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Cardinal Kasper says Pope Francis will soon instruct souls to disobey Church
The Tenth Crusade ^ | 2/23/14 | The Tenth Crusade

Posted on 02/23/2014 3:29:36 PM PST by BlatherNaut

A few new developments on the Catholic divorce front.

First, we learn that Pope Francis hand-picked Kasper to persuade his see on substance.

But "it’s a question of how to apply [church teaching to] the concrete, difficult, complex situation."Francis tapped Kasper to open the meetings with an address that would set the stage for the talks. Kasper — a onetime sparring partner of another German cardinal, Joseph Ratzinger, who later became Benedict XVI — delivered a two-hour talk that centered on marriage and took up most of the morning’s session.

Since the Church instructs us to be obedient or lose salvation, it is reasonable to conclude Pope Francis brought in Kasper to persuade 'how to apply Church teaching' for the outcome of his instructions to disobey it.

Otherwise he would have scheduled the head of the CDF to school the see.

(Excerpt) Read more at throwthebumsoutin2010.blogspot.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events
KEYWORDS: kasper; popefrancis; sin
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Full title: "Cardinal Kasper says Pope Francis will soon instruct souls to disobey Church teaching and give sacrilegious Communion, pastorally."
1 posted on 02/23/2014 3:29:36 PM PST by BlatherNaut
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To: BlatherNaut

So, Kasper the unfriendly heretic is back in favor.

What the hell, usher in the Borgias.


2 posted on 02/23/2014 4:12:54 PM PST by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: BlatherNaut

Nobody is married in the church legitimately, and haven’t been for 1/2 a century at least.

Case in point: I was married to my one and only spouse 45 years ago. The Wedding Vows at the time were “love honer and cherish / love honer and obey”. The “obey” part was with your fingers crosses. The Church knew that... It renders the union non-binding as far as canon law is concerned.


3 posted on 02/23/2014 4:15:26 PM PST by babygene ( .)
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To: babygene

crosses - crossed


4 posted on 02/23/2014 4:18:00 PM PST by babygene ( .)
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To: dsc

“What the hell, usher in the Borgias.”

The Borgias were sinners, not heretics. Give me sinners over heretics any day.


5 posted on 02/23/2014 4:50:58 PM PST by vladimir998
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To: babygene

“The Church knew that... It renders the union non-binding as far as canon law is concerned.”

No, it doesn’t.


6 posted on 02/23/2014 4:52:19 PM PST by vladimir998
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To: vladimir998

“No, it doesn’t”

It certainly does... Since it sets almost everyone up for an automatic annulment.


7 posted on 02/23/2014 5:07:39 PM PST by babygene ( .)
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To: babygene

“It certainly does... Since it sets almost everyone up for an automatic annulment.”

That’s just it - it doesn’t. The only essential vows to a Catholic marriage’s validity are those about the very nature of marriage. Other vows are window dressing really. That has always been Catholic canon law. Consent is what counts.


8 posted on 02/23/2014 6:02:53 PM PST by vladimir998
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To: BlatherNaut

I still do not know what to make of this whole situation. It certainly wouldn’t surprise me if Francis and Kasper are up to no good though.


9 posted on 02/23/2014 6:45:21 PM PST by piusv
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To: vladimir998

“The Borgias were sinners, not heretics.”

Good point. Although, when the sin is murder, it’s hard to prefer it.


10 posted on 02/23/2014 6:48:24 PM PST by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: NYer; Salvation; BlatherNaut

Ok NY’er and Salvation explain this what does this mean??

Cardinal Kasper says Pope Francis will soon instruct souls to disobey Church teaching and give sacrilegious Communion, pastorally.”


11 posted on 02/23/2014 6:52:12 PM PST by restornu
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To: dsc

“Although, when the sin is murder, it’s hard to prefer it.”

No, not really. The body is mortal. The soul is eternal. As Aquinas noted long ago: heresy is worse than murder.


12 posted on 02/23/2014 7:05:36 PM PST by vladimir998
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To: BlatherNaut
Since the Church instructs us to be obedient or lose salvation, it is reasonable to conclude Pope Francis brought in Kasper to persuade 'how to apply Church teaching' for the outcome of his instructions to disobey it.

I don't buy it.

13 posted on 02/23/2014 7:14:10 PM PST by cloudmountain
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To: vladimir998
The Borgias were sinners, not heretics. Give me sinners over heretics any day.

Amen.

14 posted on 02/23/2014 7:15:01 PM PST by cloudmountain
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To: babygene

vladimir998 is correct. YOU are not.


