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Supposed ‘Christian’ Dad Claims Gay Son is No Sinner
The Christian Diarist ^ | March 16, 2013 | JP

Posted on 03/16/2014 3:03:11 PM PDT by CHRISTIAN DIARIST

Chris has a gay son. He neglected to mention that when I met him at a business event the week before last, when we talked a little politics, when he invited me to join him and his buds for their weekly golf game.

All was amicable on the golf course. As it turned out, two of the guys were fellow conservatives. And two others happened to be members of my church.

But things got twisted when our two foursomes sat down for post-round libations and conversation. That’s because Chris, a social liberal, an Obama-loving Democrat, insisted on talking politics.

And particularly about homosexual “rights.”

He made the pseudo-scientific claim that homosexuality was an “immutable” trait, like race or gender. And the church-going Presbyterian claimed there is no Biblical basis for declaring homosexuality a sin.

So I challenged him on both claims. And my fellow conservatives, my fellow church members backed me.

Having lost the debate he started, my golf host stood up and angrily stalked out of the clubhouse, leaving the other seven of us sitting there. That’s when one of the guys confided to me that Chris has a gay son.

His was the typical reaction by social liberals who have a family member or friend or business associate or even acquaintance who is gay.

The social libs not only delude themselves that homosexuality is perfectly “normal,” not only deceive themselves that homosexuality is perfectly acceptable to God, they also insist that those of us who are social conservatives, who are Bible-believing Christ followers, agree with them.

Otherwise, they slander us as “homophobes.”

But the word of God declares, “Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!”

Indeed, those of us who oppose homosexuality on Biblical grounds are very much like Lot, who lived in the ancient city of Sodom, who was visited by two angels of the Lord, whose home was surrounded by the men of the city who wanted to have to have their way, sexually, with his visitors.

“Please, my brethren,” Lot pleaded, “do not do so wickedly! See now, I have two daughters who have not known a man; please, let me bring them out to you, and you may do to them as you wish.”

Lot’s gay neighbors were offended. “He keeps acting as a judge,” they murmured among themselves.

They deluded themselves that evil was good, that darkness was light. Just like Chris, who hosted me for golf, who insisted his gay son is “normal;” that his son’s sexual preference for men was okay by God.

Well, I’ve never met Chris’ boy. But I think I actually love him more than his dad does. Because I don’t want him to befall the fate of the homosexuals of Sodom, on whom God rained brimstone and fire. They all died in their unrepentant sin and will spend eternity separated from God.

Indeed, even if I accepted the dubious, politically-motivated science that there is a supposed “gay gene,” that homosexuality is a supposed “immutable” human trait, I would continue to believe homosexuality a sin.

And to those attracted to men, like Chris’ son, I would urge them to “crucify the flesh” with its passions and lusts; to present their bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God. And I would encourage that they pray that God lead them not into temptation, but deliver them from their desire for “strange flesh.”

Those of us who are social conservatives, who are Christ followers, are not “homophobes.” We do not hate gays.

We speak the truth to them – in love – that homosexuality was and is and always will be a sin. And that the Bible warns that homosexuals shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

We also encourage them that the Lord desires that none would perish, but that all should come to repentance. And that if those who are gay confess their sins – rather than denying that homosexuality in a sin in the eyes of God – He is faithful and just to forgive them and cleanse them of all unrighteousness.


TOPICS: General Discusssion; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: bible; denialaintariver; gayrights; godgap; homosexualagenda; homosexuality; libertarian; pseudoscience; religiousleft; waronreligion
We are all, everyone, sinners. But we will be separated, one from another, left and right. Those on the right, who repent their sins, who receive the Lord's forgiveness, will inherit the Kingdom. But those on the left, who abide unrepentently in their sin (like homosexuality), who die unforgiven of their unrepented sin, shall suffer eternal damnation.
1 posted on 03/16/2014 3:03:11 PM PDT by CHRISTIAN DIARIST
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST
He made the pseudo-scientific claim that homosexuality was an “immutable” trait, like race or gender

Attraction between men and women is natural, but that doesn't mean that cohabitation or "the hookup culture" aren't sinful.

2 posted on 03/16/2014 3:06:45 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (The Texas judge's decision was to pave the way for same sex divorce for two Massachusetts women.)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

Chris is no Christian. In fact, he’s the antithesis of Christian.


3 posted on 03/16/2014 3:07:55 PM PDT by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

True homophobes are spineless and weak minded individuals who support the homosexual agenda from fear of suffering reprisals if they don’t.


