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Cardinal Dolan says "Bravo!"
rorate-caeli.blogspot.com ^

Posted on 03/10/2014 3:56:37 PM PDT by piusv

"Who am I to judge?" makes a triumphant entry in the American subset of the College of Cardinals, in an interview granted to the highest-rated political debate program on US television, to be broadcast tomorrow:

Cardinal Timothy Dolan of New York praised University of Missouri football star Michael Sam for coming out as gay, saying he would not judge the athlete for his sexual orientation. "Good for him," Dolan said in an interview with NBC's "Meet the Press" airing Sunday.

"I would have no sense of judgment on him," Dolan continued. "God bless ya. I don't think, look, the same Bible that tells us, that teaches us well about the virtues of chastity and the virtue of fidelity and marriage also tells us not to judge people. So I would say, 'Bravo.'" [Source]

OK, then. Naturally, the Cardinal did not have to say anything at all regarding a specific individual, even if asked. But silence and discretion are one thing, explicitly refusing moral discernment is another, and raising such refusal to the status of "good" and "bravo" is quite noteworthy for a Prince of the Church, because it is in itself a moral judgment, a positive moral judgment.

It is quite easy to see that no moral debate in which the Catholic Church takes part, of any kind and on any level, can ever anymore advance even one inch if the parameters become simply an isolated reading of "not judging" - and much less if "not judging" is elevated to the positive judgment of "good" and "bravo." Politicians quote a pontiff when casting immoral votes, and what can the Church say, from now on, on any legal matter (that presupposes a moral order)? It can always be used to stop any social debate. What can poor pastors and vicars say regarding any sin, even personally to a parishioner, when the isolated presentation of "no sense of judgment" becomes normative? Or even regarding, for instance, an inclination that our judgmental Catechism of the Catholic Church defines as "objectively disordered" (regardless of the practice or not of the "intrinsically disordered" acts attached to it)?

And if you do not like this post, who are you to judge us?...

I checked around for a more "acceptable" source here (because I know how some balk at this one), but could not find one. I wonder why some of the mainstream Catholic blogs/news reporters haven't reported on this.


TOPICS: Catholic; Moral Issues; Religion & Politics; Theology
KEYWORDS:

1 posted on 03/10/2014 3:56:37 PM PDT by piusv
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To: BlatherNaut; ebb tide

ping


2 posted on 03/10/2014 3:57:09 PM PDT by piusv
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To: piusv

Can’t lose that NY Catholic money. Gotta show “compassion” to keep the plate full on Sunday.


3 posted on 03/10/2014 4:04:07 PM PDT by raybbr (Obamacare needs a death panel.)
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To: piusv
Meet the Press Transcript.

It's just as bad in print as it is on the screen.

4 posted on 03/10/2014 4:04:35 PM PDT by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good -- Leo XIII)
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To: piusv
"I would have no sense of judgment on him," Dolan continued. "God bless ya. I don't think, look, the same Bible that tells us, that teaches us well about the virtues of chastity and the virtue of fidelity and marriage also tells us not to judge people. So I would say, 'Bravo.'

Ok, then: Bravo Hitler, bravo Stalin, bravo Chairman Mao, bravo Ted Bundy, bravo Jack the Ripper. After all, who am I to judge?
5 posted on 03/10/2014 4:07:03 PM PDT by Steve_Seattle
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To: piusv
In addition to this nonsense, the Catholic Church is also one of the principal advocates for Amnesty and Open Borders.

Are there any good Catholics in the house that can explain that to this Confirmed Alter Boy?

Criticize me if you will for fading from the Church, but how could I not?

6 posted on 03/10/2014 4:08:59 PM PDT by Mariner (uely)
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Comment #7 Removed by Moderator

To: Mariner

Do not leave the Church. Learn what is authentic Church teaching and do not ever let a priest or Bishop scandalize you out.

Out and proud homosexuals should have their actions judged and developing children kept away from the example of the homosexual lifestyle.

Shame on our prelates who fail to judge out and proud homsexual behaviors. Hate the sin love the sinner.


8 posted on 03/10/2014 4:34:46 PM PDT by amihow
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To: piusv

Sad, many have been brainwashed by political correctness and cannot face the truth. The Bible judges perverse actions, yes and does forgive, but also says go and sin no more.


9 posted on 03/10/2014 4:44:18 PM PDT by mulligan (I)
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To: piusv

I’m so sick of being embarrassed by my Church and national leaders. Where is that picture of Patrick Stewart doing the faceplant?


10 posted on 03/10/2014 5:28:11 PM PDT by married21 ( As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.)
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To: married21
Where is that picture of Patrick Stewart doing the faceplant?

Well, this is a thread about the Church, so perhaps these would be more appropriate.

But, if you insist upon Patrick Stewart:


11 posted on 03/10/2014 5:50:32 PM PDT by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good -- Leo XIII)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Triple :o(

No, 40x :o(

And, to think, according to the SRM, he's a "conservative" bishop.

12 posted on 03/10/2014 5:51:20 PM PDT by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good -- Leo XIII)
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To: markomalley

What is SRM?


13 posted on 03/10/2014 6:01:36 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (USCCB Delenda Est.)
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To: piusv

So if he had “come out” as a necrophile, would Dolan have likewise exclaimed, “Bravo!”? He is obviously emulating Pope Francis’ refusal to judge. One has to wonder exactly where these ecclesiastical non-judgementalists draw the line.

Dolan should have kept his mouth shut, but since he chose to comment, he should have reiterated Church teaching and said he’d pray for the individual.

If I lived in his archdiocese, I wouldn’t give him a dime.


