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Pope Francis on Feb. 14: "Old Mass? Just a kind of fashion!"
Rorate caeli | 2/15/14 | New Catholic

Posted on 02/15/2014 11:08:30 AM PST by ebb tide

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To: steve86

I’m sure you are.


51 posted on 02/16/2014 12:33:44 PM PST by escapefromboston (manny ortez: mvp)
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To: ebb tide

Maybe you should have become a priest and maybe then you could have been the Pope and people would care what you had to say.


52 posted on 02/16/2014 12:37:30 PM PST by escapefromboston (manny ortez: mvp)
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To: escapefromboston

Maybe you should become a real Catholic. And maybe then Catholics would care what you had to say. Right now, I sure don’t.


53 posted on 02/16/2014 12:46:19 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide

You’re obviously incredibly Catholic and not a protestant at all, so why didn’t you become a Priest??


54 posted on 02/16/2014 1:18:52 PM PST by escapefromboston (manny ortez: mvp)
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To: escapefromboston

Thanks for the compliment. Are you a priest, yourself?

If not, why not?


55 posted on 02/16/2014 2:10:03 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: Brian Kopp DPM

If Benedict really believed that the NO was banal and a fabrication, why did he allow it to continue in the Church....as the ordinary form?


56 posted on 02/16/2014 2:43:39 PM PST by piusv
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To: ALPAPilot
Pope Benedict also had some criticism of the TLM in his book The Spirit of the Liturgy, but he was trying to get to the essentials of the matter.

Care to quote that criticism? Once you do, I'll give you some of Pope Benedict's criticisms of Bugnini's Mass.

57 posted on 02/16/2014 6:55:42 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: savagesusie

“And the Catholic Church used to wield the Sword of Truth.....totally emasculated now with Socialism”

Please provide links.


58 posted on 02/16/2014 8:27:30 PM PST by NKP_Vet ("I got a good Christian raisin', and 8th grade education, aint no need ya'll treatin' me this way")
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

When Pope Francis says the Catholic Church believes in homosexual “marriage”, abortion on demand, and women priests you can start calling him another Obama. Until that happens please don’t compare this man to Obama. It just sounds silly.
His views are identical to Benedict, only the style is different. Benedict said you had to have special permission to exclusively do the Old Mass. New Mass is the preferred Mass, and that’s from Benedict.


59 posted on 02/16/2014 8:35:39 PM PST by NKP_Vet ("I got a good Christian raisin', and 8th grade education, aint no need ya'll treatin' me this way")
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To: ALPAPilot; ebb tide
"Can you believe it? Some thirty-five prayers, all of which have been repeated tirelessly and lovingly by countless priests, great and ordinary, throughout the whole world, for well over a thousand years-whose origins, indeed, even the sophisticated science of this century has not discovered - whose exquisiteness of expression inspired the world's greatest artists, Catholic and Non-Catholic, and whose mystical profundity were the meditations of the saints, and whose doctrinal phrasing served to catechize the faithful as well as to perfect their praise - these and the countless reverences, symbols, and gestures which accompanied and interpreted them are about to be stricken from a ceremony which ordinarily lasts hardly more than thirty minutes. And we are being told that it will be done without any essential change resulting in the act itself. In fact, in the above quotation there is no mention that any prayers will be removed at all, only "ritual and rubrics!" Now, if some nobody like myself were to say a similar thing while in the process of doing something like this, my integrity would be called into serious question, would it not?" - The Great Sacrilege by Father James F. Wathen

http://www.dailycatholic.org/issue/14Feb/tgs12.htm

60 posted on 02/17/2014 5:06:09 AM PST by BlatherNaut
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To: NKP_Vet

Too many to post....but here are some. I posted the Engle book: Sex Education: the Final Plague. More

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtQMyyarQ-0: (Battle for the Soul of the Church)

http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2013/02/fr-dariusz-okos-major-article-with-pope.html

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_x/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-x_enc_19070908_pascendi-dominici-gregis_en.html


61 posted on 02/17/2014 9:28:30 AM PST by savagesusie (Right Reason According to Nature = Just Law)
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To: piusv

gotcha! then why does the Vatican keep saying that? Cover the tracks of its own BS?


62 posted on 02/17/2014 9:36:13 AM PST by brooklyn dave
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To: brooklyn dave

I lost ya. Keep saying what?