4 posted on 03/16/2014 3:14:39 PM PDT by Berlin_Freeper
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To: Berlin_Freeper

Sad that this man’s son was indoctrinated to be a homo.
Bet the kid went to pulbik skool.


5 posted on 03/16/2014 3:23:19 PM PDT by bicyclerepair (The zombies here elected alcee hastings. TERM LIMITS ... TERM LIMITES)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

i’ve lost people as friends because they have gay relatives and they did the same thing this guy did.


6 posted on 03/16/2014 3:25:43 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

“Chris has a gay son. He neglected to mention that when I met him at a business event the week before last...”

How does one trust a businessman after he neglects to mention such facts upon meeting him?


7 posted on 03/16/2014 3:29:26 PM PDT by Oliviaforever
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To: Secret Agent Man

My in-laws are very much like this b/c of their gay son. He’s a good guy, but I’ll never bow to their “it’s all good” whim so they can feel better about themselves.


8 posted on 03/16/2014 3:34:41 PM PDT by Future Snake Eater (CrossFit.com)
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To: Future Snake Eater

what is sad is they don’t love him enough to be honest with him to save his soul.

it’s like we’ll feed you and tell you good things in this life, but we don’t care about you enough to make sure your future in eternity is with Christ.

They will suffer blame for his loss as well.


9 posted on 03/16/2014 3:38:27 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

People can struggle with homosexuality and still be a follower of Christ. But they have to recognize that there struggle with it is a struggle with SIN.

I sometimes have trouble with temper....sinful explosions of anger, as opposed to explosions of righteous anger. I am working, by the grace of God, to stop these behaviors.

So this fellow who thinks sodomy is cool with God is dead wrong.


10 posted on 03/16/2014 3:39:44 PM PDT by SoFloFreeper
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To: Oliviaforever

I hope you’re being sarcastic.


11 posted on 03/16/2014 3:39:44 PM PDT by workerbee (The President of the United States is DOMESTIC ENEMY #1!)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

Not to bust his bubble but the “immutable” characteristic of human flesh is a sin.

So, that dog don’t hunt, dad.


12 posted on 03/16/2014 3:40:12 PM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: Secret Agent Man
what is sad is they don’t love him enough to be honest with him to save his soul.

You're absolutely right, but I'm sure you also know that such people see that kind of honesty as "hate." They'd rather deny any possible eternal consequences (which they say they don't believe will happen because he's a good person) in order to spare his feelings in this life. Sad.

13 posted on 03/16/2014 3:45:21 PM PDT by Future Snake Eater (CrossFit.com)
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To: Future Snake Eater

yup, had the venom tossed at me.


14 posted on 03/16/2014 3:48:43 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: SoFloFreeper

The real problem is accepting that people who engage in homosexual acts are a different “sort” of human being. Left to their own devises. human being “act out” sexually in a myriad different ways. Men have had sex with everything from the family pooch to sex toys. Do we have to accept that having sex with an ewe is something genetically determined?


15 posted on 03/16/2014 3:51:51 PM PDT by RobbyS (quotes)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

I think you need to tackle the issue with intellectual honesty. You cannot defeat the emotional argument of someone with a personal relation to the issue, unless you are very well versed in the subject, in modern science as well as classical theology and philosophy of law and ethics.

I think the main problem is this belief that sodomy is not a sin like adultery and theft. People largely do still find adultery to be wrong. Adulterers are shamed in most circles. But the environment we’re in right now speaks of ‘homosexuals’ as an exalted class who are actually detached from the acts they perform. I have absolute sympathy for someone who has a child be brainwashed into thinking same-sex attraction is immutable and unchanging (contrary to most scholarship on the subject). When its your flesh and blood, tangled in emotional confusion, I can see how fathers are swayed, but you have to point out that homosexuality does not make people happy. Its happy for the rich queers in Hollywood who get their T.V. shows, or the couples pumped with millions of dollars to overturn state laws, but who is the average homosexual? He’s likely to be alcoholic, on drugs, being physically abused if in a relationship, contemplating suicide, suffering from other psychological maladies. It is not a fun life. It’s a life without purpose in terms of continuing genetic code.

What would I do if my son told me he was feeling these things? That’s a question often posed by libs (although the chances as a percentage are very remote). I would go through scripture with him, show him God’s plan for human sexuality and wellbeing. I would share with him the statistics and facts surrounding the lifestyle and what it means. I would share with him the fact that many more people than are actually homosexual go through a phase of homosexuality which fades in time. I would make clear to him that I cannot and never would affirm sodomy or any illicit sexual activities, because of my sincere belief in God’s law. I could not attend any sham marriage or allow his ‘partners’ into my house.

