Pope Francis, with retired Pope Benedict present, creates new cardinals

cns ^ | February 23, 2014 | Cindy Wooden

[SumProVita]

In what way do I not *sound* like a Catholic?

[SumProVita]

Don’t you remember asking me that last night?
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I have asked you this a number of times. I have yet to see an answer. If you have answered, kindly refer me to that and I will not ask again.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Or were you drunk?

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This type of question is unkind at best and not the mark of one who strives to grow in Christian virtue.

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I’ve already given you my answer.

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Please excuse me, but I have not seen this answer. Kindly refer me to it.

[NKP_Vet]

Francis is not going to change anything. He’s just as traditional as other popes. What he does do is talk to much,
but that’s the kind of person he is.

[SumProVita]

I was thinking along similar lines. Given the complete history of the Church, it’s an astonishing question to be sure. I wonder if your question will be answered? It’s a shame that ebb tide could not listen to Dr. Ralph Martin or Fr. Thomas Rosica, C.S.B.

To listen to them both is a great blessing that allows us to see the present day workings of the Holy Spirit. When Fr. Rosica describes the what took place at the Synod, at the Conclave and is taking place presently at the Vatican....well, it’s as if one was listening to an account of what the Apostles are up to after Pentecost. Both are men of active faith and great zeal for God, His plan and His Church! I am very excited about the focus on the new evangelization and the light of the Church as the secular, relativistic culture around us all crumbles even further.

I see John Paul II, our dear Benedict and Francis as the Triad chosen by God to restore and prepare the Church for what is still to come. Let us all continue to increase our daily prayer for the Church. There is much to be done...and the base of all of our “doing” MUST be led by the Spirit...and we MUST all allow our God to make us HOLY.

:-)

[SumProVita]

ebb tide, I went back to look and I apologize as I have found your answer that you DO profess that Francis is the the duly elected Pope as chosen by the Holy Spirit of the Catholic Church. My activity on FR has been spotty these days and somehow I missed it.

That said, I still wonder why you post so much that is critical of Pope Francis...particularly in a forum that has so many non-Catholics who are rabidly critical of the Church?

[SumProVita]

Knowing Francis, he most certainly could.

______________________________

Do you personally know Pope Francis? Do you speak Spanish?

Also, how do you define “neo-Catholic?”

[SumProVita]

You might find this interesting:

http://wdtprs.com/blog/2014/02/card-burke-explains-what-pope-francis-is-up-to

[SumProVita]

Here is another reliable source:

http://www.courageouspriest.com/cardinal-burke-pope-affirm-teachurch

Our trust is in the LORD!

[SumProVita]

Regarding ecumenism:

“ECUMENISM. Now there’s a word that, ironically, can start wars.

Over the weekend, those subscribed to my weekly reflections received The Coming Wave of Unity. It speaks of the coming unity that Jesus prayed for—that we would “all be one”—and was affirmed by a video of Pope Francis praying for this unity. Predictably, this has created confusion among many. “This is the beginning of the one world religion!” say some; others, “This is what I have been praying for, for years!” And yet others, “I am not sure if this is a good or a bad thing….” Suddenly, I hear again the question that Jesus directed to the Apostles: “Who do you say I am?” But this time, I hear it re-phrased to refer to His body, the Church: “Who do you say My Church is?”

In today’s Gospel, The disciples and scribes were arguing when Jesus descended from Mount Tabor after the Transfiguration. Perhaps it was an extension of what was being discussed a few verses earlier in the Gospel of Mark:

Elijah will indeed come first and restore all things, yet how is it written regarding the Son of Man that he must suffer greatly and be treated with contempt? (Mark 9:12)

You see, the scribes expected Elijah to come and bring about an era of peace and justice in which a political Messiah would overthrow the Romans and restore Jewish rule. The Apostles, on the other hand, had just been told that the Messiah must “suffer and die.” And then there was the “large crowd” surrounding them who, when they saw Jesus, were “utterly amazed”—to them, He was simply a miracle-maker. So much confusion over Christ’s mission!

Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life”—not just, I am the way, or merely, I am the truth—but all three. We should therefore see these reflected in His mystical body as well. To be certain, there are some who say that the Church is merely the “way” of Christ, that is, of social justice and preference for the poor—and that is all that is necessary. Then there are those who say that all that is necessary is a strict adherence to her doctrines, to the “truth.” And yet others say that the Church is all about experiencing the “life” of Christ in the charisms, worship, and experience of prayer. The problem lies not in these particular visions of the Church’s mission, but rather in the myopic notion that excludes one or the other.

Today’s readings affirm that all three visions are part of the Church’s mission and identity: We are all called to live our faith through good works to bring about justice and peace in our world—the “way”:

Who among you is wise and understanding? Let him show his works by a good life in the humility that comes from wisdom. (First reading)

The foundation of our good works are the precepts and commandments of God found in Sacred Tradition—the “truth”:

The decree of the LORD is trustworthy, giving wisdom to the simple. (Today’s Psalm)

And the power of the truth is demonstrated through the charisms and incarnated through prayer and intimacy with God—the “life”:

Everything is possible to one who has faith. (Today’s Gospel)

It is clear then, is it not, where the wars and “jealousy and selfish ambition” between us come from? A lack of humility, of obedience to the commandments, and of faith in the power of God. All three are necessary.

That is the beginning of authentic ecumenism.”

Source: Spiritual Food For Thought—
The Beginning of Ecumenism

THE NOW WORD ON MASS READINGS
for February 24th, 2014 by Mark Mallet

http://www.markmallett.com/blog/the-beginning-of-ecumenism

[piusv]

You might find Mortalium Animos interesting.

[piusv]

I don’t respond to “gotcha” type questions.

[FourtySeven]

Who would these pre-Conciliar popes be [that are arguably worse than Francis]?

When I wrote my post to ebb tide, the Popes from the Borgias came to my mind, and not because of the Showtime series made of them, but from actual historical fact.

The gleeful Protestants I mentioned like to dig up (no pun intended) Pope Formosus' "trial" by Pope Stephen, the entire affair being rich in scandal. Both are no "blessed" certainly.

All of these Popes (and more) are all "pre-conciliar" (obviously). Which is why I'm often surprised and perhaps a bit befuddled when some bandy that term about as if it's some badge of honor for any Pope who happens to fall in that category by history (and by implication a badge of dishonor for any Pope "post-conciliar" as it were).

Were there mighty men of God in the Chair of St Peter before Vatican II (and even I): yes. But there sure were some stinkers too, that can't (and shouldn't) be swept under the rug in some vain attempt to implicate Vatican II.

The fact is the Church is the same Church since Christ, sometimes led by men weaker than others (to put it mildly). Neither council is a dividing line that can be used to determine a greater propensity of doctrinal or personal "shadiness". The bad Popes in the past never taught error as Vicar of Christ, thus we can say with confidence to our Protestant detractors, the gates of hell have never prevailed. However this doctrinal (not to mention dogmatic) purity are certainly not the result of any effort to "feed His sheep" on the part of the pre-conciliar Popes mentioned.

[piusv]

"Over the weekend, those subscribed to my weekly reflections received The Coming Wave of Unity. It speaks of the coming unity that Jesus prayed for—that we would “all be one”—and was affirmed by a video of Pope Francis praying for this unity."

vs. Pope Pius XI, Mortalium Animos,1928:

