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Pope Francis on Feb. 14: "Old Mass? Just a kind of fashion!"
Rorate caeli | 2/15/14 | New Catholic

Posted on 02/15/2014 11:08:30 AM PST by ebb tide

Yesterday (Friday, Feb. 14), Pope Francis held an audience with the Bishops of the Czech Republic who came to Rome for their ad limina visit. In the visit, as it usually happens in such cases, other than the formal address, the Pope heard the questions and comments of the bishops. Archbishop Jan Graubner, of Olomouc, told the Czech section of Vatican Radio what the Pope told him: [Abp. Jan Graubner speaks:] When we were discussing those who are fond of the ancient liturgy and wish to return to it, it was evident that the Pope speaks with great affection, attention, and sensitivity for all in order not to hurt anyone. However, he made a quite strong statement when he said that he understands when the old generation returns to what it experienced, but that he cannot understand the younger generation wishing to return to it. "When I search more thoroughly - the Pope said - I find that it is rather a kind of fashion [in Czech: 'móda', Italian 'moda']. And if it is a fashion, therefore it is a matter that does not need that much attention. It is just necessary to show some patience and kindness to people who are addicted to a certain fashion. But I consider greatly important to go deep into things, because if we do not go deep, no liturgical form, this or that one, can save us."

[Tip and translation: reader MC, from the Czech Republic.] _____________________________

Roman weather: always hard to predict

Traditionalists are extremely stable and strongly fashion-averse. But as for the winds in Rome!... Roma è mobile, qual piuma al vento! Under seven years ago, the opinion of the then-reigning and still living Holy Father (one who was much more acquainted with the issue at hand) was quite different:

Immediately after the Second Vatican Council it was presumed that requests for the use of the 1962 Missal would be limited to the older generation which had grown up with it, but in the meantime it has clearly been demonstrated that young persons too have discovered this liturgical form, felt its attraction and found in it a form of encounter with the Mystery of the Most Holy Eucharist ... . ... What earlier generations held as sacred, remains sacred and great for us too, and it cannot be all of a sudden entirely forbidden or even considered harmful. It behooves all of us to preserve the riches which have developed in the Church’s faith and prayer, and to give them their proper place. (Benedict XVI, July 7, 2007 Letter to Bishops)


TOPICS: Catholic
KEYWORDS: francis; tlm
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However, he made a quite strong statement when he said that he understands when the old generation returns to what it experienced, but that he cannot understand the younger generation wishing to return to it.
1 posted on 02/15/2014 11:08:30 AM PST by ebb tide
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Comment #2 Removed by Moderator

To: ebb tide

Seriously, that was the nicest I could come up with.

A “pope” stating that the liturgy of hundreds of years is just a @#$#*$%( fashion.

How long Lord until you deliver us from the wolves?


3 posted on 02/15/2014 11:14:02 AM PST by piusv
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To: ebb tide

Dear God, have mercy.


4 posted on 02/15/2014 11:14:39 AM PST by ottbmare (the OTTB mare, now a proud Marine Mom)
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To: ebb tide
I have to side with Pope Benedict XVI-

"What earlier generations held as sacred, remains sacred and great for us too, and it cannot be all of a sudden entirely forbidden or even considered harmful. It behooves all of us to preserve the riches which have developed in the Church’s faith and prayer, and to give them their proper place."

5 posted on 02/15/2014 11:16:26 AM PST by NCjim (Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.)
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Forgot to post the link:

Pope Francis on Feb. 14: "Old Mass? Just a kind of fashion!"

6 posted on 02/15/2014 11:22:30 AM PST by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide

He seems to be an ignorant cafeteria Catholic, who doesn’t understand the Theology embedded in the Liturgy.

The “ideas” embedded into the Liturgy and Traditions IS the Catholic Church.....and he is throwing out the Catholic Canon—and the Thomism (Reason and Logic and Faith) of the Catholic Church—the same as Vatican II did to create a “Church of Nice”—ecumenicalism to eliminate Truth/God—and create a Church to worship Man and remove God.

The more this pope “talks”, the more he reveals he is one of those “Progressive” Jesuits who were so destructive to the education of the masses who literally created “social” “justice” (such an irrational use of the word “Justice”) for the Marxist takeover of the Catholic Churches around the world.

And the Catholic Church used to wield the Sword of Truth.....totally emasculated now with Socialism (which ROTS the Soul). Sickening.


7 posted on 02/15/2014 11:27:17 AM PST by savagesusie (Right Reason According to Nature = Just Law)
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To: ebb tide

Francis is the Obama of Catholicism.

Not just disregard for history and what brought us to this place in time, but outright hostility to it.


8 posted on 02/15/2014 11:31:01 AM PST by Reagan80 ("In this current crisis, government is not the solution to our problems, government IS the problem")
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To: ebb tide

Must Catholics froth at everything Francis says? Did you miss him saying “We must go deep”? and that, missing the substance, no “moda” will compensate?

Learn from Hebrews about shadows, mere “copies of the heavenly things”. You cherish ancient ritual? Bid farewell to Rome and head back to Sinai!

Or don’t, and simply realize Jesus is “better”.

