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Is Contraception the Hill We Want to Die On?
Crisis Magazine ^ | february 14, 2014 | Austin Ruse

Posted on 02/16/2014 2:09:51 PM PST by NYer

Barbara Comstock 2012

Using artificial contraception to avoid pregnancy is a mortal sin, according to the teachings of the Catholic Church.

While only the Catholic Church maintains this teaching on contraception, it would be a better world if everyone did.

Paul VI was a prophet when he told the world that great societal evils would follow upon the widespread use of contraception: a loosening of morals, an objectification of women, family breakdown and all the rest of the pathologies that have visited us like furies.

Many of us also hold that contraception also leads inevitably to abortion. After all, according to national statistics, 94 percent of the women getting abortions have used contraception at some point in their lives. Meaning they know what it is and how to get it. Contraception is a promissory note that is cashed by abortion when it fails.

Contraception was made a constitutional right in this country by the Supreme Court in two cases, Griswold v. Connecticut and Eisenstadt v. Baird. Griswold gave married people the right to use it and the decision was based on the sanctity of marriage. Eisenstadt kicked over that rationale by making it a right for single people, too. And then came the deluge.

According to the United Nations the US has one of the highest incidents of contraceptive use in the world. Anybody who wants it can easily get it, including abortifacient “contraceptives” like Plan B that are now available over-the-counter. Bowls of condoms adorn the entrances of clubs and the desks of school administrators. A month’s supply of the pill can be had for as little as nine bucks a month at your local Wal-Mart. And the Obama administration has now made it federal law that all women get it for free.

The abortion crowd knows that Americans love their contraceptives and that Americans would fight tooth-and-nail against anyone who might try to take them away. That’s why the abortion crowd loves to make the abortion debate all about contraception. This is why the “war on women” rhetoric has been so effective. They have been able to convince a significant portion of the electorate that pro-lifers want to take away their contraceptive pills.

But do we?

Serious Catholics understand the evils associated with contraceptives, including the medical dangers to women who take them, and we tell that story. But I am not aware of any campaign to ban contraceptives. In order to do that, we would need to overturn not one but two Supreme Court decisions. I have never seen a bumper sticker that says, “Overturn Griswold … and Eisenstadt,” not even on Judy Brown’s car. Think Roe has been hard to overturn? Try Griswold.

Not even the US Conference of Catholic Bishops has made banning contraceptives a part of its lobbying program. Their spokesman, my wife, told the New York Times in 2003, “while the church does not lobby to ban contraception, it does oppose policies like coercive government birth-control programs or laws that force individuals or institutions with moral or religious objections to provide contraceptives.”

And by the way, when was the last time you heard a sermon from your priest about contraception, let alone a statement by your Bishop?

A Catholic politician in Northern Virginia has come under fire from a primary challenger and LifeSiteNews for asking the Federal government to allow adult women to buy oral contraceptives without a doctor’s prescription. She is being accused of being a bad Catholic and questions are being raised about whether faithful Catholics can support her.*

This letter came at a time when contraceptives are already available in drugstores all over Virginia. You see racks and racks of condoms everywhere. What’s more, there are 136 federally funded Title X family planning clinics in Virginia where poor women can get contraceptive pills for free and virtually instantly, as many have doctors on site who write the prescriptions.

I must admit if I was in her place, I would not have sent the letter, but then I could never be elected to this most liberal part of Virginia, the tony suburbs of Washington DC where she is the only Republican of any kind elected to the Virginia House of Delegates from inside the Beltway.

Even though she represents a profoundly pro-choice area, where abortion is practically a sacrament, she has a stellar pro-life record, voting against state funding of abortion, against abortion funding in a proposed state health exchange, in favor of ultrasound, and she even voted in favor of something that many pro-lifers oppose for prudential reasons, personhood for the unborn child. She voted a single time against an amendment to cut abortion funding from Obamacare but, according to pro-life watchdog Family Foundation of Virginia, she did so as a vote against Obamacare and not as a vote in favor of abortion. And one of her Republican challengers runs on this, and on contraception?

Such charges tend to be made in desperation and truth be told, the primary opponent making these charges has about as good a chance to win in this district as I do.

But her challenger’s chances aside, the more interesting question is what is the duty of the Catholic politician when it comes to contraceptives?

