Skip to comments.Cardinal Kasper says Pope Francis will soon instruct souls to disobey Church
Posted on 02/23/2014 3:29:36 PM PST by BlatherNaut
A few new developments on the Catholic divorce front.
First, we learn that Pope Francis hand-picked Kasper to persuade his see on substance.
But "its a question of how to apply [church teaching to] the concrete, difficult, complex situation."Francis tapped Kasper to open the meetings with an address that would set the stage for the talks. Kasper a onetime sparring partner of another German cardinal, Joseph Ratzinger, who later became Benedict XVI delivered a two-hour talk that centered on marriage and took up most of the mornings session.
Since the Church instructs us to be obedient or lose salvation, it is reasonable to conclude Pope Francis brought in Kasper to persuade 'how to apply Church teaching' for the outcome of his instructions to disobey it.
Otherwise he would have scheduled the head of the CDF to school the see.
(Excerpt) Read more at throwthebumsoutin2010.blogspot.com ...
So, Kasper the unfriendly heretic is back in favor.
What the hell, usher in the Borgias.
Nobody is married in the church legitimately, and haven’t been for 1/2 a century at least.
Case in point: I was married to my one and only spouse 45 years ago. The Wedding Vows at the time were “love honer and cherish / love honer and obey”. The “obey” part was with your fingers crosses. The Church knew that... It renders the union non-binding as far as canon law is concerned.
crosses - crossed
“What the hell, usher in the Borgias.”
The Borgias were sinners, not heretics. Give me sinners over heretics any day.
“The Church knew that... It renders the union non-binding as far as canon law is concerned.”
No, it doesn’t.
“No, it doesnt”
It certainly does... Since it sets almost everyone up for an automatic annulment.
“It certainly does... Since it sets almost everyone up for an automatic annulment.”
That’s just it - it doesn’t. The only essential vows to a Catholic marriage’s validity are those about the very nature of marriage. Other vows are window dressing really. That has always been Catholic canon law. Consent is what counts.
I still do not know what to make of this whole situation. It certainly wouldn’t surprise me if Francis and Kasper are up to no good though.
“The Borgias were sinners, not heretics.”
Good point. Although, when the sin is murder, it’s hard to prefer it.
Ok NY’er and Salvation explain this what does this mean??
Cardinal Kasper says Pope Francis will soon instruct souls to disobey Church teaching and give sacrilegious Communion, pastorally.”
“Although, when the sin is murder, its hard to prefer it.”
No, not really. The body is mortal. The soul is eternal. As Aquinas noted long ago: heresy is worse than murder.
I don't buy it.
vladimir998 is correct. YOU are not.
Another good point. I retire bloody and bowed.
Borgias are more your speed?
That Banquet of Chestnuts was really quite the event.
No wonder the Catholic church is in so much trouble.....
Wow. Bring on Pope Caligula while we are at it. lol.
BTW, if the Pope says to disobey a church teaching, how is it disobeying the church since the Pope says its okay?
Disobeying God, yes.
How is this different than what goes on in the American dioceses today?
but thank God they weren't heretics. :p
Hey, good (or bad) works don’t matter, if the Borgias accepted Christ as Savior that is all that matters. ;-)
It’s not like it’s a trial balloon we can democratically reject. So until it happens, there’s no point speculating at it.
You miss the point:
Sinners damn themselves; heretics damn thousands.
Oh, and as Wikipedia points out, the Banquet of Chestnuts is likely mere slanderous fiction.
I don’t believe it.
Hey, good (or bad) works dont matter, if the Borgias were good Catholics that is all that matters. ;-)
After all, Kennedy and Chavez *repented* at the end and got their Catholic funerals.
Heretics don’t damn anyone.
They may teach what the Catholic church calls false teaching, but nobody is making anyone else believe it.
People choose to believe what they want. Nobody forces them to believe it.
And besides, doesn’t the CCC make exception for being invincibly ignorant? If they don’t know they’re being deceived and are sincere, that covers them, right?
But it is irrelevant.
That someone would choose THAT over *heresy*, speaks volumes.
“Borgias are more your speed?”
Compared to heretics, yes. Jesus hung out with sinners all the time.
“No wonder the Catholic church is in so much trouble.....”
No wonder Protestantism is in so much heresy.
And don’t forget this Borgia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Borgia
Cardinal Kasper certainly believes it, and he's the one with the pope's ear and the pope's confidence (Pope Francis has referred to Kasper as a "superb theologian"). Why would Kasper, who has been loudly demanding change for years, be given such a prominent role if the pope's views on the subject were in opposition to his?
ROME, December 20, 2013 (LifeSiteNews.com) Despite a recent strongly worded clarification from Rome, confusion is continuing to be stirred up over the Catholic Churchs practice of refusing Communion to those who are divorced and remarried. A prominent curial cardinal, and favourite of Pope Francis, has defied the Vaticans doctrinal office, saying that he expects a change. Cardinal Walter Kasper has said bluntly, and in direct opposition to the head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF), that the rules will shortly be changed to allow divorced and remarried Catholics to be admitted to Holy Communion.
I dunno metmom, which would you rather have, me or a serial adulterer who will parrot exactly what you believe, teaching your kids in Sunday School?
NOW I understand what you are trying to do!!!
I hear that it's REALLY tricky to do it in parallel!
The LDS church instructs it's members to be obedient or lose out on spending Eternity with god the FATHER.
What are you talking about? "Obey" isn't a part of the traditional Catholic vows.
“What are you talking about? “Obey” isn’t a part of the traditional Catholic vows.”
I can assure you it was used 45 years ago in the Catholic Church in Philadelphia. That’s the only time I’ve been married, so that’s my only reference point.
All I can tell you is that 50 years ago at St. John's in Mananyunk my wife never promised to obey anybody.
“All I can tell you is that 50 years ago at St. John’s in Mananyunk my wife never promised to obey anybody”
I’ve been to St. Johns. We were married in St. Dorothy’s in Drexel Hill. My parish was St. Matthew in Conshohocken.
According to some blogger who is trying to foretell the future. No thanks.
No kidding! I know it well. Not my parish, but I do live in a very nearby parish. It's a lovely church.
Here’s what I think this is about:
Theres a whole industry that will teach you how to get an annulment, and many clergy and religious are active participants.
I think the bishops in annulment-rich nations, with USA #1, hate the fact that anyone who says the right words and who isnt going to cause a scandal gets one. They just dont know how to stop.
And, I suspect, that Rome agrees that there is no way to stop but that Rome would also like to stop the constant subornation of perjury that the staff of the annulment machine procures, every day.
So, I think the EO sacramental economy solution is the only way out. It may be that a quickie annulment process will be put in place for a few years.
But if tens of thousands of divorced and remarried Catholics (many of whom are heads of families with children) can be allowed to stop the lying (I didnt really intend matrimony the first time is most popular), I think the bishops will see it as a win.