Skip to comments.Pope: Professing the faith without good works is just spouting hot air
Posted on 02/22/2014 3:52:37 PM PST by NYer
good work NYer
This includes Catholics and Protestants.
The reason I know this is that I am a caregiver to an elderly parent (used to be parents but Dad passed away a year ago at 94...and in his elder years, he was happy as a clam). I see what goes on in my small corner of the world. Loving folks are always knocking on my door.
The Pope is close to being correct on this one.
Actually, it is the being Born Again that Christ commanded us to be, and the accompanying change of heart, that allows us to do the good works commanded by Christ and God in the spirit demanded by God, Loving God with all our hearts, minds, and souls.
Without that necessary change of heart, all of our works, whether we profess to being a Christian or not, are as dirty filthly rags in the eyes of God.
Remember, from II Corinthians 5:17:
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
When one has faith, one opens their heart to allow the Spirit of God to come into it and change it. When that happens the good works follow.
What the pope is saying here is that people profess faith but their lives do not reflect that faith.
Matthew 15:8-9 ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.’
Faith is a verb.
Completely in agreement; so many use their ‘belief’ to kind of separate themselves from the bad things they do. Like a “good girl” who tarts around and does cruel acts.
Galatians 2:16shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
And this is a oddity.
I haven't actually met any people who say they have faith, yet do not evince the Holy Spirit's love.
But I have encountered some--a few--here on our beloved FR.
If they think about it, they will recognize themselves.
They claim that they belong to the True Church and those who don't are going to hell.
I do not say this to create division. I say this to clarify this thread.
BTW, I am far from perfect. I am a sinner (however forgiven).
But we have brothers and sisters here who are lying to themselves.
They say they believe but they are not saved...they are not filled with the Holy Spirit.
When it comes to good works...ask yourself, "are you capable of good works without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit? Are your good works yours...or are they His?
Oopsy, a grammatical error. I await chastisement by those of the True Church...who in their smallness will seek to hurt those who do not believe as they do.
yeah but, faith without works, you’re still saved where as works without faith , you are lost.
Once again, Pope Francis is not sticking with what the Bible says. We must refer to the Bible which says we are justified by faith, not works:
“And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly [Christ], his faith is counted as righteousness,” Rom. 4:5
“nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified.” -—Gal. 2:16
“For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.”-—Rom. 3:28-30
“For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. 9Not by works, lest any man should boast.”-—Eph. 2:8-9
If you do have righteousness, it comes from your faith:
“and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith.” -—Phil. 3:9
I know many people who profess a belief in Jesus Christ and yet their lives do not show that faith. Just look at so many of our politicians and entertainers who claim to have faith but promote what is sinful.
That is what the pope is talking about here. As a follower of Christ, we should be conforming ourselves to Him but too many want to make Him in their own image so that they can be comfortable in their sins.
Reading 1 Jas 2:14-24, 26
What good is it, my brothers and sisters,
if someone says he has faith but does not have works?
Can that faith save him?
If a brother or sister has nothing to wear
and has no food for the day,
and one of you says to them,
“Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well,”
but you do not give them the necessities of the body,
what good is it?
So also faith of itself,
if it does not have works, is dead.
Indeed someone might say,
“You have faith and I have works.”
Demonstrate your faith to me without works,
and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.
You believe that God is one.
You do well.
Even the demons believe that and tremble.
Do you want proof, you ignoramus,
that faith without works is useless?
Was not Abraham our father justified by works
when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?
You see that faith was active along with his works,
and faith was completed by the works.
Thus the Scripture was fulfilled that says,
Abraham believed God,
and it was credited to him as righteousness,
and he was called the friend of God.
See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
For just as a body without a spirit is dead,
so also faith without works is dead.
Yes, believers are justified, or declared righteous before God, solely by faith. You must look at James’ writings in their context. Works are the evidence of salvation through faith. These are not works we try to do to demonstrate our righteousness. Authentic faith leads automatically to good works so that works become the evidence of our salvation. It is something that God does by working in those who are saved.
A believer may ask for the power of God to make a person’s short leg to grow instantly to the length of the other leg. Such events happen not because of the power of the Christian. The Christian has no healing power. It is the power of the Holy Spirit that does the healing. Through faith God works in the life of the believer. Works, such as healings, demonstrates God’s power through our faith.
Faith is a verb.
Like, I faith God???
So does James void those verses post in #13??? Shouldn’t one try to reconcile all the scriptures instead of pit some against others???
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The Pope really nailed that!