15 posted on 02/23/2014 7:15:49 PM PST by cloudmountain
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To: vladimir998

Another good point. I retire bloody and bowed.


16 posted on 02/23/2014 7:18:23 PM PST by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: vladimir998
The Borgias were sinners, not heretics. Give me sinners over heretics any day.

Borgias are more your speed?

That Banquet of Chestnuts was really quite the event.

No wonder the Catholic church is in so much trouble.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Borgia

17 posted on 02/23/2014 7:20:26 PM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: metmom

Wow. Bring on Pope Caligula while we are at it. lol.

BTW, if the Pope says to disobey a church teaching, how is it disobeying the church since the Pope says its okay?

Disobeying God, yes.


18 posted on 02/23/2014 7:39:49 PM PST by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: BlatherNaut
Full title: "Cardinal Kasper says Pope Francis will soon instruct souls to disobey Church teaching and give sacrilegious Communion, pastorally."

How is this different than what goes on in the American dioceses today?

IB4TPWMA

19 posted on 02/23/2014 7:43:15 PM PST by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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Comment #20 Removed by Moderator

To: metmom
Especially during the reign of Alexander VI, they were suspected of many crimes, including adultery, simony, theft, bribery[citation needed] and murder (especially murder by arsenic poisoning)

but thank God they weren't heretics. :p

21 posted on 02/23/2014 7:47:47 PM PST by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: GeronL
Simony (pron. [ˈsaɪ.mə.ni] or [ˈsɪ.mə.ni]) is the act of selling church offices and roles.
22 posted on 02/23/2014 7:48:54 PM PST by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: GeronL

Hey, good (or bad) works don’t matter, if the Borgias accepted Christ as Savior that is all that matters. ;-)


23 posted on 02/23/2014 8:28:44 PM PST by informavoracious (Open your eyes, people!)
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To: informavoracious

lol


24 posted on 02/23/2014 8:39:03 PM PST by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: BlatherNaut

It’s not like it’s a trial balloon we can democratically reject. So until it happens, there’s no point speculating at it.


25 posted on 02/23/2014 8:59:01 PM PST by dangus
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To: metmom

You miss the point:

Sinners damn themselves; heretics damn thousands.


26 posted on 02/23/2014 9:01:49 PM PST by dangus
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To: metmom

Oh, and as Wikipedia points out, the Banquet of Chestnuts is likely mere slanderous fiction.


27 posted on 02/23/2014 9:04:20 PM PST by dangus
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To: restornu

I don’t believe it.


28 posted on 02/23/2014 10:24:44 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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Comment #29 Removed by Moderator

To: informavoracious; GeronL

Hey, good (or bad) works don’t matter, if the Borgias were good Catholics that is all that matters. ;-)

After all, Kennedy and Chavez *repented* at the end and got their Catholic funerals.


30 posted on 02/24/2014 3:58:28 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: dangus

Heretics don’t damn anyone.

They may teach what the Catholic church calls false teaching, but nobody is making anyone else believe it.

People choose to believe what they want. Nobody forces them to believe it.

And besides, doesn’t the CCC make exception for being invincibly ignorant? If they don’t know they’re being deceived and are sincere, that covers them, right?


31 posted on 02/24/2014 4:01:39 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: dangus

Maybe......

Maybe not.

But it is irrelevant.

That someone would choose THAT over *heresy*, speaks volumes.


32 posted on 02/24/2014 4:03:19 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: metmom

“Borgias are more your speed?”

Compared to heretics, yes. Jesus hung out with sinners all the time.

“No wonder the Catholic church is in so much trouble.....”

No wonder Protestantism is in so much heresy.


33 posted on 02/24/2014 4:44:56 AM PST by vladimir998
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To: metmom

And don’t forget this Borgia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Borgia


34 posted on 02/24/2014 4:45:59 AM PST by vladimir998
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To: Salvation
I don’t believe it.

Cardinal Kasper certainly believes it, and he's the one with the pope's ear and the pope's confidence (Pope Francis has referred to Kasper as a "superb theologian"). Why would Kasper, who has been loudly demanding change for years, be given such a prominent role if the pope's views on the subject were in opposition to his?

----------------

ROME, December 20, 2013 (LifeSiteNews.com) – Despite a recent strongly worded clarification from Rome, confusion is continuing to be stirred up over the Catholic Church’s practice of refusing Communion to those who are divorced and remarried. A prominent curial cardinal, and favourite of Pope Francis, has defied the Vatican’s doctrinal office, saying that he expects a change. Cardinal Walter Kasper has said bluntly, and in direct opposition to the head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF), that the rules will shortly be changed to allow divorced and remarried Catholics to be admitted to Holy Communion.

