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The Misunderstood Council: Six Myths about Vatican II (Catholic Caucus)
http://www.crisismagazine.com ^ | May 1, 1989 | Michael Warner

Posted on 03/09/2014 6:57:07 PM PDT by NKP_Vet

The second Vatican Council was the most important event of the twentieth century for Catholicism. It has also been the most misunderstood.

The Church has seen 21 ecumenical councils; Vatican II was the second to be held in Vatican City. An ecumenical council is a gathering of the bishops, cardinals, abbots, and prelates called by the pope to undertake a solemn exercise of the Church’s teaching authority. Papal cooperation is a sine qua non for the legitimacy of a council; without his assent its teachings have no binding force.

Pope Pius IX summoned the First Vatican Council, which met from December 1869 until shortly after the Italians invaded the Papal States and seized Rome in September 1870. Vatican I pronounced on the relation between faith and reason and also approved the constitution Pastor Aeternus, which defined the primacy and infallibility of the pope. Pius IX suspended the Council in October 1870, with several items on its agenda left unaddressed, perhaps the most important of which was the relation of the bishops to the pope. Thus Vatican I helped set in motion its sequel.

(Excerpt) Read more at crisismagazine.com ...


TOPICS: Apologetics; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: brokencaucus
The article is dated, but still relevant.
1 posted on 03/09/2014 6:57:07 PM PDT by NKP_Vet
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To: NKP_Vet

>>Most Catholics today seem to believe that Vatican II did away with the Latin Mass, but this belief is not supported by the Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy.<<

Of course it did not “do away” with the Latin Mass for that would have been apostasy. What it did do was suppress the Mass and drive those who insisted that the Mass be preserved out of the Church.

I don’t expect to be welcomed bak into the Church; I was told to leave in 1974, and no bishop since has made any effort to rescind it.


2 posted on 03/09/2014 7:34:30 PM PDT by NTHockey (Rules of engagement #1: Take no prisoners. And to the NSA trolls, FU)
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To: NTHockey

But have you asked?


3 posted on 03/09/2014 7:35:38 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

Comment #6 Removed by Moderator

To: Gluteus Maximus

You are aware that the seminaries are filled with straight young men who have to undergo a two day psyche exam, multiple interviews, interviews of friends, parents and recommending priests, aren’t you?

In fact, many seminaries are overflowing and have to put applicants off for a year.


7 posted on 03/09/2014 8:26:13 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

No, I am not aware of that. And frankly speaking I don’t believe it. A friend of mine showed me a picture published in her diocesan newspaper showing the new seminarians. They were all queer as three dollar bills. Sorry, man. You don’t have to actually talk to that tall thin kid mugging for the camera like a girl to know future Father Snowflake just loves show tunes. I see absolutely no evidence that anything has changed.


8 posted on 03/09/2014 8:29:37 PM PDT by Gluteus Maximus
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To: Gluteus Maximus
First of all you have the wrong gender for me. Click on my name to view my FR homepage.

Secondly....for your perusal -- and the proof of my previous post.

Spanish Olympic athlete to enter seminary after London games
Fr. Robert Barron to head Mundelein Seminary
Fr. [Robert] Barron Appointed Rector of Mundelein Seminary
Rise in US Seminary Numbers Brings 'Big Smile' to Pope's Face
U.S. seminary confronts abortion mill head-on through weekly prayer invasion
Traditional Catholicism Is Winning

Atlantis rises: US seminaries are changing
VIETNAM-More Than 1500 Seminarians and 80,000 Young Catechists: The Church's Future Looks Bright
The Logos in Seminary Formation and Teaching [Catholic Caucus]
Boom Time for Westminster Seminaries [UK]
Young Catholics Hear Call to Serve
US Dominican Province Welcomes Its Biggest Class of Novices in Decades
Of priests and possible priests to be
More twins (enter priesthood)
Cardinal Arinze - "Youth will embrace religious life with right role models"
Today's seminarians reflect growing trend
Number of Seminarians Increases - Please Decipher This!!!!
In Seminaries, New Ways for a New Generation
Seminary Springtime: Father Darrin Connall s Big Success
EVIDENCE GROWS OF DIRECT DISOBEDIENCE TO VATICAN IN MAJOR AMERICAN SEMINARIES
Pope to Church: Risky Seminarians Must Go
Priests Down, Seminarians Up
U.S. Priests and seminarians survey: more vocations in orthodox dioceses
Vatican Announces Surge in Seminaries during JPII Pontificate