There is no question that the Catholic politician is duty bound to limit and then to stop legal abortion. After all, abortion is the deliberate killing of an innocent human being. Protecting the innocent from abortion is not a uniquely Catholic matter. Is contraception the same as abortion, or is it more like divorce, a fundamental Catholic teaching but one that we do not seek to impose on others. We may seek to convince others but we do not seek to impose it on them through public policy.

There are good public health reasons to be against contraception. Hormonal birth control pills can cause cancer, for instance. And this is a very important point to make when we properly try to undermine public confidence in contraceptives. But this is not a Catholic reason to vote against them and Delegate Barbara Comstock is being attacked on Catholic grounds. We do not see any great Catholic campaigns against smoking and smoking probably causes more cancer than the pill.

Comstock’s letter should be seen in the context of where we are in our new Obamacare world. Contraception was universally available before Obamacare, but now every person in America gets it for free, either through employer insurance or the healthcare exchanges. They have utterly won and somewhere in the pits of hell, sitting in the cocktail lounge, drinking a celebratory martini is Margaret Sanger.

Here’s an irony: the policy change Comstock called for could actually reduce the use of contraception, because women would actually have to reach into their own pockets to buy it. Are free pills paid by tax dollars the purer “Catholic” position than making women pay for it themselves?

Abortion advocates everywhere are eager to use contraceptives as a cudgel to beat us with and they would love nothing more than for us to actually fight on that ground. Comstock declined. In one fell swoop she took the cudgel away from them.

As for her critics, do they really want us to charge up Contraceptive Hill, flying our flags high and singing Te Deums? Must we now launch campaigns to ban contraceptives? And condoms, too? Must we make overturning Griswold and Eisenstadt a litmus test for candidates and judges?

Certain defeat awaits us up Contraceptive Hill. We should not fight there.

___________________________
* In the spirit of full disclosure, my wife and I, along with former US Ambassador to the Holy See Jim Nicholson and other serious Catholics, have endorsed Barbara Comstock’s candidacy to replace retiring Congressman Frank Wolfe in Virginia’s 10th Congressional District.



TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: abortion; austinruse; catholic; catholicpoliticians; contraception; crisismagazine; moralabsolutes; planb; prolife; va; virginia
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1 posted on 02/16/2014 2:09:51 PM PST by NYer
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To: Tax-chick; GregB; Berlin_Freeper; SumProVita; narses; bboop; SevenofNine; Ronaldus Magnus; tiki; ...

Enlightening, ping!


2 posted on 02/16/2014 2:10:22 PM PST by NYer ("The wise man is the one who can save his soul. - St. Nimatullah Al-Hardini)
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To: NYer

I’m not Catholic and don’t face the same religious restrictions on contraception but hope Catholics will stand firm.

Courage of his convictions on this issue was one of the reasons I voted for Rick Santorum in Michigan in 2012.


3 posted on 02/16/2014 2:15:13 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: NYer

Just because it may be a losing battle does not change the fact that it is a battle worth fighting.

Fight Griswold. Can you imagine how many of God’s intended creatures are never born because of this abomination?


4 posted on 02/16/2014 2:16:33 PM PST by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: NYer

the article stated “She is being accused of being a bad Catholic and questions are being raised about whether faithful Catholics can support her.”

She is not just a “bad Catholic” if she support contraception - she is a Catholic who definitely doesn’t get it and as such needs to be defeated so she rethinks her beliefs.

AMDG
Lurking’


5 posted on 02/16/2014 2:19:13 PM PST by LurkingSince'98 (Catholics=John 6:53-58 Everyone else=John 6:60-66)
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To: NYer

This is conservatives once-again playing whack-a-mole. But you can ask this very same question not just contraception - but on every economic/social issue there is. The pundits’ question always is:

Is XXXX (debt, obamacare, social security, food-stamps, abortion, extended unemployment benefits, IRS, EPA, affirmative action, voter verification, debt ceiling etc....) a hill you want to die on? Of course, the pundits’ answer is invariably “No.”


6 posted on 02/16/2014 2:20:15 PM PST by PGR88
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To: NYer
It's not the hill to die on.

Making arguments against contraception, which involves gaining the voluntary cooperation of people? OK.

Making noises about banning contraception, or otherwise restricting people's access to it? That will make us lose elections, real big.

7 posted on 02/16/2014 2:22:34 PM PST by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: NYer

What kind of authority can be claimed when it is nearly universally ignored?


8 posted on 02/16/2014 2:22:49 PM PST by Benito Cereno
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To: LurkingSince'98

how many “good Catholics” supported Obama?


9 posted on 02/16/2014 2:22:57 PM PST by chae (I was anti-Obama before it was cool)
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To: chae

“how many “good Catholics” supported Obama?”

actually not many Good Catholics supported obummer, but millions of badly catechized, social justice, Christmas and Easter Catholics love and voted for the guy.

My first hope would be they see the light and become protestant; second and even more unlikely, they have a real conversion of heart and faith and be true Catholics.

AMDG

Lurking’


10 posted on 02/16/2014 2:29:31 PM PST by LurkingSince'98 (Catholics=John 6:53-58 Everyone else=John 6:60-66)
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To: PGR88

RNC committeeman Dave Agema says the GOP has a really bad habit of running for cover at the first sign of trouble.

The simple fact is that you just can’t promote or sell your ideas from under a rock.


11 posted on 02/16/2014 2:29:32 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: LurkingSince'98; yldstrk
She is not just a “bad Catholic” if she support contraception - she is a Catholic who definitely doesn’t get it and as such needs to be defeated so she rethinks her beliefs.

Did you factor this in from the above post?

Here’s an irony: the policy change Comstock called for could actually reduce the use of contraception, because women would actually have to reach into their own pockets to buy it. Are free pills paid by tax dollars the purer “Catholic” position than making women pay for it themselves?

12 posted on 02/16/2014 2:32:56 PM PST by NYer ("The wise man is the one who can save his soul. - St. Nimatullah Al-Hardini)
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To: LurkingSince'98

“millions of badly catechized,”

I hear this a lot here.

Why so many worldwide?


13 posted on 02/16/2014 2:41:09 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

the 60’s generation of groovy priests and nuns who as some one recently said “wanted to appear a little protestant’ to be ecumenical.

60s parents who were too busy to personally teach their children to love their faith and left it up to to “religious ed” instructors on Sunday or lay teachers in parochial school.

the 60s idea that true love and understanding of the Catholic faith would just flower in the children without constant feeding, watering and pruning.

60s gay priests and nuns who were interested in ‘loving one another’ and some altar boys.

it is something we will be working for generations to correct.

Ad Majoram Dei Gloriam

Lurking’


14 posted on 02/16/2014 2:49:41 PM PST by LurkingSince'98 (Catholics=John 6:53-58 Everyone else=John 6:60-66)
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To: NYer

then why does she crow the fact that she is Catholic?

Does she not get that protestants, Catholics and others look for our faithful TO BE FAITHFUL!

So the ‘irony’ is she supports something that is not Catholic to end up with something which may actually be marginally more Catholic - i.e. the end justifies the means???

AMDG


15 posted on 02/16/2014 2:54:16 PM PST by LurkingSince'98 (Catholics=John 6:53-58 Everyone else=John 6:60-66)
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To: NYer
What Catholics must keep in mind is that they are a 2000 year old Church tasked with handing down the faith to each generation. Democrats are not. Americans are not. The Church will still exist long after America is gone.

And what will cause the destruction of America? It will be the same destructive policies the Democrats are trying to infect the Church with. While it is hard to fathom overturning Roe or contraception, culture changes dramatically over time. We are already on the cusp of a population collapse, which will cause severe economic problems. The Russians, one of the first to legalize abortion, are now rewarding births and considering restricting abortion. Russia has already had a demographic collapse, and sees things much differently than we do. Ukraine as well is restricting abortion. There is no reason to think that during our own demographic implosion that we will keep the same attitudes towards contraception and abortion. At that point, the Church will be there to lead us back.

16 posted on 02/16/2014 2:55:28 PM PST by Vince Ferrer
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To: NYer

Can you separate contraception hill and religious liberty?


17 posted on 02/16/2014 2:55:48 PM PST by ThomasThomas (It is your fault that I blame others for my actions!)
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To: NYer

Warning! Warning! Straw man alert! Straw man alert!


18 posted on 02/16/2014 3:00:35 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Islam is a religion of peace, and Moslems reserve the right to behead anyone who says otherwise.)
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To: NYer

While only the Catholic Church maintains this teaching on contraception, it would be a better world if everyone did.

_________________

Ms. Comstock ought to avail herself of some in-depth study of history and science. ALL Christians historically held contraception to be evil until fairly recently. How has the world become better for its use? I think the evidence will show it to be a lot worse ...with some studies directly correlating negative results to the use of artificial contraceptives.


19 posted on 02/16/2014 3:03:58 PM PST by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
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To: NYer

dear NYer,

It sounds like you may support this woman for the elective office.

Someone, maybe her father early on, should have taken her out to the woodshed when she was a young one and straightened her out before going off the rails.

It may not be too late a committee of supports, sponsors and financial backers could show her the light.

AMDG


20 posted on 02/16/2014 3:04:42 PM PST by LurkingSince'98 (Catholics=John 6:53-58 Everyone else=John 6:60-66)
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To: NYer; metmom; Alex Murphy

What hill?

Wasn’t there a thread just this morning bemoaning the fact that TV priests aren’t talking about contraception during their homolies?

Seems Rome needs to get it’s collective act together first.


21 posted on 02/16/2014 3:16:29 PM PST by Gamecock (Grace is not opposed to human activity. It's opposed to human merit. MSH)
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To: NYer

The forced sexualization of our kids and brainwashing them to be homosexuals should be the hill we die on.


22 posted on 02/16/2014 3:18:10 PM PST by mdmathis6 (American Christians can help America best by remembering that we are Heaven's citizens first!)
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To: Gamecock

Dear Game

re protestant trolls

Psychologists: Internet Trolls Are Narcissistic, Psychopathic, and Sadistic
Soulskill posted yesterday | from Hugh Pickens DOT Com

Hugh Pickens DOT Com writes “Chris Mooney reports at Slate that research conducted by Erin Buckels of the University of Manitoba confirmed that people who engage in internet trolling are characterized by personality traits that fall in the so-called Dark Tetrad: Machiavellianism (willingness to manipulate and deceive others), narcissism (egotism and self-obsession), psychopathy (the lack of remorse and empathy), and sadism (pleasure in the suffering of others). In the study, trolls were identified in a variety of ways. One was by simply asking survey participants what they ‘enjoyed doing most’ when on online comment sites, offering five options: ‘debating issues that are important to you,’ ‘chatting with others,’ ‘making new friends,’ ‘trolling others,’ and ‘other.’ The study recruited participants from Amazon’s Mechanical Turk website and two measures of sadistic personality were administered (PDF): the Short Sadistic Impulse Scale and the Varieties of Sadistic Tendencies Scale. Only 5.6 percent of survey respondents actually specified that they enjoyed ‘trolling.’ By contrast, 41.3 percent of Internet users were ‘non-commenters,’ meaning they didn’t like engaging online at all. So trolls are, as has often been suspected, a minority of online commenters, and an even smaller minority of overall Internet users. Overall, the authors found that the relationship between sadism and trolling was the strongest, and that indeed, sadists appear to troll because they find it pleasurable. ‘Both trolls and sadists feel sadistic glee at the distress of others. Sadists just want to have fun ... and the Internet is their playground!’ The study comes as websites are increasingly weighing steps to rein in trollish behavior but the study authors aren’t sure that fix is a realistic one. ‘Because the behaviors are intrinsically motivating for sadists, comment moderators will likely have a difficult time curbing trolling with punishments (e.g., banning users),’ says Buckels. ‘Ultimately, the allure of trolling may be too strong for sadists, who presumably have limited opportunities to express their sadistic interests in a socially-desirable manner.’ Perhaps posting rights should only be unlocked if you pass a test.”


23 posted on 02/16/2014 3:21:26 PM PST by LurkingSince'98 (Catholics=John 6:53-58 Everyone else=John 6:60-66)
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To: NYer

Certain defeat awaits us up Contraceptive Hill. We should not fight there.


I’m not a Catholic but its wrong to sacrifice ones principles because a majority may be against it or one may lose in the courts.

Abolitionists never gave up even after loss after loss in the Supreme Court.

Stand firm even when its not popular to do so.


24 posted on 02/16/2014 3:23:01 PM PST by RginTN
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To: Vince Ferrer

The author concludes it is not a battle we should fight. But if one considers the earliest comments from progressives in the Woodrow Wilson’s Presidency, it becomes abundantly clear that things like abortion, contraception, and minimum wage form a deadly circular argument.

...a Princeton economist said this:

“It is much better to enact a minimum-wage law even if it deprives these unfortunates of work… better that the state should support the inefficient wholly and prevent the multiplication of the breed than subsidize incompetence and unthrift, enabling them to bring forth more of their kind.”

Royal Meeker, U.S. Commissioner of Labor, under Woodrow Wilson.

If the teeming masses understood that the very thing they are clamoring for is their own extinction, would it change the game? For the Democrats this war on women issue is not about freeing a woman from a bad choice. Their incompetence is rewarded by them not bringing forth more of their kind.

Is contraception hill the battle worth having? Only if we truly are willing to remove the mask of the democrat party. Contraception/abortion is about doing away with a whole class of people. Minimum wage is there to lock people out of the job market, not make it more fair.


25 posted on 02/16/2014 3:23:56 PM PST by EBH ( The Day of the Patriot has arrived.)
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To: mdmathis6

dear mdmath..

you have got that exactly right.

to let any taint of that to fall upon the little ones is just asking the Lord to rain judgement down upon our own heads for looking the other way.

AMDG


26 posted on 02/16/2014 3:24:57 PM PST by LurkingSince'98 (Catholics=John 6:53-58 Everyone else=John 6:60-66)
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To: RginTN; EBH

thanks

yes, inaction is the same as assent.

Do nothing and they will take your silence as a vote for their warped principles.

Lurking’


27 posted on 02/16/2014 3:28:49 PM PST by LurkingSince'98 (Catholics=John 6:53-58 Everyone else=John 6:60-66)
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To: LurkingSince'98

That would fit the Papist/liberal paradigm very well, wouldn’t it?


28 posted on 02/16/2014 3:29:32 PM PST by Gamecock (Grace is not opposed to human activity. It's opposed to human merit. MSH)
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To: LurkingSince'98

“the 60’s generation of groovy priests and nuns who as some one recently said “wanted to appear a little protestant’ to be ecumenical.”

How come they took the bad parts?

If they took being on fire for Jesus, it would make a world revolution.


29 posted on 02/16/2014 3:34:08 PM PST by Jim Noble (When strong, avoid them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise. E)
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To: NYer

What this idiot doesn’t realize is that contraception is a symbolic issue. It’s the teensy, weeny, tiny pinch of incense to Caesar that really (as Obama assured them) “doesn’t mean anything,” but will bring down the whole thing.

Paul VI was weak and defeated, but even he realized this and that’s one of the reasons he said “no” in Humanae Vitae.


30 posted on 02/16/2014 3:36:22 PM PST by livius
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To: Jim Noble

Jim,

I agree as a traditional Catholic - I love our Church and I love the Scripture which certainly stokes the fire in my belly.

However, they are primarily socialists and I don’t believe they took the bad parts, but purposefully imported marxist/socialist agitprop and ‘liberation theology’ into the Catholic church wherever and whenever they can.

thaks
Lurking’


31 posted on 02/16/2014 3:45:47 PM PST by LurkingSince'98 (Catholics=John 6:53-58 Everyone else=John 6:60-66)
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To: Jim Noble

Jim,

I also see you point, by that I meant that the Catholic priests to appear more ecumenical - tried to be more protestant by accepting the protestant teachings on contraception which are generally more liberal than Catholic teachings on contraception.

thanks


32 posted on 02/16/2014 3:48:59 PM PST by LurkingSince'98 (Catholics=John 6:53-58 Everyone else=John 6:60-66)
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To: NYer

It profits a man nothing to give his soul for the whole world...but for Northern Virginia?


33 posted on 02/16/2014 3:51:03 PM PST by RichInOC (2013-14 Tiber Swim Team)
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To: NYer

The saddest part for this country is that the brightest and most capable women and men are electing to opt out of children. The pill is the weapon of mass destruction. Darwin did not count on the competition from lifestyle to negate the survival of the fittest.


34 posted on 02/16/2014 3:52:17 PM PST by ex-snook (God is Love)
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To: cripplecreek

I wonder, what would happen if Catholics actually voted based upon what the Church teaches? I mean, Catholic Democrips vote despite what the Church teaches so why are Republicants allowing this issue to define the ‘opposition’ to the democrips?


35 posted on 02/16/2014 3:56:24 PM PST by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: NYer

If you are not willing to fight for your principles then you really don’t have any principles..


36 posted on 02/16/2014 4:00:15 PM PST by SECURE AMERICA (Where can I go to sign up for the American Revolution 2014 and the Crusades 2014?)
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To: MHGinTN

hi MHG..

those Catholic Demorats are not catholic at all by voting for abortion on demand they have automatically ex-communicated themselves from the body of the Church, latae sententiae. They just don’t accept it.

“A latae sententiae penalty is one that follows ipso facto or automatically, by force of the law itself, when a law is contravened; a penalty that binds a guilty party only after it has been imposed on the person is known as a ferendae sententiae (meaning “sentence to be passed”) penalty.”

AD Majoram Dei Gloriam


37 posted on 02/16/2014 4:00:56 PM PST by LurkingSince'98 (Catholics=John 6:53-58 Everyone else=John 6:60-66)
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To: NYer
Like it or not, the Church remaining faithful to what Scripture and preaching and teaching against contraception is the hill we'll "die on" and it's playing out in the courts as we speak. If the Church fights in court, loses, and then yields rather than closing down what it has to and starting to routinely proclaim the Truth, it's all over for the Catholic Church in this country.

It's not a matter of fighting to change laws, it's a matter of fighting to change people's hearts. The laws that forbade contraception were passed when Catholic votes were insignificant because all Protestants agreed with what Scripture makes clear. They were repealed when "enlightened" interpretations first swayed the "elites" and rapidly accepted by Protestants because their churches decided in the sixties to not risk a battle on that particular hill.

If there is no Catholic backbone left to stick to the Truth come what may, it'll be the straw that broke the camel's back for this country.

38 posted on 02/16/2014 4:01:55 PM PST by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: LurkingSince'98

Um, then if they have excommunicated themselves why are they continuing to receive Eucharist from the Priests?


39 posted on 02/16/2014 4:02:31 PM PST by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: NYer

“While only the Catholic Church maintains this teaching on contraception...”

The Amish and old order Mennonites never changed either. Also, if one searches for ‘Protestants/Evangelicals/fundamentalists against birth control within marriage’ it seems there is a growing movement that is connecting the dots between acceptance of bc and other societal ills, some are flatly rejecting bc within marriage.

Freegards, thanks for all the pings on FR


40 posted on 02/16/2014 4:07:00 PM PST by Ransomed
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To: NYer

The hill is not contraception. The hill is government DEMANDING contraception.


41 posted on 02/16/2014 4:10:55 PM PST by abclily
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To: Benito Cereno

the Nazis were popular in their time, does that make it right


42 posted on 02/16/2014 4:17:57 PM PST by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: MHGinTN

There are obviously priests who neck deep in the mire with them - aiding and abetting.

They have been replaced in a few places and died off in others. New faithful and conservative bishops have denied Eucharist to politicians but do you honestly expect the main stream to report that? Ever?

Thanks
AMDG


43 posted on 02/16/2014 4:25:35 PM PST by LurkingSince'98 (Catholics=John 6:53-58 Everyone else=John 6:60-66)
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To: LurkingSince'98
" They just don’t accept it."

True, but making that point is a waste of time in most cases.

In an interview Pelosi said what she believes and detailed how she decides what is right and it sounds exactly like what the vast majority of anti-Catholics on FR say is the correct and true way to be Christian.

Is that anti-Catholic crowd bragging about having converted her now that she's made a very non-Catholic public profession of faith? No, because she says she's Catholic she is one in the eyes of those who recognize no authority higher than the Self.

Non-Catholics who don't even accept the idea that there's any authority other than their Self and Self Alone can't comprehend the idea of someone excommunicating their self much less accept that fact.

44 posted on 02/16/2014 4:39:15 PM PST by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Rashputin

hi Rash...

Excellent explanation

Thanks

AMDG


45 posted on 02/16/2014 4:48:48 PM PST by LurkingSince'98 (Catholics=John 6:53-58 Everyone else=John 6:60-66)
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To: Benito Cereno
Why don't you ask Sodom and Gomorrah? Or Noah's buddies?
46 posted on 02/16/2014 5:33:10 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: NYer

and just why should we assume WE are the ones to die on that hill?


47 posted on 02/16/2014 7:11:19 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: LurkingSince'98
"hi MHG.. those Catholic Demorats are not catholic at all by voting for abortion on demand they have automatically ex-communicated themselves from the body of the Church, latae sententiae. They just don’t accept it."

See MHGinTN, and here you thought the Catholic vote was a problem, evidently it isn't, since it can so easily be dismissed. They are not "good" Catholics, republican Catholics, so their votes don't count, or something.

48 posted on 02/16/2014 7:16:32 PM PST by ansel12 (Ben Bradlee -- JFK told me that "he was all for people's solving their problems by abortion".)
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To: NYer

**Is Contraception the Hill We Want to Die On?**

Many are choosing that.


49 posted on 02/16/2014 9:23:18 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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Comment #50 Removed by Moderator


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