Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Does the Earth Abide Forever, Like the Bible Says?
March 16, 2014 | PhilipFreneau

Posted on 03/16/2014 6:46:27 PM PDT by PhilipFreneau

Does the Earth Abide Forever, Like the Bible Says?

Many Christian doctrines take the following passage literally:

"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea." (Rev 21:1 KJV)

Some even believe there will literally be no seas/oceans in the "new earth!" But there are many other verses that seem to contradict Rev 21:1, as follows:

"One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever." (Eccl 1:4 KJV)

"Bless the Lord, O my soul. O Lord my God ... Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever." (Ps 104:1, 5 KJV)

"For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited …" (Isa 45:18 KJV)

"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved." (John 3:17 KJV)

"I am the living bread which came down from heaven… which I will give for the life of the world." (John 6:51 KJV)

"And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world." (John 12:47 KJV)

"Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen." (Eph 3:21 KJV)

"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever." (Rev 11:15 KJV)


When considering all that, it does seem likely that Revelation 21:1 has been misinterpreted. Similar verses to 21:1 can be found in Isaiah:

"And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord God shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name: That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes. For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind." (Isa 65:15-19 KJV)

That context continues into the next chapter, where we find this:

"For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain. And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord. And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me …" (Isa 66:22-24 KJV)

My first question on that passage would be, "where did all those dead people come from? Isn't this supposed to be a new earth?"

Digging deeper, I find similar inconsistencies in the New Jerusalem references of the "new earth" in Revelation 21 and 22, as follows:

"And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it." (Rev 21:24 KJV)

"In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations." (Rev 22:2 KJV)

So, in the "new earth" we find nations and we find kings? Where did they come from? And some or all of the nations even require healing?

Nothing seems to fit a literal new-heaven, new-earth scenario. It seems more likely that the new heaven and new earth terms are symbolic for a major spiritual change, or something similar. Peter offers this:

"Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness." (2 Pet 3:13 KJV)

Now, if God sent his Son to save the world, what better way to save it than changing the spirituality of the inhabitants from evil to righteous?

After examining all this evidence, I have no alternative but to conclude that this earth abideth forever, like the Preacher, the Son of David, has declared in Ecclesiastes 1:4.

Philip


TOPICS: Theology
KEYWORDS: error; freneau; hyperpreterism; newearth; newheaven
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-158 next last

1 posted on 03/16/2014 6:46:27 PM PDT by PhilipFreneau
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: PhilipFreneau

Only two ways to look at it; the bible has an expiration date or the earth does (which means; kind of, the bible does). The Sun won’t wait around forever as it expands.


2 posted on 03/16/2014 6:49:32 PM PDT by Ghost of SVR4 (So many are so hopelessly dependent on the government that they will fight to protect it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: PhilipFreneau

Yeah, unless the gravitational pull of the sun eventually sucks the earth in, there’s not really much in the universe that can destroy the earth. So, I can probably give a reasonable guarantee the Earth could be around forever.

However, can I guarantee that life on Earth will be around forever?

Not so much.


3 posted on 03/16/2014 6:50:32 PM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Jonty30

Until the Death Star shows up!


4 posted on 03/16/2014 6:52:23 PM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (Pubbies = national collectivists; Dems = international collectivists; We need a second party!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: PhilipFreneau; Ghost of SVR4; Jonty30

The only significant question is “Is you name written in the Book of Life?” If it is not, then your future is inside the Eternal Lake of Fire.


5 posted on 03/16/2014 6:55:24 PM PDT by SubMareener (Save us from Quarterly Freepathons! Become a MONTHLY DONOR!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: PhilipFreneau

IIRC, He says in Revelations, “Behold, I make all things new,” not all new things. I think that means He’s going to restore the old earth as it was in beginning and will be ever after, world without end, amen.


6 posted on 03/16/2014 7:20:02 PM PDT by Hootowl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: PhilipFreneau
For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished. But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly. (2 Peter 3:5-7 ESV)

Fire next time.

7 posted on 03/16/2014 7:22:48 PM PDT by Lee N. Field ("He shall slay the dragon that is in the sea." Isaiah 27:1)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: PhilipFreneau

The Earth will purify itself thru fire. Remember God promised no floods and that Rainbow was a symbol of his promise except a certain group stole that symbol but God shall reclaim it. Any the Earth shall always be, except after the 1000 year reign of God’s kingdom here on Earth. The Earth will purify itself and will be perfect.


8 posted on 03/16/2014 7:31:26 PM PDT by Patriot Babe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: PhilipFreneau
You've got problems with your eschatology, for a text, taken out of context, is a pretext.

Rev 21:1 Then I saw "a new heaven and a new earth,”a for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.
2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.
3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.
4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’b or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
5 He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”

We can draw several things from this passage, that contradict your last vanity post regarding the millenium, and this post.