Seminary Reform Needed in Wake of Sex Abuse Study ["the crisis in the Church is ... homosexuality"]
Homosexuals in seminaries? The latest.....
Priests 'In Orgy' at Seminary
Bishop urges gay ban in clergy; presses for overhaul in screening priests
A New Breed of Priest
AUSTRIAN SEMINARY SHUT DOWN FOR PROBE
Seminarians Show Support For Celibacy
556 Reasons for Hope [Seminarians Support Celibacy]
No Shortage of Vocations From Conservative Parishes
Oakland seminary housing sex offender priests
Phoenix bishop to helm Priestly Formation Committee [of USCCB]
Vatican Firms up Plans for U.S. Seminary Visitation in 2005
SIBLING VOCATIONS - Early calls led two sisters to same religious order
On the admission of homosexuals to seminaries
Catholic priests demand the right to marry
New Start For Austrian Seminary
Disciples of Pope John Paul (Faculty of Gregorian University Gripe About Piety of New Seminarians)
New Priests in U.S.: Older, and More >From Abroad (Survey Tracks Trends Since 1998)
U.S. seminarians welcome Pope Benedict XVI
Vatican review of seminaries to raise issue of gay priests

Some Decry Retirement Despite Priest Shortage
The Priesthood Ordination Class of 2005 “People would be surprised to know that I…”
(Catholic) Seminarians Double In 25 Years
Pope's death inspires would-be priests
Changes Add Up for Priesthood
Irish Bishops Apologize to Seminary Whistle-Blower
SIGNAL CALLING - UB quarterback foregoes family and career to train for priesthood in Rome
Pop Culture Heros Help Recruit Priests
Small Bible-belt (Catholic) diocese sees increase in seminarians
Dashing young priests turn heads at Youth Day
Vatican to Start U.S. Seminary Evaluations
Apostolic Seminary Visitation To Begin This Fall
U.S. Bishops to Begin Inspecting Seminaries
Prelate Says Gays Shouldn't Be Ordained
American overseeing Vatican evaluation of US seminaries says gays should not be ordained
Vatican to Check U.S. Seminaries on Gay Presence
POPE APPROVES BARRING GAY SEMINARIANS
Pope bans homosexuals from ordination as priests
Questions Arise Over Seminary Inspections
New Vatican Rule Said to Bar Gays as New Priests

New Vatican Rule Said to Bar Gays as New Priests (ABOUT TIME)
VATICAN: HOMOSEXUALS ARE NOT TO BE ORDAINED AS CATHOLIC PRIESTS
Homosexuals in the seminary; A Global Church in a Globalized World
Gay Men Ponder Impact of (Anti-Gay Clergy)Proposal by Vatican(Barf Alert)
Aquinas Seminary is First for Scrutiny
Vatican Begins Inspections At St. Louis Seminary (Rector: No homosexuality-pedophilia link)
The Sins of the Seminaries
Notre Dame Experts React to Potential Seminary Rules
Seminary Reviews Not Just About Homosexuality, Says Prelate
Jesuit Official Rips Expected Ban on Gays

Jesuit Official Rips Expected Ban on Gays
Jesuit official protesting expected Vatican ban on gay priests
A Catholic Moment of Truth
Gay Catholics Angry Over Seminary Searches
New Rules Affirm Pope Benedict's Stance Against Gays
New Report on Vatican Gay Priests Document Said to be Gay Lobby “Rumor Mill”
Gay men can be priests if celibate
Gay men can be Catholic priests if celibate-paper
No ban on gays expected in Vatican document; will advise 'prudential judgement'
African Cardinal Views the Vocation Shortage - With Full Seminaries, Ghana Shares Its Wealth

Keep the Ban
Today's seminarians: The Vatican survey
Lincoln diocese boasts highest number of priests to Catholics
Vatican Document on homosexuals in seminaries will be published tomorrow
Married Priests Aren’t the Answer (a seminarian states his view)
Vatican document restricts gays in priesthood: paper
Barring gays from priesthood not discrimination, say Italian bishops
Roman Women are Converts to Convents
Heads Up!! Zero Hour is 9am on December 29
Why I Thank God I Couldn’t Be A Priest
A look inside the Denver seminaries
Ordination Challenges: Out of the Seminary, Into the Fire
Vatican teams checking seminary effectiveness (in all, 229 US seminaries to be reviewed)
Seminaries Are Overflowing in Socialist Vietnam
Seminaries Full in Southern India (despite new anti-conversion law)
Ordination Class of 2006 - New Catholic Priests include twins, converts and some surprises
Twin ordinands, youngest of 13, credit parents for priestly vocations
Eleven new priests for Denver, largest ordination class in 40 years
Religious vocations can come from anyplace
Coordinator of U.S. seminary visitations expects report this fall

9 posted on 03/09/2014 8:43:03 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Gluteus Maximus
Sounds like a personal problem. Maybe it isn't the church. Maybe it's you.
10 posted on 03/09/2014 9:01:27 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: Gluteus Maximus

I know many seminarians, they do not set off my gaydar.