But I would preface this entirely with the fact that he would always be welcome. That I love him no matter what he does. I’d love him if he were a junkie, a drunk, a convict, even a murderer. Because God has also told me I should love even my enemies, how could I hate my son? Ultimately, in a free society, he will make his choices. I can only offer my advice, and that is that sodomy is not healthy, moral, or sensible.


16 posted on 03/16/2014 3:54:27 PM PDT by Viennacon
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

Kind’a like some dude who proclaims, “I am not gay, but my boyfriend is.” Whatever. This planet makes very very little sense any longer.


17 posted on 03/16/2014 4:27:49 PM PDT by inpajamas (http://outskirtspress.com/ONE)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

I feel sorry for the guy. How hard would it be to have a child that you know for sure if they don’t change their ways they are probably bound for hell. IT would be easy to buy into the Liberal BS that being gay is not a choice to sooth your troubled soul. Having smooth words spoken to you does not change the truth and will not save his son. Confronting reality and the truth about yourself is how you find true peace in God!


18 posted on 03/16/2014 4:31:45 PM PDT by melsec (Once a Jolly Swagman camped by a Billabong.)
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To: Viennacon

uhhh... I’m sure you didn’t intend to open this can of worms, but what is your definition of sodomy relative to heterosexual couples (i.e. man and wife)?

And I’m not trying to be a wise guy. But the definition varies.


19 posted on 03/16/2014 4:37:42 PM PDT by bigdaddy45
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST
But those on the left, who abide unrepentently in their sin (like homosexuality), who die unforgiven of their unrepented sin, shall suffer eternal damnation.

And that is the worst thing that could ever happen to someone, in all of creation. God will NEVER think they have suffered enough, to be let out of Hell. What a scary thought, but no one needs to go there.

20 posted on 03/16/2014 4:40:23 PM PDT by Mark17 (Chicago Blackhawks: Stanley Cup champions 2010, 2013. Vietnam Vet 70-71 Msgt US Air Force, retired)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

Paul in 1 Cor made a distinction between sexual sin and all other sins because sexual sins are sins against our own body. But I don’t believe God views my selfishness, or pride or judgementalism - sins I commit day in and day out as “better” than homosexual sin. Find me a sinner that Jesus was cruel to or condemning of - the tax collectors were viewed in that day as lower than homosexuals of today. The Good Samaritan parable if told to the audience posting on this story would have been the Good Homosexual! (stealing that from Dallas Willard - The Divine Conspiracy). The only audience he wagged his finger at were the religious leaders who seemed to be obsessed with making people feel crappy about their relationship with God. Jesus’ example challenges us to balance grace and truth the way he did. He never promised it would be easy. Or popular.


21 posted on 03/16/2014 4:42:09 PM PDT by H.Bowman
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

The same thing happened at our idiotic lib parish 2 years ago. The sermon was about homos and the priest sat down while the “guest lecturer” was a parent with a gay child during the sermon.

Basically...it was a lecture. A lecture that we, the parish members were monsters’ for not accepting the homo lifestyle. A couple of members just stood up and went out for a bit to cool down. I had a smoke. When he finally shut up, we went back in. I think he got the message. We weren’t going to listen to a lecture, we wanted a sermon about the God’s word and not some parent telling us to accept some abomination lifestyle.


22 posted on 03/16/2014 4:52:42 PM PDT by max americana (fired liberals in our company last election, and I laughed while they cried (true story))
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To: workerbee
I would not expect such personal information revealed from someone selling me a tank of gas, but would expect that information revealed prior to consummating a long term business deal.
23 posted on 03/16/2014 4:55:24 PM PDT by Oliviaforever
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST
My view....cut Chris some slack. He loves his child. Dick Cheney loves his lesbian daughter. In this life sometimes you are deal cards in the hand of life that are hard to play and will weigh on your soul and test your character and ability to love.

I view the folks who would tar & feather Chris as being the “unchristian.” I seem to remember a phrase, “I can hate the sin, but love the sinner.”

24 posted on 03/16/2014 4:56:51 PM PDT by Robert357 (D.Rather "Hoist with his own petard!" www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1223916/posts)
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To: bigdaddy45

Oh, that’s okay. I understand there are different definitions of the word. You only have to look at the various sodomy laws around the world, all prohibiting slightly different things.