1. There will be a new heavens and a new earth
2. The old heavens and earth will pass away
3. New Jerusalem comes to earth, and God and the Lamb will dwell there, with his people, on earth
4. There will be no more death, crying, mourning or pain
5. He is making EVERYTHING new
6.The emphasis is made that "...these words are trustworthy and true".

I would not contradict these plain words.

9 posted on 03/16/2014 7:32:54 PM PDT by jimmyray
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Ghost of SVR4

>>>Only two ways to look at it; the bible has an expiration date or the earth does (which means; kind of, the bible does). The Sun won’t wait around forever as it expands.<<<

Says who, Carl Sagan? God may have something to say about that.

Philip


10 posted on 03/16/2014 7:32:55 PM PDT by PhilipFreneau
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Jonty30

>>>However, can I guarantee that life on Earth will be around forever? Not so much.<<<

If you believe Ecclesiastes 1:4, John 3:17, and Revelation 22:2, you should have every reason to believe that life will be on this planet, forever. And not just life, but human life.

Philip


11 posted on 03/16/2014 7:35:35 PM PDT by PhilipFreneau
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Hootowl

>>>IIRC, He says in Revelations, “Behold, I make all things new,” not all new things. I think that means He’s going to restore the old earth as it was in beginning and will be ever after, world without end, amen.<<<

You know, I forgot all about that verse. That is what I believe. Thanks.

“And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.” (Rev 21:5)

Philip


12 posted on 03/16/2014 7:37:29 PM PDT by PhilipFreneau
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: PhilipFreneau
Regarding Isaiah 66, we have to keep the words in context:

22 “As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the Lord, “so will your name and descendants endure.
23 From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the Lord.
24 “And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”

Verse 22 does not indicate a chronology, insisting that the events of 23 and 24 follow the new heaven and new earth of verse 22.

Rather, God is making a comparison that the endurance of Israel's name will be forever, just as the new heavens and earth will endure forever.

Note He does not say the current heavens and earth endure forever, rather, the new!

13 posted on 03/16/2014 7:38:27 PM PDT by jimmyray
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Lee N. Field
>>>Fire next time.<<<

Jesus baptized with fire:

"John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:" (Luke 3:16 KJV)

Peter explained:

"That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:" (1 Pet 1:7 KJV)

Philip

14 posted on 03/16/2014 7:41:13 PM PDT by PhilipFreneau
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: jimmyray
>>>Note He does not say the current heavens and earth endure forever, rather, the new!<<<

"One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever." (Eccl 1:4 KJV)

I see nothing about a new earth in that statement. Nor in this one:

"Bless the Lord, O my soul. O Lord my God ... Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever." (Ps 104:1, 5 KJV)

Nor this one:

"For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited …" (Isa 45:18 KJV)

Nor this one:

"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever." (Rev 11:15 KJV)

Philip

15 posted on 03/16/2014 7:46:40 PM PDT by PhilipFreneau
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: PhilipFreneau
Peter likens what will come to the Flood. And, he regards the Flood as the great dividing line in history, between "the world that then was" and "the world that now is".
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.

Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn! But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. (2 Peter 3:10-13 ESV)

It really doesn't sound like we just tick away, generation after generation, on into the future.

16 posted on 03/16/2014 7:51:44 PM PDT by Lee N. Field ("He shall slay the dragon that is in the sea." Isaiah 27:1)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Patriot Babe
>>>The Earth will purify itself thru fire. Remember God promised no floods and that Rainbow was a symbol of his promise except a certain group stole that symbol but God shall reclaim it. Any the Earth shall always be, except after the 1000 year reign of God’s kingdom here on Earth. The Earth will purify itself and will be perfect.<<<

I personally believe the 1000 year reign is over, and Satan has been loosed out of his prison. Regarding fire, I posted a response to that in #14, but I will post again for you:

Jesus baptized with fire:

"John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose:he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:" (Luke 3:16 KJV)

Peter explained:

"That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:" (1 Pet 1:7 KJV)

My implication was that the earth would be made spiritually new.

Philip

17 posted on 03/16/2014 7:54:35 PM PDT by PhilipFreneau
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: jimmyray

>>>I would not contradict these plain words.<<<

I posted line after line of “contradictionary” (if you must) scripture, even from the Revelation chapters 21 and 22! But it is only “contradictory” if one interprets the Bible the way you interpret it.

Are you implying the Bible contradicts itself? Did you read my entire post?

Philip


18 posted on 03/16/2014 8:00:03 PM PDT by PhilipFreneau
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Lee N. Field

>>>”...But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly. (2 Peter 3:5-7 ESV)”<<<

By the way, I forgot to mention that I believe Peter was referring to the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem and Israel, and of Judaism as a viable religion.

Philip


19 posted on 03/16/2014 8:02:12 PM PDT by PhilipFreneau
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: SubMareener

>>>The only significant question is “Is you name written in the Book of Life?” If it is not, then your future is inside the Eternal Lake of Fire.<<<

Amen!