There are many people who seem to think that just claiming "faith" verbally, or letting the concept of "faith" gently and lazily roll around in their cerebral meanderings, is the same as possessing faith. However, as the Holy Spirit clearly and plainly told St. James, the truth is:
So-called "Faith" minus Works = "Dead Faith" (which is Not-Faith).
(And absolutely no one can be saved by "Not-Faith", which, like the Pope said, amounts to nothing more than mere words, or the "spouting of hot air".)
With that wonderfully insightful and inspiring thought to meditate on, I will retire for the night, and wish all a goodnight!
We should look at James’ writing in context of other writings. When we do, we find that faith allows the power of the Holy Spirit to work through us in a mighty way. It is not through our own effort, but God’s. Because of that, we give credit not to ourselves, but to God.
Exactly...These Catholics like to throw scriptures in the trashcan that rip their theology apart...Pretend they don't exist...And then expect us to believe that their posts have some kind of legitimacy...
this teaching by the Pope resonates within me, if i understand him correctly: true faith and works are not separable. they are a unity with Christ Jesus.
faith without the works of the law *or* works without faith on Jesus amount to vanity.
Paul wrote a lot, where did Luther add 'alone'.
All of Paul's letters? Since you had an 's' on the end of letter, there must be more than one. Any context to this or just another jab at Luther?
Eph 2: 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is notyour own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Romans 4 3 For what does the Scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness. 4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5 And to the one who does not work but believes in[b] him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works: 7 Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; 8 blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.
Romans 4 13 For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void. 15 For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression. 16 That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring
Gal 2 15 We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; 16 yet we know that a person is not justified[b] by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
My bolds, pretty plain to the casual observer that Luther didn't change Paul's inspired thoughts at all, the addition of 'alone' in the Gal passages was required in German to express what Paul intended.
Other 'alone's in the same passage. Recognize any of them?
The Roman Catholic writer Joseph A. Fitzmyer points out that Luther was not the only one to translateRomans 3:28 with the word alone.
At 3:28 Luther introduced the adv. only into his translation of Romans (1522), alleyn durch den Glauben (WAusg 7.38); cf. Aus der Bibel 1546, alleine durch den Glauben (WAusg, DB 7.39); also 7.3-27 (Pref. to the Epistle). See further his Sendbrief vom Dolmetschen, of 8 Sept. 1530 (WAusg 30.2 , 627-49; On Translating: An Open Letter [LuthW 35.175-202]). Although alleyn/alleine finds no corresponding adverb in the Greek text, two of the points that Luther made in his defense of the added adverb were that it was demanded by the context and that sola was used in the theological tradition before him.
Robert Bellarmine listed eight earlier authors who used sola (Disputatio de controversiis: De justificatione 1.25 [Naples: G. Giuliano, 1856], 4.501-3):
Origen, Commentarius in Ep. ad Romanos, cap. 3 (PG 14.952)
. Hilary, Commentarius in Matthaeum 8:6 (PL 9.961).
Basil, Hom. de humilitate 20.3 (PG 31.529C).
Ambrosiaster, In Ep. ad Romanos 3.24 (CSEL 81.1.119): sola fide justificati sunt dono Dei, throughfaith alone they have been justified by a gift of God; 4.5 (CSEL 81.1.130).
John Chrysostom, Hom. in Ep. ad Titum 3.3 (PG 62.679 [not in Greek text]).
Cyril of Alexandria, In Joannis Evangelium 10.15.7 (PG 74.368 [but alludes to Jas 2:19]).
Bernard, In Canticum serm. 22.8 (PL 183.881): solam justificatur per fidem, is justified by faith alone.
Theophylact, Expositio in ep. ad Galatas 3.12-13 (PG 124.988).
To these eight Lyonnet added two others (Quaestiones, 114-18):
Theodoret, Affectionum curatio 7 (PG 93.100; ed. J. Raeder [Teubner], 189.20-24).
Thomas Aquinas, Expositio in Ep. I ad Timotheum cap. 1, lect. 3 (Parma ed., 13.588): Non est ergo in eis [moralibus et caeremonialibus legis] spes iustificationis, sed in sola fide, Rom. 3:28: Arbitramur justificari hominem per fidem, sine operibus legis (Therefore the hope of justification is not found in them [the moral and ceremonial requirements of the law], but in faith alone, Rom 3:28: We consider a human being to be justified by faith, without the works of the law). Cf. In ep. ad Romanos 4.1 (Parma ed., 13.42a): reputabitur fides eius, scilicet sola sine operibus exterioribus, ad iustitiam; In ep. ad Galatas 2.4 (Parma ed., 13.397b): solum ex fide Christi [Opera 20.437, b41]).