14 posted on 03/10/2014 6:02:47 PM PDT by BlatherNaut
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To: markomalley

I totally LOLed at those pics


15 posted on 03/10/2014 6:03:23 PM PDT by piusv
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Comment #16 Removed by Moderator

To: Mrs. Don-o

State-Run Media


17 posted on 03/10/2014 7:17:58 PM PDT by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good -- Leo XIII)
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To: piusv

Dolan is a huge disappointment. His hankering to be accepted as one of the “cool kids” by the social elites has reached the point of obsession.


18 posted on 03/10/2014 7:42:26 PM PDT by marshmallow
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To: Steve_Seattle
"I would have no sense of judgment on him," Dolan continued. "God bless ya. I don't think, look, the same Bible that tells us, that teaches us well about the virtues of chastity and the virtue of fidelity and marriage also tells us not to judge people. So I would say, 'Bravo.'

I don't know if Cardinal Dolan is taking the position that Michael Sam is celibate and has a homosexual disorder as a temptation, is a believer who is actively sinning, or is an unbeliever whom he hopes will repent and come to faith. 1 Corinthians 5 would certainly apply if he were asserting he is a Christian. In any case, this is not an issue which should not be judged.

  1. It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
  2. And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
  3. For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
  4. In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
  5. To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
  6. Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
  7. Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
  8. I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
  9. Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
  10. But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
  11. For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
  12. But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

and 1 Corinthians 6

  1. Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
  2. Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
  3. Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
  4. If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
  5. I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

There are no Cardinals in the Scriptures, but that is not my main objection. The quotes of Cardinal Dolan, if accurate, bring disrepute on the Catholic Church and is unscriptural.

19 posted on 03/10/2014 8:10:22 PM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began)
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To: markomalley
Catholic Culture: Cardinal Dolan: Pope wants to understand-- not endorse-- civil-union proposals

Cardinal Dolan: Pope wants to understand-- not endorse-- civil-union proposals

 

CWN - March 10, 2014

In a television interview aired March 9, New York’s Cardinal Timothy Dolan said that Pope Francis wants the Church to understand the campaign for legal recognition of same-sex unions.

Appearing on the NBC program “Meet the Press,” Cardinal Dolan said that in a recent Italian interview, Pope Francis was not indicating that the Church would favor civil-union proposals. “It wasn’t as if he came out and approved them,” the cardinal said. “He said, ‘Rather than quickly condemn them, let’s just ask the questions as to why that has appealed to certain people.’”

A spokesman for the Holy See, Father Thomas Rosica, agreed, saying: “The Pope did not choose to enter into debates about the delicate matter of gay civil unions.” In an interview that appeared last week in Corriere della Sera,” when he was questioned about civil unions, the Pope replied: “You have to see the variety of cases and evaluate them in their variety.”

During his “Meet the Press” appearance, Cardinal Dolan said that he “would have no sense of judgment” about Michael Sam, the aspiring professional football player who has said that he is homosexual. Cardinal Dolan observed that “the same Bible that tells us that teaches us well about the virtues of chastity and the virtue of fidelity and marriage also tells us not to judge people.” He concluded: “So I would say, Bravo.”


20 posted on 03/10/2014 8:49:18 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: marshmallow

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3131741/posts?page=20#20


21 posted on 03/10/2014 8:49:57 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: af_vet_1981

A well measured post. However I don’t think Sam was coming out to confess his sin but to proclaim it proudly. Proudly to inform us Sam sees his homosexual life as “good” and “healthy.” To folks like us basically Sam has “self sanctified” his sin. At the least Dolan should have quoted Isaiah 5:20. Or at least give the Church’s stance on homosexuality.

The usual “love the sinner, hate the sin” meme is becoming sickening. We love the sinner by presenting the Gospel which is the antidote for the sin that enslaves them.


22 posted on 03/10/2014 9:06:56 PM PDT by redleghunter
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To: markomalley

Thanks. That was like a whole bouquet of faceplants!


23 posted on 03/10/2014 9:25:59 PM PDT by married21 ( As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.)
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To: markomalley

Oh. O.K. I’ve taken to calling them the EneMedia. :o/


24 posted on 03/11/2014 3:05:02 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o
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To: piusv

Let’s not be too tough on the Cardinal here. He gets real judgemental and stuff, they are liable not to invite him to the next Al Smith Dinner where he likes to yuk it up with all his pro-abortion Democrat buds.


25 posted on 03/11/2014 3:48:18 AM PDT by Eric Pode of Croydon
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To: amihow

Don’t leave the church! Continue to give money that supports this sin! Continue to be exposed to this sin.

Put a frog un a pot of boiling water, turn on the burner and slowly raise the temp. The frog won’t even know he’s being cooked.


26 posted on 03/11/2014 4:00:08 AM PDT by Gamecock
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To: piusv

Cardinal Dolan will say anything to please the NY Times and the rest of the media.His philosophy is go along to get along.


27 posted on 03/11/2014 5:24:02 AM PDT by ardara
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To: amihow; Mariner

The original story was not true.

Read this.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/3131741/posts?page=20#20


28 posted on 03/11/2014 5:33:42 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: married21

Saw Dolan on TV yesterday at a news conference with socialist
DeBlasio. Of course he was shucking and jiving and acting like he was at a St. Patty’s Day party. I have never cared for Dolan’s style and never will. Too much of a back-slapping politician for me.


29 posted on 03/11/2014 6:36:24 AM PDT by NKP_Vet ("I got a good Christin' raisin', an 8th grade education, ain't no need ya'll treatin' me this way")
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To: Salvation

The original story is true. I saw the actual interview on TV and the article is spot on.


30 posted on 03/11/2014 9:08:14 AM PDT by ebb tide
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To: Salvation; ebb tide

Exactly what wasn’t true about it?


31 posted on 03/12/2014 4:16:56 AM PDT by piusv
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