The word obviously has its origins in the city of Sodom, and though it has taken on many definitions since its inception, I think we can simply define it as ‘the sins of Sodom’, which are commonly recognized as arrogance, inhospitality, selfishness, and sexual immorality (referred to as “abominations”). Now, from there, I think we can come to the conclusion that sodomy could apply to any number of sexually immoral activities, with homosexual sex being the most obvious, as it is listed in Leviticus and is referenced when the mob turns up at Lot’s house.
When it comes to what heterosexual married couples are allowed to do within the bonds of marriage, I think that’s a much more murky debate between theologians and I don’t want to get into which sexual acts are frowned upon by God as I am not a particular expert in that field, though in general I think some Christians do have a habit of making up restrictions that are not biblical to justify misplaced guilt.

But we are talking about the city of Sodom, and the illicit sexual activity we see referenced is indeed homosexual, so I think it is okay to refer to sodomy as a general rule, being defined as sex between members of the same gender. Though I would not argue if someone accused a miserly person of committing sodomy, since that was one of the sins of Sodom, disregard for the poor.


25 posted on 03/16/2014 5:27:37 PM PDT by Viennacon
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To: Oliviaforever

why would he?


26 posted on 03/16/2014 5:45:36 PM PDT by DooDahhhh
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To: Viennacon

Amen


27 posted on 03/16/2014 5:47:48 PM PDT by DooDahhhh
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To: Berlin_Freeper

Nope


28 posted on 03/16/2014 5:48:32 PM PDT by DooDahhhh
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST
Romans 3:23. For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.

Yes, his son is a sinner according to the Bible. My sons are sinners too, as are my daughters.

And the church-going Presbyterian claimed there is no Biblical basis for declaring homosexuality a sin.

The minister responsible for this failure needs to read the Bible and teach from it. I would consider myself a failure as a parent if my kids didn't understand the Bible better, and I'm not even a minister.

29 posted on 03/16/2014 6:06:49 PM PDT by Pollster1 ("Shall not be infringed" is unambiguous.)
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To: Oliviaforever

Absolutely ridiculous. None of you damn business one bit.


30 posted on 03/16/2014 6:10:50 PM PDT by napscoordinator ( Santorum-Bachmann 2016 for the future of the country!)
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To: max americana

One incident like that would be enough for me to leave that church for good. In my church, such a thing would be such a violation of both the Bible and the Westminster Confession of Faith which all teaching elders are required to uphold I don’t think would happen.


31 posted on 03/16/2014 6:12:00 PM PDT by ReformationFan
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

“So I challenged him on both claims. And my fellow conservatives, my fellow church members backed me.”

It’s nice when fellow Bible-believing Christians back you up in those situations. Personally speaking, I don’t know how much of a friendship I could have with a Maobama-voting democrat. Only one of my friends and his wife are democrats and we usually discuss things other than politics when we do actually spend time together and that’s not very often.


32 posted on 03/16/2014 6:16:12 PM PDT by ReformationFan
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To: fwdude

I’m guessing he’s probably in the PCUSA not PCA or OPC.


33 posted on 03/16/2014 6:24:06 PM PDT by ReformationFan
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To: Pollster1

That “minister” had to have been in the PCUSA, not the PCA or OPC where all church officers are required in their membership vows to affirm the inerrancy of the Bible.


34 posted on 03/16/2014 6:31:02 PM PDT by ReformationFan
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To: Oliviaforever
I would not expect such personal information revealed from someone selling me a tank of gas, but would expect that information revealed prior to consummating a long term business deal.

What an unimaginable intrusion. I worked in the arts for decades, and did business with many persons whose orientation, politics or religion was simply not a matter for discussion. If anyone brought such topics up, I changed the subject. If they persisted, and it was a long-term or contracted relationship, I pointed to the clause in my work contract that I had put in there that said those topics were off-limits for discussion.

35 posted on 03/16/2014 6:46:50 PM PDT by Albion Wilde (The less a man knows, the more certain he is that he knows it all.)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

It’s interesting to me that we can declare the Biblical teachings against adultery, fornication, drunkenness, lying, etc., and get few - if any - arguments and push-back from the liars, addicts, and philanderers. You might get called holier than thou or a prude. But state the sinfulness of homosexuality and you start a war. You’re a bigot, a hater. It’s all sinful behavior, yet the pressure to - not just tolerate, but accept as normal and healthy - this one behavior is incredible.


36 posted on 03/16/2014 7:04:47 PM PDT by opus86
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To: Albion Wilde

“If they persisted, and it was a long-term or contracted relationship, I pointed to the clause in my work contract that I had put in there that said those topics were off-limits for discussion.”