20 posted on 03/16/2014 8:02:46 PM PDT by PhilipFreneau
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: PhilipFreneau
Nor this one:

How about this one.

2 Peter 3: 7 But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly. 8 But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you,[a] not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies[b] will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.[c] 11 Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, 12 waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn! 13 But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

21 posted on 03/16/2014 8:02:59 PM PDT by xone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: xone

>>>How about this one. 2 Peter 3: 7<<<

It is all imagery, xone: like one would see in a vision or a dream; or one received directly from the Holy Ghost. See my posts #14 and #17.

Philip


22 posted on 03/16/2014 8:07:53 PM PDT by PhilipFreneau
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Lee N. Field

>>>It really doesn’t sound like we just tick away, generation after generation, on into the future.<<<

You could start by explaining the statement by the Preacher, the Son of David, in Eccl 1:4. That is one hard nut to crack, for me.

Philip -:)


23 posted on 03/16/2014 8:11:15 PM PDT by PhilipFreneau
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: PhilipFreneau
One more thing, if you interpret these verses as the pre-milleniest does, there is no contradiction, to wit:

1. Current corrupted earth, ruled by the god of this age, full of wickedness
2. Reign of the beast, given power for 42 months
3. Conquer of earth by Christ, wicked trampled on (Isa 63:1-6), the Day of the LORD, mentioned numerous times throughout the OT & NT
4. Israel will bury the dead for 7 months(!), and will continually find bones after that (Isaiah 39:11-15)
5. Satan will be bound (Rev 20:1-3), and Jesus will reign on earth 1000 years(Rev 20:4-6)
6. There will be unprecedented peace on earth, and carnivorous behavior of animal will cease (Isaiah 11) It is plausible that God creates a new heavens and earth at this point (Isa 65:17-24), but populates it with unregenerate people who survived his second coming. They live in peace and prosperity under Christ, who rules them with an iron rod (Psalm 2:8-9)People will have prolonged lives during this time (Isa 65:20-24, and it will be Utopia.
7. NEVERTHELESS, when Satan is loosed after the 1000 years (Rev 20:7), unregenerate man gathers under his banner to oppose God once more
8. Satan is defeated, and cast into the Lake of Fire, forever. Every unregenerate person is killed. (Rev 20:9)
9. All mankind that was not part of the first resurrection in Rev 20:6 are raised to be judged. No sinful being remains outside of the lake of fire. (Rev 20:15)
10. Jesus makes EVERYTHING new {again?}(Rev 21:5), and there will be no more death.(Rev 21:4).
11. The redeemed live FOREVER in paradise regained, and of the increase of his government and peace, there shall be no end (Isa 9:7).

Amen!

PS: I am neither dispensationalist or pre-tribulational, but am definitely pre-millenial

24 posted on 03/16/2014 8:23:04 PM PDT by jimmyray
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: PhilipFreneau
Jesus did baptize with the fire of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, No indication Peter was speaking figuratively. My HTML is down, but here's a dead link.http://www.shepherd.to/heaven/contents/earth_destroyed.htm

Don't know their theology, but they are right about this.

25 posted on 03/16/2014 8:24:24 PM PDT by xone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: PhilipFreneau
The disciples said to Jesus: Tell us how our end will be. Jesus said: Have you have discovered the beginning, that you would you seek the end? For where the beginning is, there shall be the end.

Haunting words from the (Gnostic) Gospel of Thomas, Earth born of meteoric bombardment.

26 posted on 03/16/2014 8:33:18 PM PDT by onedoug
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Jack Hydrazine
The Dude Abides.


27 posted on 03/16/2014 8:57:54 PM PDT by Rodamala
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Patriot Babe

Not no floods, but that he would not destroy mankind again with a flood.

“except a certain group stole that symbol”

Perhaps they are nervous because they know they are wicked and worried that God will forget his promise which is why they are waving it around so much, wanting always to remind him!


28 posted on 03/16/2014 8:59:29 PM PDT by Pete from Shawnee Mission
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: PhilipFreneau
QUOTE: "You could start by explaining the statement by the Preacher, the Son of David, in Eccl 1:4."

Eccl 1:4 Generations come and generations go, but the earth remains forever.

The earth will not be completely consumed by the cleansing fire, rather, it will be laid bare, and all trace of sinful man: polution, corruption, disease, etc. will be destroyed by fire.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.

See also Isaiah 24.

I can find no verse or reference that claims God will completely annihilate the earth. The heavens, yes, but not the earth.

29 posted on 03/16/2014 9:02:25 PM PDT by jimmyray
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Pete from Shawnee Mission
QUOTE: Perhaps they are nervous because they know they are wicked and worried that God will forget his promise which is why they are waving it around so much, wanting always to remind him!