11 posted on 03/09/2014 9:33:32 PM PDT by pbear8 (the Lord is my light and my salvation)
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To: NKP_Vet

Interesting article

Two of the items that traditionalist Catholics have the biggest issue with (communion in hand, and alter girls) did not originate with Vatican II.


12 posted on 03/09/2014 9:36:12 PM PDT by kidd
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Comment #13 Removed by Moderator

To: NKP_Vet

I tell you one thing that isn’t a myth. VII was designed by the devil to do the devil’s work. What it actually says is almost immaterial. Look at the rotten fruits putrefying over the last several decades.


14 posted on 03/09/2014 9:51:10 PM PDT by steve86 (Some things aren't really true but you wouldn't be half surprised if they were.)
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To: kidd

VII created the protestantized mentality that made them possible (in modern times) .


15 posted on 03/09/2014 9:53:27 PM PDT by steve86 (Some things aren't really true but you wouldn't be half surprised if they were.)
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To: Gluteus Maximus

If you’re calling Salvation a man you really do have a problem.


16 posted on 03/09/2014 9:54:39 PM PDT by steve86 (Some things aren't really true but you wouldn't be half surprised if they were.)
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To: steve86

LOL!


17 posted on 03/09/2014 9:55:46 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: kidd

Right you are. I’ve been saying it for years.


18 posted on 03/09/2014 9:56:57 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: steve86

http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Vatican-II-at-50,-a-gift-from-God-misunderstood-by-conservatives-and-progressives-24510.html

Vatican II at 50, a gift from God misunderstood by conservatives and progressives

A direct participant in the Council highlights the positive work of the ecumenical conference in boosting the Church’s mission to the world. Traditionalist and progressive interpretations that developed after the event do not weaken its value and importance for today.


19 posted on 03/09/2014 10:23:14 PM PDT by NKP_Vet ("I got a good Christin' raisin', an 8th grade education, ain't no need ya'll treatin' me this way")
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To: NKP_Vet

Look at the rotten fruits. God doesn’t send gift packages with rotten fruit.


20 posted on 03/09/2014 10:32:02 PM PDT by steve86 (Some things aren't really true but you wouldn't be half surprised if they were.)
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To: Gluteus Maximus

“I suspect that Vatican II had a great deal to do with this.”

And the KGB. They really were everything the hippies thought the CIA was.


21 posted on 03/09/2014 10:53:03 PM PDT by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: NKP_Vet; Religion Moderator
Protestant denominations have a higher percentage sexual abuse than the Catholic Church.

Why are you trying to deflect guilt onto "Protestants" on a "Catholic Caucus" thread? This designation is supposed to be free of this kind of stuff because it disallows those who aren't in your caucus to comment and YOU were the one who posted it that way!

22 posted on 03/09/2014 11:10:55 PM PDT by boatbums (Simul justis et peccator.)
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To: steve86; Religion Moderator
VII created the protestantized mentality that made them possible (in modern times) .

Stop trying to blame "Protestants" for your religion's failures. This is supposed to be a Catholic Caucus thread which means you can't make comments about those not in your caucus since they aren't "allowed" to post to it.

23 posted on 03/09/2014 11:14:11 PM PDT by boatbums (Simul justis et peccator.)
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To: boatbums
which means you can't make comments about those not in your caucus since they aren't "allowed" to post to it.

I didn't comment about you or any other Protestant.

24 posted on 03/09/2014 11:20:19 PM PDT by steve86 (Some things aren't really true but you wouldn't be half surprised if they were.)
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Comment #25 Removed by Moderator

To: boatbums

No, I’m not blaming anything on any individual Protestant, least of all you.

The problem is Catholics who act like Protestants.


26 posted on 03/10/2014 12:05:43 AM PDT by steve86 (Some things aren't really true but you wouldn't be half surprised if they were.)
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Comment #27 Removed by Moderator

To: boatbums

What do you do — stay up late at night fishing to get your feelings hurt?


28 posted on 03/10/2014 12:11:24 AM PDT by steve86 (Some things aren't really true but you wouldn't be half surprised if they were.)
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To: Salvation

Yes.


29 posted on 03/10/2014 12:39:32 AM PDT by NTHockey (Rules of engagement #1: Take no prisoners. And to the NSA trolls, FU)
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