That’s good if they will agree to those clauses. I worked at one place where one of the managers(a female who looked, dressed and sounded like a junior high school boy) and her female “partner” were “having a baby”. There was all sorts of insidious pressure put upon us to celebrate this. My reaction was that this is work, not a social club, and was inappropriate for them to expect such behavior from people who are there to earn a paycheck and nothing else. It showed an amazing lack of proper boundaries for a work environment.


37 posted on 03/16/2014 7:09:20 PM PDT by ReformationFan
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To: ReformationFan

I had a contract drawn up with a lot of fine print. Most people don’t read fine print.


38 posted on 03/16/2014 8:20:27 PM PDT by Albion Wilde (The less a man knows, the more certain he is that he knows it all.)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

I’m a Christian woman whom the Lord delivered from living in homosexuality, and to make a long story short here since I don’t have much more time tonight, something that does trouble me is how so much of the church is in rebellion but then still condemns homosexuality. The troubling thing isn’t homosexuality being condemned, but the church (and I should add, the church in rich, free countires, that is) rationalizing disobedience to God’s Word and embracing the world. So many Christians think nothing of dressing immodestly or watching entertainment that isn’t of God, but His enemy, and the fruits of it are all around us. I happen to run into Bible-believing Christians all the time who are around my age who see nothing wrong with Michael Jackson’s music. Yet he grabbed himself as part of his performances and his albums were called “Bad” and “Dangerous.” And for all he had, he destroyed himself, and no doubt others. In the end, all he and every other “star”/”idol”/”god” is is a human being that (Cont’d)


39 posted on 03/16/2014 10:00:04 PM PDT by Faith Presses On
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To: Albion Wilde

It’s not an intrusion as our morals and our faith must be congruent with our business practices.

Suppose for example, you were a commercial landlord and an abortionist wanted to rent your building to house an abortion mill or your accountant not only advocated gay rights, but was active in a pro homosexual organization.

Would you do business with these people?


40 posted on 03/16/2014 10:10:00 PM PDT by Oliviaforever
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

will have to one day bow the knee before Jesus and confess that He is Lord. The Lord won’t be impressed by his dancing or his Grammies. What will matter is if he is saved. Our first duty to everyone else is to make sure they’ve been warned and certainly not to feed their sinfulness.

As someone who lived in the gay lifestyle, I also have to say I know more people who you might say tried it briefly in their youth or flirted with the idea than who actually stayed with it, but for those who stayed, it’s a lot like being told by a bunch of drunk people to stop drinking yourself. Popular entertainment is like gasoline to the fire of our flesh, and it’s made Sodom seem upright next to how our society has become.


41 posted on 03/16/2014 10:10:14 PM PDT by Faith Presses On
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To: bicyclerepair

“Sad that this man’s son was indoctrinated to be a homo.
Bet the kid went to pulbik skool.”


It IS sad. But you can bet that public schools hadn’t a thing to do with it.

1 Peter 5:8-11

8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: 9 whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world. 10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you. 11 To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

We must pray for these people. Because what afflicts them, comes from the SAME enemy that afflicts US, which IS Satan.

We COULD continue to scoff at these sinners, but in return we will be the one’s scoffed at by the Lord for not praying for the sinner to be delivered from the darkness they are in.


42 posted on 03/17/2014 12:17:38 AM PDT by ourworldawry
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To: Oliviaforever

The question posed was whether one would do business with someone who has a gay son, not with whether one would rent to an abortionist. Stay on point.


43 posted on 03/17/2014 9:56:22 AM PDT by Albion Wilde (The less a man knows, the more certain he is that he knows it all.)
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To: Albion Wilde

While not exactly on point, it is an extrapolation of author’s original concept that Christians should be informed of any moral pitfalls of people they meet or enter into business agreements.

With the fact being that Chris had a gay son and was himself an activist supporting objectionable issues such as gay marriage, gay adoption, gay employment protection and other assorted gay rights issues, then the writer of the article should have been immediately informed of Chris’ family issue.

What if you were to meet someone for business or personal reasons and entered into some type of relationship only to find out later that they in fact had gays in their family and advocated the gay lifestyle?


44 posted on 03/17/2014 10:22:33 AM PDT by Oliviaforever
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To: Oliviaforever

So you only do business with perfect people with perfect families? You require them to sign an affidavit to this fact?

Got it.


45 posted on 03/17/2014 4:07:34 PM PDT by workerbee (The President of the United States is DOMESTIC ENEMY #1!)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

Is there a bisexual gene too?


46 posted on 03/18/2014 9:05:58 AM PDT by onedoug
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