35 posted on 02/24/2014 5:06:56 AM PST by BlatherNaut
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To: metmom
That someone would choose THAT over *heresy*, speaks volumes.

I dunno metmom, which would you rather have, me or a serial adulterer who will parrot exactly what you believe, teaching your kids in Sunday School?

36 posted on 02/24/2014 5:08:15 AM PST by Legatus (Keep calm and carry on)
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To: BlatherNaut
http://www.lifesitenews.com/mobile/news/cardinal-kasper-says-church-will-soon-give-communion-to-divorced-remarried
37 posted on 02/24/2014 5:09:56 AM PST by BlatherNaut
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To: restornu
First, we learn that Pope Francis hand-picked Kasper to persuade his see on

substance.

NOW I understand what you are trying to do!!!

38 posted on 02/24/2014 9:19:40 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Legatus
I dunno metmom, which would you rather have, me or a serial adulterer who will parrot exactly what you believe, teaching your kids in Sunday School?

I hear that it's REALLY tricky to do it in parallel!

39 posted on 02/24/2014 9:20:55 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie; goat granny

Listen up; you non-white goats!

It's Cardinal Casper now!!!


40 posted on 02/24/2014 9:23:45 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: BlatherNaut; restornu; StormPrepper; teppe; Normandy
Since the Church instructs us to be obedient or lose salvation...

The LDS church instructs it's members to be obedient or lose out on spending Eternity with god the FATHER.

41 posted on 02/24/2014 9:25:50 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: babygene
The Wedding Vows at the time were “love honer and cherish / love honer and obey”. The “obey” part was with your fingers crosses. The Church knew that... It renders the union non-binding as far as canon law is concerned.

What are you talking about? "Obey" isn't a part of the traditional Catholic vows.

42 posted on 02/24/2014 9:31:18 AM PST by old and tired
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To: Elsie
Your a racist, I demand you get kicked off free republic for goat bigotry shame, shame shame, I am Mrs. Do Good sticking up for those poor brown and black goats held by someone named ElsieGG
43 posted on 02/24/2014 10:30:36 AM PST by goat granny (.)
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To: old and tired

“What are you talking about? “Obey” isn’t a part of the traditional Catholic vows.”

I can assure you it was used 45 years ago in the Catholic Church in Philadelphia. That’s the only time I’ve been married, so that’s my only reference point.


44 posted on 02/24/2014 10:47:36 AM PST by babygene ( .)
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To: babygene
I can assure you it was used 45 years ago in the Catholic Church in Philadelphia. That’s the only time I’ve been married, so that’s my only reference point.

All I can tell you is that 50 years ago at St. John's in Mananyunk my wife never promised to obey anybody.

45 posted on 02/24/2014 10:57:33 AM PST by old and tired
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To: old and tired

“All I can tell you is that 50 years ago at St. John’s in Mananyunk my wife never promised to obey anybody”

I’ve been to St. Johns. We were married in St. Dorothy’s in Drexel Hill. My parish was St. Matthew in Conshohocken.


46 posted on 02/24/2014 11:08:36 AM PST by babygene ( .)
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To: BlatherNaut

According to some blogger who is trying to foretell the future. No thanks.


47 posted on 02/24/2014 11:40:55 AM PST by Solson (The Voters stole the election! And the establishment wants it back.)
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To: babygene
My parish was St. Matthew in Conshohocken.

No kidding! I know it well. Not my parish, but I do live in a very nearby parish. It's a lovely church.

48 posted on 02/24/2014 11:50:11 AM PST by old and tired
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To: goat granny

Hear ye; hear ye!!




49 posted on 02/24/2014 12:41:15 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: vladimir998

Here’s what I think this is about:

There’s a whole industry that will teach you how to get an annulment, and many clergy and religious are active participants.

I think the bishops in annulment-rich nations, with USA #1, hate the fact that anyone who says the right words and who isn’t going to cause a scandal gets one. They just don’t know how to stop.

And, I suspect, that Rome agrees that there is no way to stop but that Rome would also like to stop the constant subornation of perjury that the staff of the annulment machine procures, every day.

So, I think the EO “sacramental economy” solution is the only way out. It may be that a quickie annulment process will be put in place for a few years.

But if tens of thousands of divorced and remarried Catholics (many of whom are heads of families with children) can be allowed to stop the lying (”I didn’t really intend matrimony the first time” is most popular), I think the bishops will see it as a win.


50 posted on 02/24/2014 12:44:36 PM PST by Jim Noble (When strong, avoid them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise.)
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