I never thought about it that way, you might have a point!

30 posted on 03/16/2014 9:06:32 PM PDT by jimmyray
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: PhilipFreneau

I take the new heaven and new earth to be literal, but beyond our comprehension. Heaven and earth are one. God wants us to live with Him and therefore is creating that place. The evil ones in Rev 22 being outside the city is interesting but since all of our knowledge of life (physics, history, chemistry) will be useless there I don’t have to spend time thinking about it. It is too far outside the box for us to even imagine and we see things through a veil. I go for peace to thinking about when Jesus rules the world. That is super nice. the new Heaven/earth is too exciting and overwhelming for me. It doesn’t calm me down. LOL


31 posted on 03/16/2014 9:07:20 PM PDT by huldah1776
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: PhilipFreneau; redleghunter
By the way, I forgot to mention that I believe Peter was referring to the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem and Israel, and of Judaism as a viable religion.

I think it is literal, and an amazing description of a type of thermonuclear event:

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, (2 Peter 3:10-11)

Which also was amazingly foretold even earlier:

And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth. (Zechariah 14:12)

Have a God night.

32 posted on 03/16/2014 9:19:58 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: jimmyray
>>>One more thing, if you interpret these verses as the pre-milleniest does, there is no contradiction, to wit:<<<

I'm not a pre-millennialist, Jimmy. I am a post-millennialist. But I do I believe most of the list you posted was fulfilled by 70 AD, when Jesus sent the Roman armies to destroy Jerusalem, Israel and Judaism (that is, the old Mosaic structure.) I will explain:

1. 1. Current corrupted earth, ruled by the god of this age, full of wickedness

That was Jerusalem, or the Rulers of Jerusalem:

"Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem. Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves: Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste. Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place. And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it. ." (Isa 28:14-18 KJV)

2. Reign of the beast, given power for 42 months

Actually, what is written is the following. First, it says the beast had power over the entire world, and he made war with the saints. Also, he really did think he was god. Second, it says he was given power to "continue" for forty and two months:

"And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations." (Rev 13:6-7 KJV)

"And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months." (Rev 13:5 KJV)

That defines Nero, the emperor of the Roman Empire, to the letter. He ruled what was considered the whole world, at that time (Luke 2:1.) His persecution of the saints (which was horrendous) lasted 3 1/2 years, or forty and two months, until he committed suicide in 68 AD. He also had Paul and Peter put to death, who some believe were the two witnesses:

"And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them." (Rev 11:7 KJV)

3. Conquer of earth by Christ, wicked trampled on (Isa 63:1-6), the Day of the LORD, mentioned numerous times throughout the OT & NT.

It all centers around the destruction of Jerusalem and Judaism in 70 AD. That prophecy began with Moses in Deuteronomy 28, in which he devoted most of the chapter.

4. Israel will bury the dead for 7 months(!), and will continually find bones after that (Isaiah 39:11-15)

Over 1.1 million were killed or starved to death inside Jerusalem. No one buried them. That was the "great feast," mentioned in the Revelation, to which all the "fowls" were invited:

"And thy carcase shall be meat unto all fowls of the air, and unto the beasts of the earth, and no man shall fray them away." (Deu 28:26 KJV)

"And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;" (Rev 19:17 KJV)

There is also this passage from Jeremiah that seems to fit; but I have not completely researched it:

"And I will make void the counsel of Judah and Jerusalem in this place; and I will cause them to fall by the sword before their enemies, and by the hands of them that seek their lives: and their carcases will I give to be meat for the fowls of the heaven, and for the beasts of the earth. And I will make this city desolate, and an hissing; every one that passeth thereby shall be astonished and hiss because of all the plagues thereof." (Jer 19:7-8 KJV)

5. Satan will be bound (Rev 20:1-3), and Jesus will reign on earth 1000 years(Rev 20:4-6)

There is no evidence that Jesus will reign on earth for 1000 years. But I believe he was reigning for "1000 years" (more like 1900 years) before Satan was loosed out of his prison. I believe Satan is free now, and has been for about a century.

6. There will be unprecedented peace on earth, and carnivorous behavior of animal will cease (Isaiah 11) It is plausible that God creates a new heavens and earth at this point (Isa 65:17-24), but populates it with unregenerate people who survived his second coming. They live in peace and prosperity under Christ, who rules them with an iron rod (Psalm 2:8-9)People will have prolonged lives during this time (Isa 65:20-24, and it will be Utopia.

I don't believe any of that interpretation. I believe Jesus' reign began, officially, exactly when he said it would, in 70 AD when he came with his holy angels:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:" (Mat 25:31)

7. NEVERTHELESS, when Satan is loosed after the 1000 years (Rev 20:7), unregenerate man gathers under his banner to oppose God once more.

As aforementioned, I believe Satan is on the loose now, and has been for a long time. Look at the mess he has made to our cultures and societies in only the past 100 years--most in the past 50 years!

