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Court Rules Public University May Discipline Professor for Religious Speech
Catholic Culture ^ | 2/25/14

Posted on 02/26/2014 10:42:52 AM PST by marshmallow

A federal district court has ruled that public universities may discipline professors for religious speech.

In 2009, a graduate student at the University of Southern Mississippi, referring to a law professor, complained that “sometimes during conversations with Dr. [Thomas] Payne, religion or Bible verses are usually brought up by him in some way. This makes me and others very uncomfortable … Dr. Payne made the statement that anyone who is not a Christian is going to hell.”

Subsequently, Payne alleged that the university “subjected him to various adverse employment actions … including, but not limited to, the denial of promotion, adverse annual performance reviews, the denial of permission to engage in outside employment, and the receipt of a notice that his contract would not be renewed,” according to the court decision.

(Excerpt) Read more at catholicculture.org ...


TOPICS: Current Events; General Discusssion; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: religiousliberty; religiouspersecution

1 posted on 02/26/2014 10:42:52 AM PST by marshmallow
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To: marshmallow

Punish college professors for religious speech in private conversations?


2 posted on 02/26/2014 10:44:02 AM PST by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: marshmallow

He told these people they were moving to Detroit?


3 posted on 02/26/2014 10:47:17 AM PST by 2banana (My common ground with terrorists - they want to die for islam and we want to kill them)
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To: marshmallow

While I disagree with the professor’s statement, he certainly should have the right to express his views in private conversations. It sounds like there is something wrong with this report?


4 posted on 02/26/2014 10:47:54 AM PST by faithhopecharity (" uri)
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To: GeronL
Punish college professors for religious speech in private conversations?

Not necessarily a private conversation:

a graduate student at the University of Southern Mississippi, referring to a law professor, complained that “sometimes during conversations with Dr. [Thomas] Payne, religion or Bible verses are usually brought up by him in some way. This makes me and others very uncomfortable
If he's having these conversations with his grad students, people whose futures he controls, then it would be similar to a manager inserting religious points into employer/employee conversations.
5 posted on 02/26/2014 10:48:38 AM PST by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: marshmallow

Then all the members of the “religion of peace” have to be fired.


6 posted on 02/26/2014 10:50:24 AM PST by I want the USA back (Media: completely irresponsible traitors. Complicit in the destruction of our country.)
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To: marshmallow

A Godless America will not survive, period. By Godless I do not mean Allah, or Mohammed.

If you don’t conduct your national affairs according to the bible, you’ll die by the scimitar.. My humble opinion.


7 posted on 02/26/2014 10:51:51 AM PST by Gaffer (Comprehensive Immigration Reform is just another name for Comprehensive Capitulation)
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To: marshmallow

The proliferation of godless Marxist speech emanating from our universities and public institutions makes me VERY uncomfortable.


8 posted on 02/26/2014 10:52:45 AM PST by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: marshmallow

Start quoting sura passages and shouting “all-ha be pressed” in the halls then.


9 posted on 02/26/2014 10:52:50 AM PST by Darksheare (Try my coffee, first one's free..... Even robots will kill for it!)
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To: marshmallow
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;”

So this professor violated the 2nd amendment how?

10 posted on 02/26/2014 10:56:09 AM PST by tractorman (I never miss a chance to tweak a liberal.)
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To: PapaBear3625

Professors assault religion every chance they get, but they can’t be religious?

wow


11 posted on 02/26/2014 10:56:34 AM PST by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: GeronL

I sense THAT particular “court” is in for some serious trouble!!

conversations are free speech everywhere in The USA!

if......a higher court will FIND for the reality of the Constitution..in this case


12 posted on 02/26/2014 10:57:28 AM PST by MeshugeMikey (how many times has obie fundamentaly transformed obamacare now?)
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To: MeshugeMikey

These days some have free speech and some don’t I guess


13 posted on 02/26/2014 10:58:31 AM PST by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: PapaBear3625

I would add to what I wrote: but of course if a law professor inserted into the conversation things about his gay sexuality, the fact that global warming is proven science and anyone who disagrees should be jailed, or gender oppression, then that would be “protected speech” regardless of how irrelevant it was to the subject that’s supposed to be under discussion, or how uncomfortable the grad student was made by the speech.


14 posted on 02/26/2014 10:58:52 AM PST by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: GeronL

See my #14


15 posted on 02/26/2014 11:00:18 AM PST by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: PapaBear3625

I see. OK, that clarifies it. There may well be problem then.
Thanks!


16 posted on 02/26/2014 11:03:30 AM PST by faithhopecharity (" uri)
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To: tractorman

“...violated the 2nd amendment how?...”

That would be the First Amendment, friend...

Second Amendment is your right to keep and bear arms.


17 posted on 02/26/2014 11:05:25 AM PST by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
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To: GeronL

There are, or there used to be college classes on “Comparative Religion”. Much to my Liberal ex-Girlfriends consternation. After all, her proudest moment was getting her employer to change their annual “secret Santa” to “secret snowman”.

Soo, is there something to compare Atheism too ?

Since FaceBook has now provided us with 58 flavors of gender identity, I imagine the College administrators will face their own challenges.


18 posted on 02/26/2014 11:11:46 AM PST by Zeneta (Thoughts in time and out of season.)
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To: marshmallow

The problem as I see it is the liberal establishment treats Christians as if the role of God in their lives is some sort of hobby to be trotted out only on Sundays and maybe at Christmas.

Religion, belief in God, is not a hobby...but a lifestyle choice that informs every aspect of our lives.

Quite frankly, it is the college that has violated the professors God given Right to religion and ...speech. Our very lives are a testimony to the saving power of Jesus Christ.


19 posted on 02/26/2014 11:21:05 AM PST by EBH ( The Day of the Patriot has arrived.)
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To: marshmallow

If you don’t believe in hell, then you shouldn’t be bothered by being told you’re going there.


20 posted on 02/26/2014 11:24:28 AM PST by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
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To: 2banana
He told these people they were moving to Detroit?

Not quite, but there IS a Hell, Michigan. Most folks find Detroit to be worse.
21 posted on 02/26/2014 11:28:39 AM PST by Dr. Sivana ("I'm a Contra" -- President Ronald Reagan)
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To: marshmallow; All
The article is vague (intentionally?), but please note the following.

The Founding Nanny States did not intend for our Bill of Rights freedoms to be absolute. In fact, using 1st Amendment as example, Thomas Jefferson had indicated that that the Founding States had made the 10th Amendment to clarify that the states had reserved government power to reasonably regulate our Bill of Rights freedoms uniquely to themselves, regardless that they had made the 1st Amendment to prohibit such powers to Congress entirely.

“3. Resolved that it is true as a general principle and is also expressly declared by one of the amendments to the constitution that ‘the powers not delegated to the US. by the constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively or to the people’: and that no power over the freedom of religion, freedom of speech, or freedom of the press being delegated to the US. by the constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, all lawful powers respecting the same did of right remain, & were reserved, to the states or the people: that thus was manifested their determination to retain to themselves the right of judging how far the licentiousness of speech and of the press may be abridged without lessening their useful freedom, and how far those abuses which cannot be separated from their use should be tolerated rather than the use be destroyed (emphasis added); …” —Thomas Jefferson, Kentucky Resolutions, 1798. http://tinyurl.com/oozoo http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/jeffken.asp
The Bill of Rights did not apply to the states (only to the feds) until the states ratified the 14th Amendment, obligating themselves to respect those rights. However ... John Bingham, the main author of Section 1 of 14A, had officially clarified that that the amendment did not take away states' rights.
“The adoption of the proposed amendment will take from the States no rights (emphasis added) that belong to the States.” —John Bingham, Appendix to the Congressional Globe. (See bottom half of first column)

No right (emphasis added) reserved by the Constitution to the States should be impaired…” —John Bingham, Appendix to the Congressional Globe. (See top half of 1st column)

“Do gentlemen say that by so legislating we would strike down the rights of the State? God forbid. I believe our dual system of government essential to our national existance.” —John Bingham, Appendix to the Congressional Globe. (See bottom half of third column)

So the states still have constitutional authority to reasonably limit our Bill of Rights protections which Jefferson had indicated. The courts must balance between 10A and 14A.

The problem concerting the professor in question is that he possibly rubbed people the wrong way concerning religious expression because article suggests that he thinks Bill of Rights freedoms are absolute.

22 posted on 02/26/2014 11:46:27 AM PST by Amendment10
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To: marshmallow
Dr. Payne made the statement that anyone who is not a Christian is going to hell.”

What is about unbelievers that gets them riled about being told they'll end up in a place they don't believe in?

Would they fire a professor for saying, "You'll end up in Oz?"

23 posted on 02/26/2014 12:07:47 PM PST by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: NFHale
With so many amendments under attack I guess I lost track.
Thanks FRiend.
24 posted on 02/26/2014 12:09:34 PM PST by tractorman (I never miss a chance to tweak a liberal.)
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To: tractorman

No prob.

At this point in time, it’s “What part of the Constitution are they trying to shred today?”

My question is: If the Constitution is the LAW of the land, and he keeps breaking the law, when are the “professionals” going to show up and arrest the Turdbucket and his little DOJ henchman and do their sworn duty... You know, “uphold, protect, and defend...” that sort of thing.

Just asking...


25 posted on 02/26/2014 12:12:44 PM PST by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
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To: PapaBear3625

Im not sure I understand this line of thinking. So, its OK for him to discuss anything as long as its not religion. Wouldnt those topics also control the hearers future?


26 posted on 02/26/2014 12:18:51 PM PST by 556x45
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To: NFHale

They’re probably still trying to find someone who hasn’t been blackmailed with NSA info.


27 posted on 02/26/2014 12:27:13 PM PST by tractorman (I never miss a chance to tweak a liberal.)
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To: tractorman

That’s a good point and probably truer than we’d ever want to believe...


28 posted on 02/26/2014 12:28:03 PM PST by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
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To: GeronL
There appears to be a discrepancy here. The article reports the judge's opinion as citing the principle that speech in an official capacity as a government employee, is not protected. If this was indeed a private conversation, say one to one over a beer, however, it hardly seems official. If it was a discussion during class time, that's different.
29 posted on 02/26/2014 1:47:00 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: hinckley buzzard

but how come anti-religious speech in the class is protected?


30 posted on 02/26/2014 1:51:23 PM PST by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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