63 posted on 02/17/2014 1:12:45 PM PST by piusv
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To: piusv
I'm not sure I understand. Reagan was describing the Novus Ordo, not the TLM. Francis was describing the TLM.

Reagan and Pope Francis were describing the difference between the two. Both emphasized fashion.

64 posted on 02/17/2014 2:38:05 PM PST by ALPAPilot
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To: ebb tide; BlatherNaut; Brian Kopp DPM; Reagan80; piusv
Care to quote that criticism? Once you do, I'll give you some of Pope Benedict's criticisms of Bugnini's Mass.

In the preface of the Spirit of the Liturgy

I should like to suggest a comparison. Like all comparisons, it is I'm many ways inadequate, and yet it may aid understanding. We might say that in 1918, the year that Guardini published his book, the liturgy was rather like a fresco. It had been preserved from damage, but it had been almost completely overlaid with whitewash by later generations. In the Missal from which the priest celebrated, the form of the liturgy that had grown from its earliest beginnings was still present, but, as far as the faithful were concerned, it was largely concealed beneath instructions for and forms of private prayer. The fresco was laid bare by the Liturgical Movement and, in a definitive way, by the Second Vatican Council.

In defending Pope Francis, I was not trying to make an argument for or against either the TLM or the Novus Ordo. What I was trying to point out is that I believe the Pope believes he is faced with a much graver problem, summed up in a story Pope Benedict related about St. Therese of Lisieux in Introduction to Christianity:

"To her, "religion" really was a self-evident presupposition of her daily existence; she dealt with it as we deal with the concrete details of our lives. Yet this very saint, a person apparently cocooned in complete security, left behind her, from the last weeks of her passion, shattering admissions that her fortified sisters toned down in her literary remains and that have only now come to light in the new verbatim editions. She says, for example, "I am assailed by the worst temptations of atheism". Her mind is beset by every possible argument against the faith; the sense of believing seems to have vanished; she feels that she is now "in sinners' shoes. In other words, in what is apparently a flawlessly interlocking world someone here suddenly catches a glimpse of the abyss lurking - even for her - under the firm structure of the supporting conventions. In a situation like this, what is in question is not the sort of thing that one perhaps quarrel about otherwise - dogma of the Assumption, the proper use of confession - all this becomes absolutely secondary. What is at stake is the whole structure; it is a question of all or nothing. That is the only remaining alternative; nowhere does there seem anything to cling to in the is sudden fall. Wherever one looks, only the bottomless abyss of nothingness can be seen.

I think he believes Christianity faces and existential crisis and that focusing on the relative merits of the various liturgical forms is akin to fiddling while Rome burn. Neither do I have much sympathy for the offended classes.

P.S.

Personally, I am fan of both Latin and the TLM. I also get my personal daily readings from http://www.breviary.net, which is also Pre-Vatican II

65 posted on 02/17/2014 3:17:29 PM PST by ALPAPilot
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To: ALPAPilot

It’s a sad state of affairs when the pope considers “Lex credendi, lex orandi” fiddling.


66 posted on 02/17/2014 3:36:32 PM PST by piusv
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To: ALPAPilot

Several years ago I was having an ongoing discussion over the course of multiple office visits with a former Franciscan priest (laicized and married) regarding the reintroduction of the TLM. At one point, he looked at me and asked, “Why do you hate the Novus Ordo mass?!?”

I was stunned. In talking about how much I loved the reverence and theology expressed in the TLM, I had never once said I hated the Novus Ordo. I replied, “I don’t hate the Novus Ordo! I attend it 6 days a week, and I attend the TLM on Sundays. How in Heaven’s name does that make me someone who “hates” the Novus Ordo?”

He was in turn stunned. He just assumed I hated and shunned the Novus Ordo because I loved the TLM.

There are lots of assumptions on all sides of this issue, many of them obviously false.


67 posted on 02/17/2014 4:36:28 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: ALPAPilot

AMEN to that!


68 posted on 02/17/2014 4:53:20 PM PST by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: ALPAPilot

As long as they are both done in a reverent manner.


69 posted on 02/17/2014 4:58:20 PM PST by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: ALPAPilot

Been away for a couple of days and see that the debating over which mass is better still goes on.


70 posted on 02/17/2014 4:59:35 PM PST by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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