers that you find a church home where God's Word is Preached without apology. I look forward to reading your letter whenever you have time to send it via e-mail to me. Thanks!

40 posted on 02/14/2014 10:32:21 AM PST by Artcore
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To: Resolute Conservative

Cute, but that doesn’t answer the question. If you’re unable to formulate an answer I won’t press you on it.

But I do encourage you to do your own thinking with the help of the Holy Ghost. You will attain nothing of value without the Holy Ghost.


41 posted on 02/14/2014 10:39:24 AM PST by MichaelCorleone (Jesus Christ is not a religion. He's the Truth.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Southern Baptists don’t teach that...they teach that the Holy Spirit imparts to the believer what they need to understand from their readings of the scripture...that scripture isn’t understood from “private interpretation”; that is to say, not from the natural man, but rather by the light of the Holy Ghost that resides in each believer.

All believers are at different levels in their relationship with God. The Holy Spirit understands this and reveals the deep things of God to each child as needed.


42 posted on 02/14/2014 10:57:12 AM PST by mdmathis6 (American Christians can help America best by remembering that we are Heaven's citizens first!)
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To: fwdude; don-o; Tax-chick
Yep! :o)

By definition.

My husband (raised Baptist, now more Orthodox) once asked me, years ago, what I would do if the Pope made a ruling that direct contraception (intentional impairing the natural fertility of an act of sexual intercourse) was okey-dokey. As I remember it, my answer was along these lines:

Ugh. Nightmare scenario. Ain't gonna happen. But if it did , that's what I'd do.

And this is what God would do!

The Bad Catholic's Bingo Hall

CLICK AND ENJOY!

43 posted on 02/14/2014 11:02:13 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Sanity is the adequate response of the mind to the real thing: adaequatio mentis ad rem.)
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To: Augustinian monk
"Some of these basic convictions relate in a special way to how Baptists view and interpret the Bible. For example, belief in soul competency and the priesthood of all believers leads Baptists to insist that each believer-priest is competent to read and understand the Bible and that the opportunity and responsibility of each believer priest for reading and interpreting the Bible ought not be delegated to others. Similarly, Baptists insist that no other person or group of persons ought to attempt to assume the right to dictate to others what to believe."

http://baptistdistinctives.org/articles/the-authority-of-the-bible/

Scroll about 3/5 of the way down this page to see it in context.

44 posted on 02/14/2014 11:16:00 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Sanity is the adequate response of the mind to the real thing: adaequatio mentis ad rem.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

There is no direct Biblical teaching against Onanism per se, only that Onan was killed by God for withholding his semen to make an heir for his dead brother. Onan was a son of Judah. From Judah’s line, an heir would come; the one that would bear the Messiah. That the spiritual Dynamics were such God would take such a direct hand, as noted by the writer, Moses, should cause the biblical student to take pause. However, as an event from which formal teachings against contraception and masturbation are derived, that seems a stretch beyond what is already in the Mosaic levitical texts.

Is this passage of scripture the source of the Catholic Church’s teaching against contraception?


45 posted on 02/14/2014 11:18:44 AM PST by mdmathis6 (American Christians can help America best by remembering that we are Heaven's citizens first!)
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To: mdmathis6
Thank you for this explanation.

In my experience, every Scriptural interpretation, no matter how contradictory to competing interpretations, is proffered with the explanation that it is was arrived at by the light of the Holy Ghost that resides in each believer.

46 posted on 02/14/2014 11:20:51 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Sanity is the adequate response of the mind to the real thing: adaequatio mentis ad rem.)
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To: MichaelCorleone

He is integral in my life.


47 posted on 02/14/2014 11:39:43 AM PST by Resolute Conservative
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To: mdmathis6
First, no Christian church, denomination or congregation (with the possible exception of the Unitarian-Universalists, if you want to call them Christians) approved of contraception until 1930. That was when the Church of England broke ranks and OK'd contraception at their decennial Lambeth Conference. At the time that this happened, it was universally identified as a break with the historic beliefs of all Christendom.

So this was not a distinctive Catholic "thing". All of Christendom --- Protestant, Catholic, and Orthodox --- had understood for 2 millennia what was going on in Genesis 38, and had understood that God had instituted procreation as one of the goods of marriage, and hated what Onan had done to reject and sabotage His fruitful design for sexuality.

I don't think God would allow the entire Christian community and all its various sub-communities to be misled about this for 2 millennia, only to vouchsafe His real, holy, contraceptive intentions to the Anglicans, of all people.

[Sorry,Anglicans, I love ya but I had to say that.]

To answer your second question: the Catholic Church bases her teaching on Divine and Natural Law. Divine Law tells us from Genesis to Revelation that marital union was designed to be both unitive and fruitful, that it is a good when it is, and a bitter misfortune when it is not. There is not a single instance in the OT where births are not identified as blessings, and where sterility is not identified as a sign of people rejecting God, or God chastising His people.

Natural Law tells us that it is ethical to use drugs, devices and surgery to restore and strengthen natural physiological function, and unethical to intentionally impair or injure normal, natural function.

IOW, it's not virtuous to sabotage the healthy body. We are not the masters of the source of life. We are the ministers of God's design.

Do you believe that human sexuality embodies God's design?

48 posted on 02/14/2014 11:41:49 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Sanity is the adequate response of the mind to the real thing: adaequatio mentis ad rem.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

The video was cute. Then we started watching ten hours of “sweeping pink noise.”


49 posted on 02/14/2014 11:46:18 AM PST by Tax-chick (Oh, what fun.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

I read the entire page. That really doesn’t lend itself to subjective interpretation just individual responsibility. He also adds a disclaimer of the risk but says it’s better than the alternative.


50 posted on 02/14/2014 11:49:56 AM PST by Augustinian monk
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