8. Satan is defeated, and cast into the Lake of Fire, forever. Every unregenerate person is killed. (Rev 20:9)

I believe exactly what it says in Revelation 20. In a nutshell, Satan is defeated, and all the dead stand before Christ and are judged. Death is the last enemy destroyed.

9. All mankind that was not part of the first resurrection in Rev 20:6 are raised to be judged. No sinful being remains outside of the lake of fire. (Rev 20:15)

I believe that part, but maybe in a different context than you.

10. Jesus makes EVERYTHING new {again?}(Rev 21:5), and there will be no more death.(Rev 21:4).

I believe that life will go on as it always has, but without the destructive force of Satan. For that reason, the nations are able to heal, as stated in Revelation 22:2, which I included in the original post of this thread.

11. The redeemed live FOREVER in paradise regained, and of the increase of his government and peace, there shall be no end (Isa 9:7).

That I believe, except that Ecclesiastes 1:4 also applies.

Amen!

Back at ya!

Philip

33 posted on 03/16/2014 9:20:40 PM PDT by PhilipFreneau
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: xone

>>>Jesus did baptize with the fire of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, No indication Peter was speaking figuratively. <<<

You don’t consider this evidence:

“For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.” (John 3:17 KJV)

Philip


34 posted on 03/16/2014 9:22:23 PM PDT by PhilipFreneau
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: onedoug

>>>Haunting words from the (Gnostic) Gospel of Thomas, Earth born of meteoric bombardment.<<<

That seems familiar. I might have read it at one time, but I don’t recall. I have browsed the apocrypha from time to time.

Philip


35 posted on 03/16/2014 9:26:33 PM PDT by PhilipFreneau
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: jimmyray
>>>See also Isaiah 24.<<<

I believe Isaiah had a tendency to consider Israel, and even Jerusalem, as "the earth." Did you read on into 25?

"For thou hast made of a city an heap; of a a ruin: a palace of strangers to be no city; it shall never be built." (Isa 25:2 KJV)"

Philip

36 posted on 03/16/2014 9:34:14 PM PDT by PhilipFreneau
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: huldah1776
>>>I take the new heaven and new earth to be literal, but beyond our comprehension. <<<

I used to believe that way. But one verse (or two) always came back at me.:

"In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations." (Rev 22:2 KJV)

When I finally got around to reading the Old Testament, everything started to fall into place (and are still falling…LOL!)

>>>Heaven and earth are one. God wants us to live with Him and therefore is creating that place.<<<

I believe it is (they are) already created. Notice the present tense in the following passages:

"But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel." (Heb 12:22-24 KJV)

"Now therefore [Jews and Gentiles,] ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit." (Eph 2:19-22 KJV)

>>>The evil ones in Rev 22 being outside the city is interesting but since all of our knowledge of life (physics, history, chemistry) will be useless there I don’t have to spend time thinking about it. <<<

Yes, but we have to live with them until Satan is defeated.

>>>It is too far outside the box for us to even imagine and we see things through a veil.<<<

I agree with that.

>>>I go for peace to thinking about when Jesus rules the world.<<<

I believe he already rules, but is more of a benevolent type. He will, however intervene and destroy Satan (soon, I hope)

>>>That is super nice. the new Heaven/earth is too exciting and overwhelming for me. It doesn’t calm me down. LOL<<<

How about this earth, with all evil under the feet of the Lord? I figure that if God loves the world so much he sent his only Son to die on the cross to save it, who am I to complain about living on this earth? I, personally, like this place. I have no desire to go anywhere else. If I do, I hope it is New Jerusalem.

Philip

37 posted on 03/16/2014 9:51:04 PM PDT by PhilipFreneau
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: PhilipFreneau
Now, if God sent his Son to save the world, what better way to save it than changing the spirituality of the inhabitants from evil to righteous?

This really is one of the most clueless comments regarding God's Plan for all eternity.

God allows for the regeneration of the human spirit by His grace in this age/generation when He observes us exercising faith in Him. Those who do not have a rgenerated human spirit, do not have an 'evil spirit' in their anthropology. That is why they think of spirituality as foolishness,....they don't have it to perceive the spiritual domain.

From the Garden, man now has the knowledge of good and evil, but we have indeed died spiritually as a consequence of that action.

The first panacea used by unbelievers is to substitute good and evil for righteousness.

38 posted on 03/16/2014 9:53:24 PM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: daniel1212
>>>I think it is literal, and an amazing description of a type of thermonuclear event: . . . Which also was amazingly foretold even earlier:<<<

>>>And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth. (Zechariah 14:12)<<<

I guess I am more the optimist. I would prefer all come to repentance.

Your interpretation does not bode well for the Jews. I cannot imagine anyone with even half-a-heart being excited about fulfillment via your interpretation.