Protestantism’s much ballyhooed schisms have strong competition from supposedly unified Rome.


9 posted on 02/15/2014 11:33:17 AM PST by avenir (I'm pessimistic about man, but I'm optimistic about GOD!)
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To: ebb tide

Ok Pope Frankie —what do you want to see - an even larger contingent going over to the Bishop Lefebre group? —because they will. Most traditionalists, especially the younger ones, don’t think what they’re doing is either fashionable or whimsical. They’re serious. If it weren’t for groups like The Society of St. Peter (Vatican approved) more people would have gone Society of St. Pius X —Lefebre group. The question is —how much is a traditional latin catholic going to contort over being schismatic or beng forced to have the Novus Ordo as they’re only choice. The last 2 popes did a splendid job at making a place at the table for both kinds of people. Frankie, whatcha gonna do?


10 posted on 02/15/2014 11:40:42 AM PST by brooklyn dave
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To: brooklyn dave

It’s as if this pope wants schism.


11 posted on 02/15/2014 11:52:09 AM PST by piusv
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To: ebb tide

Oh, he must have been taken out of context. I can’t believe Pope Rock Star would ever say this.


12 posted on 02/15/2014 12:01:08 PM PST by WhistlingPastTheGraveyard (If you don't stand up, you don't stand a chance.)
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To: ebb tide

PLEASE!

The blame rests on the Vatican translation team. They are the worst in the world.

Frankly, it is practically a jobs program for the unfortunate, equivalent to the sign language interpreter Obama used in Africa.

Please review and compare: http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/12/15/obama-gets-the-fake-sign-language-interpreter-treatment-on-snl/

In other words, you are getting all torqued out of shape due to bad translation and media bias...


13 posted on 02/15/2014 12:42:02 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: ebb tide

Can he possibly be THAT shallow?


14 posted on 02/15/2014 12:48:00 PM PST by pgkdan
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To: piusv

You may be on to something there. I have felt that I’m being pushed away by this pope.


15 posted on 02/15/2014 12:49:38 PM PST by pgkdan
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To: ebb tide
He's sounding more like Ubama every day.

I wonder if he's an Alinskyite?

16 posted on 02/15/2014 2:41:12 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Islam is a religion of peace, and Moslems reserve the right to behead anyone who says otherwise.)
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To: ebb tide

Rorate Caeli has a rather disturbing, but unsurprising, post concerning the Holy Father’s view of the traditional Mass and the younger generation’s attachment to it.

Speaking to the Bishops of the Czech Republic during their recent ad limina visit, the pope said (according to Archbishop Jan Graubner who was present):

…he cannot understand the younger generation wishing to return to it [the ancient liturgy]. “When I search more thoroughly – the Pope said – I find that it is rather a kind of fashion. And if it is a fashion, therefore it is a matter that does not need that much attention. It is just necessary to show some patience and kindness to people who are addicted to a certain fashion. But I consider greatly important to go deep into things, because if we do not go deep, no liturgical form, this or that one, can save us.

“Search more thoroughly…”  Really?

I wonder exactly where this thorough search took place. If it was in His Holiness’ former See, the Archdiocese of Buenos Aires, perhaps that’s the problem.

Had he visited and searched a different diocese, you know… one with a healthy liturgical life wherein the traditional Mass is routinely made available to the faithful, he would have discovered what most everyone reading this blog already knows:

The devotion of the younger generation to the traditional Mass has nothing whatsoever to do with fashion; it has to do with a deep seated desire for authentic Catholic worship, unencumbered by anthropocentrism, protestantism and modernism.

As a matter of fact, Pope Francis has it exactly backwards.

The less-than-fifty year old rite invented by the Consilium and mercilessly inflicted upon the Church by Pope Paul VI, that is merely a fashion, and a passing one at that.

If the witness of the last eleven months tells us anything at all about this pope, it’s that he has no interest whatsoever in taking on the “smell of traditional Catholic sheep.”

They represent the solitary group toward which he has demonstrated exactly no “patience and kindness” whatsoever, choosing instead to belittle their spiritual offerings while hurling insults at them at every possible opportunity.

Either Archbishop  Graubner’s recollection is seriously flawed, or he and his brother bishops just had their collective legs pulled.


17 posted on 02/15/2014 2:42:22 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Brian Kopp DPM
The less-than-fifty year old rite invented by the Consilium and mercilessly inflicted upon the Church by Pope Paul VI, that is merely a fashion, and a passing one at that.

It's not passing quick enough.

18 posted on 02/15/2014 2:46:26 PM PST by piusv
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To: ebb tide
And if it is a fashion, therefore it is a matter that does not need that much attention. It is just necessary to show some patience and kindness to people who are addicted to a certain fashion.

Could he be any more condescending?? Crazy that the whole world thinks he's so humble. His Holiness is without a doubt the least humble pontiff in recent memory.
19 posted on 02/15/2014 2:53:27 PM PST by irishjuggler
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
The blame rests on the Vatican translation team. They are the worst in the world.

Since when? I don't recall this extreme, pervasive translation problem under Pope Benedict (and he's only been gone a year).

20 posted on 02/15/2014 2:58:03 PM PST by BlatherNaut
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