Theodore of Mopsuestia, In ep. ad Galatas (ed. H. B. Swete), 1.31.15.
Marius Victorinus (ep. Pauli ad Galatas (ed. A. Locher), ad 2.15-16: Ipsa enim fides sola iustificationem dat-et sanctificationem (For faith itself alone gives justification and sanctification); In ep. Pauli Ephesios (ed. A. Locher), ad 2.15: Sed sola fides in Christum nobis salus est (But only faith in Christ is salvation for us).
Augustine, De fide et operibus, 22.40 (CSEL 41.84-85): licet recte dici possit ad solam fidem pertinere dei mandata, si non mortua, sed viva illa intellegatur fides, quae per dilectionem operatur (Although it can be said that Gods commandments pertain to faith alone, if it is not dead [faith], but rather understood as that live faith, which works through love). Migne Latin Text: Venire quippe debet etiam illud in mentem, quod scriptum est, In hoc cognoscimus eum, si mandata ejus servemus. Qui dicit, Quia cognovi eum, et mandata ejus non servat, mendax est, et in hoc veritas non est (I Joan. II, 3, 4). Et ne quisquam existimet mandata ejus ad solam fidem pertinere: quanquam dicere hoc nullus est ausus, praesertim quia mandata dixit, quae ne multitudine cogitationem spargerent [Note: [Col. 0223] Sic Mss. Editi vero, cogitationes parerent.], In illis duobus tota Lex pendet et Prophetae (Matth. XXII, 40): licet recte dici possit ad solam fidem pertinere Dei mandata, si non mortua, sed viva illa intelligatur fides, quae per dilectionem operatur; tamen postea Joannes ipse aperuit quid diceret, cum ait: Hoc est mandatum ejus, ut credamus nomini Filii ejus Jesu Christi, et diligamns invicem (I Joan. III, 23) See De fide et operibus, Cap. XXII, §40, PL 40:223.
Source: Joseph A. Fitzmyer Romans, A New Translation with introduction and Commentary, The Anchor Bible Series (New York: Doubleday, 1993) 360-361.
Even some Catholic versions of the New Testament also translated Romans 3:28 as did Luther. The Nuremberg Bible (1483), allein durch den glauben and the Italian Bibles of Geneva (1476) and of Venice (1538) say per sola fede.
Seems Luther had good company in translation.
More likely, that the 'saints' were right, and the Trent theologians wrong. Trent's hacks couldn't hold a candle to the great Aquinas, could they? No wonder a Reformation was required, the latter day Catholics had ran from the saints' doctrine, to say nothing of the Apostles'.
Luther tried to return Catholics to the faith of the Apostles and her earlier saints, but they would not. The Vicar was getting terrible advice. Still they hold out against the Church's saints, most unseemly.
Do you accept this as inspired Scripture ?
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh. For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods. And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey. Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents. And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two. But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money. After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them. And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more. His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them. His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed: And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine. His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed: Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury. Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents. For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath. And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
"Many Bible-students have been struck by an apparent discrepancy between the letters of Paul and the present epistle, since it might appear that the doctrine of James conflicts with that taught with such emphasis by Paul concerning justification by faith alone. But there is no real conflict. Paul writes against the self-righteous man, who does not want to be justified and saved by the grace of God in Christ Jesus alone, but insists on good works as being necessary for obtaining salvation, James writes against the vain, foolish man, who trusts for salvation in a barren orthodoxy, imagining that a mere belief of the intellect and a mere profession of the mouth without any works is saving faith. "
Preach and teach the whole Counsel of God.
See my post #21. There are two types of good works. There is the type we generate from ourselves in an effort to gain the approval of God (and man) -and there is the type that we produce under the guidance of the Holy Spirit as a result of our faith and love for the Lord Jesus Christ.
Jesus gave hard criticism to the external performance of good works by the Pharisees in Matthew 23:27-28:
27 Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. 28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.”
I would separate the works as those of religious obligation, and those of inherent mercy, love, and justice which are spiritual in nature and contrary to the spirit of man except he be led by the Spirit of God. While the former may be appropriate they are not necessarily works of faith and, if not,
would not be partnered with salvific faith.
Saying “the Sinner’s Prayer” with Joel Osteen’s TV image could fall under either category. The Spirit of God knows what salvific faith is.