Philip

39 posted on 03/16/2014 9:58:15 PM PDT by PhilipFreneau
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: PhilipFreneau
Since you interpret items 2-7 into a preterist viewpoint, we really have little to discuss. But don't forget, the disciples asked Jesus 3 questions in Matthew 24: When will this happen (destruction of temple), what will be the sign of your coming, and of the end of the age.

1. Josephus does not mention the sun going dark or the moon turning red or any falling stars in his first hand account of the destruction of Jerusalem. (If you have not read it, I highly suggest it!)
2. Irenaeus place the authorship of Revelation well after the destruction of Jerusalem, around 95 AD
3. Regardless of Revelation's dating, you have to dismiss most of Revelation as allegorical or whatever, ignoring the plain reading of many of it's passages, like all inhabitants of the earth worshipping the beast, his calling fire down from heaven, the mark, 7 bowls and 7 trumpet, etc.
4. Rev 20 uses the phrase "1000 years" 5 times in 7 verses. That's a lot of repetition of a precise number to be cast off as non-specific or general
5. Rev 21:4 plainly states "there will be no more death...for the old order of things has passed away". Generations can't "come and go" unless someone is dying. Blatant, inescapable, fatal contradiction.
6. Zephaniah, in reference to the great Day of the LORD (1:14) states in verse 18 "In the fire of his jealousy the whole earth will be consumed, for he will make a sudden end of all who live on the earth.
7. Ecc 1:4 states "Generations come and generations go, but the earth remains forever. This does not state that generations will come and go forever, only that the earth remains forever. I would not hang a doctrine of eternal cycle of life and death on that verse!

FWIW, I have considered both "post" and "a" millenial, and find they contradict too much plain reading of scripture to be viable.

40 posted on 03/16/2014 10:02:29 PM PDT by jimmyray
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: daniel1212
>>>And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth. (Zechariah 14:12)<<<

I forgot to mention: your interpretation sounded crazy when I heard John Hagee spout it several months ago, and it still sounds crazy: even scornful.

How do you interpret the highlighted part of this verse?

"And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn." (Zec 12:10 KJV)

Philip

41 posted on 03/16/2014 10:03:43 PM PDT by PhilipFreneau
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Cvengr

>>>This really is one of the most clueless comments regarding God’s Plan for all eternity.<<<

Do you have any scripture to back up that aspersion, or just an attitude?

>>>The first panacea used by unbelievers is to substitute good and evil for righteousness.<<<

You mean, like believing an anti-Christian religion is a good religion, like John Hagee considers Talmudic Judaism?

Philip


42 posted on 03/16/2014 10:07:30 PM PDT by PhilipFreneau
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: PhilipFreneau
QUOTE: Did you read on into 25?

Did you? 25:8 states "he will swallow up death forever. The Sovereign Lord will wipe away the tears from all faces; he will remove his people’s disgrace from all the earth.

an echo of that is found in 1 Cor 15:54, and Rev 21:4.

43 posted on 03/16/2014 10:09:35 PM PDT by jimmyray
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: PhilipFreneau
QUOTE: I believe Isaiah had a tendency to consider Israel, and even Jerusalem, as "the earth." Did you read on into 25?

One would have to be very imaginative and creative to believe the references in 24 to "the earth" actually means Jerusalem. It becomes even more problematic when one reads through Postmillenial glasses verse 20:

The earth (Jerusalem?) reels like a drunkard, it sways like a hut in the wind; so heavy upon it is the guilt of its rebellion that it falls—never to rise again.

Jerusalem is a city now, and Israel still exists, I'm told.

44 posted on 03/16/2014 10:16:27 PM PDT by jimmyray
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: PhilipFreneau
Some of your verses refer to the Kingdom of God, not the earth. But let start with the one that out of context sounds the most straightforward....

"Eccl 1:4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever."

So What's the context? First, what is already known at the time this is written?

Gen 8:22 While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.

Now "while the earth remaineth" does imply to me, that the earth will not remain forever. In 9:11 God promises not to destroy the earth by flood. But He the promise is specific to the method, not a general promise not to destroy the earth. But as long as the earth remains, we're not going to have an extinction level climate change problem.

So back to the context... Well, this is Ecclesiastes. Written by Solomon. He claims in this book that all is vain (1:14), yet God claimed it was good. And he claims that which is crooked can not be made straight(1:15), though we know that's not true for all things are possible through Christ. In 3.19, he claims we are no better than the beasts, but we know this is not true either, for unlike the beasts we were made in the image of God, and given dominion over the beasts.

So maybe everything he's writing in Eccl shouldn't be taken literally. In fact, this verse, is intended to show that generations of men are like vapors in the wind to support his argument that all is vain. I don't think Solomon actually meant to claim that there would never be an end to the earth.

There are many other verses that support the traditional interpretation of a new heaven and new earth.

Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Isa 13:13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

Isa 34:4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

45 posted on 03/16/2014 10:17:04 PM PDT by DannyTN
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: jimmyray
>>>But don't forget, the disciples asked Jesus 3 questions in Matthew 24: When will this happen (destruction of temple), what will be the sign of your coming, and of the end of the age.<<<

Exactly. And Jesus said to them that all the things he told them up, until verse 34, would happen in their generation, including the sign of his coming:

"And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." (Mat 24:30-31 KJV)

What is your point? And what is the big deal about a new age? I consider the arrival of our Messiah and his the introduction of Christianity; his crucifixion and resurrection; and the dismantling of Mosaic Law and all supporting structures after 1500 years, to be a very reasonable sign that it could be the end of one age, and the ushering in of a new one. What does it take for a new age in your doctrine?

>>>1. Josephus does not mention the sun going dark or the moon turning red or any falling stars in his first hand account of the destruction of Jerusalem. (If you have not read it, I highly suggest it!)<<<

I have read it. I have a searchable copy of that and his Antiquities in my database. But before I get to Josephus, what do you think about this from Isaiah?

"Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the Lord of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger." (Isa 13:13 KJV)

I don't recall a single history book mentioning the earth being removed out of it's place when ancient Babylon was destroyed by the Medes.

Since you like Josephus, what do you think about these strange events and coincidences? For example, what do you think about the similarities in these two verses, one from Josephus and the other from the Revelation?

“The engines, that all the legions had ready prepared for them, were admirably contrived; but still more extraordinary ones belonged to the tenth legion: those that threw darts and those that threw stones were more forcible and larger than the rest, by which they not only repelled the excursions of the Jews, but drove those away that were upon the walls also. Now the stones that were cast were of the weight of a talent, and were carried two furlongs and further. The blow they gave was no way to be sustained, not only by those that stood first in the way, but by those that were beyond them for a great space.” Wars Of The Jews V.6.3

"And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great." (Revelation 16:21)

Wow! That is one remarkable coincidence! And what about this strange phenomena: armored soldiers flying around in the clouds in chariots?

“Besides these, a few days after that feast, on the one and twentieth day of the month Artemisius, [Jyar,] a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared: I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals; for, before sun-setting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armor were seen running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities.” Wars Of The Jews VI.5.3

Now that is astonishing. Tacitus wrote about it, as well:

"There had happened omens and prodigies, things which that nation so addicted to superstition, but so averse to the Gods, hold it unlawful to expiate either by vows or victims. Hosts were seen to encounter in the air, refulgent arms appeared; and, by a blaze of lightning shooting suddenly from the clouds, all the Temple was illuminated. The great gates of the Temple were of themselves in an instant thrown open, and a voice more than human heard to declare, that “the Gods were going to depart.” [The Works of Tacitus, Vol 4, Book V, The Summary]

And what about this strange events, some of which Tacitus also mentioned above?

"Thus there was a star resembling a sword, which stood over the city, and a comet, that continued a whole year." [Wars of the Jews, VI.5.3]

"Thus also before the Jews' rebellion, and before those commotions which preceded the war, when the people were come in great crowds to the feast of unleavened bread . . . at the ninth hour of the night, so great a light shone round the altar and the holy house, that it appeared to be bright day time; which lasted for half an hour. This light seemed to be a good sign to the unskillful, but was so interpreted by the sacred scribes, as to portend those events that followed immediately upon it." [Wars of the Jews, VI.5.3]

"Moreover, the eastern gate of the inner [court of the] temple, which was of brass, and vastly heavy, and had been with difficulty shut by twenty men, and rested upon a basis armed with iron, and had bolts fastened very deep into the firm floor, which was there made of one entire stone, was seen to be opened of its own accord about the sixth hour of the night. Now those that kept watch in the temple came hereupon running to the captain of the temple, and told him of it; who then came up thither, and not without great difficulty was able to shut the gate again. . . But the men of learning understood it, that the security of their holy house was dissolved of its own accord, and that the gate was opened for the advantage of their enemies. So these publicly declared that the signal foreshowed the desolation that was coming upon them." [Wars of the Jews, VI.5.3]

"Moreover, at that feast which we call Pentecost, as the priests were going by night into the inner [court of the temple,] as their custom was, to perform their sacred ministrations, they said that, in the first place, they felt a quaking, and heard a great noise, and after that they heard a sound as of a great multitude, saying, Let us remove hence." [Wars of the Jews, VI.5.3]

>>>2. Irenaeus place the authorship of Revelation well after the destruction of Jerusalem, around 95 AD<<<

We have already beaten that dead horse to death a few times over. No one really knows what he meant! We do know that he wrote a contradictory statement in almost the same "breath," if the bandwagon interpretation is accurate. Read the paragraph you are referring to, then read about the "ancient copies" of the Revelation two paragraphs earlier.