Is it not right, it is often repeated, indeed, even consonant with duty, that all who invoke the name of Christ should abstain from mutual reproaches and at long last be united in mutual charity? Who would dare to say that he loved Christ, unless he worked with all his might to carry out the desires of Him, Who asked His Father that His disciples might be "one."[1] And did not the same Christ will that His disciples should be marked out and distinguished from others by this characteristic, namely that they loved one another: "By this shall all men know that you are my disciples, if you have love one for another"?[2] All Christians, they add, should be as "one": for then they would be much more powerful in driving out the pest of irreligion, which like a serpent daily creeps further and becomes more widely spread, and prepares to rob the Gospel of its strength. These things and others that class of men who are known as pan-Christians continually repeat and amplify; and these men, so far from being quite few and scattered, have increased to the dimensions of an entire class, and have grouped themselves into widely spread societies, most of which are directed by non-Catholics, although they are imbued with varying doctrines concerning the things of faith. This undertaking is so actively promoted as in many places to win for itself the adhesion of a number of citizens, and it even takes possession of the minds of very many Catholics and allures them with the hope of bringing about such a union as would be agreeable to the desires of Holy Mother Church, who has indeed nothing more at heart than to recall her erring sons and to lead them back to her bosom. But in reality beneath these enticing words and blandishments lies hid a most grave error, by which the foundations of the Catholic faith are completely destroyed.

[SumProVita]

In other words, you have no response. You suggest very negative things about Pope Francis while claiming that you can say them because you *know* him.

Please be careful and consider that posting such only divides the Church and can create confusion. There are many rabid non-Catholics on FR who USE such information (much of which is often incorrect) to attack the Church.

“Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work, to speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people. For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led astray, slaves to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by others and hating one another.” (Titus 3:1-3 )

[SumProVita]

Exactly!!! ...and the gates of hell shall not prevail against the Church even though the sin of humans still takes place. Thus it has always been and shall continue to be.

Selah!

;-)

[piusv]

You’re right. I do not have a response for you. I do not have to make an account to you. And I’m very comfortable with my criticism of Francis. It is based on Traditional Catholic teaching.

Francis is proving to be heretical in his words and actions. Pius XI and Francis (and all of the post-conciliar popes) speak two different languages when it comes to unity. That is clear. If he can believe in and teach unity that the Catholic Church condemned for 1960 years, then I know that he is capable of doing so much more that goes against Traditional Catholic teaching.

Some folks refuse to even consider it. Been there, done that. I’m not willing to keep my head in the sand any longer.

[SumProVita]

Of course, we should understand that there are false notions of ecumenism but authentic ecumenism was prayed for by Jesus Himself before he ascended to heaven. It is INDEED important and willed by the heart of Jesus Himself.

How is the ecumenism referred to by Pope Francis, per Mr. Mallet, any different than that which Jesus calls for?

Here you can find more information/analysis by Fr. Z (Mortalium Animos) which is good:

http://wdtprs.com/blog/2011/02/podcazt-166-toward-a-true-ecumenism

[piusv]

Because Traditional Catholic Teaching states that the Church is already united in the Catholic Church. This is not what the post-conciliar popes/Vatican II teaches. Post-conciliar popes also take part in non-Catholic worship which is forbidden pre-Vatican II.

These teachings didn’t all of a sudden change in the 1960’s.

[SumProVita]

Francis is proving to be heretical in his words and actions.

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Good grief...how?

Also, do you understand the difference between Tradition (with a capital “T” and tradition (with a small “t”)?

Another thing, I have to wonder what background you have that would assure one that you have authoritative standing or background to speak so critically against the the Pope/hierarchy of the Church? Do you know better than they? OR...are you a member of one of the uber-Traditionalist groups who also think they know better than those ordained by the action of the Holy Spirit to be our leaders?

[SumProVita]

Because Traditional Catholic Teaching states that the Church is already united in the Catholic Church.

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This would have to be explained a great deal more.

also, NO ONE is stating that Catholic doctrine be changed to accommodate non-Catholics who wish to enter the Church. The entire force of the new evangelization being called for by the Church reinforces that strongly....and stresses that even baptized but not adequately catechized Catholics must learn exactly what the Church teaches and why!