>>>3. Regardless of Revelation's dating, you have to dismiss most of Revelation as allegorical or whatever, ignoring the plain reading of many of it's passages, like all inhabitants of the earth worshipping the beast, his calling fire down from heaven, the mark, 7 bowls and 7 trumpet, etc.<<<

All of that has been explained in remarkable detail. I suggest you hold your nose and read books by those you disagree with. For example, I think C.I. Scofield was one of the most deceitful, conniving con-men of the past two centuries, surpassed only by his buddy, Samuel Untermyer (whose arrogance cost the lives of countless Jews, in my opinion;) but I keep a copy of his 1909 handy, and several of his books. Try Ken Gentry's books, "Before Jerusalem Fell" and "Beast of Revelation," for some eye-openers. Dispensationalists have what appears to me to be an unnatural hatred of his work, so he is probably right on the money, or close. I recently found them online in PDF format, free for download at:

http://preteristarchive.com/Books/pdf/1989_gentry_before-jerusalem-fell.pdf

http://entrewave.com/freebooks/docs/a_pdfs/kgbr.pdf

>>>4. Rev 20 uses the phrase "1000 years" 5 times in 7 verses. That's a lot of repetition of a precise number to be cast off as non-specific or general<<<

I have considered that. But with nothing to back it up, I will continue to keep it in mind, but not in my routine vocabulary.

>>>5. Rev 21:4 plainly states "there will be no more death...for the old order of things has passed away". Generations can't "come and go" unless someone is dying. Blatant, inescapable, fatal contradiction.<<<

Don't complain to me! I was quoting God's Word. If you have a problem with His Word, I can't help you; nor can anyone else on this earth, that I am aware of.

>>>6. Zephaniah, in reference to the great Day of the LORD (1:14) states in verse 18 "In the fire of his jealousy the whole earth will be consumed, for he will make a sudden end of all who live on the earth.<<<

The ancient Jews were much more familiar with the old testament prophecies than anyone today; and literal interpretation was not helpful to them.

>>>7. Ecc 1:4 states "Generations come and generations go, but the earth remains forever. This does not state that generations will come and go forever, only that the earth remains forever. I would not hang a doctrine of eternal cycle of life and death on that verse!<<<

What about all the other verses I quoted? Can you explain away all of them?

>>>FWIW, I have considered both "post" and "a" millenial, and find they contradict too much plain reading of scripture to be viable.<<<

I have no idea what that means.

Philip

46 posted on 03/16/2014 11:28:52 PM PDT by PhilipFreneau
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: jimmyray

>>>Did you? 25:8 states “he will swallow up death forever. The Sovereign Lord will wipe away the tears from all faces; he will remove his people’s disgrace from all the earth.<<<

Yes, I have read it. How did his apostles interpret that?

Philip


47 posted on 03/16/2014 11:35:03 PM PDT by PhilipFreneau
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: Rodamala

Damn

27 posts

These youngsters don’t know 90s culture


48 posted on 03/16/2014 11:42:45 PM PDT by wardaddy (ukraine......aint nobody gonna do nothing but talk and try to score political points)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: jimmyray
>>>One would have to be very imaginative and creative to believe the references in 24 to "the earth" actually means Jerusalem. It becomes even more problematic when one reads through Postmillenial glasses verse 20:<<<

No really. The Greek word for that is generic. It could mean almost anything relating to the earth; for example, "land," as in Genesis 11:2 and 12:1. In Gen 12:5 it points to the land of Canaan. In Gen 35:16 it represents the word "way", as in "a little way," or a little distance. In Ezekiel 29:5 it means "field."

I am really glad you brought that up. I would advise against reading too much into words like earth, world, etc., in either the old or new testaments. For example, in the new testament the Roman Empire was considered the entire world; and Jesus' prophecy that the gospel be preached in the entire world was fulfilled prior to the destruction of Jerusalem, ahead of schedule:

"For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:" (Col 1:5-6 KJV)

"If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;" (Col 1:23 KJV)

>>>Jerusalem is a city now, and Israel still exists, I'm told.<<<

Did the Lord build it?

Philip

49 posted on 03/17/2014 12:02:16 AM PDT by PhilipFreneau
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: PhilipFreneau
"Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the Lord of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger." (Isa 13:13 KJV)

QUOTE: "I don't recall a single history book mentioning the earth being removed out of it's place when ancient Babylon was destroyed by the Medes."

Maybe because that is NOT what the passage is talking about! Isaiah 13:6-13 refers to the Day of the Lord, as it says in vs 6, 9 & 13. He is going to punish the world for the sins of Babylon. See Rev 18, written well after the Medes had their day.

Also, Isaiah 13:10 "10The stars of heaven and their constellations will not show their light. The rising sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light."

sounds a lot like Matthew 24:29 29“Immediately after the distress of those days “ ‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’

I wonder why?

50 posted on 03/17/2014 12:12:21 AM PDT by jimmyray
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-158 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson